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Post by Ingram on Jun 7, 2024 7:23:14 GMT
Thought about asking this question in simpler terms over in Alex's ' Before the Dark Times' thread until deciding such was more specifically a comparison discussion thread between Disney's Star Wars and the Star Wars of old under Lucas, and moreover wanted to initiate a poll separate from the one asking whether or not the franchise should continue. Let us a) safely assume that it will, and b) as a debate not get too bogged down in the minutiae as to why one era succeeds over the other or why the other is merited enough to exist on its own.
Rather, I'm polling more strictly to highlight a fix on personal, individual dispositions with today's Star Wars across the spectrum, from genuine enthusiasm to dutiful commitment to morbid, train-wreck curiosity to a Zen-like state of hanging up one's spurs. Or anywhere in between. For instance, if you are for all practical intent retired from SW as is, how do you now file it as a passion or pastime? Or alternatively are you perhaps weathering what you consider a finite (enough) storm? ...etc, etc.
I also really want to stress "foreseeable". As in, not where you think Star Wars could end up hypothetically, ideally, but the likelihood of its future given its current trajectory.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 7, 2024 7:57:39 GMT
Status pending is always the real answer. And indeed in the years between TPM and ROTS I was status pending. Then between 2005-2015 I was all in. TFA left me cold, and I went back into suspend-judgment mode. Rogue One, Solo, and TLJ brought me back. Then starting with the announcement of the title of TROS, I was skeptical again. I still have a hard time remembering its name, because it's just so generic. Then seeing it in theaters, I had a lot of initial enthusiasm. But during the 2020-2022 Lockdown my admiration for the sequel trilogy waned, and I see a lot of missed potential. I realize now (partly because the poltical hysteria of the times) I was defending movies that were pretty good and always pleasant to watch, but nowhere is it the spooky, alien, religious experience of the original six. But neither are Darth Vader slippers. Will I still buy them? Hell yeah. Especially if I need a pair and they're on sale. The Disney+ stuff has been hit or miss, but so has Batman. That's what we're dealing with now. As a casual Batfan, I wasn't fond of the Christopher Nolan Batman movies, or comic book movies in general, but I think Joker is one of the best movies of recent times, and I'm looking forward to its sequel with genuine enthusiasm. So, you never know.
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Post by Alexrd on Jun 7, 2024 10:05:35 GMT
You could say that I've always been retired from current Star Wars. I did use to discuss its problems (here and elsewhere), but nowadays I don't actively go out of my way to waste my time and energy on it. Apathy has finally settled in. I can't do anything about the evergoing vandalization, nor can I expect anything else from its owners.
The Star Wars that I like is the Star Wars that I like, so I revisit it often and dig deep into it.
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Post by Ingram on Jun 13, 2024 6:31:12 GMT
Status pending is always the real answer. And indeed in the years between TPM and ROTS I was status pending. Really? That's interesting. Did Episode I leave you shaken or do you simply mean you were banking on Star Wars finally being officially over by 2005 and thus waiting to call it a day?
Again, though, 'Status Pending' would be the ideal answer for anyone who's not feeling the franchise at present; that would be my vote were I looking at it through a certain prism. But, I'm not.
In truth, I voted 'Yes'. I can't even give a shit to be in any way disgruntled with The Acolyte. I can't even not give a shit enough to not give a shit, as I already stopped giving a shit past-tense. I won't bother critiquing the latest, new live-action Star Wars thing because I haven't left a single energon cube of curiosity. Being honest with myself to that end, then, I couldn't logically vote any other way. Someone mentions Star Wars, at least in any current context, all I hear is static. White noise. Customer service phone-line muzak.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Jun 13, 2024 6:56:59 GMT
Partially for me. I have a "take it or leave it" mentality when it comes to Disney's Star Wars. I used to deal in absolutes back when TFA came out, swearing to never consume or at least spend money on Disney's products, but I ended up seeing and liking Rogue One quite a bit, which changed my mind. Since then, Star Wars has been very hit or miss for me. There're really only a couple movies and shows I like to revisit, mainly TLJ and Obi-Wan. Andor, Ahsoka and Acolyte (the three "As," I just noticed) are unwatchable to me. I started episode one for all three and couldn't finish.
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Post by Ingram on Jun 13, 2024 7:27:06 GMT
Partially for me. I have a "take it or leave it" mentality when it comes to Disney's Star Wars. I used to deal in absolutes back when TFA came out, swearing to never consume or at least spend money on Disney's products, but I ended up seeing and liking Rogue One quite a bit, which changed my mind. Since then, Star Wars has been very hit or miss for me. There're really only a couple movies and shows I like to revisit, mainly TLJ and Obi-Wan. Andor, Ahsoka and Acolyte (the three "As," I just noticed) are unwatchable to me. I started episode one for all three and couldn't finish. I just realized... perhaps voting 'Partially' is in some way closest to The Force:
"You mean it controls your actions?"
So maybe you guys are onto something. Or maybe I'm Ben Kenobi at the start of his own Disny+ series. Ya know, having lost said fulcrum. Forceless.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 13, 2024 7:45:16 GMT
Status pending is always the real answer. And indeed in the years between TPM and ROTS I was status pending. Really? That's interesting. Did Episode I leave you shaken or do you simply mean you were banking on Star Wars finally being officially over by 2005 and thus waiting to call it a day? Well, I liked Episode I well enough, but for one it was different and I couldn't understand how it related to the story. So there was that. But I think more than that, I was entering my teenage years and Star Wars was kiddie stuff. Episode II, I saw on opening day, and rented once to watch the DVD extras. And then in college my roommate introduced me to the world of fan edits (The Phantom Edit, etc) and, I think before that I didn't even realize AOTC had its detractors. I wasn't reading the books, I wasn't discussing online with fans. I didn't even know Sidious was Palpatine the whole time. I was expecting at some point in Episode III for Palpatine to be revealed as Sidious's secret apprentice. So, I was holding out hope that it would make sense when it was all finished, but at the time I really didn't know what was going on. Also, it was during this time that my political views were taking shape. 12 year old me couldn't have understood what was going on, but 18 year old me felt Revenge of the Sith in his soul.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 18, 2024 18:16:39 GMT
Partially for me. I have a "take it or leave it" mentality when it comes to Disney's Star Wars. I used to deal in absolutes back when TFA came out, swearing to never consume or at least spend money on Disney's products, but I ended up seeing and liking Rogue One quite a bit, which changed my mind. Since then, Star Wars has been very hit or miss for me. There're really only a couple movies and shows I like to revisit, mainly TLJ and Obi-Wan. Andor, Ahsoka and Acolyte (the three "As," I just noticed) are unwatchable to me. I started episode one for all three and couldn't finish. I just realized... perhaps voting 'Partially' is in some way closest to The Force:
"You mean it controls your actions?" I've also gone with "partially"... partially (!) due to the reasoning above. You know, I think the key words to liking/appreciating Star Wars, much less loving it as we do (or used to?), are saga, trilogy, prequels, lightsaber, R2-D2, C-3PO, Empire, Republic, Skywalker, Padme, Anakin, Luke, Leia, Vader, Palpatine, Emperor, Jabba, Boba, Jedi, Sith, Dark Side, the Force, "I have a bad feeling about this", and, of course, Jar Jar. The rest is a bunch of regressive noise. Although I do like it when Finn ominously goes "It's Ren" in TROS. There's everything and nothing lurking within the names, places, concepts, themes, motifs, and structural devices of the... the... Star Wars franchise... Star Wars Saga. Because that's what it was, once upon a time: a great, big, fat, massive, hulking, make-love-to-me-daddy SAGA. Now it's a bunch of rolling trailers and streambait piffle designed to inflate interest and draw people to Disney+, all to line some shareholder's overstuffed pockets (including Big Daddy Lucas). Modern-day Star Wars might as well be taking place on YouTube. It practically is. All but the actual episodes and movies are on there. There's trailers, trailers of trailers, clips and more clips, reaction videos, review videos, conspiracy theory ravings, rants that people are done with Star Wars and Disney forever, parodies, memes, mashups, interviews, parodies of interviews, memes of interviews, mashups of interviews, fan movies, fan shorts, audio books, podcasts, tours of Star Wars attractions and videos of Star Wars events, commercials for products, reviews of products, reviews of commercials for products, reviews of reviews of products, AI-generated artwork compilation videos, mockumentaries, etc. -- you name it, it's on there (or has been on there or will be on there). Of making YouTube Star Wars content there is no end, and much watching is a weariness of the wi-fi. But, of course, there was no YouTube -- and no Internet (in its contemporary form) -- when the Original Trilogy came out. Even when the prequels burst onto the scene, the Internet was still in its relatively early phases. There were no smartphones, no Facebook, nor even YouTube until the 2004-2005 era; and what there was, back then, was fairly primitive compared to now (like the jump in wireframe graphics for the Death Star attack in ANH vs. the digital cyclorama of the PT itself). Star Wars was more of an exclusive, rare, precious thing back then; and humans tend to place more value on what is rare compared to (what is seen as) relatively commonplace, humdrum, and ordinary. This is hardly an original point I'm making, but basically, Star Wars felt less earthly and more celestial when Lucas was birthing the original six films: a marvel of the silver screen, once a hallowed and formidable realm. Back then, there was an implicit understanding between its Maker and his audience that you had to "Go Big or Go Home", and all the films were judged severely on that basis. No one was harbouring any illusion that Star Wars was anything less than a cinematic enterprise (first and foremost), even if Lucas frequently earned criticism and was not infrequently accused of having strong commercial motives, and sometimes of cheapening the medium of cinema itself. Now, ironically, when the commercial motives (on Disney's part) are more obvious than ever, they're hardly ever talked about -- but neither is Star Wars approached with quite the same reverence, nor the same grudging admiration, or even the same concern. Nobody worries about Disney tainting cinema via Star Wars per se. They might occasionally worry about the juggernaut of Disney itself, but Star Wars is now a lesser, tamed menace, being slowly digested over a thousand years within the belly of a larger beast. To put it plainly: everyone knows that Star Wars has changed. It's now all flattened and corporatised. Simplified and sanitised for a mass audience. Made by lessers: charlatans, poseurs, trolls, agitators, duct-tapers, box-tickers, and taskmasters -- a cornucopia of spivs, carnival barkers, and shrewd marketers whose inferior goods are the equivalent of empty calories. George's Saga is like Jango Fett: cool, mysterious, cognizant, dangerous. Disney's franchise is like the clone army: there's a hundred thousand of these things with a million more on the way, all able, or so we're told, to "think creatively", but with less independence than the original host, all a means to an end in some silly proxy war. I can't really overstate the higher reality of Star Wars when it was just a few films by the same guy (in essence), endlessly trashed, endlessly praised, and a handful of spinoff things that nobody took all that seriously. There used to be such an urgency, grandeur, and concentrated sublimity to the entire thing. Every moment, every scene, every gesture, every line of dialogue, every note of music, every VFX shot -- it all used to matter. Star Wars has gone from feeling palatial to provincial, cosmopolitan to Neapolitan. When resources were maximised for the big screen, the results were impressive and really spoke for themselves. They magnetised us to the story being told through the elaborate machinery of the moviemaking. And it was ridiculously wonderful. The Phantom Menace. Attack Of The Clones. Revenge Of The Sith. A New Hope. The Empire Strikes Back. Return Of The Jedi. These were the only runes that mattered, that made any sense, that enchanted us, that existed. But when people use cutesy names like "Mando", I think, "That would never have worked in the GL era. I mean, Empire-o?" Or when I hear the name "Andor", I'm given to ponder, "Is that a few short hops from Endor?" Not only is less more, but the right kind of less leads to the right kind of more. It's an odd twist of fate that there's more chatter about Star Wars online than ever, but it's the online world, with all its boorish detractors and atttention-seekers, its gossip-riden, clique-oriented, clickbait-dominated discourse that has played a major role, along with Disney's ownership, in sucking what was special right out of Star Wars -- the Internet is to blame for unweaving the rainbow, you might say. On the other hand, in the right amounts, the Internet is also responsible for the existence of fan communities like this one, and as tedious as most Star Wars discussion is, it's also where many gems and precious trinkets can be found. So, I guess, you can't really have one without the other. But somewhere along the way, things started to become, well... unbalanced. And it wasn't necessarily a bunch of boogeymen like the Sith causing the imbalance. Alas, it's people and networks and clout-chasing and vanity and money and all those nice and important things. They have inflicted a significant wound on Star Wars, and its halo of artistic merit -- its preciousness -- has diminished. Star Wars is now less of a singular cybertext. It's an all-you-can-eat buffet. Naturally, people become full and bloated, get sick, and eventually realise, "Hey, maybe I shouldn't go to this buffet anymore. Maybe I should focus on healthier eating habits instead." * * * All of which is a long drive to a short stay at the beach, in which I'm saying, or maybe trying to avoid saying, that my relationship to Star Wars isn't quite dead, but -- to coin a phrase -- "isn't what it once was". The poll option of "partially" is an evasive answer, but for the time being, the best answer I can give. For more of a potted history: The first Star Wars television series I watched was "Obi-Wan Kenobi". Then I went backwards and explored the two seasons of "The Mandalorian" that were then-presently available. Then along came "Andor", and I watched all twelve available episodes of that. Then I decided to fire up "The Book Of Boba Fett". There were time gaps between all of these things, but I think Mando was soon after Obi-Wan and Boba wasn't long after Andor (my own choosing to watch them, in that order, I mean). It was a strange "viewing order" experience, but oddly, in totality, quite satisfying. Unfortunately, it was also no more than satisfying and that's where I gave up with television content (for the time being, at least). Obi-Wan left me alternately amazed and seething. Mando (ick) was more fun to watch than Obi-Wan, but less substantial. Ando(r) brought some gravitas, but also a lot of tedium. And Boba... Well, Boba was very fun, like Mando, but since Mando half took it over, I finished it feeling, "What was the point in any of that?" -- which basically sums up my whole experience with all this Disney+ streaming content, if I'm brutally honest. Consequently, I didn't bother watching the third season of Mando, or "Ahsoka". And now there's "The Acolyte", which appears to pack more of a punch than those previous shows, and maybe some kind of "absence makes the heart grow fonder" effect is now kicking in, but I'm also like, "Eh, I'll get to it in due course." The Disney feature films also haven't done a lot for me -- although, it's fair to say, more than some fans. "Rogue One" I've just never been able to completely get into. "Solo" was more up my street, but it also only feels like half a story. However, for the sheer fun factor of the latter (and its underrated cinematography), I'd happily watch it again some time. Unlike a lot of GL fans, I sort of like the sequel movies. I mildly enjoyed TFA at the cinema, then cooled off on it after TLJ, preferring the latter more. TROS was the first Star Wars Disney film I actually loved. I still think it's a blast to watch. Over time, TROS sullied my interest in TLJ, but slightly enhanced my (mild) enjoyment of TFA. It sounds strange for me to say, but I guess I prefer JJ's take on Star Wars compared to Rian Johnson's. TROS was the first time a comic-book sensibility was put to the screen in a reasonably convincing manner since GL handed the reigns to Disney. "Solo", too, has some of that same quality. These remain my favourites. As in: literally, my favourite Star Wars Disney content, so far, hands down. I think I want to clarify here, just to round things off, that Star Wars isn't awful now. That's not a descriptor one should throw around lightly with Star Wars -- even the much-derided Holiday Special doesn't deserve a word like that. But what a wonderful smell we've discovered: "Star Wars isn't awful now". Here we are, the third rock from the sun, and that's the epitaph of our present age: Star Wars isn't awful now. And by "now", I probably mean "yet". *sigh* For me, the secret to keeping the flame alive is to treat the mythology seriously, yet lightly. If that makes any sense. It's kind of a contradiction in terms, but Lucas knew exactly what to do, and Disney is much more hit and miss. And because there doesn't seem to be any grand plan or vision at work, yet all these projects are at least entertaining, and sometimes, one appears to be a reaction to a previous one (TROS vs. TLJ, for example), you can be a little backhanded here and praise/accuse Disney of failing forwards: i.e., there is a sort of improvement from one thing to the next, but it isn't necessarily sustained, and one bit of content ends up merging with another, and in the end, the overall effect is of a stillborn mediocrity. Star Wars cut up into a thousand tiny pieces doesn't really work too well, except when prequel fanatics do it in the form of blogs and threads, because George's Star Wars is like a cinematic T-1000: no matter how much you slice it, you have a legitimate piece of something silvery and futuristic, yet living in our time, and it easily reforms back into an active, integrated whole. Yet it's also hard to see what else, exactly, at this stage, Disney or anyone else can really do to completely avoid aforesaid mediocrity. I came to the sad conclusion a while ago that Star Wars isn't Star Trek. The writing and the whole mentality at Disney/LFL doesn't seem to allow for the kind of sustained brilliance of a TNG or DS9. Seven seasons (each) totalling just shy of 180 episodes apiece? And each of those episodes, let me point out, was roughly 45 minutes long. I don't think we're ever going to see that sort of quality from the new copyright holders. Maybe Star Wars can't be told in that format. But the new people aren't even trying. That's not their sexual orientation. They're much more interested, it seems, in short-form television content: quick, forgettable, one-night stands. Which, in turn, only prompts unfortunate comparisons -- conscious and unconscious -- with what Star Wars used to be and became renowned and worshipped and adored for: a small number of shimmering, high-concept, kick-ass, action-adventure space fantasy movies, each a glorious happening unto itself. And what movies they were (and still are), and what a glorious whole they made (and still make).
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 18, 2024 18:27:15 GMT
tl;dr: Put more melancholically by the legendary Julio Iglesias...
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Post by Ingram on Jun 19, 2024 6:53:40 GMT
George's Saga is like Jango Fett: cool, mysterious, cognizant, dangerous. Disney's franchise is like the clone army: there's a hundred thousand of these things with a million more on the way, all able, or so we're told, to "think creatively", but with less independence than the original host, all a means to an end in some silly proxy war. Freaky.
Hows about, George's Saga is like Star Wars with the blast shield down: you can't see a thing ...until you can, until you can feel it, thus stepping into its larger world. Disney's franchise is like Star Wars with the blast shield up: see everything, feel nothing, trusting only your eyes to the mindless little floating remote.
For me, the secret to keeping the flame alive is to treat the mythology seriously, yet lightly. If that makes any sense. It's kind of a contradiction in terms, but Lucas knew exactly what to do, and Disney is much more hit and miss. And because there doesn't seem to be any grand plan or vision at work, yet all these projects are at least entertaining, and sometimes, one appears to be a reaction to a previous one (TROS vs. TLJ, for example), you can be a little backhanded here and praise/accuse Disney of failing forwards: i.e., there is a sort of improvement from one thing to the next, but it isn't necessarily sustained, and one bit of content ends up merging with another, and in the end, the overall effect is of a stillborn mediocrity. Star Wars cut up into a thousand tiny pieces doesn't really work too well, except when prequel fanatics do it in the form of blogs and threads, because George's Star Wars is like a cinematic T-1000: no matter how much you slice it, you have a legitimate piece of something silvery and futuristic, yet living in our time, and it easily reforms back into an active, integrated whole.
For me, the secret to keeping the flame alive is to treat the mythology seriously, yet lightly. If that makes any sense.
Huh.I sorta get your point but fail to get its point. If that makes any sense. Fundamentally, it's not really up to me -- or shouldn't be -- to keep current Star Wars alive, but rather up to whomever the producers/artists who've since assumed custodianship; you both previously detail and follow up said secret by stressing, with accuracy, how they ultimately fail in such endeavor. I like that idea of taking Lucas' established movieverse mythology to heart while at the same time affording it nimble, Jacques Tati 'Playtime-esque' latitude with future interpretations. If only Disney themselves would afford the same. For me then it all comes down to investment and return. The fragmented, fleeting pieces of Disney's Star Wars that I like are just that—fragmented and fleeting. Am I to go on gluing them together, desperately, into my own..."thing" indefinitely? It just becomes a chore. The powers that be are casting a wide net in terms of sheer content volume that, yes, on occasion pulls up little random trinkets. At the end of the day however they're simply not keeping up with any worthy standard and I therefore struggle to keep up with them. It's the mileage. So I gotta go with the total pull-out. Of course, even that absolution is inescapably relative given your slightly open-ended posit below:
Yet it's also hard to see what else, exactly, at this stage, Disney or anyone else can really do to completely avoid aforesaid mediocrity. I'm starting to consider the possibility that in a year not too distant from now they might actually sell. Crazy, I know. Perhaps "sell" is not the rightest word but more accurately to liquidate. In some odd piecemeal process might they do this while dressing it up PR-like as artistic collaboration or "synergizing". As to why they would ever do this, the mileage. Then? Who knows... Not really sure of the logic yet, just a feeling.
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Post by eljedicolombiano on Jun 30, 2024 22:20:05 GMT
I guess "Partially is where I'm at at the moment.
I'm open to enjoying a Star Wars project, be it a movie or show at some point. However, I think it remains unlikely they will make something that satisfies me for the foreseeable future, seeing how the current Lucasfilm leadership largely doesn't get Star Wars. My fandom isn't completely dead- I still have love for what George made, but feel ambivalent about the last decade or so.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 1, 2024 3:02:51 GMT
Hmm, since a new post has just been added to this thread by eljedicolombiano , I just want to clarify a few points from before: Firstly... For me, the secret to keeping the flame alive is to treat the mythology seriously, yet lightly. If that makes any sense.Huh.I sorta get your point but fail to get its point. If that makes any sense. Fundamentally, it's not really up to me -- or shouldn't be -- to keep current Star Wars alive, but rather up to whomever the producers/artists who've since assumed custodianship; you both previously detail and follow up said secret by stressing, with accuracy, how they ultimately fail in such endeavor. I wasn't referring to the viewer, but like you, to the creators. That's why I wrote: For me, the secret to keeping the flame alive is to treat the mythology seriously, yet lightly. If that makes any sense. It's kind of a contradiction in terms, but Lucas knew exactly what to do, and Disney is much more hit and miss.Sorry, Ing, but I'm very much in your court already on that point. The other stuff: I think we have to ask ourselves, whenever and wherever we may (even outloud on the bus, in front of strangers): "What is Star Wars?" Like, what is it, really, and what is our precise attraction to it? Of course, it's not really a question with a straightforward answer, but if we can ruminate on it once in a while, it might help us to see why Disney appears to be failing for so many fans right now, and more to the point, why we personally -- yes, us "prequelist" bozos, on this 'ere little website -- can't muster up much enthusiasm for a lot of it. I think, in some small way, it goes back to something Jonathan Rinzler once reported Lucas as saying: Star Wars is his "onion" (i.e., it has many layers -- and sometimes makes you cry). With Disney, not only does the onion not come from anyone in particular, but there really is no onion. It was all that layering, both silly and profound, sacred and profane, that not only gave the Star Wars Saga ( gives the Star Wars Saga) an awesome sense of fullness, but essentially makes it endlessly fascinating and stimulating to the senses: the gut is deftly wrenched, the heart is warmed, and the mind is elegantly provoked. I think you really hit the right note with your "blast shield" analogy. The Disney stuff, by comparison, is too bland, too monotonic, too literal... too linear. All flat and telegraphed. Especially the television shows. The heterogeneous texture of the movies (George's Glorious Six) has been ditched for shallow, sign-posted, sitcom-like dynamics. A painful comedown. Where's the sex, where's the spice, where's the eccentricity, where's the poetry, where's the fun? I've been trying to psych myself up to watch "The Acolyte", but I'm having difficulty convincing myself to do it. I've seen clips. I know it begins with a bland info card (a frozen, simplistic, production note-style crawl), and then a silly kung-fu fight between two Force users in yet another ripoff cantina/bar, with bad dialogue to boot. All shot digitally, with repetitive sepia tones, and low-contrast lighting. The very thought of ranking that anywhere near the Star Wars of old, or even the Sequel Trilogy and the spinoff films ("Rogue One" and "Solo"), is painful. It's more engrossing to listen to dissections, if still a form of masochism. Star Wars was a formal recitation once upon a time. It started with a fucking fanfare. It had reading. More reading. An epic, screen-eating logo. A suggestive, serious camera move that either panned up or down through a starfield. And over a thousand crisp compositions to follow. Plus scene wipes. Characters calmly pacing around or shooting at each other or swinging laser swords within striking sets and locations. Memorable, generous sound design. Incredible visual effects. Puppets. Clean, intelligent, and wholesome, mentor-like dialogue. Beautiful three-act structures. Sharply rising action and thrilling third-act conclusions. Lyrical closing montages. Compelling action. Varied, lush, and wonderfully symbolic colour palettes. Characters that were generally well-written, well-acted, and brilliantly realised. Coherent plots and sub-narratives that were masterfully woven into a grander storyline. And something undefinable that you can never quite put your finger on. In short, first-class entertainment worth destroying your life over. Now? Disney isn't commanding that level of sacrifice. No-one's being blown away by Styrofoam Cave Planet #55. The imagination, the respect, the attention to detail, the audacity to want to continually knock people's socks off -- none of that is really there. No wonder Star Wars is shit now.
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Post by Ingram on Jul 1, 2024 3:55:26 GMT
I guess "Partially is where I'm at at the moment. I'm open to enjoying a Star Wars project, be it a movie or show at some point. However, I think it remains unlikely they will make something that satisfies me for the foreseeable future, seeing how the current Lucasfilm leadership largely doesn't get Star Wars. My fandom isn't completely dead- I still have love for what George made, but feel ambivalent about the last decade or so. So then, really, you're a 'Yes—completely'. Why beat around the bush, EJC. Why hide from it. Search your feelings, you know they be true. Change your vote. Join me. Give yourself to the Dark Ingram Side. The Disney stuff, by comparison, is too bland, too monotonic, too literal... too linear. All flat and telegraphed. Especially the television shows. The heterogeneous texture of the movies (George's Glorious Six) has been ditched for shallow, sign-posted, sitcom-like dynamics. A painful comedown.
Where's the sex, where's the spice, where's the eccentricity, where's the poetry, where's the fun? I've been trying to psych myself up to watch "The Acolyte", but I'm having difficulty convincing myself to do it. I've seen clips. I know it begins with a bland info card (a frozen, simplistic, production note-style crawl), and then a silly kung-fu fight between two Force users in yet another ripoff cantina/bar, with bad dialogue to boot. All shot digitally, with repetitive sepia tones, and low-contrast lighting. The very thought of ranking that anywhere near the Star Wars of old, or even the Sequel Trilogy and the spinoff films ("Rogue One" and "Solo"), is painful. It's more engrossing to listen to dissections, if still a form of masochism.
Star Wars was a formal recitation once upon a time. It started with a fucking fanfare. It had reading. More reading. An epic, screen-eating logo. A suggestive, serious camera move that either panned up or down through a starfield. And over a thousand crisp compositions to follow. Plus scene wipes. Characters calmly pacing around or shooting at each other or swinging laser swords within striking sets and locations. Memorable, generous sound design. Incredible visual effects. Puppets. Clean, intelligent, and wholesome, mentor-like dialogue. Beautiful three-act structures. Sharply rising action and thrilling third-act conclusions. Lyrical closing montages. Compelling action. Varied, lush, and wonderfully symbolic colour palettes. Characters that were generally well-written, well-acted, and brilliantly realised. Coherent plots and sub-narratives that were masterfully woven into a grander storyline. And something undefinable that you can never quite put your finger on. In short, first-class entertainment worth destroying your life over.
Now? Disney isn't commanding that level of sacrifice. No-one's being blown away by Styrofoam Cave Planet #55. The imagination, the respect, the attention to detail, the audacity to want to continually knock people's socks off -- none of that is really there. No wonder Star Wars is shit now.
You really bum me out with this stuff, Cryo. I wish I never knew you.
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Post by jppiper on Jul 1, 2024 4:04:11 GMT
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jul 1, 2024 9:21:31 GMT
While reading that last Cryo post (generous sound design), it occurred to me that for one the melodrama is gone. Daisy Ridley cried in the sequels, but the movie never cries with her. The spinoffs? Forget it. And except for a brief few reboots of the Millenium Falcon vs Tie Fighter sequence, which frankly don't even count, none of the action in Disney Star Wars speaks for itself like the podrace, the asteroid fields, the opening sequence in Revenge of the Sith, even the rancor pit. Under Lucas, Star Wars movies knew when to pull back the plunger, find the right moment, let it launch, step back, and let the magic unfold. The couple times the sequel trilogy tried to imitate that, it came with all the hooting and hollaring of the original TIE fighter sequence "WOOHOO THIS IS FUN!" as if it was the first time anyone had ever seen a scene like that. In 1977, there was a reason to hoot and hollar. What we were seeing was incredible. It was like a video game come to life on the big screen. The young audience could identify with the enthusiasm of Luke "I got him!" Rey and Finn's artificial enthusiasm for their shoehorned cockpit scenes were pure memberberries for moms and dads trying to convince themselves that Star Wars is back, and that their kids will love it the same way they did. And the more I look to the original six for inspiration, the more I find it. There's nothing to be depressed about. Lucas had to reevaluate his priorities and let go. You can't stop the change.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 7, 2024 15:16:52 GMT
"In the name of....!!!"Hold your ice fire, Cryo. You're not helping here. I mean, excuse me, sorry, I'll try not to swear about Disney, Joe. Oh, I see what you did there.You really bum me out with this stuff, Cryo. I wish I never knew you. Ingram wishes he could just wish his feelings away... While reading that last Cryo post (generous sound design), it occurred to me that for one the melodrama is gone. Daisy Ridley cried in the sequels, but the movie never cries with her. The spinoffs? Forget it. Ooh, that's good. It kinda cries with Finn instead. REEEEEEYYYYY!!!!
(And yes, the spinoffs pretty much suck in that regard.) That's also good. Almost too good. You nailed it. No one's getting spasms of joy over that plodding rathtars sequence in TFA. Or all those Resistance bombers dying like paper tigers at the start of TLJ. Or copypasta MF vs. TIE sequences. Most of the action in the sequels has an either "been there, done that" quality about it, or it's clunky and unengaging, or it unfolds with forced timing, or it's simultaneously trying too hard and not enough, or all of the preceding. I can cite semi-exceptions, though. I dig Kylo dusting off all those mushroom men at the start of TROS, and the lengthy shoot 'em up on Takodana (Maz castle planet) in TFA is pretty slick, as well as Kylo's assault on the big escaping Resistance cruiser in TLJ, and... ack, but look, even then, I have to clumsily describe what I'm pointing to, rather than going "the podrace", or "the asteroid escape", or "the rancor pit", or "the droid factory". I think the relatively insipid action sequences in the sequels are symptomatic of a wider problem: a pervasive conceptual dryness, infecting everything from the dialogue, to the plotting, to the rehashed empire vs. rebels narrative setting, to the costumes, locations, sets, and vehicles, and even the music in places. Dullsville with a billion-dollar budget. Same. Rewatching some clips of TPM last night (for a prospective post or two on NF), I realised there's this whole other dimension that the Disney stuff -- sequels/spinoffs -- is lacking: comedy. Or not comedy per se, but a sense of nuance, eccentricity, and random inventiveness, leading to comical weirdness and inner delight. Everyone, for example, has tried imitating Yoda at least once in their miserable life, as well as taking off Jabba's voice, and the Emperor's, and Vader's, and whether they admit it or not, I'm sure they've had a bash at imitating Nute Gunray, Watto, and Jar Jar, too. "Sure! Abssssolootely!" But I guarantee you, no-one is busting at the seams to emulate Maz Kanata, Rose Tico, or Lady Ballgown. There's nothing there to really parody or riff on. The Disney stuff, for the most part, has an oppressively cultivated sense of blandness about it. One reason I like TROS more than the other films is that Threepio actually gets to be Threepio for once. My brain finally got reminded I was watching Star Wars with gay robots and all that other mincing jazz. And those funny parts were also more poignant than usual -- like they used to be under Lucas -- because they were juxtaposed within a slightly larger plot where something actually seemed to be at stake for once. That, of course, being the other thing that Lucas Star Wars excels at: big contrasts, strong tonal shifts, whimsy and profundity in equal measure. It's like wandering into a vast library with almost every imaginable book lurking somewhere within. Sadly, the Disney TV shows are a true indication of what the franchise has turned into and been reduced to under this bean-counting corporation: cheap, monoplanar, inconsequential, cookie-cutter, disposable crap (that usually looks like it cost all of $5 per episode to make).
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