The Rise of Skywalker: Discussion

I agree with Pyro.

Unless you’ve gathered sufficient visual and linguistic data, commentary about the movie as if you’ve seen is a bit disingenuous. For the record, I think we need a thread to discuss the positives of the film.

We all have a universal understanding that these films will never reach the “Midiclorian” count of Lucas’s bio-mechanical sextuplet, which ironically has more humanity than any of the new films despite the themes that are presented(Kylo’s resolution of self-destruction with both Jedi and Sith, killing the past and even alluding to possible sexual abuse).

I believe, that despite the creative sludge that was spewed out of Disney(whom I’ve had beef with for many years) we should be self reflective of our own past from TFN and the fandom as a whole.

Why?

It seems that lately, prequel fans are being exploited by their dislike of Disney by ST fans. And SW fans, never changing in their character, bash the ones involved in the creation of the ST. That includes the actors, who don’t really have much in the way of multiple choice. They are stuck on a binary plane.

Let not the oppressed become the oppressors, ala Romans Vs>Germanics = Modern European Conquerers.

I say we play the game properly. Let’s make a thread discussing the positive visual literacy and writing of the ST. Both here and on TFN. If our material is superior, what’s wrong in merely discussing the good things about an inferior trilogy? Of course, this is my business side talking:P

“Corrupt”

A very strong word that I don’t find it’s use appropriate here. If you were on TFN for many of its years, you’d understand that the OT users fought against us aggressively every day since the prequel threads existence. None of the users here openly bashed the actors, director or anyone in the creative process to the extent of the OT fans did. I remember and so so many others who were on TFN longer than me.

But, it’s true, man. Both sides of SW fandom are infested with signs of corruption. The OT fans, the PT fans, the Lucas lovers, the Disney lovers, all sides of SW fandom (except The Clone Wars fandom) are corrupt.

First post on here, though I may recognize some of you


I just want to say that not liking one or more bits of Star Wars material doesn’t make us “broken fans”.
I can’t speak for anyone else, but my enjoyment for the Star Wars I fell in love with remains the same, and in some cases, increased (specifically the prequels).

I did defend TFA in the beginning, but I can thank its successors and knowledge of behind the scenes for making me realize that to me, it isn’t much to defend. If someone else has something to say in defense of it or other films, then that opinion is as valid as the opposition.

My non-constructive review of TROS:

Ugh. I hate Kylo Ren, Rey Fraudwalker is an idiot, we got no explanation for the Rebel fleet, nothing for Palpatine except lazy “this is my evil plan”, no Anakin, no explanation for the voices, Reylo is canon now, meaning that Kylo, the golden boy who Han and majorly Luke were thrown under the bus for, got his sappy ending before he died, the Skywalkers may as well not have done anything if this is the story of one man’s granddaughter who kills him. Anakin and Luke are placeholders. George Lucas’s saga is a placeholder. I’m glad it exists in a canon not created by Disney, one that will never be erased as long as we remember.

JJ Abrams clearly wanted to get from scene to scene with no development of characters or plot, most notably in act one.
“You guys knew Palpatine was coming. Here he is, moving on now.”
“Yeah, you guys knew there would be a dagger. You got it, lets roll, people.”
“Okay, let’s see, here’s a list of Rey theories from the Internet, this is a good one, let’s go with it.”


Dislike for people behind the scenes or what they’ve done isn’t the same as turning away from Star Wars.

I love Star Wars and I don’t like the sequel trilogy. If I change my mind on it at any point, then okay. But I don’t need to in order to be happy with my place as a fan.[


Merry Christmas by the way

br]

All the criticisms made so far are based on content from the movie, not erroneous information, not incomplete information. It's there. Watching the movie will only corroborate what's being criticized. Everyone here is invited to address those criticisms if they disagree with them. But to dismiss them and make ad hominem attacks (while giving us a lecture about how we are being like PT haters) is not only unnecessary, but very hypocritical.


This is a discussion thread about the movie, that includes positives and negatives. But sadly I don't see any discussion about the movie, but a discussion about people who have criticisms against the movie while being accused of whining, ignorance and disingenuousness (and the occasional Pasquali spam posts, but those are easily ignored).

If we are that ignorant and disingenuous, then addressing the criticisms we've made should be easy. But I guess ad hominem attacks are even easier.


Which prequel fans have criticized the actors? Not that there's anything wrong with criticizing actors on their performance, but from what I've seen, that's the least of most people's problems with these movies.

ArchdukeOfNaboo
Which Clone Wars Actor was it?

“Negative Opinion”

There is so much resentment floating around in the tones of Star Wars detractor arguments, in general. It’s gross. The sequels are like gravy, supplements, a bonus. The other movies are still here, they are the same. If you don’t want to apply sequel context, then don’t. It’s like whining about a billion-dollar Christmas present. Film criticism is insane.

In response to the thread:

Adherence to/honoring the PT:

Nope, JJ threw them a bone at best. Not surprised, but disappointed.
The opportunity to bring back Anakin, as was said on this page, was right there.

Anakin Skywalker: The voice was the bone thrown to the PT. But it means much less considering it was jumbled with many others (as nice as it was to hear Mace and Qui-Gon). He is the central character of Lucas’s Star Wars, and Disney has intentionally marketed this trilogy as part of the Skywalker saga.
They clearly didn’t want to deprive Rey of a heroic moment, but I can think of several ways they could have kept Rey’s role while giving Anakin a heroic return.
You know what would make such an event more meaningful in my opinion? Making Rey a birth Skywalker.

Writing/Dialogue/Humor: About standard. A mix of laugh and eye roll inducing lines.

Music: Probably my favorite aspect of the film. I enjoyed the return of old themes as well as the theme on Exogol.

Sound design: Decent enough

Art direction: Pretty good actually

Visual effects: Wasn’t impressed with Palpatine, but the scenes looked good. Particularly the lair, the planets during the lightspeed hopping scene, and Lando’s fleet.


Palpatine’s survival: Not at all adequately explained. I can think of several ways that, if they insisted on bringing him back, they could have explained it. Maybe he’s a ghost instead of a clone looking to be resurrected. I honestly expected his return immediately after seeing TLJ, given that I knew Kylo wasn’t going to work as the next film’s primary antagonist.

Palpatine’s characterization: Not deep, which was expected.
The loyalist cult wasn’t explained and was underused in my opinion.

Snoke: A little disappointing, but the blow was softened by the fact that I had stopped caring about his origin. I guess it would make sense if Palpatine was behind the First Order all along. Makes Snoke seem more like a throwaway villain in the same camp as Zam Wesell and General Grievous (inferior to both).

Leia: Footage was mostly convincing except for one scene. I noticed that her silhouette was shown in the scene where she is dying. I will admit that that scene was sad in a way, but annoying considering who she was using her life energy for.


Trio adventures: Fun action, but it was harder to care about the principals. Rey being a Palpatine is not the least of the factors, while it felt like they were trying to mimic the Han-Luke-Leia love triangle in ROTJ. The small conflicts between Rey, Finn and Poe ended up going nowhere, and their group dynamic felt wasted. Just filler, mostly. They didn’t seem to matter once Ben Swolo came “back” (we never saw any side of Kylo before except an evil, manipulative one)

Rey’s ancestry: Worst thing about the film besides the Reylo kiss. Makes it clear that the term Skywalker saga is no more than a gimmick. Rey adopting the last name means nothing. Just shows that Anakin and Luke were just placeholders. Luke doesn’t have one legacy to be proud of.


Lightsaber battles: The Endor duel was admittedly pretty cool, but again, it was hard to care about the principals involved. Anything good about it was ruined when Rey got sappy for Kylo. Why would she feel any more guilt about fatally wounding him than any other villain. That side of him is the only one she ever knew! She never knew Ben Solo as a better person and yet she cries over him and kisses him the minute she sees him for the first time.

Space battle: Cool scene, but the reinforcements were meant to imitate the Ewoks. The problem is, we never saw how Lando was able to contact so many people, just that Poe and company were supposed to have faith that they would come. Conversely, the surprise element of the Ewok attack was removed, since we kept hearing about how the reinforcements would come.

Han as a Force ghost: I don’t mind Han appearing in theory, and I will admit it served the story. But my personal bias against Kylo makes it hard to appreciate that scene. Han said the same thing in TFA and Kylo looked him cold in the eye before stabbing him.

Luke: Nothing unexpected. Efforts to salvage the character after the damage done in TLJ would probably have strayed the narrative. I can think of ways to do this, but they are cheap.


The finale: visually impressive, but I felt as though Anakin should have a role in ultimately defeating the villain who we were supposed to think he killed already, which was the climax of all of Lucas’s Star Wars. Kylo got too happy of an ending, and while a happy-ish ending for Rey was expected, it didn’t feel earned. Palpatine’s death went the way I expected.



The kiss: Unearned, and ruins any good to Rey’s character. She becomes the love-pet of a man she only met now after only being exposed to his evil alter-ego who may have pretended to show her a better side. Worse, she was all feely for him before this other side was given any hint, and after at the start of TROS, Kylo went back to the same evil BS he had always pulled.

About her dismissal of Finn, it was disheartening, but it goes to show what an inconsistent character Rey is. Not because Finn is entitled to her love, but because Kylo deserves it the least of almost anyone she’s crossed paths with.

I’m not such a fan of Padme’s story in ROTS, but it’s one flaw in an otherwise great film. There were too many in the ST to overlook. That said, Padme’s sappiness for Anakin even after he turned evil makes far more sense than Rey’s bizarre feelings for Kylo. At least there was a precedent of Padme seeing that Anakin had been a good person. At least she had known and loved the good Anakin before he fell. Rey never knew whatever “Ben Solo” we were supposed to believe existed.


Ending: Rey doesn’t deserve to be an honorary Skywalker, not after she threw away the legacy for Kylo.