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Post by jppiper on Oct 30, 2022 19:43:52 GMT
Today 10 years ago October 30, 2012 a Day that will live in Infamy for Fans of Star Wars it came out of nowhere George Lucas Relinquishing control of His baby to the Walt Disney Company along with a New Trilogy of films after Lucas said the series was done with ROTS Naturally many said that with Lucas gone SW would be Great again and the original unaltered OT would finally be released with Quality Picture and Sound (still hasn't) many saw TFA as a return to form (how can they say that when they destroyed the ending of ROTJ?) The Backlash really started with TLJ and well you know the rest so what are your thoughts on the deal a decade later?
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 30, 2022 19:58:12 GMT
I think I feel roughly the same as I did 10 years ago. Star Wars is going to outlive George, so someone is going to have to become the steward of the franchise. In my mind, we could have done a hell of a lot worse than Disney. That being said, I remember 10 years ago thinking to myself: "Well...I guess this means I am eventually going to have to see a Star Wars film I hate, but it also means I'm going to get some films I enjoy that I otherwise wouldn't get." So far, Disney hasn't made a film that I hate. So that's good!
Bottom line: the deal is a mixed bag, but maybe going slightly better than I originally thought it would, but I still think there will one day be a film that I hate, which I don't relish the thought of. When you make endless films, not all of them can be good.
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Post by eljedicolombiano on Oct 30, 2022 21:42:27 GMT
I remember thinking it was bad news when it was announced-
In a lot of ways, some of my worst fears came to fruition. There's been some decent content, but I can't really see Disney's stewardship as a success. Overall perhaps what I miss the most is the feeling of family GL brought to the company when it was still his. Many of the employees who stayed around (thinking of you Pablo) later showed their true colors, and fan relations between LFL have gone to the toilet, probably to never recover to what they once where. Disney has essentially turned LFL into a lifeless corporation, another subsidiary in the giant tentacles of the octopus, and Star Wars is barely distinguishable from other movie franchises.
If it wasn't for the ST, it might have been a success
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Post by emperorferus on Oct 30, 2022 22:03:00 GMT
I would say mostly negative with some redeeming features.
I was still a young kid in 2012 and my first thought for years was "More Star Wars!"
I didn't really think about the storytelling differences between George and other artists, and this lasted into the ST era. I also didn't think about the negative ramifications of TFA's story until much later- I enjoyed it as a movie, but it grew harder to like with subsequent content that tied into it.
I can to varying degrees get into new content, but the lore will always be soured by the trilogy that the story threads will inevitably tie into.
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Post by jppiper on Oct 30, 2022 22:23:20 GMT
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Post by emperorferus on Oct 31, 2022 0:20:40 GMT
I’d be in favor of it happening. Then the post ROTJ shows could exist without it. If not that, as a compromise I could take the original treatment in comic or animated form. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 31, 2022 3:13:25 GMT
I can't believe it's been ten years. I really can't. I knew this day was upon us, but it's hard to work out where those ten years went. They've really flown by.
Joe, you're right to say that the sale to Disney "came out of nowhere". It was like Luke blowing up the Death Star: a one-in-a-million happening that was totally unexpected.
Of course, after the immediate shock of the news died down, it seemed like a logical course of action on GL's part. Mark Hamill himself said exactly the same thing right after it happened. Nevertheless, I was reeling about it for days, weeks, months -- even years. Even today, it's still a little hard to comprehend that Star Wars no longer belongs to George Lucas and that it's just some Disney thing. Or is it? Aye, that's the rub. While Disney very much intellectually owns the brand, Star Wars as a cultural object is stuck in this semi-autonomous netherworld for the moment: somewhere between high-budget fan fiction, corporate product, artistic endeavour, labyrinthine franchise, consumable content, and sincerely-woven mythic gesamtkunstwerk. If that doesn't sum up our loopy post-truth world, I don't know what does. Star Wars is now an ungainly muddle of things, and very much beholden to the increasingly omnipresent forces of capitalism, just like human civilisation itself; both still struggling to stand up straight and carve their place amongst the stars.
Equally, my own thoughts toward the whole franchise-object-thing are a big muddle. It's actually strange for me to suddenly realise that Disney has now owned Star Wars for longer than I was talking about it as an artistic/world-changing/worthy thing before Disney started owning it. Jesus. (I personally start the clock of my genuine fascination with the films and the series entire at the mid-point between the release of AOTC and ROTS -- it doesn't mean I became a fan in that gap, but that was when I really started grappling with the prequels and their visionary qualities for the first time... or just checking out of "normal life"... you decide!). You know, I come neither to bury Disney, nor to praise them. It's hard to become excited about a corporation. But I'm still excited about Star Wars. Kinda. It still grabs my attention and lights up my neurones like little else out there. Although this is probably because we're all stuck in the Belly of the Beast and we don't realise it -- or we don't want to admit it.
So, basically...
What the f*ck am I doing with my life?
(As if the universe were answering in divine mockery, this is also my 2,000th post to Naberrie Fields, which didn't even exist until after the release of "Rogue One" -- already Disney's second Star Wars film to have escaped into the world. Naberrie Fields was established in 2017: the year of Star Wars' 40th anniversary. Crumbs!).
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 31, 2022 3:25:10 GMT
If my last post didn't really answer or address anything of any particular note, my apologies. It's a big topic, lots to mull over, plenty of discussion and reflection points, but I guess my brain wanted to kludge it with a lightweight, digressive response.
I think I largely agree with Smitty that the deal has been a mixed bag. But also, as he suggests, it could have been worse; and maybe, like Smitty, I was expecting it to be. If I try to look over everything that has happened, all the new material we have, with an "objective" eye (not that there's any such thing, but there's at least a way of looking at things, I suspect, without being deep-fried in negativity juices), then yeah: most of the material isn't half-bad. In fact, all of it is slightly amazing, and at least entertaining. That's kinda what we hope for out of Star Wars, isn't it? Otherwise we could all just go and read a book.
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 31, 2022 3:39:03 GMT
Yeah, sorry, whenever it comes to Disney, I guess I can't help being a bit glib. It's almost fun roasting them at this point.
But then, hey, it's cool seeing Star Wars evolve/devolve/break apart/dance on a hot plate/get cooties/try to Make Itself Great Again/fart around with its own mythology/try to overcome itself and die in the process. Or whatever.
I actually like a lot of the Disney content. Whoa. Hold your Orbaks. I didn't say love. Like. Liking is easy. Almost too easy. Love, on the other hand, is a dog from hell. Like is casual sex. Love is a totality: complete commitment, unconditional sacrifice, divine mercy. Oh, darn. Who says I love any part of Star Wars? Then again, we all know we do. I guess it's like kids. The Lucas "children" are fine people. The Disney ones are wayward and have special dietary requirements. But it isn't necessarily fair to say that one child is better than another. I'm extending GL's own analogy here. Like he said a few years ago, these are his kids, he raised them; and it's hard to pick a favourite. So there ya go.
One thing I think is quite impressive is just how much new content, of a very reasonable quality, Disney has put out in the last ten years. Forget arguments about how authentic or canonical or even aesthetic much of that content is alleged to be. At the very least, most of it is solid. The Sequel Trilogy. The Mandalorian. Rogue One. Solo. Obi-Wan. Andor. And all the other stuff I still haven't seen or is yet to be made. And yes, I'm going on record as saying that nothing is truly regrettable or awful. Yet. Again, I echo Smitty here. I really started laying into the Obi-Wan miniseries past the half-way point, but it's honestly still decent. Not amazing, not awe-inspiring, not mind-bending, but it at least clears a few bars, even at its worst -- and at its best, it still feels like something special. I guess that's sort of how I feel about the whole Disney-ownership thing in a nutshell.
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 31, 2022 3:44:05 GMT
I also remember asking myself, 10 years ago: How can there be a Sequel Trilogy without knocking the Force back out of balance? There is no story otherwise. They're gonna have to bring back Palpatine. I guess the Chosen One prophecy only referred to a VERY temporary state of balance.
7 years later...
"Somehow, Palpatine returned!"
Well duh.
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Post by jppiper on Oct 31, 2022 3:56:38 GMT
I can't believe it's been ten years. I really can't. I knew this day was upon us, but it's hard to work out where those ten years went. They've really flown by. Joe, you're right to say that the sale to Disney "came out of nowhere". It was like Luke blowing up the Death Star: a one-in-a-million happening that was totally unexpected. Of course, after the immediate shock of the news died down, it seemed like a logical course of action on GL's part. Mark Hamill himself said exactly the same thing right after it happened. Nevertheless, I was reeling about it for days, weeks, months -- even years. Even today, it's still a little hard to comprehend that Star Wars no longer belongs to George Lucas and that it's just some Disney thing. Or is it? Aye, that's the rub. While Disney very much intellectually owns the brand, Star Wars as a cultural object is stuck in this semi-autonomous netherworld for the moment: somewhere between high-budget fan fiction, corporate product, artistic endeavour, labyrinthine franchise, consumable content, and sincerely-woven mythic gesamtkunstwerk. If that doesn't sum up our loopy post-truth world, I don't know what does. Star Wars is now an ungainly muddle of things, and very much beholden to the increasingly omnipresent forces of capitalism, just like human civilisation itself; both still struggling to stand up straight and carve their place amongst the stars. Equally, my own thoughts toward the whole franchise-object-thing are a big muddle. It's actually strange for me to suddenly realise that Disney has now owned Star Wars for longer than I was talking about it as an artistic/world-changing/worthy thing before Disney started owning it. Jesus. (I personally start the clock of my genuine fascination with the films and the series entire at the mid-point between the release of AOTC and ROTS -- it doesn't mean I became a fan in that gap, but that was when I really started grappling with the prequels and their visionary qualities for the first time... or just checking out of "normal life"... you decide!). You know, I come neither to bury Disney, nor to praise them. It's hard to become excited about a corporation. But I'm still excited about Star Wars. Kinda. It still grabs my attention and lights up my neurones like little else out there. Although this is probably because we're all stuck in the Belly of the Beast and we don't realise it -- or we don't want to admit it. So, basically... What the f*ck am I doing with my life? (As if the universe were answering in divine mockery, this is also my 2,000th post to Naberrie Fields, which didn't even exist until after the release of "Rogue One" -- already Disney's second Star Wars film to have escaped into the world. Naberrie Fields was established in 2017: the year of Star Wars' 40th anniversary. Crumbs!). Congratulations! |
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 31, 2022 4:06:52 GMT
I also remember asking myself, 10 years ago: How can there be a Sequel Trilogy without knocking the Force back out of balance? There is no story otherwise. They're gonna have to bring back Palpatine. I guess the Chosen One prophecy only referred to a VERY temporary state of balance. 7 years later... "Somehow, Palpatine returned!" Well duh. Huh, interesting. I guess the line is like them saying, "Somehow, the Force went out of balance again!" As for the Sequel Trilogy: Yeah, in my little trinity of posts above, I deliberately avoided saying much about it. It's still the elephant in the room; or the fly in the ointment. Of course, TFA was like, to echo CG Tarkin from "Rogue One": a statement, not a manifesto. But in JJ's eagerness to re-do the OT and pander, he may have inadvertently announced and delivered the latter. Thus, the entire Disney transition was started off on the wrong foot, even though TFA itself was a rip-roaring commercial success. I think the Sequel Trilogy holds up if approached with the right mindset. It's not as coherent or in every sense as satisfying as the PT or the OT. It probably could never be; but, in some ways, it was like they weren't trying; or trying but in all the wrong ways. And, rather than build an entirely new foundation for the franchise, it ended up making a lot of SW fans pissed off, cynical, and downright miserable. In that regard, it could almost be the dictionary definition of the term "creative misfire". However, the prequels earned enormous detraction as well; and while I don't necessarily think the ST is as "recoverable" as the backlash to the prequels (can anyone seriously argue they're as bold or as visionary?), I think some people may be apt to look back more fondly on them with the passage of time. We'll just have to wait and see. The other Disney content is the other Disney content. Because, in Star Wars land, there has always been the Saga and everything else. Saga and Not-Saga. Always Two There Are. AT-ATs. ATTA(ck of the clones). For a lot of fans, the ST is like a bad marriage they're trying to forget; while the other content is all the rebound flings they've been having since. You can sense a genuine degree of pain behind the extolling of Not-Saga things vis-a-vis Saga things ("Better than the prequels!"; "Better than the ST by far!"; "Best thing since Empire!"; etc.). The Saga looms over the Not-Saga like Vader's Star Destroyer ruthlessly pursuing the Rebel Blockade Runner. The megalithic monstrosity of the Saga renders everything else small, feeble, banal, insipid. Look at us fools sucking on the teat of Andor. We all know the Saga is Number One; but we try to pretend Not-Saga things can be just as satisfying. We've placed ourselves in the friendzone and then we pretend to be okay about it. Mind you, some of that other content is pretty good, sometimes. It ain't the Saga, but... Ack. There I go again. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 31, 2022 4:14:01 GMT
LOL. I am an expert at what this feels like.
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Post by Cryogenic on Oct 31, 2022 4:20:12 GMT
LOL. I am an expert at what this feels like. I'm like JJ! An opportunist that sees an easy way to hit you in your feels! |
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 31, 2022 4:31:35 GMT
LOL. I am an expert at what this feels like. I'm like JJ! An opportunist that sees an easy way to hit you in your feels! But nobody in the JJ films praised the heck outta Padme. TOTALLY missed opportunity for feels inducement. |
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Post by eljedicolombiano on Oct 31, 2022 16:17:55 GMT
They didn’t have to bring Palpatine back - that just shows the utter failure of the imagination on the part of JJ
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Oct 31, 2022 16:33:06 GMT
They didn’t have to bring Palpatine back - that just shows the utter failure of the imagination on the part of JJ Bringing Palpatine back was wholly appropriate. The Dark Empire comic had it right. What, you wanted another fucking Snoke? |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Oct 31, 2022 17:00:48 GMT
They didn’t have to bring Palpatine back - that just shows the utter failure of the imagination on the part of JJ Bringing Palpatine back was wholly appropriate. The Dark Empire comic had it right. What, you wanted another fucking Snoke? Did you ever hear the Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise? |
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Post by jppiper on Oct 31, 2022 18:15:27 GMT
They didn’t have to bring Palpatine back - that just shows the utter failure of the imagination on the part of JJ Along with his hate for the Prequels |
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Post by smittysgelato on Oct 31, 2022 19:09:49 GMT
At any rate, maybe you don't need Palpatine, but you do need the Sith or some other dark side faction in play. Either way, you gotta knock the Force back out of balance. Let's face it though...Ian is your best option. Nobody can outdarkside Palps.
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