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Post by Pyrogenic on Oct 5, 2021 22:23:13 GMT
I just checked the runtimes of my digital copies...
The Matrix - 2:16:18
The Phantom Menace - 2:16:20
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 5, 2021 22:39:54 GMT
I just checked the runtimes of my digital copies... The Matrix - 2:16:18 The Phantom Menace - 2:16:20 The Matrix The Menace Two seconds' difference? "Phantom" is two syllables long. A phantom in the matrix. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Dec 20, 2021 23:07:23 GMT
Did I imply in my OP that I knew a new Matrix film was being made?! What the heck. This Resurrections trailer has really crept up on me. I'd no idea a film was even coming out this year, I only watched the trailer last week. Maybe it's this pandemic, maybe I'm loosing my memory, maybe it's that I don't pay the same attention to movie news any more (who does?) I've got mixed feelings: on the one hand, I'm really excited to see all these familiar images returning; on the other hand, isn't it curious that this film is arriving just as Keanu's career is in a renaissance? The guy is like the "king of all internet nerds", if there was one. If the filmmakers are indeed here for a plain cash grab, then hey, you gotta at least credit them for the timing. Or, perhaps not, if most of their audience are going to be prevented from seeing this in cinema - the coronavirus would appear to be on a resurrection of its own. These things always deserve the big screen treatment, no matter how good the quality ends up. The original film was a philosophical tour de force, dressed up as an action movie, which delightfully weaved together traditions of East and West; I consider it a masterpiece. Can the feat be repeated? Well, the first trailer looks very action-heavy to me, that's not what I really want. I will be - sensibly this time - going to see it with very low expectations, it's not like the Wachowskis have been pumping out smash hits since 2003, they've been quite under the radar - by design it would appear. I still find myself bamboozled as to how this 4th Matrix didn't come out years ago. The first internet forums I ever lurked at were discussions of The Matrix trilogy, and they were hopping during the 2000s. It is unusual that reboot crazy Hollywood they have so late to the party here, as whether right or wrong, there's been a noticeable appetite out there for more. Could it be that they were simply spending all this time on rewrites? That would be my hunch, they must know that they can't bring this hit back without some purpose.
The overwhelming level of hype going in the 2nd Star Wars trilogy hardly did it any favours, perhaps the lack of it here will work to the Matrix's advantage. If, however Matrix 4 gets the seal of approval from fans, expect the expectations for 5 to go through the roof.
I think we must all resist the temptation to pit The Matrix and Star Wars mythologies against one another in a duel to the death (note that I refuse to use the corporate jargon of "franchise" here). I know we're on a hardcore Star Wars forum, so we have a bias, but are we not better than petty one-upmanship? We're prequel fans, we're suppose to be more drawn to deeper, thematically rich films; why must be choose when we can love both? The truth is that that their directors share a lot in common in their rebukes of Hollywood, scorning of the critics in the press, insistence on both action and ideas in a film, and general shunning of the spotlight or reluctance to get on camera. Whilst I love how Tarantino can spent hour after hour in discourse on his films, there is something definitely to be admired in the director who lets his/her work do the talking.
We surely can, however, explore the parallels between the trilogies, there are both onions of endless layers. That seems to be the path the previous commenters are on. In that spirit, I think it might be best if we disallow spoilers for the new film here. For the time being anyway.
If some of you guys know about crew members who worked on both trilogies, you will have to contribute. It would be cool to hear these perspectives, no matter what their experiences were feel free to add links.
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Post by jppiper on Dec 20, 2021 23:09:19 GMT
ArchdukeOfNabooso-called critics are calling it the boldest sequel since TLJ
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Dec 20, 2021 23:19:05 GMT
ArchdukeOfNaboo so-called critics are calling it the boldest sequel since TLJ
We're not launching into a debate over what the critics think. You seem to be implying that we've got another war on our hands, when many of us don't even want to be soldiers.
Also, please bare in mind: the "so-called critics" don't always agree with each other. They're reviews aren't checked with each other in advance of publication.
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Post by Ingram on Dec 21, 2021 0:14:44 GMT
I'll be seeing it Wednesday, and if I do post some initial thoughts then I'll be sure to avoid spoilers, as I have with No Time to Die and Dune.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Dec 21, 2021 1:11:29 GMT
Ingram I do like how Pryo and Cryo have started a trend on making parallels between the series. I feel that a discussion of the new film, as much as I'd enjoy digging in, could end up railroading the whole structure of this thread, especially if it's divisive and does some serious retconning like TROS. The title of this thread does include trilogy, so I'm inclined to want to focus on those.
What was your experience of seeing the films for the first time, may I ask? Did the hype for Reloaded and Revolutions resemble any of the waiting periods for a Star Wars? I was too young to really be into the films at the time. Were you disappointed, satisfied or otherwise by the ending? For the directors, letting the viewers come to their own interpretation was very important, do you have any unique perspectives to share with us on the story?
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Post by Ingram on Dec 21, 2021 21:36:17 GMT
What was your experience of seeing the films for the first time, may I ask? Did the hype for Reloaded and Revolutions resemble any of the waiting periods for a Star Wars? I was too young to really be into the films at the time. Were you disappointed, satisfied or otherwise by the ending? For the directors, letting the viewers come to their own interpretation was very important, do you have any unique perspectives to share with us on the story?
Not really any stories, no. Just anecdotal stuff.
My senior year in high school was coming to a close and thus, senior presentational-projects aside (do they still do those?), the curriculum was giving over to scheduled social activities, graduation prep etc. So when The Matrix was released on the 31st of March, a Wednesday, I skipped out during lunch-hour and rode over to the theater for an early matinee showing. I was entertained; I felt then and there the movie was three-at-once the next logical step after Blade, the organic accumulation of all things 90s sci-fi anime/internet-based cyberpunk then superimposed over the blueprints of '70s Wuxia...and...it's own thing, it's own voice, as there was still a touch of the Wachowskis' indie-neo-noir carried over from Bound, both visually and in the writing style.
I fell not head-over-heels with the film, but I recognized its place; in generic terms, I thought "Huh, that's pretty cool."
The teaser trailer for Reloaded premiered ahead the midnight opening for Attack of the Clones in may of 2002, a full year prior to its release. I remember this because opening night for Episode II was still during the camp-out era of Star Wars and the theater was packed, the environment festive, everyone was wired. It was basically like a concert. So when said trailer kicked in -- the first glimpse of a sequel to something that, at the time, had racked up some serious pop-zeitgeist cred -- there were many a gasps and elations. The actual movie a year later?
Well, the Wachowskis pulled a 1-2 punch with Reloaded in May and Revolutions in November (long before the MCU) and the average response from one to the other was head-scratching for critics and something of a burnout for general audiences. I myself technically remember seeing those movies in theaters but not much else regarding first impressions, save for feeling glazed over by the enormity of their food portions, both with spectacle and concerning the Wachowskis' quixotic indulgences. Yet I didn't have any hype or lofty expectations going in either, only formal curiosity. No horse in the race, point being. Therefore I didn't walk away with any lasting negatives. It was a thing that happened, and then it was over.
Years later I would slowly reinvest in the trilogy with 20/20 hindsight.
It's pretty goddamn good.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Dec 22, 2021 3:34:00 GMT
I saw the 2nd trailer for Resurrections last night, and boy was I impressed. The 1st one was a little bland, if I'll be honest, there was no emotional pull. I'm pumped. And I'm so glad Carrie-Anne Moss is returning, she was the heart of the original trilogy in many ways. And to my mind, was even more beautiful in the real world than the simulation. I suppose this was due to the lighting in Zion, with all those shades of golden yellow and brown, whereas the Matrix itself was heavily sepia tinged. I am concerned about the lack of Laurence Fisbourne returning, I think he was easily the best actor of the 3 in the original trilogy. I've also been reacquainted with Matrix bros lately, which reminds me that... I do sympathise with Cryogenic's annoyance with hardcore Matrix fans who think this is the sh*t, distils all knowledge, and that any other action film is just childish babble. This attitude is reminiscent of the OT fanboys, in that they're so obnoxious in their obsession with a film, that they actually damage other people's appreciation for it. Newsflash: consciousness and the nature of reality have been explored in dramatic works for centuries, try not to think you're special for exploring them in 1999. If this forum and discussions on Naboo News are anything to by, there is a hell of a lot of depth in the prequels too. I love The Matrix trilogy, but a bit of humility does go a long way. You can have all the philosophy and cerebral commentary that you want, and still have a mediocre story. Films are a form of storytelling, they are not works of non-fiction - this is something the Matrix bros don't seem to understand. Time has proved Return of the Jedi to have a near-perfect ending, whilst we don't even have a positive response to Revolutions ending (it's had plenty time now!), and what is a trilogy that cannot conclude properly? Unfortunately, this will always be the Wackowskis films' Achilles Heal. You can brag about the first one being phenomenal, but I'm afraid Star Wars can do that too, and actually has a satisfying end.
That's enough of me bashing the Matrix. We're definitely going to need 2 different threads, one for a deep dive into the "original trilogy" & Star Wars parallels, another for arguing over the new film and any grievances.
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Post by Ingram on Apr 11, 2023 3:44:34 GMT
I could've posted this elsewhere in one of our sillier threads. Perhaps I should have. However, I propose the following: watch this video not (entirely) as a joke, but in earnest.
Having just sat down again with both the trilogy and its misshapen 2021 re-sequel-boot, the above only drives home for me just how much I've grown to adore these films over the years. I faulted the OMT back during its initial run. Faulted it then for being too contemporary and fetishistic for my retro-centric tastes. Never hated it by any stretch; even then I respected its place. I simply never nakedly embraced it as did so many others, my age bracket in particular. The affair has since come back around in a new light. I won't claim to know Auralnauts' intention with the above video-riff but in terms of its affect on myself, far from mocking the trilogy, it only further exaggerates with playfulness the committed, unwavering, guilt-free maximum cool that makes those films so endearing. It's a trilogy that believes in itself with a conviction that, along with LOTR and Lucas' Prequels, we haven't seen since, save only for Snyder's tripple run with Superman. It's almost bizarre watching The Matrix or either of its sequels next to a modern Marvel product or Disney+ triviality etc.
Frankly, Keanu as Neo and Carrie-Anne as Trinity rapping their transcendental MC prowess shuts down the whole fucking conversation—diversity hires making standalone Rey movies and DC's latest devolution with that Blue Beetle trailer? Who gives a shit anymore. Neo just flexed a high kick stance as proof of his composure in times of getting loose, magnetized by the mic when kicking his juice.
These movies are as great as they are goofy and vice versa. Reloaded is probably the weakest as a nodal exposition piece while still pulling off some gracefully staged frenzy and maintaining a larger dramatic/world-building integrity. The '99 original will forever hold its own novelty with that mix of wuxia, cyberpunk and noir. Revolutions is just straight up an epic sci-fi vista banger comprising of the war between Zion and sentinels along with our heroes' flight to the Machine Source; once Neo Christ strolls into Smith City, you kinda just have to throw up your hands and go along for the ride.
Also, yes, Wilford Brimley was in those movies. You guys are just remembering it wrong.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Apr 11, 2023 4:21:43 GMT
I always liked Revolutions. Been thinking about these movies lately. We really do live in "the Matrix".
Reloaded isnt even that bad. It just has some goofy moments (like the tacked-on cliffhanger) and some dated-looking CG people.
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Post by smittysgelato on Apr 11, 2023 4:22:42 GMT
Dark City and The Truman Show obviously make great companion pieces to The Matrix Trilogy.
EDIT: And Ghost in the Shell. How could I forget!?
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Apr 14, 2023 1:22:25 GMT
I am concerned about the lack of Laurence Fisbourne returning, I think he was easily the best actor of the 3 in the original trilogy.
What an absolute shitshow, the 4th Matrix was. I'm surprised I don't have a rant written down about it here, I'm sure I did somewhere, maybe on another thread.
It was TROS level bad. Everything single thing that could go wrong, did go wrong.
Nasty experience that makes one loose hope in cinema.
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Post by smittysgelato on Apr 14, 2023 2:35:06 GMT
I am concerned about the lack of Laurence Fisbourne returning, I think he was easily the best actor of the 3 in the original trilogy.
What an absolute shitshow, the 4th Matrix was. I'm surprised I don't have a rant written down about it here, I'm sure I did somewhere, maybe on another thread.
It was TROS level bad. Everything single thing that could go wrong, did go wrong.
Nasty experience that makes one loose hope in cinema.
I mostly watch older movies now, haha. There are exceptions of course. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Apr 14, 2023 4:22:46 GMT
IngramI was perusing the director's IMDB and it is clear she has quite a political background in feminist activism. Now I am wondering if Rey rebuilding the Jedi Order and the people who try to stop her is going to be an allegory for the building of a feminist society and the pesky reactionaries who try to sabotage it. Maybe my imagination is getting away from me here, but I wouldn't completely disregard this as a possibility.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Oct 16, 2023 0:41:33 GMT
Interesting how Neo faces a dilemma similar to Luke's in TESB. Twice in fact.
In the first film, Neo must decide if she should remain onboard the Nebuchadnezzar and leave Morpheus in the Matrix to die at the hands of Agent Smith. The crew thinks Neo should stay and sacrifice Morpheus since he is the One, destined to save mankind, in fact, it's what Morpheus himself would want.
Thinking he's not the One, just an ordinary guy, he decides to honor friendship and go back to rescue Morpheus.
Then in Reloaded, when learning the truth of the Matrix and the purpose of the One from the Architect, Neo must choose between saving mankind and saving just Trinity. Which is similar also to Anakin's self-made dilemma.
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 16, 2023 1:27:07 GMT
Interesting how Neo faces a dilemma similar to Luke's in TESB. Twice in fact. In the first film, Neo must decide if she should remain onboard the Nebuchadnezzar and leave Morpheus in the Matrix to die at the hands of Agent Smith. The crew thinks Neo should stay and sacrifice Morpheus since he is the One, destined to save mankind, in fact, it's what Morpheus himself would want. Thinking he's not the One, just an ordinary guy, he decides to honor friendship and go back to rescue Morpheus. Then in Reloaded, when learning the truth of the Matrix and the purpose of the One from the Architect, Neo must choose between saving mankind and saving just Trinity. Which is similar also to Anakin's self-made dilemma. This dilemma was revisited again on Ahsoka when Sabine has to choose between risking Thrawn's return (which would cause another war) or leaving Ezra stranded on Peridea. |
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Post by Somny on Oct 16, 2023 4:43:05 GMT
Then in Reloaded, when learning the truth of the Matrix and the purpose of the One from the Architect, Neo must choose between saving mankind and saving just Trinity. Which is similar also to Anakin's self-made dilemma. I immediately summarized this part of the film to my parents upon getting picked up from an IMAX screening of the film 20 years ago. This curious dilemma made me hyper-aware of how bound we are to our selfish desires and attachments; perhaps for the first time in my life. |
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Post by tonyg on Oct 16, 2023 9:47:18 GMT
Interesting how Neo faces a dilemma similar to Luke's in TESB. Twice in fact. In the first film, Neo must decide if she should remain onboard the Nebuchadnezzar and leave Morpheus in the Matrix to die at the hands of Agent Smith. The crew thinks Neo should stay and sacrifice Morpheus since he is the One, destined to save mankind, in fact, it's what Morpheus himself would want. Thinking he's not the One, just an ordinary guy, he decides to honor friendship and go back to rescue Morpheus. Then in Reloaded, when learning the truth of the Matrix and the purpose of the One from the Architect, Neo must choose between saving mankind and saving just Trinity. Which is similar also to Anakin's self-made dilemma. This dilemma was revisited again on Ahsoka when Sabine has to choose between risking Thrawn's return (which would cause another war) or leaving Ezra stranded on Peridea. In both cases, I mean Luke in TESB and Neo in Matrix 1 (the only one that matters for me) the protagonists choose right and they choose right because they reject their self importance (being the one/the last hope) and choose the importance of others instead of theirs. Maybe this looks like radical interpretation but it matters to them as human beings: because if they sacrifice the ones that matter to them, then why bother to save anyone? Of course, saving the significant one for the price of everyone (not everything) is not an option, but this is not their situation, is the choice that Anakin faces. They have to choose between themselves and their self importance (yes, for a noble cause,but still...) and their friends. Luke chooses right and so chooses Neo. There are two important details here. First, no one of them knows (for sure)that they they are what the other claim they are. Not Neo nor Luke are fully convinced if they are so much important but they are convinced that they have to save somebody that is important not only for them but for the cause.Also, they do not sacrifice others in this feat. Ok, Neo goes with Trinity but she volunteered and Luke goes by himself, alone. So, the choice is right. Do they know that they will survive? Not at all but they instead will die trying. |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Oct 19, 2023 10:38:12 GMT
Yeah, it seems in this genre of stories, the source of any given prophecy would want the heroes to be the kind of people that would honor things like friendship and love. I mean, why bother saving the universe if nobody cares about or helps each other?
The driving force behind a prophecy in most tales is to get the hero into a place where they learn about themsleves and strengthen their own character so that they can decide on their own to do the right thing because they personally want to, regardless of the prophecy. They need to become an exemplary being with the understanding of what makes us human to act on behalf of all of them.
Temet Nosce
Most Chosen Ones in ancient myths and modern stories are half higher power, half human who have to get in touch with the essence of both natures.
The way it seems to me, it wasn't until Neo died in the Matrix and came back to life that he realized his full potential. So it could be safe to say, going back to get Morpheus was a sort of test of character for him.
Anakin's biggest strength and motivation in life was to protect his loved ones. Palpatine knew this and used Anakin's drives to sway him towards the dark side. Consumed by fear and greed, he failed in his purpose. It wasn't until RotJ that he finally got to have the best of both worlds, protecting his loved ones with a sacrificial love and restoring the balance by destroying the Sith.
Anakin had the right motivations, but had to find the strength of character and balance within himself as well.
And another commonality between Anakin and Neo that's both similar and different is how they both have dreams of what seems to be their partner dying. These two characters were in very different circumstances, with different narratives, but still, what's interesting is how for Neo, taking the risk to try to use his powers to save Trinity ended up being a step in the right direction, but for Anakin it was a step in the wrong direction.
The thing with Neo though was, it wasn't quite as simple as saving humanity, more specifically it was keeping them alive but kept in the cycle of slavery. But then again, they'd at least be alive to fight another time. Oh the conundrums.
Also, Neo did technically possess the power to bring people back to life, at least inside the Matrix. But did he already know that?
But how these stories tie together is, I think Neo had to have the character to care deeply about his loved ones, but still be in a place where he can let go when nature takes its course and move on to a sacrificial love for all humanity. Which he does near the end of Revolutions.
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