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Post by Cryogenic on Apr 14, 2024 0:27:15 GMT
I like the little detail of Shmi saying, "I'm not gonna tell you again!" to Anakin. It's a nice snippet of real life, and shows Anakin isn't a weirdly perfect angel. And she doesn't. That's the last time she tells Anakin to listen to her and go to bed. Not saying that I missed it until now, but what Natalie's (right) eyebrows do in this moment is what really sells it for me. In George Lucas movies you never know whether this was acting from Natalie or tinkering with CGI, but I feel like this little touch made Padmé's confession feel real and authentic. The acting here has always appeared rather subtle -- so subtle, in fact, that it flew right over bashers' heads (no surprise there, though, really). Yes! Which goes with when Padmé reveals to Ani she loves him, he’s so genuinely surprised his scalp moves. You can see Hayden's hair shift back. Must be hard to pull that off on command. Which I'm sure is real. What? His hair? "Don't be so sure, my young Jedi." I can do that with my scalp. We can probably all do things that Hayden can do, but we lack Hayden's Hayden-ness, and that's our downfall. Yes! Which goes with Which I'm sure is real. Oh yeah, this is classic Hayden - and good chemistry, for that matter! I believe Hayden and Natalie were somewhat close during the production of Episode II, but for reasons unknown, a rift developed between them and they were no longer so flirty or keen on being in each other's company when Episode III rolled around.
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Post by Cryogenic on Apr 14, 2024 0:37:27 GMT
I think I just noticed for the first time that Jar Jar cleans sand out of his ear when he walks in from the storm, and even the corner of his mouth goes back and curls up like a dog's when it scratches itself. Everyone's got sand in their ears: - "What?! What did you say?!" - "He never listens! He doesn't understand!" - "This war represents a failure to listen." At least Jar Jar is scrubbing the sand out of his ears. I think I just noticed for the first time that Jar Jar cleans sand out of his ear when he walks in from the storm, and even the corner of his mouth goes back and curls up like a dog's when it scratches itself. ah, i've been noticing that for a long time. Probably since 2009 or maybe before. But it's one of those things that you might not notice at first It's noticeably unnoticeable. A connection trace. Recently I made the conscious connection of the little TF kid droids running across the screen, from right to left. And the little kids running from left to right on Tatooine. Gooooood. I also like the resonance of seedy/mysterious male figures, in cloaks/robes, huddled with one another, discussing this esoteric thing or that, while the children idly pass by. There's so much visual poetry in these movies, and so many sneaky storytelling devices, that it's all just like sand in Jar Jar's ears. More grains, winding in more directions, than you can possibly ever hope to perceive or account for. It's like a heap of language, all pulverised, collecting everywhere, getting in everything.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Apr 22, 2024 19:14:44 GMT
You might not notice it unless you see clips side by side, but in TPM, the lights in the Senate are white, or light blue depending on the transfer. But in AotC, they have a sickly green tint to them, on every transfer. (Transfers that I've seen).
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Post by Subtext Mining on Apr 27, 2024 0:30:01 GMT
Another recent conscious connection of Shmi putting her right hand on Anakin's cheek. And Hayden even rubs his cheek on her hand like Jake did.
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Post by Somny on Apr 28, 2024 2:17:52 GMT
Since forever... Jango's retractable gauntlet blades! I love how unusually shaped they are and how the sound effect that accompanies their sudden appearance perfectly matches their aesthetic oddness. Feels like a typical Lucas play with a perfect assist from Burtt!
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Post by Subtext Mining on May 5, 2024 21:38:24 GMT
Recently I made the conscious connection of the little TF kid droids running across the screen, from right to left. And the little kids running from left to right on Tatooine. while seeing it in the theater, I also noticed during the introductory pan into the Sacred Place, we see some Gungan kids running through the screen.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 5, 2024 23:21:02 GMT
I remember seeing the gungan children for the first time. Must have been my 10,000th viewing.
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Post by Subtext Mining on May 6, 2024 19:52:59 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure I've noticed them before, but forgot. Most of these recent posts have been more about noticing repeating motifs I probably hadn't consciously connected before. Another thing I noticed at the theater: I've seen for some time now, that there's a clip that gets reused, of the alien fans in the podracing arena. But I only noticed it being reused 2 or 3 times. However, the other day, while being able to see it on the big screen, I lost count after the 6th time. The most distinctive attribute is the snouted alien guy enthusiastically pumping his fist. Every time it cuts to this shot, it's the same footage of the crowd on repeat. It's like Padmé pushing the same button in her ship in AotC, or Boussh saying the same two words every sentence.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 6, 2024 19:54:51 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure I've noticed them before, but forgot. Most of these recent posts have been more about noticing repeating motifs I probably hadn't consciously connected before. Another thing I noticed at the theater: I've seen for some time now, that there's a clip that gets reused, of the alien fans in the podracing arena. But I only noticed it being reused 2 or 3 times. However, the other day, while being able to see it on the big screen, I lost count after the 6th time. The most distinctive attribute is the snouted alien guy enthusiastically pumping his fist. I don't want to see this. I am deleting this memory.
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Post by Somny on May 7, 2024 1:26:38 GMT
Rebel ( askew) and square (erect). I'd always noticed the difference of laser sword orientation/line quality in this shot but never saw it as reflective of the two characters until just moments ago. Wow.
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Post by Subtext Mining on May 9, 2024 21:32:37 GMT
Here's a detail I've always heard and never double-checked, I just assumed it was true.
People say baby Leia opens her eyes in RotS and sees Padmé.
But, I just looked and do not see this happening. Both baby Luke and Leia have their eyes closed the whole time.
Is there another cut or something with this in it?
This is the case when they're taken to their adoptive homes, but not in the delivery room.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 9, 2024 22:00:56 GMT
Yeah, I'm sure I've noticed them before, but forgot. Most of these recent posts have been more about noticing repeating motifs I probably hadn't consciously connected before. Another thing I noticed at the theater: I've seen for some time now, that there's a clip that gets reused, of the alien fans in the podracing arena. But I only noticed it being reused 2 or 3 times. However, the other day, while being able to see it on the big screen, I lost count after the 6th time. The most distinctive attribute is the snouted alien guy enthusiastically pumping his fist. Every time it cuts to this shot, it's the same footage of the crowd on repeat. It's like Padmé pushing the same button in her ship in AotC, or Boussh saying the same two words every sentence. Déjà vu. A glitch in the Matrix. It happens when they change something. Rebel ( askew) and square (erect). I'd always noticed the difference of laser sword orientation/line quality in this shot but never saw it as reflective of the two characters until just moments ago. Wow. Upright and to the side. Phallic variation. The sabers also "tell the time" -- your mileage (or clockage) may vary, but I make it 11 o'clock (or o'cock), PM, close to midnight. The proverbial 11th Hour in the Garden of Eden. The two sabers and the men holding them also form a "glyph", of sorts, potentially a new form of language. But what is the "meaning" of this particular glyph? Qui-Gon Glyph, Obi-Rune Kenobi. Here's a detail I've always heard and never double-checked, I just assumed it was true. People say baby Leia opens her eyes in RotS and sees Padmé. But, I just looked and do not see this happening. Both baby Luke and Leia have their eyes closed the whole time.Is there another cut or something with this in it? This is the case when they're taken to their adoptive homes, but not in the delivery room. EYES WIDE SHUT. Mandela effect. And: "You assume too much." You're right that the twins are born with their eyes closed and that they never open them in the birthing scene. This sort of goes along with Obi-Wan's instruction to Luke in ANH, "Your eyes can deceive you -- don't trust them." Despite the sadness (Padme, Yoda) and the horrors (Vader, Sidious) around them, they are born within a pure white light, into a kind of innocence. Yet, once they are separated and taken to their respective homes in the wider galaxy, their personalities already start to manifest: Leia with her eyes open, soaking in all she sees, and Luke, blissfully asleep, the eternal dreamer. It turns out that Leia's pragmatism and Luke's idealism are both necessary to saving the galaxy and in restoring peace and justice to the universe. And underneath it all, that baby-like innocence and fraternal bond, one reinforcing the other.
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Post by Subtext Mining on May 13, 2024 20:26:57 GMT
Another thing the big screen reminded me of, Jar Jar and Shmi have a scar on the same spot above their lip.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 13, 2024 21:56:09 GMT
Another thing the big screen reminded me of, Jar Jar and Shmi have a scar on the same spot above their lip. A lot of characters have facial scars in Star Wars -- ever noticed that? Anakin gets one in ROTS (well, I mean, he starts the movie with one, and he leaves it with quite a few -- burn!!!), Palpatine reports to the Senate that the "attempt" on his life has left him "scarred and deformed", Shmi herself sports fresh scars at the Tusken camp in AOTC, Dexter Jettster has a big scar running down his turkey-like chin, Luke is attacked by the wampa in TESB and left a mess (echoing and perhaps disguising facial injuries Mark Hamill suffered in a car crash prior to filming), and even Han bears a scar under his lip (due, again, to an automobile accident Harrison Ford was involved in when he was younger).
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Post by Somny on May 14, 2024 0:37:28 GMT
Rebel ( askew) and square (erect). I'd always noticed the difference of laser sword orientation/line quality in this shot but never saw it as reflective of the two characters until just moments ago. Wow. Upright and to the side. Phallic variation. The sabers also "tell the time" -- your mileage (or clockage) may vary, but I make it 11 o'clock (or o'cock), PM, close to midnight. The proverbial 11th Hour in the Garden of Eden. Always a level or two deeper (and Freudian). I love it! The two sabers and the men holding them also form a "glyph", of sorts, potentially a new form of language. But what is the "meaning" of this particular glyph? Qui-Gon Glyph, Obi-Rune Kenobi. Pyro, is that you?
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 27, 2024 1:26:17 GMT
This is a big detail, but somehow. Only just now. To my knowledge. And this is so obvious but I can't recall George or anyone else saying it out loud, but George didn't exactly make two trilogies, original and prequel! He made the original trilogy, which in interviews he originally imagined as one big movie. Then for the prequels, he made a standalone movie TPM and its status as prologue is known. THEN he made the other two, which have a whole different tone. The structure it leaves us is one that is three-part, with each being longer than the last. It was never two equal trilogies. Our ideas about the structure of it, could be missing something crucial.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 27, 2024 2:27:28 GMT
This is a big detail, but somehow. Only just now. To my knowledge. And this is so obvious but I can't recall George or anyone else saying it out loud, but George didn't exactly make two trilogies, original and prequel! He made the original trilogy, which in interviews he originally imagined as one big movie. Then for the prequels, he made a standalone movie TPM and its status as epilogue is known. THEN he made the other two, which have a whole different tone. The structure it leaves us is one that is three-part, with each being longer than the last. It was never two equal trilogies. Our ideas about the structure of it, could be missing something crucial. Sure. It's not a small detail, though, as you just said. And it has been discussed before. Essentially, the Star Wars Saga -- that is, the George Lucas Saga (I-VI) -- resolves into a varied array of viewing structures, not the least of which is a triangular or triadic structure, with TPM at the peak (i.e., the pinnacle of the saga). So, basically: I II III IV V VI Of course, it's also possible to conceive of it the following way: III III IV V VIThat one is quite weird, however, but it's perfectly symmetrical.
Whereas, the top triangle, with TPM at the peak, is actually not totally aligned. Look closely and you'll see that the "I" numeral floats right in the centre; indeed, it is perfectly aligned with the "V" numeral at the base of the triangle. But it is also displaced with respect to the "II" and "III" numerals, having greater proximity -- greater affinity, you might say -- for the "III" numeral. It's like TPM is more readily trying to pair up with ROTS; leaving, from a certain point of view, Episode II as the great outlier. Like AOTC has a force field repelling TPM away from itself or something.
TPM is very much a "prologue" (Anakin is small, Jar Jar stands out, Amidala is Queen, Qui-Gon is alive, and Palpatine isn't yet running the Senate -- well, almost...), then you have AOTC and ROTS, where Anakin is "grown up", and more adult topics and themes enter the story, like erotic desire, rape, massacre, mutilation, war, betrayal, and the fall of civilisation (indeed, given the idea that these movies are for kids, there's some pretty heavy stuff going on inside of 'em), and then we're into the OT, which is more of an action comedy, yet nevertheless touches upon and brings to fruition many of the themes and motifs strewn across the PT, including Anakin's redemption.
TPM has always been a bit "different", a bit "special". It was the only one, for example, that had all those "tone poem" trailers made for it, and the only one that was given a 3D release under George Lucas' reign -- indeed, it's still the only "legacy" Star Wars film (non-Disney film) to both be given the 3D treatment and be granted a proper theatrical release so people could see it, en masse, in that format. Lucas obviously took his time making it. It took five years (maybe, in fact, closer to six) to bring TPM to the screen, while AOTC and ROTS were each done in only three years. None of the other Star Wars films can boast of such a generous, drawn-out production schedule.
If you want another way of looking at the PT, here's one: AOTC and ROTS are the podracer engines, and TPM is the seat/cockpit. Or try this: The PT as some kind of self-closing blast door, with the first half of TPM, until Anakin wins the podrace, as the first door on the left-hand side, and then, instead of the hangar where they all celebrate and there's a feeling of jubilation, skip straight to the Jedi War Hangar in ROTS, with Anakin desperately pleading with Mace to join his Jedi family in their attempted arrest of Palpatine, but being denied ("Oh, Ani, it's so wonderful. You have brought hope to those who have none.").
As for this notion of "structure" more generally:
It's really key to the whole thing. I've said before that Star Wars, in some fundamental way, is about the perception of structure and the structure of perception. And, of course, this makes perfect sense, since it is essentially an epic poem, and poems are nothing if not structures: structures of words, rhythm, spaces, and meanings. There isn't really one story, but a concertina of them. This tessellation of structural patterns and devices speaks to the heart of the artist (i.e., George Lucas) as the low-key avant-garde master he actually is. He once described the Star Wars Saga to Lucasfilm scribe J.W. Rinzler thusly:
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 29, 2024 9:00:23 GMT
It's nuts how just reframing the whole saga in my head as I II III IV V VI completely makes me understand the pacing, and the dramatic structure of the story so much more. The decision to have Anakin made so young in TPM that he's played by another actor, was a huge decision to make it stand apart from the other movies. Tonally and everything. I can't believe it took me this long to finally get it... wtf The surprises of the PT continue to astound. It's not even a trilogy. Right in plain sight.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 29, 2024 16:49:11 GMT
It's nuts how just reframing the whole saga in my head as I II III IV V VI completely makes me understand the pacing, and the dramatic structure of the story so much more. The decision to have Anakin made so young in TPM that he's played by another actor, was a huge decision to make it stand apart from the other movies. Tonally and everything. I can't believe it took me this long to finally get it... wtf The surprises of the PT continue to astound. It's not even a trilogy. Right in plain sight. The arrowhead/triangle/pyramid structure makes sense, and is extremely visually elegant, not least when you consider the scrolling yellow text crawl that announces and opens the narrative of every movie, which then recedes from the viewer to infinity (the "real" start of the Saga is precisely unreal: i.e., "Episode Zero"). Lucas says in the Charlie Rose interview (I know, I'm forever citing that thing) that, paraphrasing, "You gotta remember: Star Wars came from nowhere." Which is true. The logo just appears, then recedes and fades to nowhere, rather like the iconic roll-up text that follows. The movies, in other words, are perfectly "at one" with their own nature: they literally tell you how to watch them, how they're constructed, how they are to be "piloted" and "played" by the spectator (who, naturally, is part-spectator, part-player). You can peer at the basic structural devices within the films themselves, in terms of character, narrative, etc., and see the same patterns. For instance, the attitude from the Jedi to Qui-Gon training Anakin roughly corresponds to the fuzzy notion that "Three's a crowd" -- i.e., there's two and a third is an outsider/interloper ("Outmians"). The same with the finales of every film, which almost seem to explode out of nowhere, being much more chaotic and earth-shattering (one or the other, sometimes both) than the first two acts (the movies are, of course, basically three-act structures). Notice that you can also navigate the triangle/pyramid different ways. I, II, IV appears to be a valid viewing order (and don't forget RETRO ORDER). And at the other side of the structure, I, III, VI (and again, don't forget RETRO ORDER). You can still skip around and find different viewing orders without "breaking" anything. But also, the triangle/pyramid as it stands, as a self-contained hieroglyphic for how to "watch" these movies, basically speaks for itself. The numerals are all exactly where they need to be. It's all quite astounding, really. That decision to cast Anakin very young, and all the other choices that make up the matrix of TPM, have been staring everyone in the face all along. Years of detraction have simply been a sideshow distraction, serving to obscure the blatant genius sitting right in the open, patiently waiting to be explored and ridden into the sunset.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jun 10, 2024 23:17:47 GMT
Yoda and Shmi both use sunset imagery to convey inevitable change and the passing of time, things and people.
'Twilight is upon me, and soon night must fall."
"But you can't stop the change, any more than you can stop the suns from setting."
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