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Post by Subtext Mining on Jun 20, 2022 9:20:21 GMT
The three promises that drive the story of the PT.Obi-Wan's promise to Qui Gon that he will train Anakin to be a Jedi. To which the Jedi capitulate in light of the threat of the newly-returned Sith. Which brings Anakin into the Jedi.  Palpatine insisting that Padmé agree to Jedi protection due to the threat of assassination attempts. "Do it for me, M'lady. Please." Which bring Anakin and Padmé together romantically.  Anakin's promise to himself, his mother and Padmé to learn how to stop death. In order to eliminate any possible threats to his loved ones and his attachments to them. Which brings him to the precipice of his fall. 
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jun 27, 2022 16:20:06 GMT
Anakin, Padmé and the Droids have fallen onto the conveyor belts in the droid factory. Their only choice is to traverse through it while navigating the physical dangers and hope not to lose their heads, get slagged or become part war machines before reaching the end. Eventually they end up staring down the barrel of Jango Fett's gun.   The Jedi have fallen into the Sith's trap of leading the war effort. Their only choice is to traverse through it while navigating the moral dangers and hope they don't lose their heads or become part war machines before reaching the end. Eventually they end up staring down the barrel of the Fett Clones' guns. And Anakin gets slagged on Mustafar.   Don't move, Jedi. Anakin and Padmé have fallen in love. Their only choice is to tie the knot and traverse through their secret marriage while navigating it's many dangers and hope it doesn't destroy them. Eventually Anakin's fears and choices do them in.  With the Jedi entering the war, it's a tough call, a conundrum. Do the Jedi stick by their moral rules and sit back while everyone gets killed, or do they help save the Republic?  Likewise, do Anakin and Padmé stick by societies rules and ignore their feelings, after having declared their love for each other, and just remain friends or have an affair, or do they honor their love and do the sincere, noble, chivalrous thing and get married?  Perhaps the Jedi and the Skywalker couple shouldn't be getting into what they're getting into, but they are doing what they feel is most right. |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 2, 2022 12:02:50 GMT
The four faiths that drive the story of the PT.Some leaders of the Republic know the Senate may be powerless to resolve the Separatist crisis, but they have faith in democracy and negotiations to soon restore peace and stability. Which allows for continued corruption and a reluctance to put together a regular army. The Jedi know the ordering of the creation of the Clone Army was done under disturbingly mysterious circumstances, but they have faith in them as valiant men, loyal to the Republic, to help them soon restore peace and order in the galaxy. Which allows the Jedi and the Clones to be continuously yoked together in combat service. Obi-Wan knows Anakin is not taking to non-attachment and is succumbing to arrogance due to his exceptional skills. But the Council has faith in him as a Jedi, and the Chosen One at that, to soon choose the right path and restore balance to the Force. Which allows for Anakin's continued play with the volatile concoction of attachments and special powers.  Padmé knows what Anakin did to the Tusken Raiders and why, and that he has far-fetched ambitions in his powers, but she has faith in him as a good person to focus on compassion and benevolence, and to only use his powers for good. Which allows for their continued relationship together.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 6, 2022 18:45:39 GMT
I suppose a fourth promise would be Anakin's promise, albeit somewhat naive, to his mother and himself to someday come back and free her from slavery. There was only one thing that could possibly have motivated him to leave his mom, and that was the chance to fulfill his dream of becoming a Jedi. And eventually returning to her, as a powerful Jedi, was his way to justify, to himself, leaving her. And most likely, his never having the chance to return to her most likely contributed to his explosion of frustration when she died. Leading to his anguish, rage and subsequent dip into the dark side.  And another faith in the story would be Qui-Gon's unwavering faith in Anakin as the Chosen One. It's what galvanized Qui-Gon to work so hard to free him and get him into Jedi training. Conjoin this with Obi-Wan's promise to train Anakin and we have a nice nexus point of the promises and the faiths, which give us the first crucial story point of the saga: Anakin being freed and inducted into the Jedi Order.  |
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Post by Gen on Jul 9, 2022 5:57:44 GMT
Hahaha...
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Post by Subtext Mining on Aug 17, 2022 11:11:59 GMT
Zam tried to kill Padmé with a bomb but failed.
Palpatine gets Padmé involved with the Jedi, now her safety is in Anakin's hands.
Zam then tried a different approach, while Padmé used her life as bait.
When Zam is caught she starts being honest but is struck by a dart and her face morphs as she dies.
Zam failed her second attempt but now Anakin will win Padmé's heart, he and Padmé will be together, protecting her will be his top priority, and the Jedi will discover the Clones.
Palpatine tried to turn Anakin with the bombshell that he knows the dark side, but failed.
Anakin gets the Jedi involved.
Palpatine then tried a different approach, where now his safety is in Anakin's hands.
He used his knowledge to save Padmé's life as bait.
When he's caught he starts faking weakness and is struck by his own lightning while his face morphs as the Republic dies.
With the priority of protecting Padmé, Anakin protected Palpatine, and now he will break her heart, he and Padmé will no longer be together, and the Jedi will discover the hard way the true purpose of the Clones.
Other mirrorings:
Obi-Wan chases after Zam's droid / Obi-Wan chases after Grievous.
Obi-Wan breaks a window / Mace and Palpatine break a window.
Anakin loses his saber. Obi-Wan tells him, "This weapon is your life!" / Palpatine loses his saber, being unarmed saved his life.
The Outlander Club is a place of vice and temptation / Palpatine turns Anakin with temptation through his emotional vice.
Hellbent on protecting Padmé, Anakin acts recklessly and impulsively.
Obi-Wan cuts off Zam's arm / Anakin cuts off Mace's hand.
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Post by darkspine10 on Aug 18, 2022 12:04:32 GMT
You've made me think of another interesting parallel.
Obi-Wan: "You're using her as bait?"
Padme puts her life on the line, trusting the Jedi can defeat the bounty hunter once they're lured out of hiding to attack her. But in an interesting twist, Jango is using Zam as his own form of bait. By using Zam as a proxy, he can trick the Jedi into a situation that ends with Zam dead and a single clue related to Kamino planted to lead them to the clone army. It's never actually confirmed in the text whether this was Jango or the Sith plan all along, but it always struck me as a brilliantly clever way to ensnare the Jedi (you could go with the theory that Dooku even requested Jango use the dart on this mission specifically, if you want to go further up the chain).
The Jedi think that the bait plan worked out in their favour, when in fact they were merely pawns in a much larger game the whole time.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Aug 19, 2022 22:10:14 GMT
 Yeah, there's no word as to whether or not the dart was meant to lead the Jedi to Kamino, like a lot of things It seems to have been left ambiguous. But if so, this fits. And either way, I like it. And we also have Kenobi using himself as bait in the night club to catch Zam. |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 28, 2022 16:35:35 GMT
This is an old one, but one that I really like because it goes to the very core of what the saga is about. To his future wife: "I'm a person and my name is Anakin."  To his son: "That name no longer has any meaning for me."  Padmé is the one that first believes that there is still a part of the good Anakin inside Vader, something that passes on to Luke, so in a sense it's like Vader is still speaking to Padmé in the second instance. I also find it interesting that Anakin says in the dinner scene about Qui-Gon's lightsaber, "Only Jedis carry that kind of weapon," seemingly blissfully unaware of the very existence of the Sith, only to become one and carry the red-bladed saber of a Sith. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 28, 2022 20:51:38 GMT
Yeah, when Vader tells Luke, "You were right about me," in his final moments, it is like he is responding to Padme and Qui-Gon in their final moments, both of whom insisted he would bring balance, and that there was still good in him.
I guess we could say that Padme and Qui-Gon's words are like the light from stars that are many light years away, so it takes time for this light to finally reach Anakin during Episode VI.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Sept 29, 2022 22:17:19 GMT
I also find it interesting that Anakin says in the dinner scene about Qui-Gon's lightsaber, "Only Jedis carry that kind of weapon," seemingly blissfully unaware of the very existence of the Sith, only to become one and carry the red-bladed saber of the Sith. Yes, Anakin displays a lot of innocent naïveté about the Jedi and how things work in Episode I. Not only does he think they're invincible, but that they're free to do whatever they wish, to independently right whatever wrongs as they see fit. He dreamed of being a Jedi and also promised his mother he'd return to free her, like that would of course be perfectly ok. Sadly, it's a tough world and he eventually found out things don't always work that way. But in many respects he also did not outgrow that notion. I feel in some ways, in a lot of ways, Anakin in TPM serves as a proxy for all the SW fans who had romanticized perceptions of the Jedi and what they did. And even the Jedi themselves were unaware of the Sith's continued existence, only to fall to their blade and clever plans. They exploited the Jedi's blind spots and Achilles heels as well as Anakin's. And the Republic's for that matter. |
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Post by darkspine10 on Oct 24, 2022 23:33:49 GMT
I had a small but intriguing thought today about some of the earliest dialogue in the Prequel trilogy. It concerns this exchange between Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon: QUI-GON : "Don't center on your anxiety, Obi-Wan. Keep your concentration here and now where it belongs." OBI-WAN : "Master Yoda says I should be mindful of the future." QUI-GON : "But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the living Force, my young Padawan." Now, on the face of it, this is simply good establishing dialogue for the two characters. The words quickly zone in on what makes Qui-Gon stand out from the other Jedi and how Obi-Wan is more 'by the books', in a way that also sprinkles in some decent life advice about focusing on the present. But on reflection, a deeper meaning jumped out at me. In the Star Wars universe, what is 'the future' essentially referring to? From the perspective of The Phantom Menace, 'the future' is in fact the Original Trilogy. In other words, George Lucas is reaching across the screen in this moment to say to the audience 'don't bring too many preconceptions about Star Wars into this movie. Take each scene as they come and appreciate the details and value of them on their on terms, without overly relying on what came before.' The 'future' Obi-Wan speaks of becomes the past, layering on a meta level to the dialogue that quietly signals that Lucas wanted to try something novel with the Prequels and invites the audience to follow along and not be overly comparative to other movies that had differing aesthetic goals. It's especially subtle because on the surface the dialogue already serves a great efficient function in the script, to get us up to speed on the characters before the action starts, but it becomes elevated by a simple in-depth reading. And people say the man writes bad dialogue!  |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Oct 25, 2022 13:35:14 GMT
That's the kind of thinking I like to see! And great minds think alike; Cryo, I, and some others have been kicking this around awhile, but I particularly like your angle on it and the way you word it. Clear and concise. It's also very fitting how it's Obi-Wan, a central figure of the OT and our anchor for it here in 1999's TPM. AND that Obi-Wan is the only character in the film who is the same age as the audience members in 1999 who grew up with the OT. And Qui-Gon, as the new face of the new SW, represents the older, yet newer, wisdom. More in this Thread |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Oct 26, 2022 5:14:26 GMT
I like to think we all knew this ten, fifteen years ago, and even talked about it. Even before that. We all knew there were "meta" meanings to the script, we just didn't make anything of it, because, well, we just expected our movies to have these levels of meaning. Of course, we went through a phase where we were gaslit by imbeciles who believed Lucas was a hack, but really, who even thinks that anymore?
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Post by Ingram on Oct 26, 2022 10:49:51 GMT
Of course, we went through a phase where we were gaslit by imbeciles who believed Lucas was a hack... Speak for yourself.
Yet, I also appreciate your honesty. No doubt there must have been a phase for many a fans who while adoring the films had to square some form of cognitive dissonance between the internal and social wherein fuller expressions, even to oneself, was compromised to certain degrees.
At the risk blowing my own bawoonka, though ...yours truly? From day one my bayonet was fixed against the onslaught of lazy, immature, intellectually bankrupt/dishonest/fish-brained rhetoric hurled at those films on a near hourly basis, it seemed. Maybe age had something to do with it, as I was already crossing into my adult years by Episode I.
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Post by Somny on Oct 26, 2022 13:51:03 GMT
The reaction to AOTC from certain corners almost sunk my battleship but I managed to preserve a shred of enlightened discreteness with the help of books, media interviews, online content and DVD special features brimming with insight about the inner-workings of SW and the PT, largely from Lucas himself... and reading Cryo helped too.
I've actually been able to turn the tide on a number of IRL conversations sparked out of animus toward the PT by invoking said product of good ol' fashion readin', watchin' and learnin'. But it's kinda like shooting fish in a barrel when most of these purported fans have scarcely even seen THX 1138 or American Graffiti.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Oct 26, 2022 15:08:21 GMT
I never said I bought into the gaslighting. At all, really. I liked Ep I when it came out, but I was in high school for the rest of the movies. I wasn't thinking about that kid stuff at all. I knew there was backlash against Jar Jar, but when AOTC came out I saw it after school, Natalie Portman gave me a boner, and when I left the theater I figured everyone was cool again. I rented it once at Blockbuster for the special features, because, that's what you did back then. Only once I got to college did I realize the fans had created their own fantasy world where George Lucas was an idiot, and that the fans needed to rescue the films from him. I even had one of those originaltrilogy dot com people as a dorm roommate leading up to Episode III. Of course, once that came out, I was blown away, and literally cried through half of it, because I finally realized how serious the story was. I went to TFN that week to celebrate with the fans. And of course they sucked for the most part.
Really, I don't know if so many people really believed the prequels were bad, I think somehow it just became a fashionable thing to say. I have to remind myself, within fandoms especially, that people are selfish, unimaginative, sneaky, and self-congratulatory fuckfaces. They can't wait to throw creative people, and each other, under the bus, for their own perceived reputations. It was the cheapest opinion of the early 2000s, and they ate it all up because they don't believe in anything anyway.
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 26, 2022 19:32:15 GMT
This is the most relatable comment I have ever read on the internet.
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Post by Ingram on Oct 26, 2022 21:00:53 GMT
Really, I don't know if so many people really believed the prequels were bad, I think somehow it just became a fashionable thing to say. Probably the more accurate truth. It was like an ongoing observable phenomenon of mass self-gaslighting. It was also a large percentile of people who simply never gave a shit about Star Wars in the first place until the Prequels put "bad movies" on their armchair critic radar. This is the most relatable comment I have ever read on the internet. You guys seriously need to grow up and maybe try acting your age by not reducing everything to pervert sex stuff and inapprop Mirroring and Symbolism:
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 26, 2022 21:05:33 GMT
Ingram's use of sarcasm is as impeccable as ever.
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