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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 20, 2022 16:17:52 GMT
The phrase "conceived by the midichlorians" in Episode I hits different too. When you start with Revenge of the Sith, the whole saga becomes Tragedy of Darth Vader.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 20, 2022 17:19:46 GMT
The other thing about TPM-ROTJ is that it's the dessert of the saga. All the razzle dazzle bells and whistles podracing speederbike dance numbers, funny aliens, ewoks, hutts... You start to realize in Episode I that Jabba is really an intimidating figure and that Han is in real danger.
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Post by jppiper on May 20, 2022 17:21:27 GMT
Uh-huh. There's some good dialogue there. Although Anakin actually says, "I agree", a little after that, when Palpatine tells him: "When the Jedi learn what has transpired here, they will kill us along with all the senators." It's a creepy line because it implies that Palpatine has tremendous influence over the many senators (remember Dooku's confession to Obi-Wan in AOTC), and that, if the Jedi eradicate him, all the senators die as well -- a bit like in TROS, when Rey kills Palpatine, all the Sith followers in the stands wail and are killed along with their ONE TRUE EMPEROR. Of course, Anakin doesn't acknowledge Palpatine's statement head-on, but swerves to something less extreme: "I agree. The Jedi's next move will be against the Senate." But Palpatine already declared himself to be the Senate when Mace came to arrest him. I wonder if that line was in the original version when Anakin was already at Palpatine's side? Either way, Anakin doesn't seem to want to admit that Palpatine is now an extremist, in looks, behaviour, voice, outlook, and overall political vision. So it's like this psychological dodge Anakin makes to keep his head above the dark waters of the worst that Palpatine is plotting and asking of him. I just need to correct the two of us here: Palpatine's first line: "Because the Council did not trust you, my young apprentice, I believe you are the only Jedi with no knowledge of this plot."Palpatine's next line: "When the Jedi learn what has transpired here, they will kill us along with all the senators."Anakin's line: "I agree. The Council's next move will be against the Senate."Anakin swings it back round from "the Jedi" to "the Council". He doesn't want to acknowledge Palpatine's more extreme statement. He obviously cannot countenance the idea that the Jedi are rapacious murderers. Which is as I said before. However, it's very sneaky on Palpatine's part to switch from "the Council" to "the Jedi" -- Palpatine knows Anakin has tremendous misgivings and grievances toward the Jedi Council, but not necessarily to the Jedi as a whole. This is as you said: The film is very political in its orientation. Talk of councils vs. people/organisations. Palpatine fuels Anakin's dissatisfaction with an aspect of the Jedi hierarchy, until Anakin gets so mad on power he no longer cares to draw a distinction. Another interesting facet is the way Palpatine refers to Anakin, in the top line, as " the only Jedi with no knowledge of this plot". Yet he also refers to him as his "young apprentice" in the same line. So which is it? Is Anakin now a Sith or still a Jedi? Obviously, it's a bit of both, as symbolised earlier in the film when Anakin holds a blue and a red saber at Dooku's throat. The film constantly plays with this tension. When Anakin enters the Jedi Council chambers to do Palpatine's bidding, for instance, he evokes the silent assassin aspect of Darth Maul, but the Jedi kids obviously assume he's still Anakin Skywalker, heroic Jedi Knight. In this way, Palpatine seems to be toying with Anakin's conscience, blurring lines and stoking his conflict (shades of Snoke manipulating Kylo in TLJ), until he finally snaps on Mustafar: the caged, angry tiger now unleashed. It's also interesting that Palpatine at least gives Anakin the superficial sense of a veto. Or, at least, you get that impression because of the way Anakin responds: "I agree." On the Jedi Council, this was the one thing really denied to him. He was able to sit on the Council, but only because the Council wanted him to spy on Palpatine. By not being granted the title of Jedi Master, Anakin was technically outranked by all the other Council members. So, in a way, he is living out a childish fantasy with Palpatine. He can say he agrees like it's worth a damn. As if this is a 50-50 arrangement and his opinion carries weight. Star Wars encourages us, if we're paying attention, to examine words carefully and to look at power dynamics with a more critical eye. Also, in your new viewing order, I suspect Palpatine manipulating Amidala into turning against Chancellor Valorum carries more weight. First, the husband is manipulated (in your viewing order), and then the wife. I love that scene
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Post by eljedicolombiano on May 20, 2022 19:30:46 GMT
The best one is Chronological- as it is intended by the maker himself
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jul 23, 2022 1:49:37 GMT
No, I've come to the conclusion that 1-6 is insane. I've known this all along, but I wanted to buy into the make-believe. No more. George, you say these things to be quirky, but the first Star Wars will always be A New Hope. The originals are 70s and 80s movies. The prequels are from the turn of the century. Part of the magic of Star Wars is that each movie is supposed to look better than the last one. The trilogies were made apart and should be viewed apart, otherwise, you have to play yourself.
So my viewing order is just a plain old selected Lucas filmography.
1. THX-1138 2. American Graffiti 3. A New Hope 4. The Empire Strikes Back 5. Return of the Jedi 6. Tucker: the Man and His Dream 7. Radioland Murders 8. The Phantom Menace 9. Attack of the Clones 10. Revenge of the Sith
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Post by jppiper on Aug 7, 2022 20:25:16 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on Aug 7, 2022 22:27:52 GMT
Different viewing orders disclose different layers to the story and the ways in which it was -- and is (watching being an active process) -- being told. Moreover, you can never get back to your original innocence. Not entirely. So the order you watch the films in is something of a moot point. That said, if you were to attempt an emulation back to innocence (thematically), you should obviously watch the films in some kind of reverse order, culminating in Episode I, given the "lost paradise" quality of that movie in particular. Ultimately, a viewing order assumes a "correct" way to watch the films, but it is also predicated on the idea that it is correct or desirable to watch them as complete blocks in some kind of sequence. However, given that Star Wars I-VI is a vast discursive film text, possessing incredible density and concision, it is actually doing a kind of disservice to gobble them up and consume them in heroic mega-pill form. Imagine trying to "eat" the podrace. Better to be more like Jabba, in reality, and to take it one frog at a time. There is a lot to be said, and a lot that has never been said, for a fragmentary, piecemeal approach. It's sort of like reading a dictionary. The problem is that everyone assumes Star Wars is more like a play or a novel. Even Lucas is a little guilty of this (not so much making that assumption per se, but in positioning the films in various statements he's made as a conventional narrative with a beginning, middle, and end). The films are better thought of as interactive portals or glorious pieces of architecture with edible interstices. Gorge, but take your time. It is germane to note, I think, that films are rarely made "in order" (of scenes/story progression), and these movies are certainly no exception. It would be interesting if someone were to try and arrange the films -- crudely, of course (this could never be an exact science) -- in terms of filming order. On the original film, for instance, principal photography began in Tunisia. The opening scene on the Rebel Blockade Runner was shot/assembled much later. Imagine watching the films in that fashion, in order of what was filmed first, to the most recent pieces at the end of the marathon in ROTS. There would be a number of problems in editing the films and then consuming them this way, but it might be interesting to do one time as a janky experiment. Although, once again, this falls into the fallacy of assuming a "viewing order" of films as discrete entities is some kind of necessity; when the "dictionary"/look-up approach has barely been explored as a valid means of engaging with a given text, especially a metatext with the epic sprawl and rich contouring of the Star Wars Saga.
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Post by Somny on Aug 8, 2022 1:55:24 GMT
Your "vademecum" idea will always have my attention. The films are better thought of as interactive portals or glorious pieces of architecture with edible interstices. An episode just prior to the series finale of Rebels presented a time bridge concept (see below images) that is highly reminiscent of what you've described. If I recall correctly, access to this time bridge realm allows Ezra to view any moment from his past and the past of any Jedi. In these scenes, dialogue snippets are heard from most, if not all, of the mainline SW films. I don't think it's irrelevant how closely the 2011 SW Blu-ray menus resemble the design aesthetic seen below. Also, there's more to be said about the Force as a metaphor for filmmaking and film viewing... EDIT: Ezra can view any moment in the future as well.
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Post by Cryogenic on Aug 8, 2022 4:22:05 GMT
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Aug 8, 2022 10:46:02 GMT
Or, it's like an album with a fucked up track list that you just can't help trying to fix.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Aug 8, 2022 11:14:48 GMT
It's also a meditation on time itself. Really, if you take the OT and the PT as two separate, complete films. Watching them OT-PT is already reverse order. Coincidentally, (ha!) i just had my first heroic dose in some 5-10 years last night. I almost went through with another marathon, but opted for horrorcore rap (my other handy dandy obsession), and spooked myself out instead. Thankfully, I survived with my mind intact! But at what cost? The world may never know! But I do.*
Anyway, IF I HAD marathoned, it would have gone like this:
Day 1: American Graffiti Star Wars (yes, SW) The Empire Strikes Back
Day 2: Return of the Jedi Radioland Murders The Phantom Menace
Day 3: Attack of the Clones Revenge of the Sith THX-1138
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Post by Subtext Mining on Aug 9, 2022 2:51:43 GMT
I mean, this is my preferred viewing order sometimes.
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 9, 2022 5:21:09 GMT
I mean, this is my preferred viewing order sometimes. Great thing about this is that you can go left to right, top to bottom, zigzag, etc.
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Post by Cryogenic on Aug 10, 2022 7:43:33 GMT
Or, it's like an album with a fucked up track list that you just can't help trying to fix. I don't think it's fucked up. I think it's the opposite: It's already perfect and the mind recoils against perfection, despite craving it, so we desire to introduce pathology, break it apart, and fuck it up, to see what else might emerge.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Oct 14, 2022 1:56:39 GMT
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Nov 7, 2022 17:57:29 GMT
Your "vademecum" idea will always have my attention. The films are better thought of as interactive portals or glorious pieces of architecture with edible interstices. An episode just prior to the series finale of Rebels presented a time bridge concept (see below images) that is highly reminiscent of what you've described. If I recall correctly, access to this time bridge realm allows Ezra to view any moment from his past and the past of any Jedi. In these scenes, dialogue snippets are heard from most, if not all, of the mainline SW films. I don't think it's irrelevant how closely the 2011 SW Blu-ray menus resemble the design aesthetic seen below. Also, there's more to be said about the Force as a metaphor for filmmaking and film viewing... EDIT: Ezra can view any moment in the future as well. The 2011 Blu-ray menus are truly fascinating. They are supposed to represent a holographic projector, with scenes from the films as the holograms, but the design is very evocative, with rings within rings spinning every which way, with the scenes placed on the different rings. Like the cover of the 2011 release, which represents the parallel journeys of Anakin and Luke, the menu designs are clues to the fact that the saga is one big puzzle that can be assembled in many different ways and each time create a different picture. Lucas himself said that you get one kind of story by watching I-VI, and another by watching IV-VI, I-III. I think he called the fact that he made the trilogies out of order "interactive filmmaking" or something to that effect, so I very much subscribe to Cryo's idea that the films are "interactive portals". You get feedback from the films in the form of subtext by inputting your own creative thoughts into unraveling the connections within the saga. Each time you find something new, the experience gets richer. It's like mining for more story content.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Dec 11, 2022 15:48:53 GMT
I'm at it again, but I've stretched out my viewing to a week cycle.
Saturday, American Graffiti-A New Hope Sunday, TESB Monday, ROTJ Tuesday, Radioland Murders Wednesday, TPM Thursday, AOTC Friday, Revenge of the Sith-THX 1138
and so on. Last night's AG-ANH viewing was revealing. Both films share a similar, fast-paced, youthful tone. Clearly a pair, sharing the same writers. And of course, I've always considered ROTS and THX to be a pair. This feels like the definitive cycle to me now. I like the Disney projects, but they are clearly not made of the same stuff. They have their moments, but they don't belong in the cycle. They're extra fun, like the Ewok movies and Droid cartoons, TCW, etc.
Have I picked the right days though? Would you change anything?
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Post by jppiper on Dec 30, 2022 4:17:49 GMT
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Dec 30, 2022 7:02:12 GMT
That's pretty much the Standard Opinion. Thank you, YouTube fuckface "Thor Skywalker". So, a couple thoughts since my last viewing order. First, is that TESB and ROTJ really do feel like the end of a six-part cycle, and that TPM is very much the beginning of the story, and was clearly designed that way. Unfortunately, I just don't see any way around the fact that they're attached to the times they were made. The OT looks primitive compared to modern movies because, it is. The Special Editions don't do much to change this. The saga was also told out of order, and though they COULD be viewed in order, the fact that it was designed to tie up the loose ends and subvert our expectations, as much as it serves as a setup for the original trilogy, highlights the experimental nature of the prequels. Which brings me to my decision to add Howard the Duck to my viewing order. I'd only seen it once before, and I remembered enjoying it, but I disregarded it as more of a Marvel property than a Lucas project. But, the fact that it even came to be, and the way it turned out is 100% Lucas. If anything, it reminds me of the movie Crimewave stylistically. I'm not sure how much audiences understand how self-consciously ridiculous this movie is, or if they just don't like it. I admit, it drags a lot in the third act, but it's just so strange, I can no longer resist its charms. Also, Lea Thompson. 😍 The other movie I decided to add back in is Tucker. It might not even be his movie at all, but it feels like a Lucas project, and he's obviously proud of it, and bears responsibility for it. I decided to leave his other major story credits out, Willow and Strange Magic, for being frankly redundant in a Star Wars film cycle, and Red Tails because I don't know quite where it would belong. When I watch it again, I might change my mind. But the other difference about the Lucas projects I left out, is that they're not very experimental compared to the ones that made the list. Anyway, the viewing cycle now goes like this: MONDAY American Graffiti Star Wars: A New Hope TUESDAY Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back WEDNESDAY Star Wars: Return of the Jedi Howard the Duck THURSDAY Tucker: The Man and His Dream FRIDAY Radioland Murders Star Wars: The Phantom Menace SATURDAY Star Wars: Attack of the Clones SUNDAY Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith THX 1138
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jan 1, 2023 19:17:32 GMT
Okay, I watched Red Tails again. I'd only seen it once before, years ago. But this time, I've since seen Dam Busters and some older movies, and I see what the movie was going for. It's Lucas's only actual war movie, and it might be a bit cookie cutter, but it does what it sets out to do, and it's very likable and well-made. So I have to add it. And I had to reconsider removing More American Graffiti from my viewing orders. In a list as comprehensive as this, I can't just pretend it doesn't exist. I do love it, despite its flaws.
So at this point, this is every full length Lucasfilm except for the Indiana Jones series, Kagemusha (which isn't even listed on the Lucasfilm website), and the fairy tale type movies Twice Upon a Time, Labyrinth, Willow, and Strange Magic. At this point, there are more non-Star Wars movies in this viewing order, and I suggest using this thread to discuss how other Lucasfilm projects relate to George's Star Wars Saga.
THURSDAY American Graffiti Star Wars: A New Hope
FRIDAY More American Graffiti Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back
SATURDAY Star Wars: Return of the Jedi Howard the Duck
SUNDAY Tucker: The Man and His Dream
MONDAY Radioland Murders Star Wars: The Phantom Menace
TUESDAY Star Wars: Attack of the Clones Red Tails
WEDNESDAY Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith THX 1138
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