The Rise of Skywalker: Discussion

That's all fine and dandy Cryo (and I did read it all), but, to borrow from Yoda.. See through you I do. You're not just tying to reconcile Lucas's mindset for the sale. You're actively trying to persuade a certain group of Star Wars fans into accepting the ST based on a 35ish year old quote that is not in context to what has transpired in those 35ish years. You're trying to persuade a group of Star Wars fans that are heavily Lucas fans by putting up that quote as a way to suggest (without actually verbally suggesting) that if one values what Lucas has to say, than this quote proves that this is what he wanted for Star Wars, so we should accept it. the "it" being Disney Star Wars.

So again, Lucas's sale of Star Wars was not about fulfilling some 35 year old ideal of letting others play in his sandbox. Lucas was letting others play in his sandbox with which he over saw it with tight control, it was called the EU (now legends). Let us also not forget one important and huge counter-point! That being the main reason that draws us here... He made the Prequel Trilogy. I think that needs to be repeated because it is not something that is to be brushed aside... After that quote.. HE made the Prequel Trilogy, himself. Wrote it, directed it, funded it, edited it, produced it etc etc.. Sure, others got the film credit for things like editing and producing, but lets not fool ourselves into believing that Lucas was actually just sitting back and letting these people just do their thing on their own. Just look at the editing that we are shown time and again in the making of videos, Lucas sat next to Burtt while editing. Burtt performed the physical function of what Lucas wanted, Burtt wasn't editing nothing without Lucas's approval and say so. For all of Lucas's complaing and quotes about letting others play in his Star Wars world. He was not very good with letting others play in his Star Wars world without tight control

That is not a sign of a man that was willing to let someone else play in his sandbox in the medium that he considered the most important, the movies. Again, important to point out that this was after the quote you have thrown out there.

To me, it seems very clear as to why Lucas sold. It's clear he started and planned to do the Sequel Trilogy himself. It was Lucas that started to write the outlines, it was Lucas that contacted Hamill, Fisher, and Ford to return, it was Lucas that hired Arndt to help write the screenplay. This was all Lucas before the sale. To me, Lucas said it himself, he finally came to the realization that he was too old to be doing this for another 10 years, he was married, had a baby on the way, and wasn't looking forward to another round of un-forgiving fans and media abuse. He has said these things and a lot more recently than the quote you have put up. His metaphors and analogies in the Charlie Rose interview show that he finally came to the realization that if he were to move forward on the ST, that he would not be able to sit back and let others do their thing. It would be a repeat of ROTJ where Marquand himself said that Lucas basically directed the movie. That Rose interview showed that Lucas finally reached a crossroads where he knew it was time for him to let go, and move on. The only way he could do it, was to actually sell it.

Even after the sale he said he had trouble letting go. So again, the sale is not some fulfillment of a 35ish year old quote. The sale is the harsh realization that Lucas was fighting his inner demons about what he wanted for the rest of his life. Thus the decision was made to cash in, and try his best to move on.

The sale is what the sale is. It's a financial transaction and passing of hands of legal property rights, but, that does not mean I or anyone else has to like or even accept what the new owner has done with what is legally theirs. Lucas sold it, and he retired. That doesn't mean that because of a 35 year old quote I or anyone else should somehow have some epiphany that the sale was part of a larger plan that Lucas wanted all along.

It's funny to go back and review this thread in light of another thread kicking about regarding Palpatine's agency.

Now that the Sequel Trilogy is a done thing and Palpatine most definitely appears in it (or does he?), it might be fun to ask:

Does Palpatine have any real consciousness in the saga? I'm damned if I know.

It's amusing, at the end of the saga, he's repeating prequel lines like a puppet on a string. For so long, he appears to be the puppet master in Star Wars, only to end up being ventriloquised himself. Of course, you could just blast the makers of the ST for that, and keep Lucas' record clean. But it's an interesting idea. What if Palpatine is nothing more than a vergence or focal point for all the Sith, whom the Jedi believe, at the start of the saga, have long gone extinct? They came back in a very mendacious and spiteful form. They compacted themselves into one being and manipulated everyone and everything. Played the galaxy like a harp from hell. Or maybe Palpatine has his own "I"-based personhood in the GL saga, but he is reprised as a relic and flooded with Sith voices in TROS, becoming a chimera, with part of his own consciousness from before and then a mixture of all the Sith that have come before him. In one revealing measure of the difference between "LucasPalpatine" and "AbramsPalpatine", Palpatine coolly boasts to Yoda in ROTS: "At last. The Jedi are no more." In TROS, he repeats his "At last" to Kylo, in a similar register; but in Rey's presence, he absolutely thunders: "THE JEDI ARE DEAD!" See what I mean? Bits 'n' pieces of the old Palpy bodged together with some gloopy Sith mixture that turns Palpatine full dotard. 

The episode numerals and their glyphic powers speak to Palpatine's actualisation, diminution, and recrudescence:

I, II, III -- actualising/ascending to the galactic seat of power
IV, V, VI, VII, VIII -- erosion of power, destruction of self, reformation of self
IX -- masculine and feminine coming-together leads to Palpatine's powering-up, and moments later, initiates his complete eradication (yin-yang <> balance)

Hey, I didn't say this post needed to make good sense.

Like the Sequel Trilogy authors.

I apologise for this interruption in your regular transmission.

Cryogenic has heard a mysterious broadcast. He must now go home and rethink his life.

Wonderful article, Joe! Thanks for posting it.

I find it very clever and satisfying that the author identifies how ROTS and TROS (look even at those acronyms) are locked in a sort of call-and-response. I don't know if one film is truly the equal of the other (c'mon: I'm a prequel fanboy above all else), but they have at least proposed a thoughtful bridge -- a sort of "skywalk" between one film, the end of one regime, and another. It's always edifying to read thoughtful essays on the movies; even when one may quibble certain details or disagree with one premise or another.

BTW: The author, Emmet Asher-Perrin, has previously written the following piece on the prequels, which is also worth reading. I think it's obvious they struggle a bit with Lucas' dialogue. But they clearly admire the visual construction of the films; and they also appear to esteem ROTS a fair degree:

www.tor.com/2013/01/16/watching-the-star-wars-prequels-muted-an-experiment/

From that earlier essay, I adore this paragraph -- really got my mind reeling when I first read it:


Onto the two responses you've elicited with that link:





I get that you guys don't like the Sequel Trilogy, but you've both given into pettifogging and griping over small details. Why not say you disagree with the article and the main argument instead of playing "gotcha"?

First, Tony... No offence, but anyone who writes tends to be a little narcissistic and esteems themselves a bit. You have to have a certain aloofness from others, and a confidence you're expressing something half-way interesting, in order to really be a writer, in my opinion. So what you're saying is no big deal. It's also a cheap ad hominem attack. As I just mentioned, this same author wrote a good piece on the visual intelligence of the prequels some years ago. You may want to look at that before insinuating they're full of themselves and plainly unobservant where these movies go. 

Moonshield:

Perhaps it's an exaggeration (though probably an unconscious one) to say that Anakin lies about his excitement to Padme when she tells him she's pregnant. On the other hand, Anakin is clearly maintaining a happy facade: putting on a "happy face". When he goes to kiss her at the end of the scene, he looks momentarily awkward and nervous; after casting around to find the right words, gulping, looking down, and merely repeating what his wife just said (Her: "Something wonderful has happened"; Him: "That's... that's wonderful"). In a poignant moment, Anakin attempts to put his wife at ease, telling her: "We're not going to worry about anything right now. This is a happy moment. The happiest moment of my life." I get a chill just typing those words. But then comes that fleeting moment of anxiety he displays that I just spoke of as the scene wraps. 

I would also argue that Anakin continues to remain anxious about the prospect of becoming a father from that moment on; even if he doesn't initially show it in the next scene of him and Padme together. Padme herself, perhaps now assured by Anakin attempting to put a halo on the announcement in the former scene, dreamily fantasises about returning to Naboo and picking a spot to have their baby, "right next to the gardens" (of course: Naboo is a garden planet -- making this declaration sound hazy and woozy). Anakin, meanwhile, gazes lovingly at his wife, apparently in a blissful trance of his own. He tellingly makes no mention of the baby; instead remarking on how beautiful his wife is when she announces her baby-based fantasy. The scene lends the impression that it's this idealised image of his wife he doesn't want to lose. 

Becoming a parent is a major responsibility -- perhaps the biggest there is. Anakin's subsequent nightmare implies his subconscious is fighting back and telling him he isn't ready. He has suppressed this energy until now; so it bursts forth, afflicting him, dazzling him, causing him to wake up, Lazarus-like, in a sweat-laden panic. He checks on Padme and then leaves the bedroom for some cool night air, dwelling in darkness until Padme senses his disappearance and arrives, turning on the lamps. This part of the film is very touching and poetic to me. Anakin is initially distant and uptight: he doesn't want to give the dream any more credibility or potency than it deserves. But Padme extracts it out of him: "You die in childbirth." There. He has said it. It must now be real. But notice: He says nothing about the baby; forcing Padme to ask in his neglect/apophasis. He simply brushes the matter aside: "I don't know." Demonstrating yet again that Anakin doesn't feel ready for this responsibility.

As Padme says with tragic understatement (and this is really the crux of Anakin's anxieties): "This baby will change our lives." She begins to rattle off what that means, concretely, for the two of them, and Anakin shushes her. He clearly doesn't want to think about all the inevitable changes that lie ahead. Why? Because Anakin doesn't want things to change -- as he tells his mother in TPM. That's his chief flaw. And his wife being pregnant strikes mightily at that. The fantasy of a perfect union, free of complication, isolated and independent of their other roles in society, will soon be lost. And this is what Anakin is in denial towards. Anakin's ego merely perceives it as a death situation (did you see Padme dying in the dream?) because it's really the death of their existing sacrament and its dissolution into something new. Naturally, Anakin perceives Padme crying to him for help -- but then, he has always seem himself as a helper and a fixer, has he not?

Tony:

Before accusing the author of lacking simple understanding, make sure your own isn't overly simple. While Anakin may not be keen for Obi-Wan to be involved, even manifesting a sort of low-level hostility when he detects the presence of Obi-Wan in Padme's apartment after his second vision, we shouldn't necessarily take him too literally. Anakin may be weary of involving Obi-Wan, but that doesn't mean he doesn't feel pushed into a corner when Obi-Wan leaves. His position about involving Obi-Wan hardens to disguise his underlying fears. Of course, he tells Padme that "Obi-Wan and the Council don't trust me"; but in the scene where he seemingly establishes that notion and allows it to take root in his conscious (the "Brothers' Farewell" scene), he clearly tries reaching out to Obi-Wan initially, and then is left in darkness when Obi-Wan boards the ship and leaves him behind. If he could re-play the tape in his head, he might have tried a different approach, or manically insisted that he go straight to Utapau (to hell with the wishes of the Jedi Council) with his long-standing master. He is clearly trapped on Coruscant; and now more limited in his options. 

Anakin's underlying unease with Obi-Wan's absence is well-expressed when he goes to Palpatine and he tells him that Obi-Wan has engaged General Grievous. Not in that way (but there's a funny meme about it). Then he quickly adds: "I should be there with him." Even when Anakin is kneeling and pledging himself to Palpatine some time later, he's obviously still got Obi-Wan on his mind, causing Palpatine to name-drop him with his diabolical declaration: "Every single Jedi, including your friend, Obi-Wan Kenobi, is now an enemy of the Republic." And this is how manipulators work -- how manipulation gets done. You separate people from their friends, family; from any source that might help the victim see they're being gaslit and played like a puppet. The key is to remove hope from their life. It's a very effective tactic and I recommend you look up online literature on the subject. It was noted years ago, by astute PT fans, that Palpatine only makes his move on Anakin when Obi-Wan and Yoda (heck, even Mace, in those final moments) are out of the picture. When there is no-one sympathetic to Anakin.

The funny thing about human beings is that, well, we're social creatures, even when we're isolationists and loners. The paradox of solitude is loneliness. Even very inward people often feel lonely in moments. You can't predict what Anakin would do if Yoda and Obi-Wan were still on Coruscant to help him. Perhaps he would go to them, at the last second, in desperation -- lonely, confused, terrified. Instead, the only Jedi of any significance he consults with is the only one available: the profoundly stoic and detached Mace Windu. It's no coincidence that Palpatine has rigged things that way. In running back to the Jedi, Anakin can even convince himself that he has done the right thing -- but again: look who he runs back to. Obi-Wan being out of reach and busy in a war-torn environment, while Anakin stews in the frigid, vacated, cold-zen spaces of Coruscant, is no small thing. I think you are wrong to chastise the author for asserting, in essence, that Anakin has lost his little Jedi support network; however feeble it may be. Because he has. And it plays right into Palpatine's hands. The image of Anakin all alone in the Jedi Council chambers -- a place that first rejected him; banished there by a Jedi that first rejected him -- speaks volumes. 

If this is how you guys view the prequels, perhaps the sequels are a little more intricate and thoughtful than you're giving them credit for. I don't say that to be snide. Well, okay: a little. But I wouldn't be a fan of the series if I didn't think these subtleties were there. What would be the point? We're meant to be sensitive to nuance and wider, even radical, possibilities of engagement and interpretation. That's what Qui-Gon's maxim is for at the start of the saga: "Be mindful of the Living Force." If it's a Living Force, then let it be a Living Force. See the wrinkles, the complexities, the marvellous fluidities and little details: the small dots in the painting. Or don't see them, I guess. Believe yourself smarter and superior to writers who actually look for patterns and try and make something interesting of those patterns. Is that what this website is now for? Just the other day, Tony, you said that you and Subtext Mining thought that putting out essay-like posts on this forum, when it started out, was the way to go. Are essays about the films now wrong? Or is it only when they champion films you dislike? It has been insinuated that my allegedly acerbic tone in a few other exchanges might deter people from posting and contributing (overlooking the fact I have promoted this forum a great deal and convinced several people to join) -- but what about grumpy, hostile dismissals of positive essays trying to argue substance and unify the films? That might just deter some people, too. 

I'm not saying anything about the Sequel Trilogy, because I didn't watch it. (Only TFA).

Anakin: "I'm tired of all this deception, I don't care if they know we're married." - panicking? No.



No, he just looks happy. He puts on a "happy face" in the other scene and Padme notices that immediately.



No. He even smiles like he is saying to Padme: "Don't worry, be happy".



At that moment, he looks also happy, i.e. he isn't panicking. I remember the whole scene since 2005, it was happy.

Fine. I even said, in my own response, that that was a strong word (or an exaggeration). It just doesn't make a whole lot of sense -- to me -- that several people here (with you now joining in) would gang up against the writer on this one detail. Unless, that is, you're setting out to convince yourself the whole article is nonsense, and saving yourself the task of actually engaging with it. Not that prequel bashers have ever behaved that way toward the prequels. Oh, no. 



And yet:

You still commented on the article: a TROS article in a TROS thread.

And in a way that suggested you desired to invalidate the entire thing. Which -- no offence -- seems ridiculous, given your confession above.


Non-sequitur. That particular piece of dialogue is said in a somewhat offhand fashion and comes before Padme tells Anakin she's pregnant -- which is what I'm saying is the cause of his anxiety.


This is quite hilarious. A moment ago, Alex interjected to complain about the use of absolutes to describe emotional states. Yet here you now are, directly under his post, doing just that. To reprise his comment: "Apparently a person can't be shocked (or surprised) and excited at the same time."

Yet there's another layer here:

If you're saying Anakin is putting on a "happy face" in the next scene, but not this one, then that begs the question: What has changed for him between this scene (where the pregnancy is announced and Anakin, you're saying, is genuinely happy) and the next one (where Anakin stands restfully admiring his wife and Anakin, you're saying, is sort of faking it: "happy face")? Why would he go from happy to faking happiness the very next time we see him? What's the bump in the road between this scene and the next one?


Sure. That's part of the bittersweet poignancy of it. Yet there's still a moment where he looks nervous and scared.

That's why I have stated he is putting on a brave or happy face. Perhaps he is simply disguising his anxiety in this scene for the benefit of his wife.

I think it's a sweet scene, but I also detect a dark undercarriage that the next few scenes powerfully build on. It's that subtle tension, even in what Anakin literally claims is "the happiest moment" (of his life), that makes the film more interesting and meaningful -- in my opinion, anyway. And yes: I like what the author makes of it.


He mostly looks calm and happy. I think we agree to that extent. But I contend that something else is going on that nuances the scene (and the film) a good deal.

"I remember the whole scene since 2005." Neat.

Are you saying the film made a big impression on you from the start? Or is that you haven't watched it in some time and that you put great faith in your own powers of recall?

If the latter, you're not being reasonable. The mind plays tricks and memory is grossly imperfect. Go and watch the scene again and scrutinise it closely. It really exemplifies that famous aphorism of Rick McCallum's: "It's so dense. Every single image has so many things going on." 


He does do it rather softly. But that doesn't mean, however softly he does it, he isn't telling his wife to be quiet -- or simply, for reasons good or ill, stopping her from reminding him of the changes ahead. He very clearly lulls her into stopping talking. He is obviously tense about the situation and doesn't want to think too much about the consequences. The very fact they're having that discussion on the patio/veranda is because Anakin broke away from his wife to contemplate his dream on his own. 

I'm not interested, sorry. And I can criticize the wrong things, especially if an author tries to prove them.


I.e. I did right. By the way, why TROS article contains a lot of ROTS stuff? TROS isn't a self-dependent movie?


I didn't desire to invalidate the entire thing. I made a reference to an article, took one quote and criticized it. But now I see that this critique can show that the whole article is wrong, and it makes me laugh.


So what? We can compare his state at that moment and at the moment when he says "This is a happy moment", when he looks more calm.







No, he doesn't. He looks a bit nervous and doesn't look scared at all. He says right words to her, and after that she becomes happier.


No, he isn't. In the next scene ("You're so beautiful") he doesn't look "nervous" or "scared" and even has dreamy eyes.


I remembered only two scenes: this and burnt Vader. Also, one moment of Padme - "to be honest with each other" (night scene).

It means: "I know, my dear, it's alright".


He is clearly desperate, when he rushes to save Palpatine. Not here. Here he is still trying to defeat his fears. But Yoda's advice was misunderstood. "Train yourself to let go..." - young man can think: "Do you ask me not to care about Padme??"

I was just noting what I said on that same matter, because I consider it pertinent and you acted like it wasn't there. Hence what I said next:


In other words: Some people here are choosing to be deliberately uncharitable, terse, and dismissive, simply because an article was put forth that offers a critique of ROTS in relation to TROS. Which, of course, isn't the same as the author bashing ROTS. But because a lot of prequel fans here already dislike the Sequel Trilogy, they give themselves licence to take any perceived slight against the prequels as an excuse to dismiss the whole article, and to assert (in as many words) that the author is an idiot. Very much like the way your average prequel basher has behaved down the years.


You didn't speak directly about the whole article; but you, like the others, saw the perfect excuse to dismiss it. It's functionally equivalent to a religious nut bashing science because they think they've found some knockdown flaw with evolution, then harping on that detail as if it demolishes the entire theory, and with it, the whole edifice of science. So now it's clear that it isn't only religious nuts or prequel bashers that are intellectually dishonest or afraid of using lame rhetorical tricks.



Well, you must have read a chunk of it in the first place, just to bash it the way you did. You were, after all, the first to put in a reply; so you weren't leveraging your remarks off of somebody else's (not in this thread, at least). 

The author wasn't really trying to prove what they said; they were asserting it, a priori, so they could make some wider points about some of the thematic motifs they perceive at work in the two movies (ROTS and TROS). 

And for this, several prequel fans, like lions in the Savannah, jumped out of their hiding places and mauled them. Not bothering to read the rest of the article; or certainly not bothering to show they were willing to consider it in any discernible way. Just so they could lamely virtue-signal: they're wrong, they're an idiot, bla, bla.


Yes -- and I'm still left wondering why you bothered.

Though I think your question exposes the root of the problem:

Keep the sequels as far away from everyone's beloved prequels as possible. That's what most of you desire, isn't it?

No, TROS is not a self-dependent movie -- terrible strawman. Like all the Star Wars movies, it is actually interdependent. It depends on the other saga films for its full effect. Of course, we can all quibble the details, the thinking behind it, and so on, but it clearly echoes and reflects what has come before (even if people don't like it). This author simply takes it a step further and argues that it is actually performing a commentary, of sorts, on the climactic movie of the PT (and the swansong of the Lucas Era). I find that interesting. But other people here want only to sneer at the author and shit on the whole concept.


If you didn't desire to invalidate it, then it's the same as me saying to someone arguing for the beauty of the prequels: 

"Jar Jar." Or: "Horrible dialogue." Or: "Qui-Gon is never mentioned in the OT." Or: "The Emperor became deformed over time, not because he attacked Mace."

I think you get the idea. One thing you disagree with or find obnoxious or pathetic, and suddenly, the whole thing is worthless. Yeah. Let me just stand back in awe at how intellectually cogent and philosophically devastating that is.


You know why? Because he's happy. That doesn't preclude him experiencing other emotional states. In fact, visuals in all the movies show him being constantly pulled -- or torn -- between different directions. Whether it's between two characters in TPM (his hesitation about whether to go with Padme or cling to Qui-Gon when they arrive at Coruscant), or whether it's him fighting his conscience over what to do with Dooku on the Invisible Hand (torn between the Jedi path and the Sith path as the two lightsaber colours indicate), Anakin frequently feels conflict; and that conflict asserts itself in different ways. Moreover, I should think that makes the pregnancy announcement, and Anakin declaring it a happy moment, more haunting and interesting, not less.


Padme looks more concerned because she is more emotionally open than Anakin. That's a big difference between them -- in moments, anyway. In AOTC, for instance, she is more emotionally realistic about Anakin's nightmare, while he tries to hide the truth of his conflict from her; until she presses him and gets him to admit he suffered another nightmare that night. And later in ROTS, for example, Anakin gets mad at her for pressuring him into urging Palpatine to "stop the fighting and let diplomacy resume"; with him pointing at her and backing off, which impels Padme to say to him: "Don't do this. Don't shut me out." The idea is that Anakin tends to repress discomforting issues and avoid conflict; while Padme is a bit more upfront and honest. On the patio where the snippet is mentioned, we get the same thing: She cautions Anakin about how the baby will change their lives, but he quiets her down because he doesn't really want to think too much about the consequences. 


Okay, yah. Thanks for the clarification. I agree that she does notice the self-deception (or the attempt at deflection) from Anakin here. And yes, I also enjoy this scene a great deal. Beautiful framing and lighting. Sharp dialogue. Lovely music. Wonderful set design. Great hair and makeup. Superb costuming. Great pacing. And excellent performances from Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman. Lucas really does a lot here with the poignant emotional beats. It's a scene that is allowed to breathe; and it really sinks into your subconscious. The tone of the movie is notably different from this point on.


Because he's trying to cheer her up and put her at ease and convince himself into the bargain. He's hiding his fear for the both of them. Sadly, it doesn't last. Strategies of repression invariably have their limits.


Because he's basically in a love trance in that moment. He acts like the pregnancy isn't real. People have long noted the strange, syrupy dialogue of this scene. It's like the two are under a spell. I think Lucas uses the dialogue to hammer that point home (Padme mentions the baby, but not Anakin); as well as using it to put across a core theme ("So love has blinded you?). And yes -- love has blinded Anakin. Lucas very dramatically shifts gears by immediately piercing the veil of this scene with Anakin's ensuing and incredibly stereoscopic nightmare. A real big shake-up from TPM and AOTC where we never permitted to experience his dreams/visions and were kept at a distance.


I'm happy for you -- and maybe nervous and anxious, too. 

But seriously:

You haven't seen the movie since 2005? Is that what you're saying? Wow.


I agree that he is trying to defeat his fears. Nicely put. But there is obviously a core of desperation underneath the calm -- or sullen -- facade. That's what I meant. He is so concerned, in fact, that he almost exposes his relationship with Padme to Yoda. Look how close he comes:

YODA: Yourself, you speak of, or someone you know?
ANAKIN: Someone...

Let's credit Yoda with some intelligence and say he has his suspicions. At this point, he may even know. But neither is quite prepared to betray their own personal ethic or life modus. In fact, you could argue that it is out of some peculiar deference to the Jedi Code, and the consequences of going against it, that the both of them, in their own way, are hiding in the shadows. 



The problem with that video is two-fold:

1) The guy's face is overlaid over Anakin's in that critical moment.

2) The guy is talking and giving his own commentary and facial reactions -- which, even if the first point wasn't a problem (which it is), serves as a distraction when you're trying to process subtle details.

The video being made by a sequel fan means nothing. I might as well say that prequel fans have observed Anakin's nervousness in that same moment since 2005 -- would that sway you? For example:

boards.theforce.net/threads/rots-chapter-7-happy-reunions-discussion.22447476/#post-22457877


"Immediate shock and near-dread."

"I'm not sure he fooled her."

Again, that's back in 2005, from a staunch Lucas lover -- as her name attests.

I also know this person a little bit. I can tell you she's a very big PT fan. Are you going to trash her, or maybe do what Tony did, and belittle her "irrelevantly high self-esteem"? She more or less says what the author says about the same moment. She doesn't accuse Anakin of lying, but she obviously notes a similar quality in his demeanour. Of course, people are allowed to differ, but to dismiss and demean the writer of the TOR article on the basis of their reading the moment a similar way seems a little suspect to me.

I agree that the article is a little clickbait-y, but it's designed as a lure, even in the article. A thing that clickbait titles are intended to do, in one way, is exploit ecological niches. The better ones (by definition) do it more effectively. Even with clickbait titles, not all titles are created equal.

On the other hand, the author themselves might not have chosen the title. When you write for a website and your material is published by another entity, you don't always get to choose the title. This is also frequently the case in the publishing industry.

And while you're right that the movies are serving as a counterbalance (or that's the author's contention), the word "fix", to get a bit more esoteric, has a broad array of meanings:

www.thefreedictionary.com/fix

The first two definitions given could apply:

a. To correct or set right; adjust: fix a misspelling; fix the out-of-date accounts.
b. To restore to proper condition or working order; repair: fix a broken machine.

A couple more further down also click well:

a. To place securely; make stable or firm: fixed the tent poles in the ground.
b. To secure to another; attach: fixing the notice to the board with tacks.

These definitions are also relevant:

a. To put into a stable or unalterable form: tried to fix the conversation in her memory.
b. To make (a chemical substance) nonvolatile or solid.
c. To convert (nitrogen or carbon) into stable, biologically assimilable compounds.

Those last few definitions are quite neat, because "fixing" (consistent with "b" directly above) is also a process in chemical photography. And, of course, these are movies that imprint (consistent with "a" directly above) on the mind, very strongly, in all sorts of ways. Lastly, one could argue that the author is saying, or presenting a case, that the movies are now more "stable" (consistent with several definitions above), because they have been set in deeper harmonic balance with one another. I like all these resonances. Maybe being a bit of a wordsmith helps.

Cheekily, on a final note, even Anakin says in Episode II:

"Life seems so much simpler when you're fixing things."

So perhaps the author has oversimplified the movies a tad; or maybe they're saying there's an elegant simplicity when all nine movies are seen as a complete set.


The author states "No one talks to each other" (their emphasis) in a somewhat provocative, beat-poet sort of way. They're intending to draw attention, with sharp wording, to a major theme of the movie (and, I would contend, of the fuller trilogy). They go on to immediately qualify:


Are you meaning to sit there and tell me that you don't see trust breaking down between various parties in the movie?

By the way, in their wording there, they neatly hark to the main title (which perhaps means they chose it): "how to fix the problem". They appear to be saying that this is something left deliberately in need of remedying. And their argument, obviously, is that TROS accomplishes that. But some people want to get all bent out of shape about it, dismissing it wholesale (not necessarily pointing a finger at you, in this instance, Mike). 


The author doesn't quite "shoehorn" a singular emotion into the scene. This is what they actually say:


In order for Anakin to be lying (the author's assertion, not mine), he must be faking an emotional state counter to the one the author identifies. In other words, there are at least two emotional states in the scene, from Anakin, as acknowledged by the author -- it's simply a disagreement (as far as I see it) about to what degree (if any) Anakin is masking over his underlying anxiety, or affecting a disingenuous/happy facade.


I do like your reading, Mike. Perhaps Anakin just wants one moment of bliss and happiness in his life and is trying to will it into being (i.e., he will not give into his anxieties here -- that can wait for another time). That said, he really has to spend a moment pulling himself together, when Padme first tells him why she's trembling. And while you cite your own situation, Anakin and Padme's is a little different. They're in a secret marriage; and scandal is sure to follow, along with excommunication, if/when they are discovered. That is arguably a whole lot different to just the usual financial and lifestyle worries that tend to accompany such developments. Anakin, in particular, full-well knows the penalty he's likely to face: Just worrying about Padme falling out of the gunship, and demanding the ship be turned around, in Episode II, was enough for Obi-Wan to threaten him with expulsion from the Jedi Order. And this is on a whole other level to that.
 

Actually, I think the advice is a little hollow and cruel. Even Yoda himself doesn't completely follow it:

YODA: Mourn them, do not. Miss them, do not.

But later in the film:

(To Chewie and Tarfful)

"Miss you, I will."

The scene between Yoda and Anakin also evokes THX, who's having doubts about his life situation, and worried about his connection to his (female) "mate", going to consult with the information kiosk, or confession booth, in "THX-1138":



Both protagonists -- THX and Anakin -- essentially get hollow, State-approved advice. In THX's case, it's even more extreme: it's pre-recorded babble and persuasion intended to pacify the booth occupant into bland conformity. That extreme scenario shades into the one in ROTS. Yoda is essentially preaching the Jedi rulebook at Anakin. No nuance whatsoever. The tragic joke is that he's barely talking to Anakin any more than the fake counsellor/pseudo-Jesus (and hilariously: slightly Obi-Wan-ish avatar) is talking to THX. There are, of course, an awesome network of resonances between all of Lucas' movies.
 

No. I agree with the author that the whole movie has to do with people not talking to one another -- or, as the author clarified: the issue is that no-one is really being open and honest with one another. The Jedi distrust Palpatine and send Anakin to spy on him. Anakin and Padme start to distrust one another. Anakin conceals his marriage from the Jedi Order, including Obi-Wan. Padme herself tries deceiving Obi-Wan about the baby and refuses to give up Anakin's location. Palpatine tricks the Separatists. Dooku isn't told that he is being used in a testing ritual and that Palpatine plans to have Anakin kill him. Palpatine deceives Anakin and lures him to the Dark Side. Obi-Wan sneaks onto Padme's ship. And all the while, while committing his dark deeds, Anakin is lying to himself. Only when he catches a glimpse of himself on Mustafar does he shed a tear. The whole movie is profoundly encapsulated by this theme of deceit and stolen glimpses of repressed and hidden truths. 


He obviously went to Yoda because he didn't want to compromise his relationship with Obi-Wan -- and, presumably, because he thought Yoda might give him better advice. That doesn't entirely rule out Anakin turning to Obi-Wan later. But Palpatine deprives him of that avenue by making sure Obi-Wan is maneuvered out of the picture. Yoda, too. In fact, Yoda goes first, leaving Obi-Wan as an option. But, before Obi-Wan leaves, there is this wall of tension between Anakin and Obi-Wan, which further pushes Anakin into darkness. That farewell scene is yet another example of characters not being honest and open with one another. Someone else grokked that scene a few years ago:

smittysgelato.wordpress.com/2016/05/21/prequel-posts-1-brothers-farewell/

I won't copy it all, but the opening paragraph -- when I first read it (and even now) -- was like a punch to the gut:


The author notes the wall of denial is much stronger on Anakin's part -- but nevertheless, neither character is being entirely honest, and instead projects elements of themselves on the other, and then pretends everything is alright. Granted, it's a far more incendiary reading than prequel fans normally give that scene. But then I think people have fetishised these movies a strong degree, making them averse to deeper insights. 

In any case, Lucas lays out the core issues in TPM. For instance, there is Sio Bibble's pointed line: "A communications disruption can mean only one thing: invasion." As the PT narrative progresses, that's exactly what we see: the invasion of the Dark Side, of fear, doubt, distrust, doing its filthy work, degrading communication, wrecking relationships, breaking bonds. Star Wars has a great soulfulness to it; and, in my opinion, it's because of these motifs and design features.  


But that's not what we see taking place. The foundation for communication is compromised precisely because the marriage is built on a lie. This is exactly what both characters foresaw at the end of the fireplace scene in AOTC:

PADME: We'd be living a lie. I couldn't do that. Could you, Anakin? Could you live like that?
ANAKIN: No, you're right. It would destroy us.

When they meet back up, Padme warns Anakin, "Don't say things like that", when he suggests they give up maintaining secrecy and throw discretion to the wind. So right away, Padme wants the union to continue in the shadows, now that it's long underway; regardless of the pressure this places on the couple. Later, we see Anakin exiting the bedroom after his nightmare and having some quiet time. This in itself isn't necessarily deceptive, but it does indicate how he tends to isolate him from Padme -- reinforced by his clamming up when she initially asks what's bothering him. In that same scene, she asks him straight: "How long is it going to take for us to be honest with each other?" So she recognises that some level of deception and a certain holding-back has been occurring a while.

Later, in the scene where Padme brings up the idea of them being on the wrong side, and the democracy of the Republic being a sham, Anakin gets angry and shuts her down. After this, as the author rightly notes, Padme never raises the topic again in her husband's presence. At this point, they essentially begin leading separate lives; the foundations of their marriage (like the Republic) crumbling before they can admit it. This is not mere "stress". It's a major schism that develops because they're surrounded by shadows and living among shadows themselves.

Secrets, lies, and distrust are everywhere in the Republic now. Admittedly, if Lucas had left those deleted scenes with Padme in, this would have been clearer. But if you look at the wider narrative of the PT (trust begins to fade and weaken in various ways in the neo-noir landscape of AOTC), I think it can be properly grasped in ROTS. The characters are shackled by divisions and distrust; and Anakin and Padme cannot escape the consequences of their actions and everything happening around them. There are no safe spaces in ROTS.


Sure. If you say so...


Well, the tension between Poe and Rey has been there a while. We can infer this from Finn's dialogue and reaction to the two of them bickering when Poe arrives back with the Falcon on the rebel base. They have a bit of spat concerning the state of the Falcon and BB-8, making little digs at each other. And then comes the matter of there being a spy in the First Order, and Poe's annoyance/impatience with Rey training, instead of being where she thinks she belongs: out in the field fighting the good fight. Poe's impatience remains long after this, even though he tolerates Rey, cares for her, and maybe even likes her (yes: like that). We see his impatience manifesting again on Kef Bir, after Rey disappears and goes to the Death Star ruins on her own, unannounced. While they never really talk about it, Poe eventually sobers up and realises the error was really his own. He's heartened back at the base when he realises Rey is showing them how to get to Exegol. There is little for them to fight about after that. Following the big action climax, they have managed their fears and won the day. Although it would certainly be good if we could see more of their relationship (somehow) in the future.


Finn goes chasing after Rey on Kef Bir and puts himself and Jannah in harm's way. Later, he senses Rey's passing, and almost never gets to tell her his secret. Fortunately, Kylo (now as Ben) reverses that one for him. Finn might have been able to quell some of Rey's anxieties if he had opened up to being Force sensitive earlier. He could have at least distracted her a while and made his admonition to her -- "That doesn't sound like you" -- carry more weight. When he tells Poe, "You have no idea what she's fighting", that's something of a confession, on his part, that he didn't do enough to reach out to her earlier, on the ship.

Poe does have a moment where he's reluctant to go back and confront his past. Whether it's really that big of a moment, I can't say. Sometimes, it takes a while to put these things in their proper context. But it certainly ties into Rey's dark heritage. It's a theme, in other words, about reckoning with and overcoming one's past. It turns out to be lucky that Poe has a checkered past. It enables them to do what they need to do -- even though Poe is reluctant to have his past exposed to the others. It's not huge, but there's something to that that fits nicely into the larger narrative.  


I don't agree. I think part of the problem (even though prequel fans don't seem to acknowledge half the things happening in it) is that ROTS is such an epic powerhouse of a movie, and so kitted out with a sense of tragic grandeur, that TROS falls short by comparison -- but then, frankly, I think most movies do. The author seems to concede at the end that some of the things they've pulled out of TROS aren't of the same scale:


"Stealthily". They're not saying these are major plot points, or grandly-woven character arcs; but that they do, at the least, lend some commentary to what happens in ROTS. I also love their last sentence. It's surprising, in a way, that there's this much depth and intelligence to notice in TROS, since it cracks along at a hyperactive pace, and its main characters are arguably Rey and Kylo, followed by the legacy characters of Luke, Leia, Han, and yes: raving-mad Palpatine. Yet the other characters also get some development, and from this development, certain themes and messages can be glimpsed -- themes and messages that help solidify why Star Wars endures and is more than just popcorn entertainment for so many.