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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 29, 2023 15:16:34 GMT
Ahsoka, the character, was created to appeal to girls. It makes sense that her show would feature more women. Plus, that sorta seems to be the direction the franchise is going for, and has been since 2008.
I think Ahsoka in TCW appealed to everyone. If she was annoying at the start, it was because she demonstrated some of the more childish aspects of a teenager.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Aug 29, 2023 16:18:04 GMT
She was annoying for that reason, but my point was that she was supposed to appeal to girls, specifically. Female fandom was being emphasized for the first time, for whatever reason. The Her Universe clothing line was launched in 2009 by Ahsoka voice actress. Then by the third season, Katie Lucas was writing the Nightsisters episodes and deepening the character of Assaj Ventress. It certainly appealed to boys broadly, and really only appeals to certain kinds girls. I don't really think this series will be much different. There's nothing in it so far, that I can recognize, even particularly specific to the female experience. Just a scifi action show with a cast that happens not not have a lot of dudes in leading roles. Sabine has a cat. I guess that's vaguely suggestive of either spinster or motherly qualities. Though, as some online have pointed out, the cat seems to have been abandoned... I hope not. Poor kitty.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 29, 2023 16:59:29 GMT
When I was very young, honestly, there was no shortage of animated shows lead by not one but a range of female characters: Powerpuff Girl and Totally Spies being the first two that roll off the top of my head. The Clones Wars from 2008 did zinch for female characters compared to what these did. Indeed, TCW, all the way through, was mostly male characters, regardless of the nightsisters. What we see in Ahsoka is different.
What is jarring is this sudden change, the philosophy of getting rid of all your male characters and replacing them with an all-female cast. If you're fanbase is primarily male, you're obviously going into run into some disgruntled fans. The message from the person running Lucasfilm is clear: we don't care about legacy fans, we're going out on a limb to attract new audiences, however small they may be, integrity of the fandom be damned.
Tyrone Magnus summed it up well here 
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Aug 29, 2023 17:22:37 GMT
But for Star Wars, the change to an emphasis on "female" characters (or, as is often the case, characters who happen to be played by women), has been incremental. It wasn't sudden at all.
I don't understand why it bothers anyone, really. And I *hate* women.
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 29, 2023 21:49:20 GMT
I was friends with 2 girls in high school who loved the OT and the PT despite the fact they were not centered on female characters (I never heard them raise this as a complaint at all. They just expressed their love for the whole shebang). So, I never understood the mentality of: "This character must be the same gender as the audience in order for it to be relevant and appealing to them."
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 29, 2023 22:02:41 GMT
I don't watch every single Star Wars. For example, I had no interest in subscribing to Disney Plus when Andor came out, nor did I go to see Solo in the cinema. From what I've seen in the past, this feels very sudden. And I'm not a fan of it. I ask for some balance and I only get an agenda instead.
I presume you're referring to female characters which express very masculine traits here? I'm not a huge fan of that either, particularly not in real life, where it's blatantly unattractive and even repulsive. Hera, the green character, has annoying girlboss written all over her.
May I ask stampidhd280pro why you hate women? Did you have a bad divorce or something like that? Do you not think your own mother is an outstanding woman? My gripe here is the masculinisation of women, which is a trend being pushed more broadly in pop culture, and just getting more and more cringe. There are of course plenty of amazing women in the real world, it's important not to generalise.
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 30, 2023 0:15:15 GMT
While watching Rebels I never thought of Hera as a girl boss, she seemed to be more of the "no-nonsense mom" type. (She was the mother of the Ghost Crew, after all, while Kanan was the dad. Zeb, Ezra. and Sabine were the kids).
I bet we could find people on Twitter who think of her as a girlboss tho, hahaha.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 30, 2023 1:25:17 GMT
My prediction for 3rd episode: Ahsoka stares across at Sabine for another 30 minutes, and gradually takes a liking to her, with a romantic overture. Hera also fancies one of them, and a love triangle ensues.
/s
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Aug 30, 2023 2:34:51 GMT
I don't watch every single Star Wars. For example, I had no interest in subscribing to Disney Plus when Andor came out, nor did I go to see Solo in the cinema. From what I've seen in the past, this feels very sudden. And I'm not a fan of it. I ask for some balance and I only get an agenda instead.
I presume you're referring to female characters which express very masculine traits here? I'm not a huge fan of that either, particularly not in real life, where it's blatantly unattractive and even repulsive. Hera, the green character, has annoying girlboss written all over her.
May I ask stampidhd280pro why you hate women? Did you have a bad divorce or something like that? Do you not think your own mother is an outstanding woman? My gripe here is the masculinisation of women, which is a trend being pushed more broadly in pop culture, and just getting more and more cringe. There are of course plenty of amazing women in the real world, it's important not to generalise.
I don't really hate women any more than men. That's just one of my jokes. "I thought the Ghostbusters reboot was okay. And I *hate* women." |
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 30, 2023 2:49:53 GMT
People probably won't like episode 3 simply due to the fact there isn't much plot progression in this one. I suspected that would be the case. That being said, this was still an entertaining piece of bite-sized Star Wars.
Shit my mom says while watching Ahsoka: "Ahsoka has "no-bullshit" eyes. She sees everything."
xD
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 30, 2023 18:01:17 GMT
Oh my word am I liking the writing and direction of the 3rd episode. This is exactly how it should have been in Episode VII: the restored Republic is represented, there is no fear of PT-esque politics, there is a genuine mystery and there is no obsession with redoing the OT. There is no cringe dialogue like in TLJ either.
I know I've pissed on this show a bit so far, but it is winning in so many departments. It's just missing in its lead characters, the lack of the Skywalkers or some similar hefty presence.
I may have to walk back some of my criticism of Hera. The comeback to the Senator, which boils down to skin in the game, was brilliant. This is precisely the kind of commentary on past events I was looking for in the Sequels, which I was heavily bemoaning.
Ahsoka may be very stoic, indeed she wouldn't look out of place on the Jedi Council now, but it's interesting to ponder how she got there. A genuine criticism is that there a fair few things which have happened that we need to be informed about.
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 30, 2023 18:44:17 GMT
One thing that really strikes me: I want to rewatch these episodes already. That didn't happen with the Obi-Wan series. It is also interesting that Filoni has made it impossible to accuse Sabine of being a Mary Sue. By making her the Padawan with the least potential that Huyang has ever seen, anyone who accuses her of Mary Sueing is going to have egg on their face. It also puts Sabine in a very interesting underdog scenario.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 31, 2023 2:24:41 GMT
I think it caught us all off-guard. Correct me if I'm wrong, but we never speculated on the possibility since the creation of this thread.
And yet it's so obvious. What else would Ahsoka be doing?! You can't really complain about that storyline.
Sabine and that villain lady still aren't doing it for me, there is not a lot of charisma to either of them. I really love how this show is made, stoic Ahsoka is great, the composer is Williamsesque, but I'm terribly frustrated that Ray Stephens character presence seems to diminish each episode, while Anakin (hinted in the trailer) hasn't got a wink.
I see a lot of potential in David Filoni, he's even my pick for the inevitable Episode X. But please, don't forget the male characters, this isn't suppose to be Barbie.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 31, 2023 3:13:38 GMT
Stoic Ahsoka does, however, raise a dilemma: how do you possibly get Anakin to instruct such a zen-like character? It doesn't seem like she's in need of teaching or advice of any kind, from anyone. She's in a completely different state of mind to the frail Obi-Wan in Kenobi or the curmudgeon Luke in TLJ. Yes, she has an unorthodox background having left the Jedi Order, but then they were abolished with the rise of Palpatine anyway, so it's not like she's actively avoiding them these days.
Ahsoksa is skilled, stable and remarkably composed. Anakin never got anywhere near this level of discipline, and so I find it really difficult to imagine how he would be a guidance to her.
Unless Ahsoka is challenged at some point? But there's Sabine to help out there.
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 31, 2023 3:29:27 GMT
She might be tempted to ditch Sabine again when things get tough. Then she will have to deal with her Anakin history. That is probably where the learning will come in.
And we shouldn't forget that Anakin made the biggest comeback of all time from the greatest mistakes any Jedi has ever made. That makes him rather remarkable. So he might have something worth teaching, indeed.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 31, 2023 3:47:32 GMT
She might be tempted to ditch Sabine again when things get tough. Then she will have to deal with her Anakin history. That is probably where the learning will come in.
I'm a hardcore Anakin fan, I think he's the most complex character in the mythology, but I'd be straight up lying to you if I told you he could offer guidance to Ahsoka. The way the show has been going, there doesn't seem to be any need for him whatsoever. In fact, it may well end up awkward and forced to insert him, which is the very last thing I'd want. If he's going to play a part, it'll have to be warranted and natural.
I'm curious to learn out how things are going to unravel for Ahoska. She's been keeping her cool awfully well so far, has barely broken a sweat. I'm excited for episode four, especially if that witch character can get killed off, who projects no menace at all.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 31, 2023 4:09:14 GMT
And we shouldn't forget that Anakin made the biggest comeback of all time from the greatest mistakes any Jedi has ever made. That makes him rather remarkable. So he might have something worth teaching, indeed.
He did. And now Filoni has carte blanche to write him post-Episode VI. What an opportunity! The ST entirely ignored him.
But how does one write him? Now that's a position I don't envy Filoni of. It's a topic I myself ponder from time to time, never 100% of what he'd say or how he'd appear. Should he be like the character in ROTS? Should he be anything like the Vader of the OT? I would argue no to both of those. How do you portray a Force Ghost of somebody who spent 23 years as the right-hand man of the Emperor, before redeeming himself? These are not straightforward questions. It's like figuring out how Luke should be in the ST or Anakin in TPM. These are characters people have been heavily invested in.
We just had little glimpses of Anakin in Kenobi. A full-on psychopath in the rematch against Obi-Wan, which was fitting, but again it was through a cracked mask, it wasn't substantial. We had a flashback sequence, that was longer, but it was a training duel, it was more casual day-to-day Jedi stuff, it was Episode II-era. We haven't reached the "meat and potatoes" yet.
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 31, 2023 4:54:50 GMT
Filoni has said he still gets notes from Lucas. One can only hope he asked for some tips on Force Ghost Anakin from The Maker himself!
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 31, 2023 15:03:45 GMT
Filoni has said he still gets notes from Lucas. One can only hope he asked for some tips on Force Ghost Anakin from The Maker himself!
Where did you find out that? How recent?
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 31, 2023 19:18:33 GMT
Filoni has said he still gets notes from Lucas. One can only hope he asked for some tips on Force Ghost Anakin from The Maker himself!
Where did you find out that? How recent?
I think I read it more recently in an article or saw it in a video that was promoting Ahsoka leading up to the premiere but now all of that stuff seems to be buried by the latest reaction videos, reviews, and new episode previews so I can't find it. There is this older article from when Dave was promoting the final season of Clone Wars in early 2020: www.indiewire.com/features/general/star-wars-the-clone-wars-dave-filoni-interview-1202212493/“We still talk and if I’m stuck I will bug George for ideas, because he is the canon,” Filoni said. Maybe the more recent article was just recycling this quote? But...I don't think so because I specifically remember the wording being that he gets notes from Lucas. |
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