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Post by tonyg on Jul 10, 2017 23:43:27 GMT
These are just ideas that could be discussed later. Of course, it just for fun because I dare say that while interesting, such spinoff would be pretty risky to be made ( I mean regarding to profit and fan reactions) no matter that many fans indeed desire Vader spinoff but they just want more and more scenes like the end of R1 where Vader is just exterminating his adversaries in Terminator like style.
What I would like to see is very different, as is Vader searching the origins of Luke. It is very important for the story of OT as in the end of Episode 5 is obvious that Vader knows who Luke is, but not only because the Emperor told him. Moreover such turn of the story would in a way ‘make peace’ between the first and the last version of most fans favorite episode (as Vader knows indeed but refuses to confess that to the Emperor, which is practically the beginning of his uprising against Palpatine. This spinoff would praise Padme (through the memories about her) and PT in general so is where it could be risky to be made.
In another world, this spinoff should began immediately after the battle of Yavin. In Episode 4 we see that Vader is hit by the Falcon but is alive. As his starfighter is of short range (is mentioned earlier in the movie) he would have no choice but to land on Yavin, destroy his own starfighter and sneak into the base of the Rebels to steal some vehicle. I think this is wonderful opportunity to show that Vader still can use mind tricks extremely wee (to pass unknown by the rebels although his heavy artificial breathing) .Of course, this is also the place where he learns that the son of Anakin Skywalker himself blew up the Death Star as everybody there is discussing this in details as is immediately after/during the ceremony with the medals and the rebels know that they should evacuate themselves as soon as possible. And of course they should split the fleet. It is logical that Vader could trace the main starship (nor Leia or Luke or Han would fly on it for obvious reasons. In fact, except some flashbacks of the ceremony this spinoff doesn’t need ay footage with them, I mean directly involved). So Vader flies out before/during the evacuation contacts the Emperor and ask for permission to destroy the Rebel fleet (at least the main part of it) and also propose to blame the rebels for the destruction of Alderaan (as in this moment only they know the truth, so the Empire would have the advantage to speak first). This fast move not only save Vader but explain why after Episode 4 he is in higher position than ever. Also this would explain why in Episode 5 the rebels have only rests of fleet (they could recuperate later in Episode 6, but in 5 the ships are few). So after a spectacular cosmic battle and after this very cunning move against rebel reputation (the destruction of Alderaan) Vader begins his third move: personally search those who are guilty for the destruction of the Death Star (at this time, officially unknown rebels helped maybe by Obi Wan).
I have more ideas, but I’ll write them later.
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Post by jarjaranalysis1138 on Jul 12, 2017 0:13:51 GMT
Interesting ideas! I think these spin off gaps could come out really well. So is this basically a Vader Solo movie ha ha.
Me and Sherrif talked extensively about this but my idea for a spin off would be a whills movie(sort of like the book of Genesis) and a Shmi movie. I always felt that Shmi is a character so mysterious, that not even Lucas I presume cared much about expanding her own past(or maybe he did...I'm not sure).
Basically the premise is similar to TPM on how it starts. Very slow, methodical and political. You get to observe Smhi's life of what it is to be a daughter of well known politician in her region(it is an alien planet and they are one of the few humans to live there) and a skywalker. I've thought of this extensively. So much that I have decided that Shmi was the most powerful force user in the whole galaxy without knowing it, more powerful than Anakin.
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Post by tonyg on Jul 12, 2017 16:02:17 GMT
Yes, is indeed idea for Vader solo movie. But it would be interesting also that you expand your idea for pre-TPM spinoff.
Why I said that is risky to make such Vader spinoff no matter that so fans want it? Because of the PT references, of course. They are inevitable, moreover, this is the way to pay homage to Padme (she is always forgotten in the newer staff).
I‘ll write later the continuation of my ideas for this spinoff.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 15, 2017 2:40:27 GMT
I have a lot to add to this thread, both in commentary on your guys' ideas and some of my own fan-fics. So I'll start with Tony's Vader story.
I for one would enjoy this story a lot. It has excellent potential to not only see inside Vader's inner turmoil regarding Padme, and to the news that his son survived and is fighting the Empire with Obi-Wan, but also to see how he goes about discovering that Luke is in fact his son.
I love how Vader is forced to land on Yavin, you know in all these years, I never thought of that. However, his particular advanced TIE fighter was equipped with hyperdrive. But in this story it can easily be said to have been damaged in the fight.
Actually, now that I think of it, Vader deciding to head straight to Yavin, rather than fleeing and contacting Sidious seems appropriate. He felt the rebel who destroyed the Death Star was strong in the Force which was rare at that point, so he would've wanted to find him and turn him into his apprentice, hence not informing Sidious immediately.
Having him intentionally crash, in a swamp or something, and surviving, that is great. And then he has to travel by foot through the ancient, wild jungle to find a ship at the Rebel base, which was formerly a Sith temple in ancient times. I like the idea of him sneaking around the base like Ben did the Death Star. And about his breathing, I think this segment of the story would also work well as a nod to horror films where they can hear the bad guy breathing, but when they turn around he's gone. It could also be an opportunity for some Lucas humor. Vader trying to be sneaky and control his breathing, but he makes mistakes.
Part of me likes the idea of him blasting off during the medal ceremony, but your idea of him leaving amidst the rest of the evacuation works better. He just blasts off with the rest of the Rebels. This way he can also avoid standing out. And then he uses his stolen rebel fighter to take out the part of the fleet he evacuates with. Brutal, but would make for a great space fight scene. This would also help to put him in good graces with Sidious after not informing him right away about the Death Star.
I like the idea of the Empire blaming the destruction of Alderaan on the Rebels. Propaganda is a powerful real-world tool that could be used to great affect in the story. I would be intrigued to see how the public could be convinced that the Rebels had the firepower or motive to do such a thing. I recall a few of the novels going into this idea, but I don't remember the details.
There's already enough potential here to assure that it would be a compelling and important story. For one, Vader learning that the destroyer of the Death Star is his son can be as powerful as the "I am your father" reveal in ESB.
Now I'm anticipating your ideas on the next act in this adventure.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 15, 2017 3:00:44 GMT
MIDI, I'm also very intrigued by your idea of a Star Wars Genesis story, as I have something somewhat similar in mind. My idea involves the very first Force-Sensitives of the GFFA. Back before they had a word for it, and obviously long before the founding of the Jedi Order. However, it does stretch into the early days of the Jedi. I have a trilogy set up in my mind which includes such things as the origin of light speed travel, the beginnings of the search for immortality and creation of life, the first rift among the Force-users, the origin of the Prophesy of the Chosen One, ancient Gungans and more. My aim with this is to bring the idea of what's going on in the GFFA to something we could conceivably relate to in our current place in time on our planet, in our galaxy. My story takes place while nuclear technology and AI are still relatively new, for example. As well as paranormal things like telepathy and telekinesis being researched in earnest. But the difference is cooperation between science and spirituality. I also have another one for Shmi, (great minds think alike). Mine takes place shortly before Anakin is conceived, and involves Qui-Gon, Obi-Wan's first mission with him (that he snuck into), Quinlan Vos, Master Dooku, Jango, Gungans again, and more. We learn among many things that Master Dooku and Sifo-Dyas lead the peace accord negotiations on her planet which was in the midst of a civil war. They however become disillusioned when they see the true colors of the planet's leaders.  Shmi's family was friends with this guy who was a tutor (not sure how much I wanna stick with the Lor San Tekka canon, but it would be good if he was a Force disciple). Shim's parents are outspoken anti-war activists and we learn a lot about the situation of her people from the conversations she hears.  Shmi's people were brave and resilient, defending their land against takeover, and they were always very helpful to anyone in need - you will see where Anakin gets his traits. And Shmi risked her own capture to ensure her sister escaped free while their town was raided by slavers. (Their questionable leaders were betrayed by the Hutts? I was also thinking their fall into slavery would in some ways mirror Anakin's fall). And how many of you are aware that Quinlan Vos can be seen in TPM on Tatooine when Sebulba roughs up Jar Jar? This story also features Qui-Gon and Vos taking it upon themselves without the approval of the Council to infiltrate the slave trade industry and figure out how to dismantle it. So yes, this continues the PT tradition of exploring the dilemma between doing what is right vs. what is legally sanctioned.  (Master Qui-Gon hobnobbing undercover with warlord slavers). This part would be very noir/spy trying not to get caught undercover. And there may be something in there about young Obi-Wan saving the slaves lives, you'll have to see  |
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Post by tonyg on Jul 15, 2017 12:27:39 GMT
Great thoughts guys! There is material for at least 2 pre-PT stories here. I first would finish Vader story (just to close the circle) and then discuss the others. By the way, great photo material, Pat. What is the movie with Pernilla August? Few clarifications about the first act of the still unnamed Vader spinoff (by the way, you can propose a title, I'm not very good with them): my idea of how Vader is forced to land on Yavin came from what Han said in ANH when they went out of hyperspace and there was no Alderaan around. They followed an imperial starfighter because it was alone and it was of short range (so it needs to land somewhere)so I thought Vader fights in the same type of star fighter on the Death Star. But of course, if I'm mistaken, the easiest thing is to show how the starfighter is damaged that only a pilot as Vader could make a landing (and traveling into space is just unthinkable). He is forced to crash and not to land because of the Rebel base. He knows the base is his only chance to find a vehicle and to come back but also he knows that the base is guarded (as is seen in ANH) as the Rebels are not idiots. So it can be shown that the Rebels are worried that while some part of the blown Death Star are still crashing on Yavin (the base is protected as is underground) someone could land (if he/she is experienced enough and if he/she survived). So the Rebels see how the Vader starfighter explodes near by the base and they think that this is another piece of the battle station. Vader sneaking into the base is ironic, yes. Because in OT he always shows as he is on some parade, majestically and horrifying in the same way. But here he is forced to sneak and hide. I know that the fanboys think that Vader can do everything but he knows that cannot blow up the whole base so for him is more rational to track the main ships and to destroy the rebel fleet later when he has the chance to do it (and he does it later in the movie). It even can be shown that Vader sees the Falcon and hesitates where to put his last tracking device that he has with him but in the end he put in the in the main vehicle (could be the shuttle of the commander or something like that, is easy to show how Vader identifies it) as it should be done. Then when he is still in the hangar of the base (where is noisy and full of machines and he can easily make the people who are there carrying of the ships that they hear just machines) he hears the story of the son of the hero Anakin Skywalker who blew up the Death Star in almost impossible way. Tattoine is not mentioned, it would be too easy and lazy. While all this happened it can be shown that the ceremony is finished and the commanders made short reunion about the evacuation: the fleet splits in tree parts (the main is tracked by Vader devices and the others are insignificant because they have some errands to do), is said that princess Leia and the survived Alderaans from the base would be escorted to Sullust where is the last Alderaan colony if I’m not mistaken to mourn the end of their home planet (Leia would travel on the Millenium Falcon and that would explain why Vader and Luke never meet till the end of Episode 5) . Vader evacuates as part of the rebel fleet but in the last minute his fighter deviates, enters in hyperspace on another point and goes out in another point. He contacts the Imperial fleet and the closest ship takes him. In the fastest possible way he contacts the Emperor and proposes him to strike first with this propaganda move as the Rebels are still regrouping and also to destroy the main part of their fleet as he put the tracking devices and it could be easily done. The Emperor is fascinated by Vader’s plan because it fits ideally in his principle ‘we can use this in our advantage’ so he agrees and Vader receives full ‘emergency powers’ to command the operation while the Emperor propaganda department prepares for the media ‘attack’. Now I’m wondering when the big epic battle with the Rebel fleet should take part. In the beginning I thought it should be before the searching of Luke origins, now I wonder if this shouldn’t be saved for the finale scenes, because the fans would want it that way. But that is not important. The result will be that the Rebel fleet would suffer big loss and its rests would reunite with Luke (reference to the beginning of TESB). |
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Post by tonyg on Jul 15, 2017 13:30:45 GMT
The second act surely should show Vader search for the Millenium Falcon. This is more psychological than action act. And there would be flashbacks.
Vader’s official argument for this move is that the ship is the trace to those particular Rebels who should be found and prosecuted in public (and not killed in some unknown battle) so everybody should know what is to rebel against Empire (officially to kill innocent empire citizens). Vader and the Emperor talk again and the Emperor asks Vader if he is ready to do personally the mentioned above search (go to Theed and make the local archivists search the files for any passing vehicle with similar characteristics in the last 5 years). Vader responds that this is a test so he travels for the first time in 20 years to Naboo. Of course Vader never says to the Emperor that he has doubts that his offspring is alive. This is the first sign that Anakin’s wakening is coming.
During the traveling Vader enters in his meditation room. These moments would be used vastly in this spinoff to show what Vader really thinks and feels but also how psychotic he became. It is shown how he watches for the first time his life (he broke the stamp of the box) a material from Holonet that is dedicated to Padme funeral. By the way, this is a good occasion to show how the media in Galaxy worked and works in that moment (with this and with the propaganda materials that blame the rebels for Alderaan destruction). The journalists (apart from showing footage from the funeral) describe the official version of the Mustafar events. In short Padme is cheated to go to Mustafar (probably by the Separatists in their last attempt to have a precious hostage as advantage). Anakin Skywalker, whom ship is found on Mustafar by the clone investigators, probably contacted her and went with her for protection. What happened there is unknown, probably Anakin could send her back thinking he saved her and he died on Mustafar in his final combat, killing in self defense the separatist leaders and their droid guards. So the late hero is proclaimed as savior of the Republic and the Empire and is written in the public memory as one of the Jedi who stayed loyal to the Republic (the others are killed in the Temple by the Jedi traitors and the 501-th clone battalion couldn’t do much for them when arrived and took the Temple). Is explained also that when Bail Organa’ ship accidentally finds Padme’s one, the robot that pilots it is already too damaged to explain what happened and Padme was already unconscious and never comes back. She died from exhausting and stress with her unborn baby. The scene cuts in the moment when Vader is zooming repeatedly the image of Padme in the coffin obviously trying to understand is she still pregnant or this is an illusion.
Vader arrives on Naboo and gives orders. While the archivists search the files, Vader is received by the local Governor and he sees the image of Padme in the holographic monument of the Naboo last queens (this is not completely my idea, I saw it in some comic, only Leia was the one who saw the image and it was not holographic ) and as senator Amidala was close friend to the Emperor (official version) Vader is lead to her grave that is in the lake country, of course (he proposed this to the Governor as the Emperor wouldn’t be happy if he came there and didn’t visit it).
I think Vader entering in her memorial (alone) should be one of the momentums of this movie. There should be colorful and relaxed, and wouldn’t look as grave, as Padme would like. In front of the entrance it would be a holographic picture of her in her favorite lake dress of AOTC (and you can imagine how this would hit Vader as this is the dress of their first kiss). The first words in this scene is Vader first memory in the suit when the Emperor says that he killed Padme in his anger. This is interrupted by a call from the archivists who say to Vader that they found something and maybe is information by the ship he is looking for. Vader says that he arrives in Theed the next morning as he has some things to do and in the cover of the night go to the only person on Naboo that could know if Padme gave a birth or not: the doctor of the Royal cemetery of Naboo (Vader saw his name in the documents about Padme’s funeral). Vader goes to the doctor’s villa that is also in this region (the doctor is retired). Actually this is idea from Marvel’s comic but again transformed (in Marvel’s comic is not Vader who interrogates the doctor). I think it is very important showing Vader searching this information personally and in secret. This is also an occasion to show what the probe droid and its drugs actually do: there is no pain only the interrogated person uncontrollably begin to talk about everything that is asked. To resist this (as princess Leia did in ANH) is real feat.
So from doctor’s story we understand that he went to Tantive when the ship was in orbit around Naboo because Bail Organa asked him to do that explaining that he relies most on doctor’s friendship with Padme’s father that’s why he prefers that the doctor makes the obligatory autopsy on the board. Is not necessary to show flashbacks from it, only form the ship. But the doctor learned that Padme obviously gave a birth, (so she was alive after Mustafar). Bail Organs explains that her offspring survived but is in danger because of the father. The father (whose name is never mentioned by Bail) is dead, but his heritage is still in danger and they couldn’t even say that to her family because it would put them also in immediate danger as the Emperor fears of the offspring of the father. So the doctor agrees to make Padme to look like she is still pregnant and never say a word to anyone about this (as he did, before being drugged by the probe droid). Also he says that he saw the baby alive in the ship (actually this should be Leia ) so he was sure that Bail Organa was not lying. Also Bail Organa promised that when the time is right the truth can be revealed to Padme’s family (but as the doctor heard on Holonet that Alderaan is destroyed, this promise cannot be kept).
When Vader is obviously preparing to finish the doctor and go he hears a voice that says to him: “What would happen when the Emperor learns that after your visit to Naboo the Royal cemetery doctor died, lord Vader? His Highness is not someone who believes in accidental coincidences. I’m sure you’ll choose the smart way”. Vader of course, watches around but there is no one (except the doctor who is already asleep by the drugs). So Vader put back his lightsaber and let the doctor alive and sleeping.
Vader immediately goes to Theed (is early in the morning) when the archivists showed him some records about the Millennium Falcon that was inspected the space port as it was suspected for smuggling (as the pilot declares that he has cargo for Jabba the Hutt from Tattoine). Vader immediately recognizes the ship. Now he has the name of the pilot, Han Solo and he can go to Tattoine to talk with Jabba for more information. So Vader is forced to go to another planet where he never again wanted to go.
By the way I don’t think that in such spinoff is obligatory to show new planets (Sullust can be shown of course, but it was already mentioned in OT) because the goal is to fill these small gaps of the main movies.
So Vader contacts the Emperor, explains that the Falcon would soon become the most wanted ship in the whole Galalxy and also that he should pass trough another test that would be even harder: go to Tattoine.
So here ends the film second act. I’ll continue it later.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 17, 2017 1:14:39 GMT
Interesting details so far, this is very thought out. Here's some questions even though I think I know the answer: during the scenes where he's in his mask, would we hear his thoughts? Would you cast Hayden Christensen for the voice acting? How about the suit actor? And the scenes where he's in his meditation chamber, would he have his mask off so we can see his facial expressions? If so, Hayden?
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Post by tonyg on Jul 17, 2017 16:19:30 GMT
Yes, I thought about this spinoff since very long time only I had the chance to write it these days.
I‘ll write the third act later, but now I can say that Hayden is obligatory for it as is the voice for James Earl Jones. My idea is to show Anakin for a while as a part of showing Vader‘s thoughts in more SW style way. Even in these moments Hayden could play both personas (is not impossible to do it) although as we saw in R1 the suit guy was very good in imitating Hayden‘s movements in PT.
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Post by tonyg on Jul 21, 2017 21:48:23 GMT
Act 3 Tattoine
During the trip we see Vader again in the meditation room. As you ask me if we see how Vader looks like without his mask, I think it is appropriate moment to show it. According to all comments in EU, Vader can breathe only there so, I see it like he closes completely the room and activates some mechanism and the room begins to fill with oxygen. So everything would look foggy, unclear and even mysterious. His characteristic breath couldn’t be heard of course, as Vader took off his mask to feel (almost) normal again. I think this scene should begin with Vader looking at some artifact taken as memory from Padme’s grave (I’m not sure if should be something symbolical as real lotus or some hologram but this is a good beginning) and we would hear his thoughts in form of flashback of what the doctor on Naboo said (interrupted by the memory of what the Emperor said in the end of ROTS) All this delirium ends again with the words of the doctor: “But I’m sure that the baby was alive. –Why are so sure, doctor? –Because I saw the baby with my own eyes” and Vader hears the same unknown voice again that is saying: ‘So now you know the truth. Even you couldn’t kill her’. Vader rises with saber in hand but although the oxygen is still floating in the room, it can be seen that he is alone. Then of course, Vader asks in the empty room: ‘Who are you?” and the voice responds: ’You know very well who am I, but you are just trying to forget that’. Then Vader says: ‘You don’t exist! You died on Mustafar’. The scenes cut to the other side of the room when we see a little unclear in the oxygen fog Anakin Skywalker himself who says: I’m not dead. We both know that you are just pretending that I’m not here. And you did it very well in the last 20 years. But now you have doubts’. – The Sith have no doubts (reference to AOTC). – Even the Sith ask themselves some questions. And I think I can guess what question is bothering you, milord’. – And what is it? –Did the Emperor knew that she was alive then and if yes, why he never told you that?’ The scene cuts to some sound signal and Vader hears that they are in the orbit of Tattoine. Vader notifies his soldiers that he would go only with one pilot (i.e. alone there) and they should contact him immediately when they have information form the Imperial fleet (who is chasing the Rebel fleet thanks to Vader).
In Tattoine, Vader goes directly to Jabba’s palace. Jabba is cooperative; he even tells Vader that some bounty hunters are already after Han Solo (reference to TESB) and in the end the deal between the Empire and Vader is that no matter who would find him first, Han Solo is for Jabba and every other companion they catch would be delivered to the Empire for free. Jabba explains that according to the information that his people collected, Han Solo is seen lastly to leave the Mos Eisley space port with two locals that he met in the cantina, young and old. Jabba says also that he suspects that from the description the old one is one mad hermit who lived nearby Mos Eisley and Vader feels he must be Kenobi (is not lazy resolution as Vader already saw Kenobi in the Death Star, and obviously he came with this ship). Jabba doesn’t know anything about the young, but he looked like regular farmboy. While Vader goes out of the palace he saw some evaporators (and also it can be shown that he is obviously thinking about the regular farmboy) and in the end Vader says: “It cannot be” and takes the speeder for the road to the Lars farm.
I will continue later this act, as now I don’t have more time.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 22, 2017 16:41:10 GMT
Ahh, the apparition of Anakin, great idea. This story really gets into the psyche of a broken man and his struggles to resist his past while being forced to come to terms with it. Very moving.I can't wait to see the conclusion.
I also forgot to mention that I'm glad you are including Sullust in this story. I hope we would get to see it. With all the planets we got to see in the films and cartoons, we never did get to see Sullust, and I've been wondering what it's like there since it was mentioned in RotJ in 1983. I would imagine there perhaps may be some Asian influences?
Oh, and you asked which film is the shot of Pernilla August from. It's from Ingmar Bergman's film Best Intentions, the story of his parents. She plays his mom. It's interesting that Max Von Sydow plays her dad, since he is Lor San Tekka. It gave me the idea to have him be Shmi's tutor before the invasion of the slavers. Which reminds me, I have a question for everyone. What kind of career do you think Shmi would have wanted to have if she hand't been a slave?
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Post by tonyg on Jul 22, 2017 19:14:21 GMT
This movie looks very touching. I should find it and watch it.
The story of Shmi looks very exiting and moving, we should discuss it in more details. I also have questions but about yours, I'm sure that Shmi would dedicate her life to help the others. She and Padme have so much in common... while I don't see Shmi as public figure. More like teacher, nun or doctor or something like that.
Now back to the unnamed Vader story (I'm terrible with names, really). About Sullust, I imagine it as small yet rough and unpopulated planet that Alderaans populate and began to transform it as now she looks more Alderaanic with some exotic elements for them. As new beginning for the Alderaan system and a new hope for the last survivors. It should be shown some hope for them in the movie.
I also had plans to show somewhere the mourning for the deceased Alderaans in Sullust. It should be sad and silent ritual and in it princess Leia could be shown as the ritual include that everybody should be in grey or some other sad color with covered head and face. Then anybody could play Leia as she wouldn't have much dialogue. To show Leia (for few minutes) is good idea to prove that she is indeed shocked after Alderaan destruction only indeed during ANH there was no time to mourn about it. Also it could be shown that the Rebellion is the only thing left to her. I also had the idea to show that the Governor of Sullust gives to Leia a small box with hologram record by her father. I mean Bail Organa here.The box is sealed and the governor explains that he doesn't know what her father put there but it was something personal about Leia and her ancestry and that he is instructed to give it to her only if her father dies suddenly. Leia gives the box back to the governor saying that if she survives the war she would back to Sullust and see what is it but now she is afraid that is not the time and she had the strong feeling that this box could really make her deviate from her duty. She also says that Sullust should stay neutral as it is the last hope for the new beginning of the Alderaans (as Leia is still with the outfit for the ritual this scene is easy to make, also the veil would change her voice). So for the viewers is obvious that this box is the answer for the question how the siblings knew details about their family.
Speaking about mourning the dead it could be shown that Luke goes back to Tattoine to honor his uncle and aunt but he do it after Vader so they never met. How can we see that? There is one important question that should be answered here: how the Emperor knew about Luke origins? My answer is that he sent a spy after Vader to know what Vader finds before Vader if I can say so and because the Emperor indeed suspects something; but he wouldn't be Palpatine if he relies only in one source (Vader) to resolve the puzzle with the Rebels. I think this should be shown twice: when the Emperor sends the spy and when the spies reveals the name of Luke Skywalker as the spy stayed after Vader trying to collect more information and saw Luke himself going back for help to some old friends to organize some mourn for the Lars family or I'm not sure how, but there should be a way to know about Luke without the intervention of Vader. So this could be described by the spy in a short conversation with the Emperor (but what should Han do then I have no idea , obviously he shouldn't go back to Tattoine at all, that is clear) I even thought that the spy could be the young Mara Jade on her first Imperial task (this doesn't contradict the new cannon as in these 30 years between ROTJ and TFA many things could happen). Anyways, that are extras to the movie , but if it appears at all it should show also how the Emperor knows about Luke and doesn’t know that Vader also knows and I think the spy moment is good idea.
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Post by tonyg on Jul 22, 2017 22:13:44 GMT
When Vader goes to the Lars farm he couldn't find much, the desert devours everything and does it very fast. Only the wall of the main door survived (but not the door itself) and also the garage is whole (ironic isn't it) as is underground. We can see that Vader passes very fast by Shmi's grave (as the graves are the same as in AOTC obviously Luke still couldn't came back). In the garage Vader finds Luke models of starfighters and other traces and proofs that there along with the family lived young boy but nothing special to know who the boy was. Vader sits (ironically on the same place when Anakin was sitting broken after his confession about the Tusken massacre) and hears again the voice of Anakin: You know that he is my son. You felt him in the Death Star fight. You already learned his name on Yavin. What more proofs do you need?' Vader says nothing but continues to search the back where he finds boxes with obvious old memories and in the end he found some child picture of starship floating around the stars (actually very good one) and on its back is written: ‘Happy birthday to my beloved aunt . Love, Luke’. This is obvious reference to the TPM Anakin who also wanted to see all stars. Vader takes the picture, goes out and then notices that the farm is not just deserted, it has traces of laser blasts around the missing doors. Then he contacts his ship in orbit and asks about the stormtroopers who were searching the missing droids and the Death Star plans on Tattoine. His officer remembers him that Vader personally dismissed them before his departing to the Death Star as they failed to find the planes and Vader ask where they are now. The officer check it fast (as lord Vader is not very patient man) and responds that according to the official information one of them (the captain) is still living on Tattoine. Vader goes to Mos Eisley and finds the ex stormtrooper captain as barman/bodyguard of the famous cantina (or another bar, but there should be some fan service here). The captain as already civilian and very mad of Vader, trying to say that he doesn’t care at all about the Empire as he already owns it nothing but Vader levitates him around choking him from distance (usual Vader trick) . There are some visitors of the cantina who obviously don’t know Vader and try to blast him but are cut by his lightsaber. ( I put this scene only for fan service). The rest of the crowd runs out quickly and Vader stays alone with the captain and says that he is alive (for now) only because Vader want to ask him some questions and if the captain cannot respond so obviously his life is useless. The ex captain tries to say something and Vader release him. The captain explains that they only followed Vader’s instruction to find the droids at all cost and to cover their trails because the mission is top secret. Vader impatiently asks what happened in short and the captain explains that they found the scavengers who told them that they traded the droids to some moister farmer in an isolated farm in the dessert. Because of the secrecy they exterminated the Jawas after knowing the coordinates of the farm and went there. The captain said that he explained to the farmer that the droids were stolen from the Imperial fleet and the farmer insisted that he bought them honestly. The captain explained to the farmer that the Empire would compensate him but they need the droids. So the scene cuts to flashback when we see Owen (from the back, and for obvious reason we cannot see his face) talking with the captain. Owen said that the droids are not there as his nephew went out to do some job with them and he is waiting for him and asked if the boy again entered in trouble as he was occupying with the droids earlier. As the captain didn’t say anything, Owen begins to ask what is going on, what are the droids and the soldiers should leave the farm immediately as Tattoine is free territory and doesn’t belong to the Empire. The captain tries to ask where is the boy but Owen says only: get out of here. We hear only the voice of Beru who is saying from inside: Owen. What is going on? Then the scene cuts to the captain and he explains that he should answer the challenge of the obstinate farmer and his wife as both of them refused to say where this boy Luke went. The stormtroopers of course searched the close farms for Luke but the farmers said that Luke maybe went to the city. The stormtroopers tried to capture him in the space port but this person who they were told is maybe Luke escaped with some old freak in some smuggler ship along with the droids with no trace about their destination. Why this is needed to be revealed? It is needed because I think it would look stupid if Vader ordered the death of his only living relatives for no reason (as is suggested in some fan versions) and in the same time he didn’t learn anything about Luke. In the end Vader unwillingly caused the death of Lars family but I think is more logical if he didn’t know it till that moment. When the captain explains about the ship Vader says: ‘but you even weren’t capable to inform us for these details till now, is that true, ex-captain?’ The captain goes mad to Vader and curses him and tries to fight him and that is his end as Vader crushes him in the wall saying: you never learned the lesson to be careful and polite, ex captain. So after practically after devastating the bar and cutting the last trace to someone who could connect Luke and the Rebels and so on Vader flies to his ship when he receives the news that the Rebel fleet regrouped around Dantooine and the Imperial fleet is hidden near by waiting for Vader’s orders.. The admiral of the Imperial fleet says that it is indeed a smart move from the Rebels as they know that the Empire searched them on Dantooine and didn’t find them, only their deserted base was there so this system is the last place to search them again. So, yeah, good opportunity to show what Dantooine is. Vader gives order to make a blockade around the Rebels and to wait for him as he would lead the attack but to attack immediately if the Rebels try to escape. Vader then contact the Emperor informing him about the future battle and saying that he didn’t learn too much but is confirmed that indeed Kenobi was hiding on Tattoine (obviously the last place that Vader would search for him) and found some unknown boy with no country and relatives (who maybe later became his apprentice or something like that but is too late for the stupid boy now as Kenobi is dead). As Vader saw around Yavin, the boy has some skills as pilot but it wouldn’t’ help him against the Empire, still Han Solo remains the key to all this (reference to the obsessive search of the Millenium Falcon in TESB). The Emperor says that if they joined the fleet they should be destroyed in that battle and Vader agrees. I also forgot something: If Leia goes to Sullust she should do that in hiding and went out also in hiding as now she is enemy of the Empire. So maybe if the Falcon is transporting Leia (and after is leaving Luke closer to Tattoine) it would explain why Vader and Luke ever meet till the end of TESB. Anyways, I’m not good in battles but it should be spectacular and tragic for the Rebels: in the end the main star cruisers sacrifice themselves so the little ones to escape and regroup and this would explain how in the beginning of TESB Luke become so important leader (not only hero) of the Rebellion. Of course it would look like Empire strikes back 1.5 but sometimes even the Empire wins. The battle is won and everybody look very happy but Vader informs his officers that is not over as many Rebels escaped so they should be ready to chase the last Rebel remnants because the Empire should finish them once and for all. He explains that the Rebels would fight till their last hope (and is obvious that there is still such). The officers said that now they have no tracking devices as obviously those ships sacrifices for the others then Vader informs them they should find another way and he goes to the meditation room. Vader again is sitting without the mask this time looking not only to the Naboo artifact but also to Luke’s picture and we see Anakin Skywalker for the last time who says: ‘So, you didn’t inform the Emperor about Luke but we both know why’. ‘Why are you here?’ asks Vader without even trying to reject Anakin’s appearance. ‘You know why. Because you are the only one who can save my son from the Emperor. Because we both know what would happen if the Emperor knew the truth.’ . “And why should I care for your son?’ ‘Because is the only way to make me disappear. Because is the only way to forget the past. Save my son and you will never see me again’. As you can see, this is the explanation why we never see Anakin till the moment when he ‘takes’ the power in ROTJ. This statement “my son’ (and not 'our son') is deliberate, as Luke is indeed Anakin’s son, so Anakin is becoming powerful and awake (beginning of ROTJ) when he says openly to the Emperor: ‘my son is with them’. Is also important to mention that Anakin appears here only because Vader is very vulnerable (without the mask and so on), alone and shocked by his meeting with the past; still it doesn’t contradict OT as Anakin is seen by Vader as separate virtual person and the movies show how Anakin actually takes back his mind ad body form this dark persona. So, Anakin disappears and the scene cuts to Vader on the bridge explaining that he is not interested if anybody couldn’t find any traces of the smaller ships or not and if it is needed they should send probe droids in every unexplored place of the Outer Rim to find the Rebels. (Reference to TESB). Vader also says that is very important to find one particular ship, the Millennium Falcon as the ship is the key to the maybe most important person in this war. ‘Do we know his name sir', asks one of the officers. ‘I doubt so, but I know it very well’ says Vader going out of the bridge. But then we see him alone in the corridor saying to himself: Is Skywalker. …. Anakin Skywalker. The end. So, this is the story. Every criticism is very, very welcomed as this is very rough draft and it should be better in the end, right? I realize that we could ever see such or similar movie but anyways it could become a good SW legend with strong PT reference. |
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Post by tonyg on Jul 22, 2017 22:51:10 GMT
About Shmi. This idea for her sacrificing herself for her relatives fits completely in her character. It can be seen that Shmi wasn't born as slave, because she is strong person with free will and free soul, smooth yet resilient. I like this idea a lot.
Her father could look like Lor-San Tekka, why not? After all, the universe is huge may people look like each other.
It could be shown also that this with the trade slavers happens when Shmi is very young. So if Qui Gon meets her he also should be younger and maybe without Obi Wan still, as he is also very young (I mean a baby). But that is just an idea.
I think I also forgot to mention the propaganda version of Alderaan destruction, It should the last test of special protective shield for planets that have no local armies as Alderaan and it is against such terrorist groups as the Rebellion. The shield is effective is emulated by special big independent orbital stations so it doesn't need to be build. So when the Rebels sabotaged the test, the field collapsed and destroyed the planet. The Empire also promises that it would find the informers who gives the Rebels information about the test and the orbital station structure and will avenge the death of the innocent Alderaan citizens. I know it sounds perverse but this is the empire , after all.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Aug 1, 2017 13:54:33 GMT
I did the math and realized Lor San Tekka is a little younger than Shmi, so that idea won't work.  It was an attempt to reconcile some of the new characters since I didn't like TFA. I'm not sure if I should take the Disney ST into consideration or not. Quantum, would you be willing to,share some of your story ideas here? I would like to see them. And Tony, it's great seeing the process of Vader's transition into Anakin, very interesting. I'll add more details to my story and feedback to the conclusion to the Vader story when I get a chance. |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Aug 24, 2017 15:15:33 GMT
Alright, I finally have internet again, time to roll up the sleeves. First, I'll give some feedback on your compelling Vader story, Tony. Of course, remember these are just suggestions to be taken with as big a grain of salt as you want, I understand what it's like. I don't know about the rest of you, but for me, crafting a spinoff is for fun - but at the same time I'm serious about making it enjoyable and poignant. This is a very important story and your ideas are great, I like them better than the comics etc. And for starters, as far as feedback; you know, after all these decades of wondering about Vader's reaction and thoughts & feelings in the aftermath of the destruction of the Death Star, and after reading your synopsis, it is now occurring to me, in regards to his motivation for landing on Yavin: of course he would want to turn right around and head straight for the Rebel base, and not because he was unable to jump into hyperspace etc, but because he wants to discover the identity of the pilot who succeeded in this feat. Of course the first thought to cross his mind would be "I must find out who that was, immediately". The determination and the bravado seems to fit, haha. Or I don't know, these are just suggestions. And you mentioned Luke being spoken of as the son of the Jedi hero Anakin Skywalker. I always wondered when and if people started learning that fact. What always crossed my mind was the older members of the Alliance asking him if he is any relation to Anakin Skywalker the Jedi, and Luke saying "Yes, he knew Obi-Wan, who found me and led me to the Alliance" etc. And the older people telling Luke how great a man his father was. (However he never hears anything about Padme because nobody knew she was the mother). However, I imagine they would want to keep the fact of his lineage on the down-low because Jedi and Force-Sensitives are hunted and persecuted under the Imperial regime. And about Vader leaving with the rest of the Rebel fleet. This would be his best option, leaving solo (no pun intended) would attract too much attention. But I also wonder about him getting on his own small ship such as an X-Wing, the ground crew would see him in the cockpit when waving him through. And if he left alone without clearance he would be red-flagged. My idea would be for him to sneak onto a medium sized ship with the pilot(s) already on board, therefore he won't risk being seen. Then, once cleared for takeoff, and in flight, he kills the pilots and any crew members and takes the controls. This would also give the fans some action scenes earlier on, but not too much He then resets the coordinates to rendezvous with a nearby Imperial fleet, and I think it might work if he were to jump at the same time as the rebels or after they're all gone, so as not to attract attention. Or, perhaps he could take his mask off momentarily and radio the General telling him the hyperdrive needs repairs and they'll join up later. Like you said, I think it works, for several reasons, for him to decide to regroup and talk with Sidious first. And I like how Sidious has Vader go to Naboo as a test. You mentioned the Falcon was previously inspected on Naboo for suspected smuggling. I was wondering if you had more specific details on this. I think there would need to be a concrete reason for Han to have been on Naboo. If you have some, great, but if not I may have another suggestion. Perhaps whenever a Wookiee manages to escape slavery from the Empire, they are welcomed as clandestine refugees on Alderaan and Naboo. (This would also be a sweet tie-in to the Naberrie family's cause). With Palpatine's close ties with Naboo, he is just beginning to hear rumors of this trickling around, and one of his biggest leads is that a ship matching the description [of the Millennium Falcon] was at one time involved in an incident with Imperial authorities on Naboo in connection with suspected trafficking of wanted escapees. This is why he sends Vader to Naboo, as a test and also to make more progress on the investigation of wanted Wookiee slaves. I mean, otherwise, Naboo isn't exactly a hub for smuggling. And while investigating, Vader could discover that the underground Wookiee Refugee Campaign is set up in Padme's honor. Another thing; I'm not sure Han would name-drop Jabba to an authority during a questioning. You might have an idea in mind, but a way for Vader to connect Solo with Jabba would be for him to look further into the ship's history and learn it was the ship that set the Kessel Spice Run record, and that it was very recently boarded for suspected spice smuggling, but none was found - which can be linked to Jabba due to the bounty he placed on Solo's head shortly afterward. Or were you thinking of having that incident occur near Naboo? Again, this is all just thinking out loud. Also in ANH, the Imperial officer does tell Vader & Tarkin that the captured ship matches the description of the one seen fleeing Tatooine with the wanted droids. However, yes, they wouldn't connect it with Solo until they identified it. Also, I know Vader first plans to kill the doctor on Naboo so that he can't recount their meeting, but then decides not to, which is an important scene, but I wonder how Vader prevents the doctor from speaking about the encounter. Does Vader threaten or blackmail him? Did he inject him with truth serum while he's asleep? Or does the drug Vader use make him forget the experience? Also it is good that the doctor only saw and knew about one baby. This way Vader still only thinks there is one Skywalker child. So it's important that the doctor doesn't reveal the gender of the child. Also, earlier I asked if we would hear Vader's thoughts when he is encased in his mask. Your idea of having Anakin speak to him is great, and yes, more inline with SW tradition. But perhaps once or twice, while he's in his mask, and before he encounters Anakin, such as while on Yavin, and still sticking to SW tradition, we could hear what he knows The Emperor would say to him, like we hear when Anakin is in the Jedi Council room during Padme's rumination. For example, when he is deciding whether to to track the fleet leader or the Falcon. And about Sidious learning of Luke independently from Vader; this is a good point and needs to be addressed. Bottom line, I think the difference between Sidious & Vader is that Vader is the only one who is sure at first that Luke is indeed his son, because he is the only one that can feel it (and has Anakin confirming it). I like the idea of Sidous using a spy or an acolyte. I wouldn't think this plot line needs to be complicated however, as all it would take is for word to get around from the Alliance to leaks, etc. But, it should be a significant moment, so your idea of it being a part of this story works well. Even though I know only a little about Mara Jade, that does work well. Your idea of Sidious suspecting something works good. Perhaps Anakin appearing to Vader is causing a disturbance in the Force that Sidious feels, but doesn't understand. And I was also thinking perhaps Sidious sent his own person to investigate because he is losing faith in Vader after his failure to retrieve the stolen Death Star plans and in allowing his super weapon to be destroyed. Sidious merely thinks Vader's power is waning, but us fans know it is Anakin returning. And I wanted to know if you knew Lando's co-pilot was a Sullustan. In terms of a reference for natural and cultural aspects of the planet.  Anyways, another interesting thing about this story is; you know how people say "I watch Rogue One and ANH back-to-back", well this way they would be able to say they watch R1, ANH and this back-to-back-to-back.  But the funny thing is, how the one moment that gets skipped in this whole run is the one fanfic idea I ever officially came up with and declared publicly, even in one of our Skype convos: the moment between (what is now) R1 and ANH that didn't get shown, the moment Vader commands his admiral to follow the Tantive IV's trajectory and is informed that the Rebels are heading to Tatooine! My guess is it's safe to assume that after the Tantive IV jumped to lightspeed, Vader commed his Admiral and commanded, "If you can follow them along their trajectory to their destination Admiral, do so! I'll be back aboard the Executor momentarily." Then once aboard, trying to find some answers as to their intentions, he asks his Admiral where exactly they are headed. For obvious reasons he pauses for a moment when he hears they're on route to Tatooine. Trying to quell a surge of memories and emotions, Vader sinks into deep thought and meditation, though probably still on the bridge looking out the viewport. He is soon informed that they are about to exit hyperspace above Tatooine and is asked for further orders. Vader commands the Rebel ship's main reactor be disabled and a tractor beam locked onto them and to prepare for immediate boarding. Just earlier, Vader took on the rebels himself above Scarif. He should've seen to the boarding of Tantive IV personally, and immediately cut through the door himself, but in this moment of vulnerability, he paused but eventually had to order his troops to saw the door open themselves and begin the boarding process. After all, Vader is late for the boarding party, following his stormtroopers, not leading them. We even see the rebels squinting and waiting for the inevitable breaching of the door. This moment of hesitation, as brief as it was, is what bought Leia enough time to place the plans in R2 and record a message for Kenobi. The love Anakin had for his mother, and the pain of his past that made his heart ache for a second was part of the last bit of good in him. So these few extra seconds that saved the galaxy were in a way Shmi's last gift to the galaxy. Yeah, and it is the stirrings of Anakin that bring about the change in Vader, which Sidious senses as a weakness. It all starts when Vader's men inform him that Leia set the Tantine IV's course to depart for Tatooine. This is when Anakin begins to emerge from the ashes. |
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Post by tonyg on Aug 26, 2017 23:02:59 GMT
Great ideas ad feedback, thank you. I think this story is worth to be developed so, I'll add some details. First, about the attitude of other Rebels to Luke and his father. Yes, I think the older should know who Anakin Skywalker was as they remembered the colne wars (even if they were kids then, the heroes of the war should be famous, as even the novelization of ROTS confirms). So I think that is important for this story to clarify two things, or maybe three. First that officially Anakin Skywalker is dead (as the scene with the press material confirms) and second that maybe he has some relative alive and this relative (Luke) is Force sensitive. The third thing is what the official version of the Jedi massacre in the Temple (the Jedi who were war generals were killed for the Rebellion but the young padawans?) I think the version in which some Jedi stayed loyal to the Republic and being killed by the rebels could explain why the people even in Corsucant wasn't interested on rebuild the Order or investigate the death of the younglings so the Order past into legends and memories only for 20 years. I think that where is sneaking in the hangar of the Rebel base Vader should hear some mechanics (younger and older) to talk about the thing everyone there is talking in the last hours: the Death Star destruction and who did it. One of them should say something like: Is true that the kid that blew up the Death Star, this Luke is really a Jedi? I though they disspeared long time ago. - He is not a Jedi but his father was. Have you never heard of the hero without fear, Anakin Skywalker? Luke is his son -I was very young when the Clone wars began and I don't remember much but could the Jedi have children at all? I think was forbidden for them even to fall in love -Well, yes, but obviously this one had. I'm sure the kid is not lying about his father as Luke was found by Obi Wan Kenobi himself and even you should know who he is' - Obi Wan survived the clone Wars? I thought all the Jedi were killed then. - Well, it is impossible eve for the Empire to do this, you know. Or something like that. I think this is enough to explain why Vader so obsesively looks for more proofs that he indeed has a son and in the end that he didin't kill Padme. I never before thought that Vader trying to go back to the Emperor inmediately after the Yavin's battle could be see as weakness (not only by Sidious part but also by himself); I though that he is just forced to land on Yavin with no other options, but you are right. With or without other options, Vader should find out something or he is lost. I mean, is obvious that is Tarkin desicion to go after the Rebels (while Vader suggested it, is Tarkin who takes the desicions about the Death Star, but Vader would never regain his positions if he don't have something to bring to the Emperor: in this case he could track the Rebellion's fleet and that is something important (apart of his plan to attack the Rebellion through propaganda tricks). About vader going on Naboo, you gave me also an interesting idea with the refugee camp. But first, I have to say that all this comes from Vader, not from Emperor's part. When Vader learns the about his son on Yavin, all his actions are dedicated to this oly goal: to find if it is true or not. So, generally we could could the story The searching for Luke Skywalker. And since the moment that he hears this conversation in the hangar of Yavin he do everything to find out the true. He first hide all this from the Emperor which is considerable change in Vader. Also, all that happens is Vader initiative not Emperor's that is also a change. Vader is fixed to find the proof of existance of his offspring and he feels that it could be found only on Naboo, so he needs a good excuse to go there and this excuse is the searching of the then unidentified Corellian cargo ship that cares two of the most wanted men by the Empire. So the conversation with the Emperor should contain something like this. After Vader explains that these particular Rebels should be hunted down and put to public process, the Emperor agrees and says: Are you sure that you can identify this ship when you see it, lord Vader? -yes, my master, the ship that hit me in the battle is the same ship that bring Obi Wan in the Death Star. -Yes, but in the Outer Rim there are millions of old Corellian cargo ships that do smuggling. - Even these ships should stop somewhere for fuel and rest so the local spaceports should contain such information in their archives. And if this ship flies in that part of the Outer Rim, there is only one place in the Empire that could contain such information. - yes, indeed, is only one place, but are ready to go there , lord Vader? After all these years? - This would be a test, my master. -Yes, you are right, it is indeed a test. Then go there and be strong, lord Vader. -The Nabooan still support this refugee camp for those who want to leave the chaos of the outer Rim. After all, the Empire should be generous, isn't it? So, yes, it is good start to begin. But remember, your first priority is to destroy the Rebellion: with or without catching these particular Rebels. -I understand, my master. So Vader goes to Naboo presuming to identify the name of the ship but actually searching for proofs about Luke's birth. i think this should be the holographic image in Padme's tomb that hits him in the heart.  I have some other ideas to post, but I'll write it later. But this about Shmi gift for the universe, is just brilliant. Yes, I want also to show the turmoil in his soul and why Vader never came back to Tattoine after the tragic events of AOTC and now he is practically forced to that. P.S. I didn’t know that the Lando copilot is from Sullust. I read somewhere that the surviving Alderaans wet to Sullust where they had something as colony so I though that the planet was uninhabited before them but obviously it wasn’t that way. |
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Post by tonyg on Aug 28, 2017 21:33:38 GMT
P.S. About 'hearing' Vader 's thoughts, now I see what you mean and I agree: we could hear his thoughts as part of conversation he would have with others (not only with Anakin). It was used in ROTS, so it fits in the universe.
About the conversation with the doctor on Naboo: I have two goals here: first, to show how the memory of Padme changes Vader ( first, Anakin appears and second he refuses to kill) and to fill something that is like plot hole to me in ANH. When Vader interrogates Leia, most fans think it was physical torture, I disagree for several reasons, two are obvious: first, Lea look exactly the same after the interrogation (just compare her to Han in TESB who looked awful) and second if Vader had no prejudice to torture women he would do the same in TESB ad torture her instead of Han (is obvious why Luke could feel her even harder). So my version that fits more to the story is that the droid (seen in ANH) had serum that makes the interrogated person controllable and also made him/her think it wasn't real (as it was a dream0. It is easy to show this effect ( if someone find the doctor later he could say that had the most peculiar dream) but is important to show that Vader cannot do anything really bad on Naboo for obvious reasons.
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Post by tonyg on Aug 29, 2017 17:36:10 GMT
P.P.S. Some little remarks that I forgot. First, about the searching of the Millenium Falcon. Vader knows that there is a ship that probably was on Tattoine, that Obi Wan used this ship to come to the Death Star and the same ship damaged his fighter in the battle of Yavin, but Vader obviously doesn't know anything about the ship. If he could identify the Millennium Falcon trough the description of the stormtroopers in Tattoine maybe he would know that the ship contains the plans of the Death Star when the ship was on the Death Star. Obviously he doesn't know that although he suspects that there is something about the ship (and he ordered the scan). So, my theory is that the stormtroopers of Tattoine reported that the droids escaped with unidentified cargo ship (and the insufficient information was the reason that he dismissed them). So, the most important thing is to identify the ship (and he does it in Naboo) and then search for it. By the way, I have several ideas why Han could pass trough Naboo. Although Naboo is not a hub for smuggling or maybe because of this is more safe passage of the Imperial territory (if someone is smart enough not to attract attention). But indeed your idea is better; if there is refugee camp (including for wookies) there are more reasons for this ship to go there. Also, if there is a refugee camp, smuggling is unavoidable, no mater how good the intentions of the locals are. Of course Han would never drop Jabba's name but even if he say that the official cargo (as the smuggling cargo was never found) is for Tattoine or something near by , Vader would know whom to ask about this pilot. My idea is that Han is never accused for smuggling, only checked once but with no success but that is enough to leave a little trace in the Imperial records. Second, about the spy. I think it is the obvious option to explain how Palpatine knows what he knows in TESB. I know that many fans would choose the lazy explanation of the almighty Sith lord but apart from being lazy it is illogical: why Palpatine learns this exactly in this moment (between ANH and TESB) and not before? Also the version of the spy fits more in what is presented in ROTJ: that Palpatine is very well informed what are the internal affairs of the Rebellion. Also, this is Palpatine‘s style: he succeeds as he doesn‘t rely on only one source (in this case Vader) and also, as you said, despite of the brilliant plan that Vader proposed the Emperor maybe feels that something is going on. I neither think that the spy storyline should be central; we need only 2 brief moments with him/her (I think it is better to be a woman, whoever the spy would be). The first one is when the task is given: the main purpose is to go after Vader and search for additional information if there is such; and the second one is when the spy reports to the Emperor: the main goal of this scene is to show that the spy saw Luke and could understand something about it and Vader couldn‘t, so the spy confirms what Vader officially said to the Emperor: that he learned the name of the ship and its crew but nothing particular about the boy who came with Obi Wan. This would also confirm what Vader said in the beginning of TESB about Luke (‘he is just a boy‘ and so on). Third: the mourn of the twins. I think this also should be presented briefly and even indirectly but is needed to reveal that neither Luke or Leia are emotionless and they care a lot about their relatives, even it is possible to show that it happens simultaneously as part of the symbolic connection between them: they both are orphans and the only thing left that they have is the Rebellion (all changes for Luke in Hoth but this is later). |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Oct 20, 2017 15:15:49 GMT
Well, that's not what I meant, but it's probably true. What I was inferring was Palpatine would see Vader as weak by sensing the remnants of Anakin stirring within him; such as in the moments he is reluctant above Tatooine and when considering the possibility that he has a son. but you have a point, too.
And thanks for clarifying that Vader went to Naboo on his own, I thought you meant Palpatine sent him there as a test. But no, he saw it as a test after Vader suggested it, yeah that works better.
Also, I was thinking, right around the same time Vader is learning about Luke, Luke is learning who it was who killed Ben; Darth Vader, the man who he thinks killed his father. and he's most likely hearing it from Leia.
And as a related (no pun intended) side note: I find it so poetic that Luke first sees Leia (in holographic form), which is their first reunion of sorts, in the garage, where Anakin made his terrible confession to Padme in the wake of his mother's death; the events that created a possible path of downfall for him and that ultimately did. And where Padme had a moment of deep compassion for him, which she maintained until the end. She was his saving grace, and it's only fitting that this is where Luke first lays eyes on his sister and the path of redemption for the Skywalker family begins. Just another one of the harmonious synchronous moments that make Star Wars great.
So, it's fitting that you have Vader discovering Luke's drawing in the garage as well.
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It was an attempt to reconcile some of the new characters since I didn't like TFA. I'm not sure if I should take the Disney ST into consideration or not.