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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 15, 2021 9:25:45 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on May 15, 2021 9:55:23 GMT
Ah, Seeker! Adding beautifully to our humble forum already! Wonderful thread idea and a brilliant exegesis! C-3PO and Darth Vader: Anakin turning into "droid man" ("Well, if droids could think..."), the "maker" becoming the "made" ("Leave him or we'll never make it!"). So much of the PT sums to makers and makings; or makers and unmakings. Another neat rhyme between Anakin and Threepio is how they both undergo an heroic or otherworldly transformation, of sorts, across the three prequels: Threepio gains coverings (and has his "moment to shine" in Episode III -- like Golden Goose/Poster Boy Anakin), just as Anakin outwardly bolsters his confidence and skillset and turns into "The Hero With No Fear", while there is also a degree of blindness/innocence in their actions (both get caught up in the "nightmare" of the droid factory in the middle of their journeys: a symbolic representation of the coming machine era and a preview of Anakin trying to "save" Padme on Mustafar), and in the end, after the chaos of battle/strife, both "forget" their actions and ultimately emerge from a dream or fugue-like state. The psychological/ambulatory and musical/structural meanings of the word "fugue" also very aptly apply to the PT and to the Saga as a whole. Idle wanderings, metaphysical meanderings, and eventually: a cleansed/celestial state of being (elevation to "godhood"). Created sick, commanded to be sound. I've got a few to add to your thread. I've actually been collecting and collating my own set of PT/Saga mirrors for several years. I have a folder on my PC full of these sorts of interlinkings. My ultimate aim is a blog of some sort similar to the obscure but terrific Star Wars Verses. However, I'll definitely post a few here. That said, you've started with a corker, and you clearly have a strong eye! No pun! Anyway, whatever I add, I'll try and match the visual quality and use 4K screenshots from Star Wars Screencaps. I like visual consistency.  On a more technical note, I think people should either link directly to the aforementioned "screencaps" website, or upload screencaps directly using a hosting service like Imgur. Unfortunately, image-upload websites are pretty unreliable (they often shut down or block images in time), but Imgur seems like one of the better ones. |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 15, 2021 12:27:35 GMT
Ah, Seeker! Adding beautifully to our humble forum already! Wonderful thread idea and a brilliant exegesis! C-3PO and Darth Vader: Anakin turning into "droid man" ("Well, if droids could think..."), the "maker" becoming the "made" ("Leave him or we'll never make it!"). So much of the PT sums to makers and makings; or makers and unmakings. Another neat rhyme between Anakin and Threepio is how they both undergo an heroic or otherworldly transformation, of sorts, across the three prequels: Threepio gains coverings (and has his "moment to shine" in Episode III -- like Golden Goose/Poster Boy Anakin), just as Anakin outwardly bolsters his confidence and skillset and turns into "The Hero With No Fear", while there is also a degree of blindness/innocence in their actions (both get caught up in the "nightmare" of the droid factory in the middle of their journeys: a symbolic representation of the coming machine era and a preview of Anakin trying to "save" Padme on Mustafar), and in the end, after the chaos of battle/strife, both "forget" their actions and ultimately emerge from a dream or fugue-like state. The psychological/ambulatory and musical/structural meanings of the word "fugue" also very aptly apply to the PT and to the Saga as a whole. Idle wanderings, metaphysical meanderings, and eventually: a cleansed/celestial state of being (elevation to "godhood"). Created sick, commanded to be sound. I've got a few to add to your thread. I've actually been collecting and collating my own set of PT/Saga mirrors for several years. I have a folder on my PC full of these sorts of interlinkings. My ultimate aim is a blog of some sort similar to the obscure but terrific Star Wars Verses. However, I'll definitely post a few here. That said, you've started with a corker, and you clearly have a strong eye! No pun! Anyway, whatever I add, I'll try and match the visual quality and use 4K screenshots from Star Wars Screencaps. I like visual consistency. On a more technical note, I think people should either link directly to the aforementioned "screencaps" website, or upload screencaps directly using a hosting service like Imgur. Unfortunately, image-upload websites are pretty unreliable (they often shut down or block images in time), but Imgur seems like one of the better ones. Thank you, and great observations as always. I'd love to see what mirrors you have. A blog like Star Wars Verses is a good idea. |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 16, 2021 1:37:56 GMT
Thanks, Seeker! Recapitulating a post I made last year, and expanding on it in the process (I figured this would go nicely with your opening post)...    Thrust into and pulled apart by the light. The latter part of the triptych is even meta-observed by C-3PO himself -- "Disintegrated?" The droid is also of the same design that helped reassemble Anakin and subsequently helped Anakin's son recover -- after a "Wampa" and "Father" attack respectively -- in the last movie:     Another interesting detail is how the droid in Jabba's Palace is being pulled apart by two "pillars" -- evoking a poignant moment where Anakin is torn over his "head" versus his "heart", concerning the fate of his mother, in the exact middle (by chapter number) of the PT:  And on Tatooine, note the two crude "pillars" (pipes) in the background, symbolically underscoring Anakin's struggle and practically squeezing him into a panic attack:  And what seems almost comical in ROTJ is a grave moment of discovery for Anakin in AOTC:  But the "A" shape ("A" for "Anakin") is inverted in ROTJ -- redemption and an end to suffering on the way?  Consider also these lines from Obi-Wan: "Well, if droids could think, there'd be none of us here, would there?" "He's more machine now than man. Twisted and evil." But with Anakin, man and machine are eternally bound together. |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 16, 2021 3:03:34 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on May 16, 2021 3:12:26 GMT
Thanks, Seeker. As for your new post: "Fire" and "Ice"? Pyrogenic and Cryogenic ?   And beyond that -- wow! You know, it's like a spirit/jinn leaving the body (the "wider" shot from both ROTS and ROTJ). Pity hot. And cool. |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 16, 2021 3:40:12 GMT
Thanks, Seeker. As for your new post: "Fire" and "Ice"? Pyrogenic and Cryogenic ? And beyond that -- wow! You know, it's like a spirit/jinn leaving the body (the "wider" shot from both ROTS and ROTJ). Pity hot. And cool. Yup, Pyro and Cryo.  It is indeed like their spirits are freed from their cyborg shell, in a flash of fire and lightning. |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 16, 2021 3:56:45 GMT
Yup, Pyro and Cryo. It is indeed like their spirits are freed from their cyborg shell, in a flash of fire and lightning. Prometheus and Frankenstein (the latter story was subtitled by author Mary Shelley as "The Modern Prometheus"). And yes, yes, yes... The man/machine motif is so intense and practically endless! In a Campbellian sense, your last post reminded me, Seeker, of the title "Masks Of God". I blanked on the medical robot's name earlier, but the one in TESB, at least, is known as 2-1B. 2-1B or not 2-1B... Well, it has been said that Anakin has something in common with Hamlet. The time is out of joint. O cursèd spite,
That ever I was born to set it right!
(Hamlet, Act I, Scene V)I'm going to engage in a bit more recycling and summon up "the beauty shot" (the ultimate beauty shot) of the PT again, along with a short and elusive poem: The Floor
Russell Edson
The floor is something we must fight against.
Whilst seemingly mere platform for the human
stance, it is that place that men fall to.
I am not dizzy. I stand as a tower, a lighthouse;
the pale ray of my sentiency flowing from my face. But should I go dizzy I crash down into the floor;
my face into the floor, my attention bleeding into
the cracks of the floor.  Dear horizontal place, I do not wish to be a rug.
Do not pull at the difficult head, this teetering
bulb of dread and dream . . .   |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 16, 2021 7:15:26 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on May 16, 2021 10:01:30 GMT
Another fine addition to your thread, Seeker! The Lucas quote complements those images beautifully. There's a few other Lucas quotes that underline his tastes and proclivities with Star Wars -- with all his film art. Basically, Threepio is close to the main character of the Saga, because he's the first to speak in the OT and the last to speak in the PT, bookending the trilogies in even the same location, making (or lampshading) the Saga into something of a cinematic Möbius strip. Furthermore, as you have elucidated, Lucas not only chose to have Anakin assemble him (and Padme to supply him with his first set of coverings -- though later cut), but Lucas determined that Threepio should function as the saga's main storyteller (in ROTJ with the Ewoks), and that Threepio's earliest experiences and mishaps should playfully echo the more abstract discombobulation and reconstruction of the other characters, especially the psychological/spiritual journey of his remade "maker". In essence, because Threepio isn't mortal in quite the same way as the human characters (a point made rather savagely in the arena sequence in AOTC: Jango dies through beheading, while Artoo pops Threepio's head off and restores him to his original body), Lucas gets to have a bit of fun abusing Threepio in various ways: he gets shut down, he loses an arm to the Tuskens that surprise Luke, he finds he is "naked" in Episode I, he is put through the hellscape of the droid factory and loses all control of himself in battle, he's shot to pieces on Bespin, he journeys to the underworld of Jabba's Palace, gets knocked over and covered in goop, and even has his eye pecked out, then lands in a rather undignified manner (for a fussy butler) head-first in the sand; and so on. Even the whole of Star Wars is shown to be a slight "put on" when Threepio and Artoo dodge a torrent of lasers by casually walking through a hail of gunfire at the start of the OT. Inspired, of course, by the female Art Deco robot in "Metropolis" (the Maschinenmensch), which is one of cinema's first ever robot characters, Threepio is one of the Saga's most conspicuous examples of its retro-futurist aesthetic shadings, a mascot for the pastiche-driven nature of the series and an avatar of syncretism (Star Wars is a heterogeneous fusion of many perspectives and influences), and yes: an emissary, of sorts, for Lucas' love of farce, whimsy, orthogonal storytelling, and perhaps most of all, his fascination with abstract or pure cinema (that just so happens to be stuffed into a high-concept blockbuster series based on "Flash Gordon"). Let me illustrate with a few quotes: And a few relevant Wikipedia links to peruse: |
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Post by Moonshield on May 16, 2021 11:07:39 GMT
One of the best examples of Kuleshov effect is Padme's tears. Lucas created the effect if she was crying for the younglings. Hits me every time.
Even now I can remember how I watched that in Moscow theater in 2005. It was sooo tragic.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 16, 2021 13:36:46 GMT
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 16, 2021 15:03:00 GMT
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Post by Alexrd on May 16, 2021 15:53:51 GMT
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Post by Moonshield on May 16, 2021 17:13:22 GMT
Not a big fan of symbolism actually, but this hits me every time.  All that remains of Anakin. |
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Post by smittysgelato on May 16, 2021 20:04:59 GMT
I have been thinking about the parallels between Anakin and 3P0 a lot lately, so I am VERY excited about Seeker of the Whills bringing this topic up. ![]() ![]()  One could interpret Anakin having overlooked 3P0's missing eye as foreshadowing for his own loss of vision...  ...when it is obscured by the "greedy, red eyes of the dark side"...  ...followed by Luke helping to repair Anakin's vision, so that Anakin can again see with his own eyes, that is, the "compassionate, blue eyes of the light side." P.S. Still struggling to figure out how to get screenshots to appear in the forum as bigger than thumbnails. I'll also drop a link to my latest blog post because it touches upon a lot of what has been covered in this thread in regards to Anakin and 3P0, but I also manage to connect all of that to the Japor Snippet necklace in a slightly different manner than I've seen anywhere else online. I'm might be totally wrong about it, and maybe, I went a bit too far in a few places, but I decided to just go for it  Or maybe the way to put it is that I elaborate on the relationship between 3P0, Anakin, and the necklace in a slightly different manner. Anyways, I'll let you all be the judge of that. Reply #1, Cryo: "a cleansed/celestial state of being (elevation to "godhood"). Reply #5, Cryo: "you know, it's like a spirit/jinn leaving the body." YES, Cryo. EXACTLY. The Gnostic Nous escaping the chains of Physis and all of that. I also enjoy 3P0's mock apotheosis in Episode VI when the Ewok's mistake him for a deity. I believe I have seen that mentioned somewhere online, heck maybe it was from this very forum. I don't remember. smittysgelato.wordpress.com/2021/05/04/prequel-posts-4-anakins-limbs-and-japor-snippet/ |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 17, 2021 7:29:23 GMT
Fantastic observation, smittysgelato . "Where is everybody", C-3PO says without his right eye. Anakin loses everyone important to him when he transforms into Vader, and doesn't truly see a loved one again until Luke uncovers his eyes. Another parallel between Anakin and C-3PO: Anakin is believed to be the Chosen One by the Jedi.  C-3PO is worshipped as a god by the Ewoks.  Great blog, btw. |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 17, 2021 9:00:32 GMT
Wonderful contributions, Alexrd , Moonshield , smittysgelato , and, of course, Seeker of the Whills . This thread is killing me. It reminds me of good times on TFN -- a time free of politics, vituperation, negativity (well, okay, that has never existed on TFN), and full of open discussion and glorification of the rhyming, symbolism, and beauty of the PT (which has certainly existed in pockets on TFN; albeit some years were quite dry). It's not that I'm nostalgic per se, but I would give this thread the "gold star" of all the threads on Naberrie Fields at this very moment. It has brought back some of the analytical fire and joy I used to experience when discussing these movies. I must return to this thread, and some of the fine contributions above, a little later; but for now, I really wanted to spotlight the last post: Fantastic observation, smittysgelato . "Where is everybody", C-3PO says without his right eye. Anakin loses everyone important to him when he transforms into Vader, and doesn't truly see a loved one again until Luke uncovers his eyes. Another parallel between Anakin and C-3PO: Anakin is believed to be the Chosen One by the Jedi. C-3PO is worshipped as a god by the Ewoks. Great blog, btw. Very nice -- and the framing here is so freakin' great!! (And yes, Smitty has a great blog, too!). This is why George Lucas' Saga has been rocking my world the past fifteen-or-so years; and, in a way, all my adult life. I think it also makes for a very sweet sense of completion when Anakin's own tin-man creation is finally elevated to a "god" -- followed, in a sense, by Anakin himself. Luke ("the Son") is the one "helping out" with the elevation in both instances. And if we focus on these frames and what they circumscribe: from being rejected in a cold place with its myriad heights and hierarchies (by the lofty Jedi) to being accepted in a place of nature and warmth (by the Ewoks) -- THAT is how you rhyme a saga! And look how much detail there is in everything to tantalise the eye and stir the mind -- people/creatures, things, a world. I just reminded myself of a line from... Well, frankly, and slightly unsettlingly, Google is no help here! I don't actually know the source. Anyway, it's a line printed on a wall in a visitor's centre in a picture I took in a forest preserve (somewhat Endor-like) not far from where I live (did you catch all of that?): I watched and I saw, ants mankind, a nest the Earth, a forest the Universe
-- Alison HayesHow stirring is that? It's the kind of epigraph I would expect to see in one of Carl Sagan's books. But it also describes the kind of "vision" possessed by George Lucas. A vision that, to some extent, is also ours -- when we partake of the world the artist has molded and prefigured for us. Indeed, there's something wonderfully cosmic in that elusive line, putting me in mind of what Lucas recently said regarding the major themes/motifs of the PT; especially what he consciously strove to implant into Episode I: "The Beginning" -- as a microcosm of the saga, it is both a panegyric and a mythological instruction manual for humanity at the turn of the millennium (falcon): |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 17, 2021 10:30:11 GMT
Wonderful contributions, Alexrd , Moonshield , smittysgelato , and, of course, Seeker of the Whills . This thread is killing me. It reminds me of good times on TFN -- a time free of politics, vituperation, negativity (well, okay, that has never existed on TFN), and full of open discussion and glorification of the rhyming, symbolism, and beauty of the PT (which has certainly existed in pockets on TFN; albeit some years were quite dry). It's not that I'm nostalgic per se, but I would give this thread the "gold star" of all the threads on Naberrie Fields at this very moment. It has brought back some of the analytical fire and joy I used to experience when discussing these movies. I must return to this thread, and some of the fine contributions above, a little later; but for now, I really wanted to spotlight the last post: Fantastic observation, smittysgelato . "Where is everybody", C-3PO says without his right eye. Anakin loses everyone important to him when he transforms into Vader, and doesn't truly see a loved one again until Luke uncovers his eyes. Another parallel between Anakin and C-3PO: Anakin is believed to be the Chosen One by the Jedi. C-3PO is worshipped as a god by the Ewoks. Great blog, btw. Very nice -- and the framing here is so freakin' great!! (And yes, Smitty has a great blog, too!). This is why George Lucas' Saga has been rocking my world the past fifteen-or-so years; and, in a way, all my adult life. I think it also makes for a very sweet sense of completion when Anakin's own tin-man creation is finally elevated to a "god" -- followed, in a sense, by Anakin himself. Luke ("the Son") is the one "helping out" with the elevation in both instances. And if we focus on these frames and what they circumscribe: from being rejected in a cold place with its myriad heights and hierarchies (by the lofty Jedi) to being accepted in a place of nature and warmth (by the Ewoks) -- THAT is how you rhyme a saga! And look how much detail there is in everything to tantalise the eye and stir the mind -- people/creatures, things, a world. I just reminded myself of a line from... Well, frankly, and slightly unsettlingly, Google is no help here! I don't actually know the source. Anyway, it's a line printed on a wall in a visitor's centre in a picture I took in a forest preserve (somewhat Endor-like) not far from where I live (did you catch all of that?): I watched and I saw, ants mankind, a nest the Earth, a forest the Universe
-- Alison HayesHow stirring is that? It's the kind of epigraph I would expect to see in one of Carl Sagan's books. But it also describes the kind of "vision" possessed by George Lucas. A vision that, to some extent, is also ours -- when we partake of the world the artist has molded and prefigured for us. Indeed, there's something wonderfully cosmic in that elusive line, putting me in mind of what Lucas recently said regarding the major themes/motifs of the PT; especially what he consciously strove to implant into Episode I: "The Beginning" -- as a microcosm of the saga, it is both a panegyric and a mythological instruction manual for humanity at the turn of the millennium (falcon): I too missed the rhyming and symbolism discussions of TFN, which is why I created this thread. It's posters like you and HevyDevy and others that got me into thinking about the rhyming of the saga and greatly deepened my love for it. It is so bursting with great imagery and imaginative ideas that it's a source of endless food for thought.      Forests are important to the Star Wars universe, acting as sanctuaries from war. Enclaves of the Living Force, they are often invaded by technologically advanced forces. In a symbiotic relationship, the heroes join with the peaceful yet ably fighting natives to protect these nests of midi-chlorians. By working together with nature as one, they are able to vanquish the corruption of the dark side. |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 17, 2021 11:09:10 GMT
I too missed the rhyming and symbolism discussions of TFN, which is why I created this thread. It's posters like you and HevyDevy and others that got me into thinking about the rhyming of the saga and greatly deepened my love for it. It is so bursting with great imagery and imaginative ideas that it's a source of endless food for thought. Thank you, Seeker -- that's very gratifying to hear. Since you mentioned him: I wish HevyDevy would pick up his account and begin posting here, but I can't force anyone to be here. They must do what they feel is right, of course. Forests are sources of sanctuary, repose ("for/rest"), and regeneration. And why are forests so beautiful? Why, because of trees, of course! It's awful to think of the sheer number of trees and forests that no longer exist, even in just the past decade, due to human expansionism and greed. The continuous destruction of the Amazon rainforest is a blight on the soul of humanity (and bad for climate change), along with the loss of biodiversity and its impact on the Amazonian tribes that live there (and all those illegally killed by greedy loggers and gangsters paid to torture and execute activists and tribespeople who resist or speak out against this appalling ecological crime). The heart of humanity is very sick, and I think Star Wars is there to remind us of that -- how there is dark in light, but also light in dark; with balance being the key. Anyway, that's another great collection/concatenation of images -- what a majestic dream (of light, colour, sound, landscape, theme, rhyme, and detail) this glorious Saga is!!! For some reason, I keep being inspired to post poetic verse. It might be because the Saga itself is so poetic. An ode to trees (people may recognise a snatch of the following from "Superman II"): Trees
By Joyce Kilmer
I think that I shall never see
A poem lovely as a tree.
A tree whose hungry mouth is prest
Against the earth’s sweet flowing breast;
A tree that looks at God all day,
And lifts her leafy arms to pray;
A tree that may in Summer wear
A nest of robins in her hair;
Upon whose bosom snow has lain;
Who intimately lives with rain.
Poems are made by fools like me,
But only God can make a tree.
----------------- Why does this, BTW, sound so familiar? "My heart is beating, hoping that that kiss will not become a scar." "I've been dying a little bit each day since you came back into my life." Hmm... Old Romance (and Old Romantics) will never die! |
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Or maybe the way to put it is that I elaborate on the relationship between 3P0, Anakin, and the necklace in a slightly different manner. Anyways, I'll let you all be the judge of that.