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Post by jppiper on Oct 19, 2021 22:36:08 GMT
I think it's time we have a Discussion about Dave to some he's the only one who gets Star Wars to others a Talentless Hack many of his decisions (some from George But Dave gets the blame anyway) have been Controversial such as
Bringing Darth Maul back to life (Dave said it was George's Idea)
How Anakin is portrayed in TCW compared to the PT
Killing off characters who were already dead in the old EU (Even Piell Adi Gallia)
The Portrayal of fan-favorite Quinlan Vos
Barriss Offee's turn to the Dark Side
The Portrayal of the Mandalorians
The Mortis Arc
Giving Obi-Wan a Love Interest when he already had one in the EU
Anakin fighting Dooku
Obi-Wan fighting Grievous
The Retcon of Order 66
Not killing off Ashoka
The Portrayal of Thrawn
Space Whales
Giving Anakin an Apprentice
Anakin going back to Tatooine
Maybe not as controversial but giving Jabba the Hutt a Kid
Making the Jedi look Bad
Yoda knowing they won't win the war
Ex-Chancellor Valorum being Alive
Time Travel
The Martez Sisters
Incompetent Villains
The Bad Batch
Retconning what happened to Kanan and Depa during Order 66 from the comics in TBB
Retconning stuff from The Ashoka Novel
His Obsession with Wolves (which i don't mind)
TBOBF
Basically Retconning anything from the EU
in short there's a lot to discuss and i hope this can be done in a Civil Calm Reasonable and Respectable manner Regarding Dave
May the Force be with Us All
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Post by natalie on Oct 20, 2021 1:13:20 GMT
The super Ahsoka is getting a bit annoying.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 8:32:35 GMT
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Post by Ingram on Oct 20, 2021 9:17:35 GMT
I think it's time we have a Discussion about Dave to some he's the only one who gets Star Wars to others a Talentless Hack many of his decisions have been Controversial such as Bringing Darth Maul back to life (Dave said it was George's Idea) How Anakin is portrayed in TCW compared to the PT Killing off characters who were already dead in the old EU (Even Piell Adi Gallia) The Portrayal of fan-favorite Quinlan Vos Barriss Offee's turn to the Dark Side The Portrayal of the Mandalorians The Mortis Arc Giving Obi-Wan a Love Interest when he already had one in the EU Anakin fighting Dooku Obi-Wan fighting Grievous The Retcon of Order 66 Not killing off Ashoka The Portrayal of Thrawn Space Whales Giving Anakin an Apprentice Anakin going back to Tatooine Maybe not as controversial but giving Jabba the Hutt a Kid Making the Jedi look Bad Yoda knowing they won't win the war Ex-Chancellor Valorum being Alive Time Travel The Martez Sisters Basically Retconning anything from the EU in short there's a lot to discuss and i hope this can be done in a Civil Calm Reasonable and Respectable manner Regarding Dave May the Force be with Us All
1. Fascinating paragraphical structure. Inspired.
2. Time Travel? Really? Huh.
3. I do not view TCW in continuity with Lucas' live-action saga films. I don't think Lucas does either. Such may seem like an odd reading given the fact that Lucas himself in no small part either authored or authorized the storylines of the TCW, except I don't think that matters much for simple reasons most seem reluctant or downright oblivious to consider. In other words, whatever harebrained tangents to which Filoni tethered Star Wars, at the very least I don't think they should be held against him beyond the context of the series on its own terms. Praise or criticize what he did with(in) that iteration alone, my point being.
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Post by starwarshexalogy on Oct 20, 2021 9:23:40 GMT
I´ll be fair to Filoni and say that he only sucks when Lucas isn´t around.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2021 10:04:36 GMT
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Post by Ingram on Oct 20, 2021 11:30:34 GMT
"I do not view TCW in continuity with Lucas' live-action saga films. I don't think Lucas does either."(The quoting system doesn't agree with me  ) He does, though. I can't find a quote now, but I know he said, a couple of seasons in, that he no longer viewed the series as separate from his movies. As far as he was concerned, it was all the same body of work. I remain highly skeptical that this means what many assume it means, as an absolution specifically. Lucas once said the same thing concerning the made-for-TV Ewok movies. In both cases I'd take his comments with a grain of salt; not because he's being careless or disingenuous but simply because he's being practical. It is all one body of work, yes, because why try to confuse your fandom otherwise? When and where audiences wish to enjoy it all as one shared continuity, muddying such waters with "official" distinctions in canon gains nothing, nor would it matter either way. It's just logical marketing and, even from a writing point of view, likewise logical to ballast your TCW storylines with the events of the films; to proceed with the storied universe between the two as one shared. Yet the very idea of continuity itself I would argue is hardly the summation of Star Wars.
The simple fact is that a limited set of theatrical, live-action features versus an ongoing animated television series format yields a sharp distinction in how Star Wars as a work of drama is expressed. They move at different speeds and ultimately, unavoidably play to differing sophistications. What Lucas did with the live-action saga for the most part constitutes everything he wanted to do with the live-action saga. It's a grand work of drama in and of itself, singular and complete unto itself. It remains its own expression whereas TCW takes those characters along with a number of established premises and riffs to a uniquely separate expression; one storied universe in the simplest terms (again, because why complicate things) but nonetheless two different intents of Star Wars.
I don't think it a requirement, then, that any of the TCW events be considered in order to reap the full depth and dramatic satisfaction offered by the films and thus, in turn and to reiterate my initial point, I don't think it any kind of fundamental dissonance where Filoni (or Lucas and Filoni) spun wild with the TCW narratives.
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 20, 2021 11:54:28 GMT
What Lucas did with the live-action saga for the most part constitutes everything he wanted to do with the live-action saga. It's a grand work of drama in and of itself, singular and complete unto itself. I love that. A closed yet continuous system -- like a Möbius strip. Your wording echoes something producer and confidante Rick McCallum once said (the year that Lucas ended up selling to Disney): |
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Post by jppiper on Oct 20, 2021 16:53:13 GMT
IngramI appreciate the kind words and Time Travel happened in Rebels when Ezra saved Ashoka
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 21, 2021 3:34:32 GMT
Dave is second only to George when it comes to Star Wars, but yes, the Martez sisters can go away.
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Post by Ingram on Oct 21, 2021 11:12:24 GMT
Dave is second only to George when it comes to Star Wars, but yes, the Martez sisters can go away. Not to come off fastidious, but, I would argue that John Williams is second only to Lucas when it comes to Star Wars.
Filoni can go into the third tier, sharing in equal rank with others like Ralph McQuarrie, Lawrence Kasdan, Irvin Kershner, Trisha Biggar, Richard Marquand, Doug Chiang, Ben Burtt, Marcia Lucas and maybe even J.W. Rinzler etc.
But Lucas is the author; Williams, the narrator.
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Post by jppiper on Oct 21, 2021 15:14:24 GMT
Ingramand abrams kennedy and johnson are dead last
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Post by Alexrd on Oct 21, 2021 15:24:19 GMT
many of his decisions have been Controversial such as Bringing Darth Maul back to life (Dave said it was George's Idea)How Anakin is portrayed in TCW compared to the PTKilling off characters who were already dead in the old EU (Even Piell Adi Gallia)The Portrayal of fan-favorite Quinlan VosBarriss Offee's turn to the Dark Side The Portrayal of the MandaloriansThe Mortis ArcGiving Obi-Wan a Love Interest when he already had one in the EUAnakin fighting DookuObi-Wan fighting GrievousThe Retcon of Order 66Not killing off Ashoka The Portrayal of Thrawn Space Whales Giving Anakin an ApprenticeAnakin going back to TatooineMaybe not as controversial but giving Jabba the Hutt a KidMaking the Jedi look Bad Yoda knowing they won't win the war Ex-Chancellor Valorum being Alive Time Travel The Martez Sisters Basically Retconning anything from the EU Those that I striked came from George himself. As for the rest (pre-S7 TCW related), I don't know or I'm not sure but George approved it anyway. I´ll be fair to Filoni and say that he only sucks when Lucas isn´t around. Yep, that's basically my take as well. It's a different sandbox he's playing in now too. |
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Post by jppiper on Oct 21, 2021 15:50:14 GMT
AlexrdI'm sure Filoni got blamed for those too
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 21, 2021 16:34:18 GMT
Dave is second only to George when it comes to Star Wars, but yes, the Martez sisters can go away. Not to come off fastidious, but, I would argue that John Williams is second only to Lucas when it comes to Star Wars.
Filoni can go into the third tier, sharing in equal rank with others like Ralph McQuarrie, Lawrence Kasdan, Irvin Kershner, Trisha Biggar, Richard Marquand, Doug Chiang, Ben Burtt, Marcia Lucas and maybe even J.W. Rinzler etc.
But Lucas is the author; Williams, the narrator.
Yeah, I was referring specifically to writing/directing. |
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Post by Alexrd on Oct 21, 2021 19:10:37 GMT
AlexrdI'm sure Filoni got blamed for those too Yes, he is blamed for that. But that says more about the ignorance of those who put the blame on him than himself. |
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Post by natalie on Oct 21, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
I´ll be fair to Filoni and say that he only sucks when Lucas isn´t around. So does everyone else apparently. Even games haven't been the same. If Mando is the best Disney LFL can offer then we're doomed to suffer mediocrity in the foreseeable future. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 22, 2021 19:54:37 GMT
I´ll be fair to Filoni and say that he only sucks when Lucas isn´t around. So does everyone else apparently. Even games haven't been the same. If Mando is the best Disney LFL can offer then we're doomed to suffer mediocrity in the foreseeable future. In my mind, the only thing mediocre about Mando is the fact that it leans into the space-western aspect of Star Wars, which very much limits the aesthetics of the production design. Star Wars does indeed have western aspects to it, but it has so much more. This is why I prefer Clone Wars, it has far more variety aesthetically speaking. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 22, 2021 20:31:43 GMT
Dave is second only to George when it comes to Star Wars, but yes, the Martez sisters can go away. Not to come off fastidious, but, I would argue that John Williams is second only to Lucas when it comes to Star Wars.
Filoni can go into the third tier, sharing in equal rank with others like Ralph McQuarrie, Lawrence Kasdan, Irvin Kershner, Trisha Biggar, Richard Marquand, Doug Chiang, Ben Burtt, Marcia Lucas and maybe even J.W. Rinzler etc. But Lucas is the author; Williams, the narrator. That about covers it. However, I would probably place Ben Burtt only a little below John Williams. Burtt has been there since the beginning, not only defining the sound-field of Star Wars in instrumental ways (no puns here), but basically taking on significant editorial duties on the prequels, too. And, as we know, that's the stage where the films are truly born. I also have some personal affection for Jonathan Rinzler. The guy not only put out some compelling books, but practically became Lucas' scribe or his archivist. It's also significant that these people -- Lucas, Burtt, and Rinzler -- were basically all shown the door by Disney. The Lucas conclave. Funny, for a group of people (the new regime) so keen to emphasize how Star Wars-y they were determined to make Star Wars again (Make Star Wars Great Again), they shunned/neglected three of the personalities and assets most central to the grounding of the franchise. So does everyone else apparently. Even games haven't been the same. If Mando is the best Disney LFL can offer then we're doomed to suffer mediocrity in the foreseeable future. In my mind, the only thing mediocre about Mando is the fact that it leans into the space-western aspect of Star Wars, which very much limits the aesthetics of the production design. Star Wars does indeed have western aspects to it, but it has so much more. This is why I prefer Clone Wars, it has far more variety aesthetically speaking. I get the sense it's some kind of art-table Western-themed Star Wars leavened with Clone Wars elements. Not necessarily a cash-in or a hack job, but a bastardised version with obvious fan-pandering factors: something that is well-made but a hard yank from what Lucas would probably have done. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 22, 2021 20:47:31 GMT
Well, when the cosmic stuff takes a backseat, you know it ain't Lucas.  Midi-chlorians and Mortis are peaks Star Wars for me. |
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Midi-chlorians and Mortis are peaks Star Wars for me.