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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 14, 2021 12:24:03 GMT
Edit: Cryogenic I will pm you. No need to carry this on any further in public.
Thanks, Mike. I think we're definitely straying off topic here with debates about Lucas, or what one thought of Palpatine in the sequels, or possible Taika Waitit films, or Darth Maul theories for ST. We have loads of other threads for all of this folks, no need for it here.
Let's please keep this focused on only the Obi-Wan show
Certainly. But that exchange was almost four weeks ago and clearly reached an end. Might you have any new thoughts to share, Arch Duke? |
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Post by jppiper on Jul 19, 2021 1:01:22 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 19, 2021 19:37:48 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 12, 2021 15:38:37 GMT
I'd like to conduct a poll with regards our forum members: Would you like to see a Anakin-Padmé scene in this Kenobi show? Yes or no. If no, do you think they could work it in another show? I'm conflicted. On the one hand, I'm always looking to find some way of rekindling the PT magic, on the other hand I realise that doing a dream or vision sequence isn't so straightforward. Bringing in a romantic element may well sabotage the show if not handled correctly.
Would it add or would it subtract from the mission of this series? Do you think Natalie Portman would be up for such a role? Or has the time past?
Please refer to your own ideas and analysis, not leaked information.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 12, 2021 16:15:37 GMT
I say no because they will likely just damage the characters and muddle the lore. Frankly, I'm not exited about the Kenobi series, or that HC will be in it, I'm more like "please don't".
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jtn90
Ambassador
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Post by jtn90 on Nov 12, 2021 18:15:38 GMT
I would like they add the deleted Anakin-Padmé to make it htem somewhat canon, and to annoy prequel haters.
Obi Wan is my favourite Star Wars character, that being said, I have been always aginst the idea of this series/movie, and it extends to other prequel characters, We don't wven know yet what is the main plot,I can't imagine any scenerraio in that time period, the rematch stuff is worrying, people said that it was not specifically said what was the last time they met, but it is clear that George intention was it to be Mustafar, other said that it would fix a "plot hole" when Vader said in episode VI htat Obi Wan thought the same as Luke, . I interpreted that Obi Wan let Padme talk to Anakin because she was the only one he could listen, and then Obi Wan was telling Anakin that what he was doing was bad, so Obi Wan tried to convince Anakin.
I just hope that in the promotion, Ewan stop complaining about shooting the prequels, and say something nice about them for a change. It seems loved seeing Hayden again, that's a good start.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 12, 2021 18:48:53 GMT
Subtext Mining That's a shame, though I can't exactly blame you given the way Lucasfilm have operated under Kennedy.
I guess you're also pissed off by the whole "it'll fix the prequels" mentality you find in a lot of those big geek sites and reviewers. Fixism, shall we call it? I personally don't think any fixing is necessary, but I have always been fascinated by Vader's life post Episode III, and how he kept going.
You're underlining the importance of the George Lucas era board anyway, and keeping Disney material away from it, as much as possible.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 12, 2021 18:59:48 GMT
jtn90 Interesting angle. Adding any Padmé scene into the Kenobi series would likely annoy a lot of those PT bashers who just hated the character, or frowned upon her actions in ROTS.
It would also annoy those people who get off on Vader murder sprees, and all the carnage and blood it involves. You know, the people who complain that Episode III should have been all about "hunting down the Jedi". There's a lot of people who crave orgies of violence, and so a romantic scene might put a sock in their mouth.
A romantic vision involving the two characters is a curious prospect. It enables exploration, and yet it doesn't mean reviving a dead character either.
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Post by Ingram on Nov 12, 2021 20:33:05 GMT
I say no because they will likely just damage the characters and muddle the lore. Frankly, I'm not exited about the Kenobi series, or that HC will be in it, I'm more like "please don't". This, only with a certain amendment. Muddling the lore would be unsurprising but even more likely to downright inevitable would be an attempt to muddle the aesthetic form. One could feel the writers/directors/producers just itching like crack addicts to finally do Anakin & Padme romance "right" ...grounded, realistic, naturalistic, contemporary, method. Bleh. It's a safe bet that the series as is will already suffer as much from the same mindset.
The whole thing just gives me an icky feeling, the drones of Disney/Lucasfilm sticking their fingers into the pies of the live-action PT era—the last of the untouched wilderness of Lucas' Star Wars. Yeah, no. Sorry. I'm not feeling this Obi-Wan series at all.
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Post by jppiper on Nov 12, 2021 21:12:31 GMT
jtn90 Interesting angle. Adding any Padmé scene into the Kenobi series would likely annoy a lot of those PT bashers who just hated the character, or frowned upon her actions in ROTS.
It would also annoy those people who get off on Vader murder sprees, and all the carnage and blood it involves. You know, the people who complain that Episode III should have been all about "hunting down the Jedi". There's a lot of people who crave orgies of violence, and so a romantic scene might put a sock in their mouth.
A romantic vision involving the two characters is a curious prospect. It enables exploration, and yet it doesn't mean reviving a dead character either.
I Think Fans who want Star Wars to be Bloody and Gory are Blood-Thirsty Psychopaths and Hayden and Natalie are Both 40 can they still play Anakin and Padme as 20 Somethings? |
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Post by smittysgelato on Nov 12, 2021 21:24:24 GMT
I'm kinda jonesin' to see someone in the media try to bait Hayden into dissing the Prequels but have him politely decline to go there. Like, just dodge the question and compliment both the show and the Prequels. Just zero negativity. I feel like he is my only hope in that regard.  |
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Post by emperorferus on Nov 12, 2021 21:46:51 GMT
jtn90 Interesting angle. Adding any Padmé scene into the Kenobi series would likely annoy a lot of those PT bashers who just hated the character, or frowned upon her actions in ROTS.
It would also annoy those people who get off on Vader murder sprees, and all the carnage and blood it involves. You know, the people who complain that Episode III should have been all about "hunting down the Jedi". There's a lot of people who crave orgies of violence, and so a romantic scene might put a sock in their mouth.
A romantic vision involving the two characters is a curious prospect. It enables exploration, and yet it doesn't mean reviving a dead character either.
I Think Fans who want Star Wars to be Bloody and Gory are Blood-Thirsty Psychopaths and Hayden and Natalie are Both 40 can they still play Anakin and Padme as 20 Somethings? To be fair, it is now possible to de-age an actor significantly (Captain Marvel for example), but I think they both look maybe 10 years older since ROTS. The one scenario where I can picture Padme being added (save for newly filmed flashbacks) is in a hallucination to a guilt-ridden Vader or Obi-Wan. In that case, I don't think it matters how old Natalie looks, and it might make since for her to look how Padme would have if she'd been alive in 10 BBY. In Hayden's case, if he's not de-aged or otherwise passing as younger in a Clone Wars era flashback, I could see him either being a vision, or being physically seen as Vader's bald, burned unmasked self. There's plenty of scenarios I'm not thinking of, but from what I've seen, Natalie isn't quite as Star Wars enthusiastic as Hayden and Ewan have been (I don't know what she actually thinks about it). However, I don't think it's a smart idea to exclude actors or characters based on what the bashers have said, but Disney does have a track record of exactly that. I think it would be amazing to see Anakin and/or Padme again. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 12, 2021 21:49:49 GMT
jtn90 Interesting angle. Adding any Padmé scene into the Kenobi series would likely annoy a lot of those PT bashers who just hated the character, or frowned upon her actions in ROTS.
It would also annoy those people who get off on Vader murder sprees, and all the carnage and blood it involves. You know, the people who complain that Episode III should have been all about "hunting down the Jedi". There's a lot of people who crave orgies of violence, and so a romantic scene might put a sock in their mouth.
A romantic vision involving the two characters is a curious prospect. It enables exploration, and yet it doesn't mean reviving a dead character either.
I Think Fans who want Star Wars to be Bloody and Gory are Blood-Thirsty Psychopaths and Hayden and Natalie are Both 40 can they still play Anakin and Padme as 20 Somethings?
Hayden's aged pretty well, I think he could certainly give it a go. He was looking rather scrawny in the conventions pre-pandemic (recall the reunion with the youngling from ROTS), so he'll definitely have to hit the gym to have any hope of doing Vader properly.
Ewan and Natalie also seem to keep themselves in good physical shape, as many in the acting profession do, especially when you're a major star.
Ingram you seem really cynical on this project, but again as with Subtext, I can understand given the way the Sequel Trilogy just burned so many fans. You probably haven't been following things like The Mandalorian either I'm assuming, which is fine, as I've been ignoring much of their side projects stuff too. They seem to have a show coming for just about every character now, which smells like a version of inflation for fiction, no?
I continue to feel very different on this. Out of character for me, suuuuure.  |
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Post by Ingram on Nov 13, 2021 4:18:10 GMT
Ingram you seem really cynical on this project, but again as with Subtext, I can understand given the way the Sequel Trilogy just burned so many fans. You probably haven't been following things like The Mandalorian either I'm assuming, which is fine, as I've been ignoring much of their side projects stuff too. They seem to have a show coming for just about every character now, which smells like a version of inflation for fiction, no? I made it through both seasons of The Mandalorian. It was alright. It was also kinda neutral territory for me, given the show's focus on but an avatar of Boba/Jango Fett villains. Then the Ashoka chick from TCW shows up, to which I as indifferent, before finishing with a Luke Skywalker cameo finale, which I thought was fun in a lite, trivial sense. Baby Yoda was a little too Pixar for my tastes, however. If the series in question turns out to be on par...*shrugs* |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 13, 2021 7:05:36 GMT
AD, Not so much pissed off, just exhausted. And "fixism" could be one way to describe it. I'm thinking along the lines of vindicating anti-PT POVs, or even vindicating more microcosmic things like anti POVs towards a character or a trait of theirs, or a story element (i.e. Midichlorians). You know, indulging complaints - complaints that miss what Lucas was going for. Or, definitely, giving the masses what they want instead of what they and the story need. (Do we really need this story?) I wonder how many people who said Lucas only made the PT to make money are the same people who love all this disney stuff. And yes, I know myths and tales of old were always evolving and people would try new twists to see what worked, but I don't know what worries me most; disney pandering to the masses or the masses seeming preference for the things that don't work. They certainly don't seem to like dilemmas. I suppose that's human nature, but it's a fact of life we need to start embracing. Especially with what's going on right now. I guess time will tell. Also yes, I second what Ingram said about turning SW into realistic, contemporary and method acting productions, blech! One of the great things about Star Wars was that it was so different from everything else, it dared to not fit in and conform to the mold, even at the risk of backlash. That's art. That's balls. That's how you shake things up. But hey, have your shows... |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 13, 2021 13:51:31 GMT
We still haven't even seen a trailer, let alone the series, so I think we should be careful about launching any pre-emptive strike on this series. As I warned Alexrd before TROS came out, we have to restrain our cynicism until release date, and give it all the opportunity to showcase itself and its strengths. Even if it turns out to be a crock of sh*t, it is an important principle.
Moving forward here, I hope we can cut down on the commentary on the studio (we have another thread for that), and focus on ideas that might work, as much as those that wouldn't.
Ultimately this is a project undertaken by The Walt Disney Company, so I'll do my very best to ensure references to the show do not leak into our primary GL era threads (eg Anakin's defining characteristic). Stamp them out with an iron first, so I will.
At the same time, a lot of prequel fans are exciting about Ewan and Hayden returning, so please do not spin a narrative about this being purely about appeasing OT fanboys and their issues with Lucas. That is not fair.
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 14, 2021 2:09:02 GMT
At the same time, a lot of prequel fans are exciting about Ewan and Hayden returning, so please do not spin a narrative about this being purely about appeasing OT fanboys and their issues with Lucas. That is not fair.
The two aren't mutually exclusive, though. Prequel fans can be placated or led astray with such carrots (as I think is obvious from the hype surrounding this new series), while OT fanboys can also be pandered to in the usual ways (Obi-Wan, stormtroopers, Empire, frontier element, etc.). That said, I get your point that it's maybe a rather cynical way of looking at it. Anyway, as you are clearly aware from having commented below, some new artwork from the series has been released: naboonews.com/2021/11/11/star-wars-obi-wan-kenobi-behind-the-scenes-video-released/#comment-4152Looks pretty dang good! The art department at Lucasfilm is clearly stocked with talented people. Of course, as I said on Naboo News just now, the ST movies also had a lot of captivating artwork done for them, but the end result wasn't quite so eye-watering. But it would be silly to throw this series under the bus before seeing how it actually turns out. I really love that "Blade Runner" planet. C'mon, some interesting locales this time, please! |
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Post by jppiper on Nov 14, 2021 3:59:05 GMT
Cryogenic I'm getting annoyed with the complaint about Vader saying Obi-Wan once thought as you do in ROTJ not being mentioned or seen in ROTS (Luke's Come With Me Line)The Duel in ANH is the rematch from ROTS Lucas said so in the Audio Commentary and why didn't he mention Mustafar in ANH? Because Lucas hadn't come up with the name yet but some people ("Cough" Alessio "Cough) Think Otherwise
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 14, 2021 4:12:48 GMT
Cryogenic I'm getting annoyed with the complaint about Vader saying Obi-Wan once thought as you do in ROTJ not being mentioned or seen in ROTS (Luke's Come With Me Line)The Duel in ANH is the rematch from ROTS Lucas said so in the Audio Commentary and why didn't he mention Mustafar in ANH? Because Lucas hadn't come up with the name yet but some people ("Cough" Alessio "Cough) Think Otherwise Well, we have to give this series the chance to explore new territory and bring new context to that line. However, it's also fine as it is in ROTJ, since it most obviously refers to Obi-Wan using Padme as bait to convince Anakin to turn away from the Dark Side in ROTS. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 14, 2021 14:17:13 GMT
Cryogenic I'm getting annoyed with the complaint about Vader saying Obi-Wan once thought as you do in ROTJ not being mentioned or seen in ROTS (Luke's Come With Me Line)The Duel in ANH is the rematch from ROTS Lucas said so in the Audio Commentary and why didn't he mention Mustafar in ANH? Because Lucas hadn't come up with the name yet but some people ("Cough" Alessio "Cough) Think Otherwise
Oh, you mean that these complainers are implying that Obi-Wan didn't try to save Anakin as Luke did in ROTJ? That's one for an interesting conversation. I think you can argue in both way - yes he did try to turn back Anakin, but he also made it clear to Padmé on Coruscant that he was going to knock him out, as events had accelerated and there was really no other choice, for the Republic's sake. I'm sure we have a thread elsewhere where we dive deep into this.
If I recall correctly, Cryogenic and myself believe Obi-Wan didn't do enough, whilst Alex is certain he did all he could.
I don't subscribe to the notion that Obi-Wan stayed entirely hidden for two decades, putting all his hope in one child. There's bound to have been some little reservation, what with Anakin not turning out to be what he was forecasted to be by the Jedi Council, at that point in time at least. How could he be certain Luke would save the galaxy? It was his plan A, I'll give you that, but I'm sure he would still keep in contact with Bail Organa and a few others who weren't buying Palpatine's takeover. It is implied in Episode IV anyway when Leia speaks about Obi-Wan in relation to her adopted father.
How did Obi-Wan find out Anakin had survived? How did he know he was prancing around in a big dark robot suit? When he learns these things, how does he react? Does he think Anakin's course of actions can be reversed, or has he lost complete faith in him, as we later witness in his Force Ghost conversations with Luke.
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