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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jan 12, 2020 3:11:45 GMT
Something makes me think there's a looooong discussion of The Matrix trilogy to be had and thrashed out with that meta-obsessed, bot-loving, adorer of all things esoteric, Pyrogenic , who might well even be viewing this site through a virtual machine of his own. If this forum is anything to go on, he sure does like borrowing - dare I say, indulging in? - analogies from these classics. Could they even be his favourite ever films? I bet they are! I started a Star Wars blog last month, and lately been pondering the idea of covering a few other films that interest me. Because boy, have I got so much to say about these ones. There was a time, believe it or not, when I had little to say about Star Wars, and everything to say about Neo, Trinity, Morpheus, Smith, the Machines and, of course, the character behind that most condescending and smarter-than-thou of monologues I once took so much joy out of imitating: the Architect! Indeed, in the mid-late 2000s you could call me obsessed. So, forget Annihilation, and all other cheap sci-fi knockoffs... "Welcome to the real world"Welcome to The Matrix: Rebooted (well, discussion-wise and in time for Matrix 4, that is!)
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jan 13, 2020 14:39:49 GMT
Interesting timing. This guy makes great videos and literally right after I finally got around to watching his one on The Matrix I clicked to this forum to see this thread.
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Post by Pyrogenic on Jan 13, 2020 22:33:13 GMT
The Matrix and Star Wars formed a symbiotic relationship as my co-favorites that, in my mental space, threw me off guard for a moment back in like 2009 (or sometime around then) and that has never left me since…a splinter in my mind, driving me mad, perhaps? It was actually the day AVATAR came out, which is sort of important, too, but…anyway! There is actually an insane story to all of this, some a bit too personal to share in a public forum, but one of the initial thoughts triggered by the, sort of, IDK, “anomaly,” that I experienced was that the movies were conceptually “behind each other,” like the two rings of a Venn diagram barely touching on their edges or something. It could be thought of as my initiation into something like magic or WHATEVER you want to call the weird philosophy I cooked up. Sort of not kidding? I keep saying something like “something like…” BECAUSE this thing I encountered has still not been able to be integrated into my psychic plane as a single worded concept. It’s like each thing as a manifestation of one thing, with hyper-specific nuances that can affect any subject. A real idea of hidden messages and quoted messages and stuff. The Matrix movies contain lots of really perfect metaphors for everything. You’re right, there’s a lot to say. BUT! It’s less about the plots and characters and more the ideas of the movies as meta-movies and the concepts involved that affect all of cinema. Like, for example…movies as hackable, movies as code, movies as AVATARS, movies as input fields, movies as A.I., movies as alternate reality games, movies as *insert thing here*, etc. You get the idea, but it can be explored and interpreted endlessly…fine gems embedded in fine textures and the like! Super-schizophrenia-inducing-microcosms, hooray!
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Post by Alexrd on Jan 14, 2020 16:29:58 GMT
I'm a fan of The Matrix. I didn't really like Revolutions that much, but I respect it as the conclusion of the story.
The Matrix has a lot of thematic similarities with Star Wars. Not only did it came out around the same time as one of its trilogies, but it has recurring christian/buddhist philosophies in it. And, of course, Campbell's hero's journey.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Feb 6, 2020 8:29:17 GMT
One thing I've always wondered is how did Smith get into Bane's brain? Fictional movie or not, I'm still curious about the mechanics of it, How is a computer code able to cross over and integrate with organic material?
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Post by Alexrd on Feb 6, 2020 9:38:42 GMT
I guess the headjack is a two way street. When plugged in, the brain is connected to the Matrix, but no other program behaved like a virus and took over your mental projection (aka digital avatar). Smith did that before Bane was unplugged, so when he returned to the real world, his mind was taken over by Smith.
At least that's how I interpreted that.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Feb 8, 2020 1:37:50 GMT
I'm curious as to what are some of the general aspects people found they didn't like about Reloaded and Revolutions.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Feb 8, 2020 21:26:22 GMT
I'm curious as to what are some of the general aspects people found they didn't like about Reloaded and Revolutions. i kinda liked Revolutions. The whole diversity thing was particularly heavy-handed and condescending. That's kind of what they do though I guess. Reloaded had some fake-looking CGI characters, especially the rooftop Neo vs 100 Agent Smiths sequence. The rave/sex scene is just plain ridiculous, but again, this is who the filmmakers are. Other than that, they are a pretty interesting double-sequel to the Matrix.
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Post by Cryogenic on Feb 8, 2020 22:33:36 GMT
I'm curious as to what are some of the general aspects people found they didn't like about Reloaded and Revolutions. i kinda liked Revolutions. The whole diversity thing was particularly heavy-handed and condescending. That's kind of what they do though I guess. Reloaded had some fake-looking CGI characters, especially the rooftop Neo vs 100 Agent Smiths sequence. The rave/sex scene is just plain ridiculous, but again, this is who the filmmakers are. Other than that, they are a pretty interesting double-sequel to the Matrix. It's a fascinating film trilogy; or more like a self-contained opener followed by a sort-of tacked-on duology. Although, one can make a similar claim for the Star Wars trilogies, to varying degrees. However, the Wachowskis unfortunately view Star Wars as popcorn-munching space-trash, while their blockbusters are -- of course -- serious, mind-expanding works of cinema with genuine philosophical/existential depths: (Pyro and I previously discussed this and I'm shamelessly grabbing this link from our former conversation about it) "And this was like a strange phenomenon that you could suddenly look at something and then have different eyes and see it again and understand it in a completely different way. And that is *not true* for something like Star Wars. You see Star Wars and then you see it again and it's the same. And the only thing that happens is that your relationship to the excitement diminishes. And that's, I think, the difference between entertainment and art."The sycophantic interviewer is no help. He just mindlessly affirms Lana Wachowski's strong, doorstep-shitting statements. It's not even clear if she's talking about the original film or the entire saga or what. No delineation from Lana. And not a moment's probing from the interviewer. What she says is just accepted and acceded to as stone-cold fact. I know... This post is a little off-topic, but... It's pretty bad form to put down the work of another in such a contested industry. No tact. She just outright names Star Wars and slams it. Something about stones and those in glass houses. She also advances a false dichotomy. There's nothing to say you can't have entertainment and art both. The way she implies The Matrix films are art and Star Wars is just entertainment is pretty grating; not to mention pretentious as hell. I guess I'm saying this because there's always been something that's registered to me a little bit "off" about The Matrix movies. I actually prefer "Speed Racer". And heck, given how colourful and digital and delightfully absurd that movie's presentational ethic is (the same cinematographer as the PT is used: David Tattersall), you might think the Wachowskis (and yes: Andy/Lilly bashes Star Wars in the above clip, too) would be a little more open and charitable. Then again, the prequels gave The Matrix sequels a thumping at the box office, and their other movies have struggled to find a similar audience, while Star Wars (despite some bumps in the road) continues to thrive... Never underestimate the power of the green-eyed monster... I mean, I do have some sympathy for them. They strive hard not to give people the same experience twice. So I can see where Lana is coming from in her remarks. Star Wars is more formulaic. But the whole is also greater than the sum. Possibly a truth (albeit generous/subjective) that eludes them where a rival franchise that has taken the western world by storm is concerned...
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Post by Pyrogenic on Feb 10, 2020 19:52:53 GMT
i kinda liked Revolutions. The whole diversity thing was particularly heavy-handed and condescending. That's kind of what they do though I guess. Reloaded had some fake-looking CGI characters, especially the rooftop Neo vs 100 Agent Smiths sequence. The rave/sex scene is just plain ridiculous, but again, this is who the filmmakers are. Other than that, they are a pretty interesting double-sequel to the Matrix. It's a fascinating film trilogy; or more like a self-contained opener followed by a sort-of tacked-on duology. Although, one can make a similar claim for the Star Wars trilogies, to varying degrees. However, the Wachowskis unfortunately view Star Wars as popcorn-munching space-trash, while their blockbusters are -- of course -- serious, mind-expanding works of cinema with genuine philosophical/existential depths: (Pyro and I previously discussed this and I'm shamelessly grabbing this link from our former conversation about it) "And this was like a strange phenomenon that you could suddenly look at something and then have different eyes and see it again and understand it in a completely different way. And that is *not true* for something like Star Wars. You see Star Wars and then you see it again and it's the same. And the only thing that happens is that your relationship to the excitement diminishes. And that's, I think, the difference between entertainment and art."The sycophantic interviewer is no help. He just mindlessly affirms Lana Wachowski's strong, doorstep-shitting statements. It's not even clear if she's talking about the original film or the entire saga or what. No delineation from Lana. And not a moment's probing from the interviewer. What she says is just accepted and acceded to as stone-cold fact. I know... This post is a little off-topic, but... It's pretty bad form to put down the work of another in such a contested industry. No tact. She just outright names Star Wars and slams it. Something about stones and those in glass houses. She also advances a false dichotomy. There's nothing to say you can't have entertainment and art both. The way she implies The Matrix films are art and Star Wars is just entertainment is pretty grating; not to mention pretentious as hell. I guess I'm saying this because there's always been something that's registered to me a little bit "off" about The Matrix movies. I actually prefer "Speed Racer". And heck, given how colourful and digital and delightfully absurd that movie's presentational ethic is (the same cinematographer as the PT is used: David Tattersall), you might think the Wachowskis (and yes: Andy/Lilly bashes Star Wars in the above clip, too) would be a little more open and charitable. Then again, the prequels gave The Matrix sequels a thumping at the box office, and their other movies have struggled to find a similar audience, while Star Wars (despite some bumps in the road) continues to thrive... Never underestimate the power of the green-eyed monster... I mean, I do have some sympathy for them. They strive hard not to give people the same experience twice. So I can see where Lana is coming from in her remarks. Star Wars is more formulaic. But the whole is also greater than the sum. Possibly a truth (albeit generous/subjective) that eludes them where a rival franchise that has taken the western world by storm is concerned... They should go back and see The Matrix or something.
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Post by Alexrd on Feb 10, 2020 20:07:03 GMT
It's pretty bad form to put down the work of another in such a contested industry. No tact. She just outright names Star Wars and slams it. Something about stones and those in glass houses. She also advances a false dichotomy. There's nothing to say you can't have entertainment and art both. The way she implies The Matrix films are art and Star Wars is just entertainment is pretty grating; not to mention pretentious as hell. Well said.
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Post by jppiper on Feb 15, 2020 2:49:54 GMT
The Wachowskis are hailed as Visionaries and Lucas is Called a Hack it's sickening How Many of They're Films Post-Matrix have been successful?! only one Film V for Vendetta and they didn't even Direct it!
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Mar 2, 2020 9:23:36 GMT
It wasn't my desire to start a Star Wars vs The Matrix debate here, but hey, I guess forum threads aren't immune to the law of unintended consequences.
I've always preferred the mystique of the hidden, Watch the film and make your own mind up Wachowskis of the 2000s. It made me think a lot about the role of the director. Why start opening up to interviews now?
For me, The Matrix is a masterpiece, with Reloaded being a very good follow-up. I like Revolutions, but I do admit that parts of it are lacklustre. One can rightly argue that the philosophical aspect gets over-the-top in the two sequels, but like the Baroque in architecture, I feel that it can work out when executed well, and it does for me here. I go back and forth on the stalemate-like ending, sometimes very unsatisfied. I'm still not a fan of the final Neo vs Smith fight - this is over-the-top gone wrong, and it lacks the simplicity and earnestness of Star Wars' Throne Room scene.
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Post by Pyrogenic on Mar 11, 2020 21:04:53 GMT
The Matrix is a magic spell cast over the land. Subliminally glowing, green, gestalt runes imaginarily and symbolically running through literalized, “physicalized” cyberspace – where transcendent, revelatory knowledge of its true nature serves as the initiatory rites to a mystery religion of…reality hackers? Uh, yeah, sign me up! Programs everywhere. Musical notes changing perception. A movie that accepts your input by assuming the form of a computer system UI via its title. Astral projection through a time machine. Mimesis and symbiosis. Thoroughly quotable/hackable. The premise transforms surrounding media into something similar, simulated. So many miscellaneous tidbits in the movies themselves…Easter Eggs. Figure out what it means, or make it mean what you want. Plug in. You should be able to interpret the entire imperial network.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Mar 14, 2020 15:55:17 GMT
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Post by Subtext Mining on Mar 14, 2020 19:35:34 GMT
Let's hope in Matrix 4 that's a steak and not a hot dog with tons of seasoning.
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Post by Cryogenic on Mar 15, 2020 2:45:50 GMT
Let's hope in Matrix 4 that's a steak and not a hot dog with tons of seasoning. I think it's Cypher pondering how, if he gets his wish and is plugged back into The Matrix, he's little more, in reality, than a piece of meat on the end of a fork. And, of course, there is no spoon/fork.
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Post by Ingram on Sept 9, 2021 16:22:08 GMT
Well, there it is.
Thoughts, anyone?
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Sept 9, 2021 16:37:46 GMT
Well, there it is.
Thoughts, anyone?
ah. that reminds me of a movie that came out 22 years ago.
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Post by Somny on Sept 9, 2021 18:26:16 GMT
One word comes to mind...
Reflexivity.
I trust in the Wachowskis, paired or single. This could be extremely interesting.
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