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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 14, 2021 21:30:45 GMT
Cryo brought this to my attention years ago, and it really lept out (pun intended) to me and stuck with me. It looks as if the destroyer droid comes out of Padmé’s chest. Creating a buffet of symbolism paths one could tread. LOL! Nice. I'm glad that one has stuck with you. It's sometimes strange what sticks. ATTACHMENT OF THE TWIGS. Notice how even the Destroyer Droid in ghostly form manifests that II or "pause" symbol along its own chest? That symbol is bloody everywhere! And very apt here for Episode II. It truly is the strangest of the Saga. To be this good takes SAGA.
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Post by emperorferus on Jun 15, 2021 8:26:14 GMT
Cryo brought this to my attention years ago, and it really lept out (pun intended) to me and stuck with me. It looks as if the destroyer droid comes out of Padmé’s chest. Creating a buffet of symbolism paths one could tread. You guys always have great takes on the movies that I never would have thought of, but this one stands out to me as unique and intriguing @subtext mining Maybe the frame symbolizes Padme's worst fear buried in her heart coming to life, seeming to almost literally spring out from inside her? (Not the droid itself, but war). She is a pacifist who always believes a diplomatic solution is the correct one. Now she's being proven wrong as the Separatists prepare to initiate the first strike. The way of the aggressive negotiation seems to be the only viable option. Diplomacy surely didn't help them talk down Dooku and the other Separatist leaders. Nothing would once Sidious's agenda was set.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 15, 2021 8:48:38 GMT
Jar Jar helping with the dishes.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 15, 2021 16:20:18 GMT
I think it was only after visiting TFN, some years after TPM had come out, that I learned that you can see Anakin taking Jar Jar by the hand and walking away while Palpatine prattles on -- evidently bored of their immediate surroundings: The moment has been interpreted to symbolise how Jar Jar and Anakin are frozen out of the "adult" world of Coruscant, full of chicanery and obscure political games, with no part for them to play -- yet -- in the fate of the Republic or the machinery of these grand institutions. It is certainly one of the more ingenious moments of the film, in my estimation. And it fits perfectly with what one French reviewer termed the "global sensation" of Lucas' filmmaking/storytelling in the prequels. In more recent years, it has taken on an even more tragic inflection. Ahmed Best and Jake Lloyd, of all the main cast members of the PT, have clearly had a hellish time -- thanks, in no small part, to the reception the prequels and their characters received. Just as Palpatine destroys their characters in time, so did the invective hurled at the prequels bring serious problems to the performers' personal worlds. Ahmed struggled to build any kind of career in the years that followed and came within an inch of suicide, while Jake currently languishes (or has been languishing) in one or more mental health facilities, suffering schizophrenia. As that see-through door implies, there is often a thin membrane between art and life. Indeed, art is life -- just of a slightly heightened and uncommon sort.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Jun 15, 2021 17:11:46 GMT
Anakin sensing what Qui-Gon is saying to Valorum is one of my favorite moments, and something that took me a while to make note of. It's a small moment, but significant. "The situation has become much more complicated." It's a moment that echoes Qui-Gon's own sensing of a disturbance in the Force, another favorite little moment. "Be wary. I sense a disturbance in the Force." Is the disturbance that Qui-Gon is sensing Anakin or the Sith or both? And is Anakin reacting to the complication that is himself or the Sith or both? Qui-Gon is probably sensing the Sith, as he says "Don't let them send any transmissions." But what is cool is he could be sensing the dark future of Anakin, like Yoda does later, and warning Obi-Wan to be wary of it.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 15, 2021 18:03:26 GMT
Anakin sensing what Qui-Gon is saying to Valorum is one of my favorite moments, and something that took me a while to make note of. It's a small moment, but significant. I think it also took me a number of viewings to pick up on it. A very interesting moment, indeed. You know, it's fascinating you linked those moments -- especially since, in the same scene, Obi-Wan tells him the hyperdrive generator is gone, and Qui-Gon responds, "That'll complicate things." The fact that both Anakin and Qui-Gon sense a disturbance, and that they are the only characters visibly acting like they do, gives a sense, just a small sense, and a very heretical one, at that... that maybe Qui-Gon is actually Anakin's father. Everyone assumes that the Force either created Anakin in response to Palpatine, or that Palpatine (or Plagueis) willed it to happen by manipulating the midi-chlorians, but another distinct possibility is that Qui-Gon's own immersion in the Living Force (almost literally: "life-giving force") perhaps somehow brought Anakin into being. Now, I think I do like the other possibilities better, but this interpretation is a new angle on the whole prophecy business. What if Qui-Gon, who made the Living Force his life's work, inadvertently breathed new life into the pool of the Force by somehow "dreaming" up Anakin? He is, after all, the ideal candidate in Qui-Gon's eyes -- someone born and raised free of the Jedi Order, on a planet Qui-Gon himself seems pretty comfortable on (e.g., his betting with Watto), full of midi-chlorians (lifeforms that Qui-Gon seems to regard highly), and sort of the perfect opportunity (through discovering Anakin and vouching for his significance) for Qui-Gon to run his theories on (if Anakin gets to be his apprentice, which Qui-Gon may have secretly hoped all along). We also see that Qui-Gon is pretty bored with Jedi duties at the start of the movie, describing the ominous blockade event as a "trivial trade dispute", full of contempt for the people he's there to persuade into backing down ("These Federation types are cowards. The negotiations will be short"). So perhaps Qui-Gon secretly incepted Anakin through his love of life (not his life, necessarily, but life itself) -- a rare creation because so many of Qui-Gon's energies were concentrated upon the form and flow of life itself. Sexual reproduction where Qui-Gon's lover isn't necessarily Shmi (but look at the bond they have), but the Force -- the Force as Qui-Gon's amorous vessel. Well, it's just an idea. That's a good reading. Although disturbances in the Force aren't necessarily "bad" -- they are more like disruptions in the standard order of things. Thus, Qui-Gon could actually be sensing the immense potential of Anakin and all the upheaval is to come, good and bad. He also begins sensing this disturbance when they land on Tatooine, which is the same "womb" that the story begins at in Episode IV. So he could also be sensing that the Star Wars Saga is a giant Mobius strip; and that the past, the present, and the future are essentially one. Qui-Gon's linear perception of time is being subtly challenged by this new-old environment, and he is getting a faint sense of eternity poking through the membrane of the transient and impermanent.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Jun 15, 2021 18:25:20 GMT
CryogenicQui-Gon being Anakin's father... Now that's a fascinating theory that I never considered. They do seem specially connected and a natural father/son duo. When Obi-Wan asks what Anakin's midi-chlorian count means, and Qui-Gon answers "I'm not sure", it does sound like he knows something. And he is an expert on midi-chlorians, much like Plagueis. So perhaps he followed the will of the Force and influenced the midi-chlorians to create Anakin.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 15, 2021 18:50:13 GMT
Anakin sensing what Qui-Gon is saying to Valorum is one of my favorite moments, and something that took me a while to make note of. It's a small moment, but significant. "The situation has become much more complicated." It's a moment that echoes Qui-Gon's own sensing of a disturbance in the Force, another favorite little moment. "Be wary. I sense a disturbance in the Force." Is the disturbance that Qui-Gon is sensing Anakin or the Sith or both? And is Anakin reacting to the complication that is himself or the Sith or both? Qui-Gon is probably sensing the Sith, as he says "Don't let them send any transmissions." But what is cool is he could be sensing the dark future of Anakin, like Yoda does later, and warning Obi-Wan to be wary of it. This one is especially strange. It was originally cut, but re-inserted on the DVD. It's really ambiguous and confusing and has that out-of-place musical cue. Is he simply afraid of following someone other than Qui-Gon into a car? Does he actually think Qui-Gon is referring to himself, Anakin? What a big ego. I've had mushroom trips where I thought everyone was talking about me. Was it like that? Interestingly, this very moment is sensed by Sidious (or was it Dooku) in the Darth Plagueis novel. He sees a boy on the platform turning around. I wish I could find the exact quote, but it's in there.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Jun 15, 2021 19:06:58 GMT
Anakin sensing what Qui-Gon is saying to Valorum is one of my favorite moments, and something that took me a while to make note of. It's a small moment, but significant. "The situation has become much more complicated." It's a moment that echoes Qui-Gon's own sensing of a disturbance in the Force, another favorite little moment. "Be wary. I sense a disturbance in the Force." Is the disturbance that Qui-Gon is sensing Anakin or the Sith or both? And is Anakin reacting to the complication that is himself or the Sith or both? Qui-Gon is probably sensing the Sith, as he says "Don't let them send any transmissions." But what is cool is he could be sensing the dark future of Anakin, like Yoda does later, and warning Obi-Wan to be wary of it. This one is especially strange. It was originally cut, but re-inserted on the DVD. It's really ambiguous and confusing and has that out-of-place musical cue. Is he simply afraid of following someone other than Qui-Gon into a car? Does he actually think Qui-Gon is referring to himself, Anakin? I think it's supposed to be Anakin sensing that he is being spoken of as a complication. That sound/music is the sound of the Force. What a big ego. I've had mushroom trips where I thought everyone was talking about me. Was it like that? Interestingly, this very moment is sensed by Sidious (or was it Dooku) in the Darth Plagueis novel. He sees a boy on the platform turning around. I wish I could find the exact quote, but it's in there. That is interesting. I never got around to reading the book, though I should.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 15, 2021 19:50:52 GMT
This one is especially strange. It was originally cut, but re-inserted on the DVD. It's really ambiguous and confusing and has that out-of-place musical cue. Is he simply afraid of following someone other than Qui-Gon into a car? I agree that it's ambiguous and a tad confusing, and the music cue is strange, indeed. I think he feels that Qui-Gon is going to look out for him on Coruscant, which is as strange a place to Anakin as Tatooine is to Padme. Instead, he is immediately cast aside, but the timing and the trigger are very debatable. After all, even if Anakin is hesitant to follow the others into the taxi, he doesn't seem to show any reluctance until he senses Qui-Gon talking about him, and seems to resent it. Then the fear/uncertainty is there. The oddness of it has been noted by others. Maybe not often, but I actually found these comments the other day (in a thread about the 4K Blu-ray on the Blu.ray.com fourms), which got me thinking more about it: Well, in fairness to Anakin, he did challenge Qui-Gon at the meal about the reason for him being on Tatooine. Even his mother says that Anakin was "meant" to help them. So perhaps he feels implicated in Qui-Gon's remark. Lucas must attribute the moment some importance if it has a reference in a source like that. It's funny, because I found this clip earlier that talks about the scene being added to the DVD, and here Lucas says nothing about the platform scene -- only the flyby once the taxi takes off: Cryptic reference to the oddness of the scene -- or total evasion? I've highlighted cryptic remarks that could be interpreted to obliquely refer to Lucas flexing about the whole scene: For reference, here is the theatrical cut of the scene:
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 15, 2021 20:10:48 GMT
You guys really seem to think Qui-Gon WAS talking about him. What would Valorum care about the boy? It's the Sith assassin he's referring to.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 15, 2021 20:23:54 GMT
You guys really seem to think Qui-Gon WAS talking about him. What would Valorum care about the boy? It's the Sith assassin he's referring to. Valorum wouldn't necessarily care, and Qui-Gon might not be keen to explain, although there's a strange kid ambling toward the taxi -- along with a strange alien -- regardless. When Qui-Gon addresses the Jedi Council, he first mentions the mystery assassin, but then hesitates to leave and the Council realises he has "more to say" (in the words of Yoda). There's even a look of irritation from Obi-Wan, standing by the door to leave, at this moment. Anakin was basically who -- or what -- he really wanted to tell the Council about. And just like Yoda blasts Qui-Gon for "revealing" his opinion (after he was obviously trying to conceal/downplay it), so Anakin likely senses something similar going on with Qui-Gon on the landing platform.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 15, 2021 20:29:38 GMT
Really, the contrast between that moment on the platform on Coruscant, and the moment in TFA where Chewie walks by Leia without even looking at her, perfectly illustrates how far apart Lucas and Abrams are as directors.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 15, 2021 20:46:53 GMT
Really, the contrast between that moment on the platform on Coruscant, and the moment in TFA where Chewie walks by Leia without even looking at her, perfectly illustrates how far apart Lucas and Abrams are as directors. Pretty much. Lucas is so careful at developing scenes, blocking, editing, tying all the pieces together, and then inventing new pieces to rhyme or resonate against the existing ones. And his camera work is unbeatable. I'm not sure what Abrams was trying to do in TFA with that scene on the base. To have Chewie and Leia fail to acknowledge each other after such a significant event as the loss of Han is unconscionable. His excuse is he was focused on setting up a connection between Rey and Leia instead, and that Chewie was supposedly distracted by the condition of Finn, and he overlooked the Chewie-Leia connection in that process. But that seems like a really blatant thing to overlook -- and how did anyone else not notice? Maybe he was trying to outdo Lucas not giving Chewie a medal at the end of ANH.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 15, 2021 21:05:01 GMT
Really, the contrast between that moment on the platform on Coruscant, and the moment in TFA where Chewie walks by Leia without even looking at her, perfectly illustrates how far apart Lucas and Abrams are as directors. Pretty much. Lucas is so careful at developing scenes, blocking, editing, tying all the pieces together, and then inventing new pieces to rhyme or resonate against the existing ones. And his camera work is unbeatable. I'm not sure what Abrams was trying to do in TFA with that scene on the base. To have Chewie and Leia fail to acknowledge each other after such a significant event as the loss of Han is unconscionable. His excuse is he was focused on setting up a connection between Rey and Leia instead, and that Chewie was supposedly distracted by the condition of Finn, and he overlooked the Chewie-Leia connection in that process. But that seems like a really blatant thing to overlook -- and how did anyone else not notice? Maybe he was trying to outdo Lucas not giving Chewie a medal at the end of ANH. I think he's just a shallow man pumping out shallow movies.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 15, 2021 21:13:36 GMT
Pretty much. Lucas is so careful at developing scenes, blocking, editing, tying all the pieces together, and then inventing new pieces to rhyme or resonate against the existing ones. And his camera work is unbeatable. I'm not sure what Abrams was trying to do in TFA with that scene on the base. To have Chewie and Leia fail to acknowledge each other after such a significant event as the loss of Han is unconscionable. His excuse is he was focused on setting up a connection between Rey and Leia instead, and that Chewie was supposedly distracted by the condition of Finn, and he overlooked the Chewie-Leia connection in that process. But that seems like a really blatant thing to overlook -- and how did anyone else not notice? Maybe he was trying to outdo Lucas not giving Chewie a medal at the end of ANH. I think he's just a shallow man pumping out shallow movies. He likes to make people feel good without always backing that up with the requisite substance.
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Post by Alexrd on Jun 15, 2021 21:14:33 GMT
You guys really seem to think Qui-Gon WAS talking about him. What would Valorum care about the boy? It's the Sith assassin he's referring to. I think the explanation is quite simple: since he knows he's under Qui-Gon's care, Anakin is just signaling Qui-Gon if he's OK with him going with the Queen's entourage.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 15, 2021 21:22:14 GMT
You guys really seem to think Qui-Gon WAS talking about him. What would Valorum care about the boy? It's the Sith assassin he's referring to. I think the explanation is quite simple: since he knows he's under Qui-Gon's care, Anakin is just signaling Qui-Gon if he's OK with him going with the Queen's entourage. Signalling, you say? Hmmm.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 15, 2021 21:38:19 GMT
You guys really seem to think Qui-Gon WAS talking about him. What would Valorum care about the boy? It's the Sith assassin he's referring to. I think the explanation is quite simple: since he knows he's under Qui-Gon's care, Anakin is just signaling Qui-Gon if he's OK with him going with the Queen's entourage. That's my first instinct too. But the music cue is so distressing, that it at least says something about Anakin psychologically. And the fact that of ALL the scenes in TPM to be described in the Darth Plagueis novel, it was this one. There's something up with Anakin in this scene. If it is just a simple character moment, I don't understand why it attracts so much attention to itself.
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Post by jppiper on Jun 15, 2021 22:15:59 GMT
Really, the contrast between that moment on the platform on Coruscant, and the moment in TFA where Chewie walks by Leia without even looking at her, perfectly illustrates how far apart Lucas and Abrams are as directors. Pretty much. Lucas is so careful at developing scenes, blocking, editing, tying all the pieces together, and then inventing new pieces to rhyme or resonate against the existing ones. And his camera work is unbeatable. I'm not sure what Abrams was trying to do in TFA with that scene on the base. To have Chewie and Leia fail to acknowledge each other after such a significant event as the loss of Han is unconscionable. His excuse is he was focused on setting up a connection between Rey and Leia instead, and that Chewie was supposedly distracted by the condition of Finn, and he overlooked the Chewie-Leia connection in that process. But that seems like a really blatant thing to overlook -- and how did anyone else not notice? Maybe he was trying to outdo Lucas not giving Chewie a medal at the end of ANH. and they gave him a medal at the end of TROS ignoring what lucas said about wookies not accepting medals
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