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Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 14, 2021 16:01:00 GMT
The Kenobi novel is quite good, and explores those questions adequately.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 14, 2021 16:52:10 GMT
The Kenobi novel is quite good, and explores those questions adequately.
If it's not on the silver screen, or the small screen, then it never happened - fanboys since the invention of the blockbuster
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Post by jppiper on Nov 14, 2021 17:27:22 GMT
ArchdukeOfNabooObi-Wan found out in The (Sadly Now Non-Canon) Book Dark Lord : The Rise of Darth Vader
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Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 14, 2021 17:28:06 GMT
Haha, I had this in mind from A Clockwork Orange (which is in itself an adaptation of a novel):
"The colours of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen."
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 14, 2021 23:52:51 GMT
Cryogenic I'm getting annoyed with the complaint about Vader saying Obi-Wan once thought as you do in ROTJ not being mentioned or seen in ROTS (Luke's Come With Me Line)The Duel in ANH is the rematch from ROTS Lucas said so in the Audio Commentary and why didn't he mention Mustafar in ANH? Because Lucas hadn't come up with the name yet but some people ("Cough" Alessio "Cough) Think Otherwise Oh, you mean that these complainers are implying that Obi-Wan didn't try to save Anakin as Luke did in ROTJ? That's one for an interesting conversation. I think you can argue in both way - yes he did try to turn back Anakin, but he also made it clear to Padmé on Coruscant that he was going to knock him out, as events had accelerated and there was really no other choice, for the Republic's sake. I'm sure we have a thread elsewhere where we dive deep into this. If I recall correctly, Cryogenic and myself believe Obi-Wan didn't do enough, whilst Alex is certain he did all he could. Again, my interpretation of that line is that Anakin is thinking about it in terms of his final conversation with Padme, which ends with Obi-Wan abruptly appearing at the base of Padme's ship (well, actually, he's at the top of the exit ramp, standing above his wayward apprentice: Obi-Wan starts and ends their confrontation on Mustafar with "the higher ground"). In ROTJ, he expresses anguish for what happened, but it's also an opaque sort of anguish, since it's left to the viewer to infer what he means, and Luke would presumably have no clue ("I have no memory of my mother"). By that time in his life, Anakin has had plenty of chance to reflect, and has maybe tried to rationalise what happened: i.e., that Obi-Wan was hoping to appeal to Anakin compassionately through Padme (rather than Padme bringing Obi-Wan there to kill him, as he accuses her of at the time). After all, how many instances of decoys, doubles, spies, representatives, apprentices, etc., are there in the PT? Anakin sees it as a mendacious act at the time, but perhaps looks upon it more benevolently after seeing an echo of Padme in Luke. The promise of this series, for me, lies in exploring these gaps, and through that exploration, both fleshing out the universe of Star Wars a bit more, but more importantly: redefining and deepening the character of Obi-Wan. Anakin's story has already been told pretty thoroughly in the six films ("The Tragedy Of Darth Vader"), while Obi-Wan has always been more of a supporting character. I've just never gelled with Obi-Wan as much as some people in the fanbase. He experiences tragic loss with the death of Qui-Gon, and losing Anakin to the Dark Side is obviously a shattering event, but I've just never really seen Obi-Wan battling anything internally (the final act of ROTS aside). This series could change all that and finally give the character -- "from my point of view", anyway -- some much-needed depth. We'll see. The Kenobi novel is quite good, and explores those questions adequately.
If it's not on the silver screen, or the small screen, then it never happened - fanboys since the invention of the blockbuster Exactly! Moving pictures or it didn't happen.  Or to put it another way: Haha, I had this in mind from A Clockwork Orange (which is in itself an adaptation of a novel): "The colours of the real world only seem really real when you viddy them on the screen." Seems apt to quote Stanley Kubrick here as well: "The screen is a magic medium. It has such power that it can retain interest as it conveys emotions and moods that no other art form can hope to tackle." |
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Post by Ingram on Nov 15, 2021 0:06:23 GMT
The Kenobi novel is quite good, and explores those questions adequately.
If it's not on Lucas' silver screen then it never happened
- Me, honestly. |
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Post by Ingram on Nov 15, 2021 0:14:24 GMT
As for speculation, however, will SOMEBODY please fly the T-16 Skyhopper on this show?! That's all I ask.
If a T-16 is featured, in action, I'll hereby revoke all prior chagrins I've since expressed about the series, Baby Yoda, the ST, all things Disney-Star-Wars.
I will pledge myself to Disney/Lucasfilm. I will do whatever they ask. Just show me a Skyhopper. I can't live without one.
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 15, 2021 0:22:52 GMT
As for speculation, however, will SOMEBODEY please fly the T-16 Skyhopper on this show?! That's all I ask. If a T-16 is featured, in action, I'll hereby revoke all prior chagrins I've since expressed about the series, Baby Yoda, the ST, all things Disney-Star-Wars. I will pledge myself to Disney/Lucasfilm. I will do whatever they ask. Just show me a Skyhopper. I can't live without one. To fly a T-16 Skyhopper is a power only one has achieved, but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 15, 2021 1:07:08 GMT
If a T-16 is featured, in action, I'll hereby revoke all prior chagrins I've since expressed about the series
T-16? What is this, a Russian tank? Does Ingram have a fetish for old Russian military tech?
*does online search*
Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 15, 2021 1:14:31 GMT
If a T-16 is featured, in action, I'll hereby revoke all prior chagrins I've since expressed about the series T-16? What is this, a Russian tank? Does Ingram have a fetish for old Russian military tech?
*does online search* Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
It actually flies at the end of ROTJ! It's a nice bit of symbolism for how Luke has liberated the galaxy by becoming a Jedi and making good on his idle daydreaming. But yeah, it would be good to see it some more, I guess? Or how about Disney leave one OT thing alone, for once? |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 15, 2021 20:08:52 GMT
Oh, you mean that these complainers are implying that Obi-Wan didn't try to save Anakin as Luke did in ROTJ? That's one for an interesting conversation. I think you can argue in both way - yes he did try to turn back Anakin, but he also made it clear to Padmé on Coruscant that he was going to knock him out, as events had accelerated and there was really no other choice, for the Republic's sake. I'm sure we have a thread elsewhere where we dive deep into this. If I recall correctly, Cryogenic and myself believe Obi-Wan didn't do enough, whilst Alex is certain he did all he could. Again, my interpretation of that line is that Anakin is thinking about it in terms of his final conversation with Padme, which ends with Obi-Wan abruptly appearing at the base of Padme's ship (well, actually, he's at the top of the exit ramp, standing above his wayward apprentice: Obi-Wan starts and ends their confrontation on Mustafar with "the higher ground"). In ROTJ, he expresses anguish for what happened, but it's also an opaque sort of anguish, since it's left to the viewer to infer what he means, and Luke would presumably have no clue ("I have no memory of my mother"). By that time in his life, Anakin has had plenty of chance to reflect, and has maybe tried to rationalise what happened: i.e., that Obi-Wan was hoping to appeal to Anakin compassionately through Padme (rather than Padme bringing Obi-Wan there to kill him, as he accuses her of at the time). After all, how many instances of decoys, doubles, spies, representatives, apprentices, etc., are there in the PT? Anakin sees it as a mendacious act at the time, but perhaps looks upon it more benevolently after seeing an echo of Padme in Luke.
Interesting thoughts. We gotta get back to those in depth ROTS discussions!
Well, I'm glad you're happy to reserve judgment until it releases anyway. Moreover, I know that you won't be looking over your shoulder before making your deliberation. I get the sense that there is plenty of people who will be assessing this series not on how they felt watching it, but on how their enemies or allies in the fandom felt about it. I think we've had one commenter already on this thread insinuate that the very notion of this show is pissing on the prequels. There's no evidence of this as of now, let's be careful.
I'm a huge prequelist, it still pains me to read jabs at the PT, like at Christensen's Force Ghost in ROTJ here recently, but we don't want to become fanatics either. Recall that Anakin's adherence to the Galactic Republic became so zealous in ROTS, that he was incapable of realising any of its democratic decay. Our attachments are potential menaces - they can destroy us.
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 16, 2021 1:06:57 GMT
Again, my interpretation of that line is that Anakin is thinking about it in terms of his final conversation with Padme, which ends with Obi-Wan abruptly appearing at the base of Padme's ship (well, actually, he's at the top of the exit ramp, standing above his wayward apprentice: Obi-Wan starts and ends their confrontation on Mustafar with "the higher ground"). In ROTJ, he expresses anguish for what happened, but it's also an opaque sort of anguish, since it's left to the viewer to infer what he means, and Luke would presumably have no clue ("I have no memory of my mother"). By that time in his life, Anakin has had plenty of chance to reflect, and has maybe tried to rationalise what happened: i.e., that Obi-Wan was hoping to appeal to Anakin compassionately through Padme (rather than Padme bringing Obi-Wan there to kill him, as he accuses her of at the time). After all, how many instances of decoys, doubles, spies, representatives, apprentices, etc., are there in the PT? Anakin sees it as a mendacious act at the time, but perhaps looks upon it more benevolently after seeing an echo of Padme in Luke. Interesting thoughts. We gotta get back to those in depth ROTS discussions! Thanks. Lucas' Saga is the gift that keeps on giving. I love how Jonathan Rinzler once relayed that Lucas confided in him (in as many words): "Star Wars is my onion." www.starwars.com/news/star-wars-and-historySo there you go.
I can't think of anything more lame than looking over one's shoulder to see what opinion one ought to hold. I try and stick to my own opinions. Of course, it is difficult not to be influenced by others (perhaps impossible), but that doesn't mean you just stop thinking (and feeling) for yourself.
Nice. Exactly. As you know, I see merit in the Sequel Trilogy where many other fans do not. I'm always willing to give something a chance and even change my opinions in time. Not much from Disney is grabbing me, but I'm genuinely intrigued by this series and I'm happy to suspend judgement for now.
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Post by Gen on Nov 17, 2021 13:31:12 GMT
I say no because they will likely just damage the characters and muddle the lore. Frankly, I'm not exited about the Kenobi series, or that HC will be in it, I'm more like "please don't". This, only with a certain amendment. Muddling the lore would be unsurprising but even more likely to downright inevitable would be an attempt to muddle the aesthetic form. One could feel the writers/directors/producers just itching like crack addicts to finally do Anakin & Padme romance "right" ...grounded, realistic, naturalistic, contemporary, method. Bleh. It's a safe bet that the series as is will already suffer as much from the same mindset.
The whole thing just gives me an icky feeling, the drones of Disney/Lucasfilm sticking their fingers into the pies of the live-action PT era—the last of the untouched wilderness of Lucas' Star Wars. Yeah, no. Sorry. I'm not feeling this Obi-Wan series at all.
Personally I'm hyped to see what Hayden and Ewan are capable of with actual good writing and a good actor's director! |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 17, 2021 16:20:08 GMT
This, only with a certain amendment. Muddling the lore would be unsurprising but even more likely to downright inevitable would be an attempt to muddle the aesthetic form. One could feel the writers/directors/producers just itching like crack addicts to finally do Anakin & Padme romance "right" ...grounded, realistic, naturalistic, contemporary, method. Bleh. It's a safe bet that the series as is will already suffer as much from the same mindset.
The whole thing just gives me an icky feeling, the drones of Disney/Lucasfilm sticking their fingers into the pies of the live-action PT era—the last of the untouched wilderness of Lucas' Star Wars. Yeah, no. Sorry. I'm not feeling this Obi-Wan series at all.
Personally I'm hyped to see what Hayden and Ewan are capable of with actual good writing and a good actor's director!
Say, what? Are you sure you're not in the wrong forum? You're engaging in "fixism" here, something we've been recently mocking...
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Post by Gen on Nov 18, 2021 0:52:40 GMT
Personally I'm hyped to see what Hayden and Ewan are capable of with actual good writing and a good actor's director!
Say, what? Are you sure you're not in the wrong forum? You're engaging in "fixism" here, something we've been recently mocking...
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 19, 2021 0:52:39 GMT
I hate to be no-fun, but we do try to keep discussion more serious on the main boards. Lots of other places here for humour though.
Welcome to the forum anyway, Jendy  |
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 19, 2021 2:20:21 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 19, 2021 4:12:40 GMT
C'mon.... I was hardly the first on that thread. I was joining in more than anything. Just trying to keep this one on the straight and narrow. We don't need sarcastic attempts at prequel bashing out of the blue.
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 19, 2021 4:56:43 GMT
C'mon.... I was hardly the first on that thread. I was joining in more than anything. Right -- you were joining in. And also, by using that as your defence, you're passing the blame onto somebody else. I was actually trying to have a serious discussion before then. Maybe you didn't notice. Also, many pages before you "joined in", you said you were actually done with the whole thread, interestingly enough: naberriefields.freeforums.net/post/1338/threadAnd you made that proclamation right after issuing a bevy of shitposts about TROS. But now you don't want to see any sarcasm or teasing in a discussion (about a project that obviously interests you right now)? That's a total double standard. Moreover: It's a message board. It's not life or death. We don't want an anodyne environment, bereft of mirth or mood-lifting laughs. That's not what it was, though. Search your feelings.It was obviously more of a pointed attack at the prospect of Disney "improving" the prequels by pandering of one sort or another. It was a little dig at the new project's expense, but largely (or so it seemed to me) a defence of the prequels -- that is, however this show goes about things, the prequels are fine as they are and don't require "fixing". Which seems like a perfectly fine sentiment that any prequel fan would be onboard with. |
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Post by Gen on Nov 19, 2021 9:57:46 GMT
Teehee. I've still got it.
But for real, the Hayden/Ewan/George triple threat is untouchable. Anakin is my favorite fictional character of all time.
I'd be happy if the show was faithful, respectful, nuanced and original, but I will be tuning in expecting Obi Wan and Anakin "in name only". OWAINO
Just got a feeling that they're gonna water down the movies so as to pacify geek media/Disney bosses. And that it'll be seen as an improvement.
God forbid if it touches on Netflix Cowboy Bebop territory. Sanitized quippy fanservicey bullshit. But even that was a shift in medium, and actors... This is gonna be Hayden and Ewan, Tatooine and sand, caught on digicam with a movie-like runtime. Could end up being very uncanny valley. Like touring a Star Wars wax museum.
Surprise me! I want it to be good man!!
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