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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 28, 2022 4:10:30 GMT
The one thing lacking from all prior Disney+ Star Wars series (maybe even the Disney-era as a whole) is authentic geekdom as opposed to the usual fandom. We've had boat loads of fandom: callbacks and glorified cosplay and ritualistic pantomiming of the idea of Star Wars as a myth/folklore factory, broad two-or-three note character arcs, Tatooine and more Tatooine and lamely regurgitated crime lord plots and Sith variants 2.0 and Baby fuckin' Yoda ...all the usual branding and rebranding in a fashion universally accessible to normies. We've had a goddamn lightsaber spinner and Hayden visible beneath a shattered Vader mask, for Pete's sake. Yes, it does feel like Disney has inundated us with copious throat-clearing and self-conscious hat-tipping to former glories, or for want of better wording: sundry retro-istic gizmos and occasional flashy, attention-seeking moments; few or none of which seem to have coalesced into any greater aesthetic or etheric whole, leaving one questioning the whole premise of Disney-made Star Wars, sat alone at our keyboards or in company, raging in quiet despair. Then, suddenly, unexpectedly, along comes "Andor". Right. The series is consciously doing something different. In an interview with Variety I was reading last night, Tony Gilroy described "Andor" as "(using) the Star Wars canon as a host organism" -- provocative phrasing. It would have caused me to raise an eyebrow and even to have sent a few cyber glares his way a few years ago, but I actually find his framing agreeable. Yes, a host organism. Because: Why not? What is there to lose by taking a different tack? I like how the man speaks. He certainly displays great confidence; far away from the apologetic hucksterism of a populist like J.J. Abrams. Anyway, I gave the first three available episodes of "Andor" another spin last night ("Andor" is its own spinning lightsaber!), and lo and behold, I found its sullen, careful tone even more engaging than my first viewing. This might not sound like much of a thing, and maybe it isn't, but I openly ruminated earlier that maybe there was too much conceptual drift from Lucasian Star Wars; but I was really asking a question: "Is it rewatchable?" Turns out, subjectively speaking, it is -- so far, anyway. There's a kind of immodest modesty to the show that speaks to diligent, hunkered-down craftmanship. After a second viewing, I was left with the stronger impression of a "ship of many parts"; a kind of mood-tapestry of people and place where things come together slowly and ineluctably in symphonic fashion; one incident or detail gradually precipitating and inciting a dozen others. To this end, there's some pretty muscular symbolism in the third episode, where the clanking-metal motif on Cassian's hideout location of Ferrix, arrestingly woven in episodes two and three, reaches a kind of bivalent, maddening climax in the warehouse/factory during the shootout, and just after, when Cassian and Rael manage to pull off a last-second distraction, enabling them to speed to safety and finally leave the planet, escaping to some kind of temporary respite (and allowing the show to properly begin). Even the metal pieces clanging to the ground from the ceiling in the factory, many dangerously swinging on cables, has an analog, of sorts, with Cassian's mining friend rigging the Preox-Morlana shuttle, wherein it drags that dense chassis behind it when that hapless recruit takes off, causing it to veer hard-left and explode (which the sergeant is then shown in a visually fluid way reacting to). There's some strong direction and remarkably purposeful storytelling on display in this show -- (again) so far. That said, the show is also a little hard to describe. It's not, as you or I said, a show particularly concerned with delivering classic Lucasian thrills 'n' spills; seemingly worlds removed, in an almost "forbidden fruit" sort of way, from (quoting you directly) "the pulp and classical melodrama of Lucas". Very little swash has so far been buckled in this show, although (I now say more willingly) there are plenty of traces of classic Star Wars DNA in this thing. Stellan Skarsgård's character, for example, carries with him echoes of Toshiro Mifune's character from "The Hidden Fortress", as well as the Saga's very own Liam Neeson/Qui-Gon Jinn. He's a more grizzled version of a Jedi: a Jedi without the Jedi. When he tests Cassian out and basically tells him he's the person he's been looking for, emphasising in a tersely poetic turn of phrase, "Special people are hard to find, I didn't want to see you tossed on the pile", one is reminded of Qui-Gon's strong personal faith in Anakin; although, whereas Lucas' Saga could itself find room for a special kind of ambiguity or slow-burn curiosity and what-to-do on Qui-Gon's part (e.g., "I didn't actually come here to free slaves"), making a statement about the stymied, ineffective nature of centralised government in the process (Qui-Gon is a mystic, and something of a rebellious one, but still a protector/reinforcer of that system), "Andor"s version of Qui-Gon can only afford to ponder and dally for so long; and this character has obviously seen a fair chunk of the universe through similar yet very different eyes. It gives some measure of how "Andor" is already baked in its own juices, yet evidently draws inspiration and doffs its cap, however murky or discreet, from what has come before. And, of course, casting an exceptional "elder statesman" actor to sell the import of your silly (or not-so-silly) space drama, especially in a fatherly role, is something Lucas aced in his Saga -- if the inheritors of the flame are wise to this trope, then it is already being expressed very well in "Andor", in my opinion. But as I began the last paragraph by asserting, "Andor" is tricky to describe. By that, I mean, things happen; but not necessarily a lot of things. Three episodes down and we still don't really know where this is heading (per se); and while certain themes and devices are already present, nothing has quite congealed into a solid set of talking points or severely contested nodes of debate. Looking around, "Andor" has landed with a splash and a small dash of fanfare; but nothing like the sonic boom of the Sequel Trilogy (or loud train crash); nor the trending fever of "Obi-Wan Kenobi"; nor the cultic smash of "The Mandalorian". It's just sorta there for the moment. I hope it proves popular enough that it'll cross the threshold it needs to cross for Disney to plough ahead with the second season (allegedly its last). Perhaps, at the moment, it's too hard to get a handle on what "Andor" is, or if it'll prove any good. So far, however, its anti-conformity to certain Star Wars norms is compelling -- not, necessarily, because it's rebellious, but actually because it seems to be backing itself up with solid dynamics and a good deal of, well... something. The show has a style and a complexion, but it's not being quirky or grandiose or trying to get you to like it. The most refreshing thing about "Andor" might be how self-motivated it appears to be. If the essence of Star Wars is self-actualisation, or aspiring to self-actualisation, then "Andor" might just end up being the most "Star Wars" show of all; even if it is moving away from the known centre and risks indulging in frolicking in its own fringe nature; wherein it possibly fucks up storytelling or abandons it entirely in favour of... story gesticulating. But something tells me it's going to get it right. (However, it would be fair to say, right now, I'm cautiously optimistic). Yep. There's a slight thrill to Googling the new character, planet, ship, and organisation names, and then landing on a page like the Wookieepedia entry for Preox-Morlana. Just knowing that Star Wars is expanding and becoming a tad more Dune-esque -- or simply more lore-rich and term-heavy -- is cool. "Andor" appears to be the first Star Wars show to delve a little into lesser-known factions and gatherings and backstories of key "hidden" players in the more mythic carapace we know as "good vs. evil" or "Rebels vs. Empire". If the Saga is a river, an alt-verse prequel like "Andor" is getting into the tributaries and allowing us to contemplate some of the nitty-gritty granularity of what Lucas started. It's like one is more top-down, the other more bottom-up. We all love the Lucas approach (and it is so richly stratigraphic, with a nod to Seeker of the Whills and his current sig), but here is a genuine chance for a new kind of nuance and (to steal your wording) airport novella, through-the-weeds intrigue to emerge. Indeed. I'm trying to contain my slowly growing excitement and doing my best to remain level. My enthusiasm toward "Obi-Wan" quickly burned itself out; and when that happens enough times, with anything in life, you naturally grow more cynical (I could be a character in "Andor", if I could just curb some of my countervailing Jar Jar ebullience, couldn't I?). One significant difference to be hopeful about is that this first season of "Andor" is twelve episodes long (and all the episodes have titles). With three episodes gone, there's still nine to go. Which is as many as the first season of "The Mandalorian". Now, "The Mandalorian" also starts with a three-part opener, but you're already down to five episodes remaining (of the first season) when that is over. So, from a certain point of view, "Andor" is being more generous with the time it's allowing the rest of the story to play out. However, it is also hard-limited to two seasons; somewhat limiting the scope for further storylines. On the other hand, if it results in twenty four episodes of roughly thirty minutes each (on average), that's still the equivalent run-time of six feature films. And based on the quality so far, it could end up being Disney's finest Star Wars outing. And if that is the case, it'll be really strange to think that it took Disney allowing Star Wars to become more gritty and adult -- Disney! Of all studios!!! -- that finally caused something of genuine dramatic heft to emerge from its clutches. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 28, 2022 5:03:28 GMT
As long as it is symbiotic and not parasitic, that'll be cool.  |
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Post by Ingram on Sept 28, 2022 9:34:28 GMT
Okay, shit. This is fast becoming *thinks* uncomfortably good.
Despite not possessing a single moment of action this latest episode, 4, 'Aldhani', held my engagement fully. The subplot & character roster continues to expand yet the narrative is cutting razor sharp. So much has been poured into the minutiae. Coruscant is back on display, now under Imperial rule, robbed of its jewelry. It's cold and anemic. Rural Scottish (I'm hazarding) highlands double nicely for a planetscape that is given time to breathe as Andor and this prickly Vel lady traverse both literally and, with each other, figuratively. If said backdrop is unimaginative, un-alien, it's also tapping into a Celtic primevalry as an indefinite-yet-lingering point of study where the ST only ever really managed screensaver vistas for their own sake. Everyone new, Rebels and Empire alike, are almost mordantly British...in a manner apropos, and where only Luna and Skarsgård stand apart (I don't recall the character Syril Karn uttering a single line, which was an interesting choice in and of itself). And Skarsgård is committing some kinda grand theft television here, as his little moment transforming Rael from a freedom fighter into some silly-ass fop really seals the deal on what this show is going to be; his facade with Mon Mothma was enough to make me hit replay just to soak in everything that transpires both in their well-directed languages and the set design.
This thing is leveling out really well, guys. I still don't know how much of a lasting positive takeaway I'll have, or if at all, but the journey so far has me locked in.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 28, 2022 19:43:03 GMT
Right. The series is consciously doing something different. In an interview with Variety I was reading last night, Tony Gilroy described "Andor" as "(using) the Star Wars canon as a host organism" -- provocative phrasing. It would have caused me to raise an eyebrow and even to have sent a few cyber glares his way a few years ago, but I actually find his framing agreeable. Yes, a host organism. Because: Why not? What is there to lose by taking a different tack? I like how the man speaks. He certainly displays great confidence; far away from the apologetic hucksterism of a populist like J.J. Abrams. Thanks for posting that link, it's a very illuminating interview I hadn't seen before. That quote from Gilroy is how I felt about this series from the moment I started watching episode one. It felt like something new being added on top of the foundation that Lucas laid down in creating this galaxy, instead of a facsimile like the sequel trilogy, with its glossy reproductions of OT sets, locations and characters. I especially liked this quote from that interview: I really like the sound of that. Coupled with the majestic way Coruscant is shown and proclaimed as the "capital of the galaxy," I'm getting the sense here that the writer treats all of Lucas' Star Wars with respect. With the other series I was still getting some sense of OT favoritism. This series seems to treat both trilogies as equally real, and dives deep to create a brand new story in their world. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 28, 2022 20:33:54 GMT
Okay, shit. This is fast becoming *thinks* uncomfortably good.
Worth renewing one's subscription for it? |
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Post by Ingram on Sept 28, 2022 21:09:35 GMT
Okay, shit. This is fast becoming *thinks* uncomfortably good.
Worth renewing one's subscription for it? Theoretically. If one remained curiously into Star Wars. I'm assuming you canceled yours post Obi-Wan Kenobi? If you're trying to cut down on bills then maybe hold off until the series in question has run its course, then renew, binge and cancel again.
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 28, 2022 23:58:57 GMT
Okay, shit. This is fast becoming *thinks* uncomfortably good. Well, double shit. Now I'm gonna have to watch the new episode of "Andor". Back later, fellas... |
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 29, 2022 1:56:12 GMT
So that's the fourth episode ticked off the list, and yes, "Andor" is holding up very well so far -- well, in my opinion, at this early stage, at least.
Now, in fairness, I can't lie and say it's super exciting, but it's going straight and steady in a way that is surprising and welcome. "Obi-Wan", even with all its deficiencies and depredations, was probably a fair bit more exciting by its own fourth episode, it has to be said; yet if that series was a shooting star, "Andor" is more of a schooner; or a submarine: moving steadily and purposefully, even nimbly, but still taking its time and performing every ship operation in accordance with the vicissitudes of the ocean and the imperatives of its mission. Imagine lighting one hundred candles with a box of matches one candle at a time; versus igniting all them at once with a flame-thrower. A hyperbolic metaphor, to be sure, but one that gives some illustration of the difference. I miss the febrility and pulpiness of "Obi-Wan" a little bit; but "Andor" is moving with such restraint and precision that one has to admire the procedural ballsiness of it and the way it refuses to rush itself over any narrative or stylistic cliff edge. Cool.
At the same time, some delicate balance is seemingly being struck between a sci-fi, near-future tincture (yes, I know: Star Wars is technically "A long time ago"), with hints of a "Children Of Men"-style apocalypse; to yes, as that reference hopefully (if you've seen that film) suggests: something remarkably more Earth-like and present-day. Seeing the young security inspector guy (Syril Karn) skulking off to his mother's house, which is apparently located in a vast tenement building, evocative of fugly 1960s suburban concrete futurism, as captured and coldly satirised to great effect in Stanley Kubrick's now-iconic "A Clockwork Orange", was, well... a trip. You know, these apartment blocks still actually exist in the UK and parts of Europe. Very strange seeing something like this in Star Wars -- but, yet again, "Andor" seems to be positioning itself on the blistering edge of the franchise's established aesthetic and storytelling rules. Then there's the Scottish Highlands planet putting in a lengthy appearance -- perhaps the series' roundabout way of saying "Hi" to Ahch-To in "The Last Jedi". I half-expected bagpipes to show up or for everyone at the rebel camp to be eating haggis.
Even this series' take on "Coruscant" is a little bit more "Blade Runner 2049"/"Gattaca"-esque than what Lucas did (Art Deco/1920s futurism). Sort of accentuating a modernist vibe, if slightly shunning the Technicolor plushness and inviting eroticism of Lucas' dreamy "Flash Gordon" apotheosis. Ah, well. These wayward Disney children, eh?
I think there was some kind of story to this episode; but as with the the first three installments, we seem to be in another multi-part storytelling block. The episode ends somewhat abruptly and anti-climactically. And this is slightly surprising, given that it's around forty minutes in length, not including the recap or the end credits. So, again, they're definitely taking their time here. As the fourth episode of the series, some crude analog can be made with the aforementioned "Obi-Wan". Both include a small group of rebels in a secret hideout that the protagonist is taken to where his flesh wounds are treated after narrowly escaping with his life, thanks to people with connections to the rebel underground, in the previous episode. Then there's a mission-briefing scene where an improbable infiltration of an Imperial base is planned. And in both there are dark-skinned doubters (wait: I can type that here with a semi straight face, can't I?). Of course, in "Obi-Wan", the briefing and the mission occur virtually stepwise in the same episode; in "Andor", we basically have the briefing at the end of the episode; with the mission itself still to happen. Taking. Its. Time.
It was great seeing Genevieve O'Reilly as Senator Mon Mothma again. Not only does she have an interesting face, but she's one hell of an actress. Not that I really know her other work, mind you. But she and Stellan Skarsgård are clearly two of the best actors in televisual Star Wars. Heck, Star Wars, period. They each command attention and automatically have this aura to them. Their lone scene together was a real highlight of the episode. And they interacted in a pretty well-dressed set. I can understand what Ingram means about needing to replay that scene to soak up the details of their dialogue and the props around them.
There were lots of good little touches in this episode. Like when Luthen puts his ship in hyperdrive and Cassian slams against the wall. There's a real tactile quality to the series that seems more reminiscent of "The Mandalorian"; yet still its own thing. In fact, the opening scene between Cassian and Luthen, while it may have been bordering on cliche, was very well-written, well-acted, and well-directed; enough to disguise the shopworn premise of an old, grizzled mentor recruiting a young, unwilling charge and convincing him not to run away or refuse the call -- so well done are many of the scenes in "Andor" that the series maintains an artistry to its mundanity, never (so far) becoming mediocre or feeling like it is going through the motions. It really does help, however, that Skarsgård has a ton of presence. Even when, as Ingram pointed out, he becomes a foppish rogue, just that transition is enough to sell the underlying personality and attitude of the show by itself.
I just hope the series isn't going to become boring and a bit too struggling/vain/suspicious/frustrated human pitted against struggling/vain/suspicious/frustrated human. Star Wars and many genre entertainments are in danger of reducing to that level of drama and solemnity when there isn't enough attention or energy being given to wider visionary aspects. Yet, so far, the ensemble nature of the show, but strongly anchored to Luthen and Cassian (well, I hope), is working in its favour. I do wonder if it won't become too bleak and become a tad insipid when we're past the half-way mark. But like Cassian himself, the show presently holds a lot of promise. Let's see what you've got, "Andor".
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 29, 2022 4:17:09 GMT
I have one word to summarize episode 4: med-nog.
LOL! I love it.
Mon Mothma though...Gotta mention her. I mean, that one moment where she gives her husband shit for inviting the cats who are responsible for shutting down a shipping lane that will result in famine?...THAT was a Padme-esque moment. Mon Mothma is representing for my girl Padme! I love it.
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Post by Ingram on Sept 29, 2022 10:23:27 GMT
I just hope the series isn't going to become boring and a bit too struggling/vain/suspicious/frustrated human pitted against struggling/vain/suspicious/frustrated human. Star Wars and many genre entertainments are in danger of reducing to that level of drama and solemnity when there isn't enough attention or energy being given to wider visionary aspects. Yet, so far, the ensemble nature of the show, but strongly anchored to Luthen and Cassian (well, I hope), is working in its favour. I do wonder if it won't become too bleak and become a tad insipid when we're past the half-way mark. But like Cassian himself, the show presently holds a lot of promise. Let's see what you've got, "Andor". I can't help but think the writers chimed in on this very aspect with a bit of a wink-wink to audiences. When Mon Mothma and her effete husband have a tiff over the latter's impending dinner party with fellow douche bag Imperial senators, she walks away from the decadence with aversion while his smarmy rebuke is structured as a sentence but delivered as a statement: "Must everything be boring and sad." -- scene end.
I think, hope, at least that the wider visionary aspects of the show are inherent by virtue of the baked-in Rebels vs. Empire lore. It's yet another kind of 'duel of the fates' wherein the storytelling need only focus on individual cogs of galactic wheels that are not only already in motion but have since been entertained on a more external epic war scale via Lucas' saga films. If they're smart they'll let the visionary aspects speak for themselves courtesy of those films. But I also agree that so much of streaming teledrama is just rote exchanges and tit-for-tats between characters haunted and ambivalent merely as a scripted contrivance. I kinda don't mind it here too much just so long as the plot crackles. That's all I'm really asking for: thoughtfully outlined stakes demanding inventive logistics and gamesmanship, and maybe some sly performances and well-staged suspense set-pieces along the way.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 29, 2022 13:51:31 GMT
Worth renewing one's subscription for it?
Theoretically. If one remained curiously into Star Wars. I'm assuming you canceled yours post Obi-Wan Kenobi? If you're trying to cut down on bills then maybe hold off until the series in question has run its course, then renew, binge and cancel again.
I was barely watching it in August, so I decided to cancel it after seeing the OWK BTS programme earlier this month. I'm terrible for watching series in the summer, the long evenings aren't conductive to it.
I do have another VOD subscription, from a very generous 75% off discount I got by email. Waiting for Disney to offer me similar...
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 29, 2022 15:16:35 GMT
As long as it is symbiotic and not parasitic, that'll be cool. Midi-chlorians! Right. The series is consciously doing something different. In an interview with Variety I was reading last night, Tony Gilroy described "Andor" as "(using) the Star Wars canon as a host organism" -- provocative phrasing. It would have caused me to raise an eyebrow and even to have sent a few cyber glares his way a few years ago, but I actually find his framing agreeable. Yes, a host organism. Because: Why not? What is there to lose by taking a different tack? I like how the man speaks. He certainly displays great confidence; far away from the apologetic hucksterism of a populist like J.J. Abrams. Thanks for posting that link, it's a very illuminating interview I hadn't seen before. That quote from Gilroy is how I felt about this series from the moment I started watching episode one. It felt like something new being added on top of the foundation that Lucas laid down in creating this galaxy, instead of a facsimile like the sequel trilogy, with its glossy reproductions of OT sets, locations and characters. I especially liked this quote from that interview: I really like the sound of that. Did you catch that sideways bash of the Sequel Trilogy and its pandering construction? I really like the balls and perspective of this guy. He reminds me of Ira Steven Behr (showrunner and executive producer of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"). Mon Mothma though...Gotta mention her. I mean, that one moment where she gives her husband shit for inviting the cats who are responsible for shutting down a shipping lane that will result in famine?...THAT was a Padme-esque moment. Mon Mothma is representing for my girl Padme! I love it. Oh, totally! The spirit of Padme and the best of the Old Republic is with her. Not to mention her expensive tastes.  That's one swanky pad (uh-may) (this show is really killing it with the production design -- and with everything else). I just hope the series isn't going to become boring and a bit too struggling/vain/suspicious/frustrated human pitted against struggling/vain/suspicious/frustrated human. Star Wars and many genre entertainments are in danger of reducing to that level of drama and solemnity when there isn't enough attention or energy being given to wider visionary aspects. Yet, so far, the ensemble nature of the show, but strongly anchored to Luthen and Cassian (well, I hope), is working in its favour. I do wonder if it won't become too bleak and become a tad insipid when we're past the half-way mark. But like Cassian himself, the show presently holds a lot of promise. Let's see what you've got, "Andor". I can't help but think the writers chimed in on this very aspect with a bit of a wink-wink to audiences. When Mon Mothma and her effete husband have a tiff over the latter's impending dinner party with fellow douche bag Imperial senators, she walks away from the decadence with aversion while his smarmy rebuke is structured as a sentence but delivered as a statement: "Must everything be boring and sad." -- scene end. Huh. You liked that, too. One of a billion diggable moments in this series so far, isn't it? I'm sure, on some level, they were going for the meme value there; and yes, by the same token, it shows some real self-awareness on the writers' and director's parts, punctuating an otherwise mildly antagonistic scene in a sudden and shouty way with that exact line. There's a very impressive and consistent tartness to this show so far. People get contradicted, berated, rebuked, show fear, fall apart; and it all feels natural, organic, believable. I'm shocked and stoked that something from Disney is suddenly this good.
I feel the same way.
*end conversation*
But no, really, I do. You're right that the heavy operatic lifting has been done already and this show can just settle into the grooves. It doesn't have to be a fancy fireworks display. A bit of fireside kindling is fine. Well, a lot of fireside kindling, artistically done. And so far, it feels like we're on-course for that. Hell, the next episode promises to go off like "Dambusters" (quite literally), being the yin to the fourth episode's yang: the third act of "Rogue One" in micro. But I'm not placing expectations either way. The show has simply been done with such intelligence so far, it's hard to see it all being thrown away over the next eight episodes, but I could be wrong. I think we're in for quite the ride; even if a lot of it is on the more plot-y and character-driven side of things. The sexiness of this show does not seem to lie in elaborate action sequences, shock-reveal histrionics, or melodramatic teasing and bluster; but rather, in the careful thickening of the stew: in intrigue, in maneuvering, in layered development. This is not potboiler television. This is a series with a great deal of care and attention and whip-smart thinking behind it.
Theoretically. If one remained curiously into Star Wars. I'm assuming you canceled yours post Obi-Wan Kenobi? If you're trying to cut down on bills then maybe hold off until the series in question has run its course, then renew, binge and cancel again.
I was barely watching it in August, so I decided to cancel it after seeing the OWK BTS programme earlier this month. I'm terrible for watching series in the summer, the long evenings aren't conductive to it. Yeah, I prefer to watch programmes at night, when the sky is dark, and it's cold outside, with a warm cup of tea in my hands. Easier to focus on the content and more enjoyable to get lost inside of it then. Perhaps Ingram is right to still offer a note of caution and suggest you wait a while, but "Andor" gets my vote as the best piece of live-action Star Wars television content -- by a country mile. It is genuinely outstanding in all areas: writing, acting, casting, directing, cinematography, production design, visual effects, sound design, music, editing. And the tone of it is entirely on-point for the kind of storytelling that it appears to be attempting. I do worry it's not going to prove as popular as the previous Star Wars television shows, but it's (so far) the best-made and most compelling of the bunch, by far. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 29, 2022 18:14:58 GMT
It blows my mind that I enjoy Andor, The Mandalorian, and The Book of Boba Fett more than Obi-Wan Kenobi. I'm still letting that fact sink in.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 29, 2022 18:33:02 GMT
the Old Republic is with her. That's the Galactic Republic to a prequelist
Lucas retconned himself by making it 1,000 years old, as per Palpatine in Episode II. That means either Obi-Wan was wrong when he spoke of "1,000 generations" (~30,000 years) or his words have to be re-interpreted, which of course was already done in V with Luke's parentage.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 29, 2022 19:43:29 GMT
Thanks for posting that link, it's a very illuminating interview I hadn't seen before. That quote from Gilroy is how I felt about this series from the moment I started watching episode one. It felt like something new being added on top of the foundation that Lucas laid down in creating this galaxy, instead of a facsimile like the sequel trilogy, with its glossy reproductions of OT sets, locations and characters. I especially liked this quote from that interview: I really like the sound of that. Did you catch that sideways bash of the Sequel Trilogy and its pandering construction? I really like the balls and perspective of this guy. He reminds me of Ira Steven Behr (showrunner and executive producer of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"). Yeah, I figured it was probably a swipe at the sequels, perhaps even the other Disney+ shows. Star Wars needs someone with a strong, singular vision like Lucas, and Gilroy is showing that he may be the man with the plan. I was never a huge fan of Filoni. I think he has a tendency to pander with fan service. It does sound like Gilroy takes a swipe particularly at Filoni's shows when he says This is the direction Star Wars should go. Embrace the totality of Lucas' Star Wars galaxy, and tell new stories with new characters within it. It blows my mind that I enjoy Andor, The Mandalorian, and The Book of Boba Fett more than Obi-Wan Kenobi. I'm still letting that fact sink in. I enjoyed half of Boba, and less than that of Obi-Wan. Andor and The Mandalorian are clearly above the rest for me. It seems whenever Disney tries to use the Lucas saga characters, things don't go that well. Their stuff with new characters is much better. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 29, 2022 19:48:30 GMT
It blows my mind that I enjoy Andor, The Mandalorian, and The Book of Boba Fett more than Obi-Wan Kenobi. I'm still letting that fact sink in. I guess there were a lot of expectations foist onto "Obi-Wan Kenobi", and sadly, it didn't deliver. Fitfully, perhaps, but there was just too much corner-cutting, and not enough discipline or mastery in the cinematography, effects, writing, acting, and direction. I think there were good intentions behind it, but it overall came out as sloppy and disappointing. Disney had a lot of goodwill for the project from fans, and then it dropped the ball, again. Of course, there are fans who think highly of it, but the general online response is very telling. Where "Andor" might get into trouble is in developing a hardcore fanbase of its own, but at the expense of maybe generating the same kind of wider buzz that "Obi-Wan" did, or the geek chic of "The Mandalorian" and the novelty of it being Star Wars' first foray into live-action television. "Andor" doesn't really have the same selling points. That would be a great shame, based on the quality of these first four episodes, but I can see it happening. People are fickle; and while there may be a clamour for substance, it is often rejected or ignored when it arrives. the Old Republic is with her. That's the Galactic Republic to a prequelist It was meant affectionately.  The "old" nomenclature, in fact, is still valid. First and foremost, it was how Lucas himself -- via Alan Dean Foster -- referred to it in the prologue to the novelisation of the original movie, first published in 1976: coffeewithkenobi.com/an-examination-of-the-prologue-of-the-star-wars-novelization-by-guest-blogger-mike-macdonald/Here, from that link, is the full text: The Galactic Republic is also referred to as the Old Republic in both canon and Legends material: starwars.fandom.com/wiki/The_Old_RepublicThe present canon entry for the Galactic Republic begins as follows: starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Galactic_RepublicHere is how the present canon entry begins for the Republic Era: starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Republic_EraHere is the present canon entry and how it begins for the fall of the Old Republic: starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Fall_of_the_Old_Republic------------------------ Now, technically, yes, the Old Republic denotes a timeframe before the modern Galactic Republic that the PT is set within, which is how the latter two entries describe the former term. However, the Old Republic link in the last entry ("fall of the Old Republic") points circuitously back to the entry for the Galactic Republic, as provided above. Within the regnancy of the Galactic Republic -- i.e., the Age of Republic or the Great Peace -- that the prequels are set within, the Old Republic had already been and gone, to be supplanted by the modern Galactic Republic, which the Sith secretly subverted and were eventually able to change into the Galactic Empire. However, once the Empire formed (or was declared), all of the former span of the Republic was sometimes referred to as the Old Republic, just as Obi-Wan does when describing the Jedi and the rise of the Empire to Luke in ANH. After all, the Republic is meant to have existed for some 25,000 years. Thus, when it comes to the final 1,000 years of its lifetime, we're really just talking loose change. Or, in the words of Obi-Wan himself: "You're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." "Galactic Republic", you might say, is the formal organisational term. "Old Republic" (post-ROTS) refers more to a vanished way of life and the aegis of enlightenment that the formation of the Galactic Empire, risen from the ashes of the Galactic Republic, all but snuffed out. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 29, 2022 20:00:11 GMT
Obviously, since this is a show about the Rebellion, you are going to have legacy characters show up. Like Mon Mothma and Saw being particularly important.
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Post by Ingram on Sept 29, 2022 20:46:57 GMT
I was barely watching it in August, so I decided to cancel it after seeing the OWK BTS programme earlier this month. I'm terrible for watching series in the summer, the long evenings aren't conductive to it. Yeah, I prefer to watch programmes at night, when the sky is dark, and it's cold outside, with a warm cup of tea in my hands. Easier to focus on the content and more enjoyable to get lost inside of it then. Perhaps Ingram is right to still offer a note of caution and suggest you wait a while... Exploit Disney, don't let Disney exploit you, I suppose is all I'm saying. I'm with Duke in that I don't watch shit during the day hours, any time of the year—in my case I don't even own a tablet or smartphone of any kind (never have) so I don't take media with me wherever I go. Late September was an odd choice to premier Andor; here stateside, a transitional season where baked Summer gives way to Fall temperature drops. Just seems kinda muted but perhaps that was the point. If anything, I think the spectral 'boogeyman' vibes of Obi-Wan Kenobi might've better suited the Halloween month, whereas the disposition of Andor so far I think would've have benefited during a Nov-Dec-Jan phase at the earliest. I too agree that cold nights add a certain cozying up factor, especially when in this case one is cozying up to byzantine galactic intrigue. So Duke should perhaps consider waiting just yet.
But then I also have a glint in my eye for this upcoming goofy looking Willow series which feels like the perfect kind of Hallmark Entertainment-style fantasy to nestle into the holiday season. Compared to the exposition doldrums that constitute House of Dragons and The Rings of Power, neither of which I give a quantum of fucks, I find promise in diving into Lucasian-lite '80s fantasy revival. Even little Ronnie Howard is involved along with (Solo collaborator) Jonathan Kasdan. And it's shot in Wales. And James Newton Howard will score it. C'mon...!
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 29, 2022 22:15:00 GMT
Did you catch that sideways bash of the Sequel Trilogy and its pandering construction? I really like the balls and perspective of this guy. He reminds me of Ira Steven Behr (showrunner and executive producer of "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine"). Yeah, I figured it was probably a swipe at the sequels, perhaps even the other Disney+ shows. Well, the rot started with the sequels, but you're right that he was probably also taking a swipe at the other Disney+ shows. Now, see, there is another great quote. He totally has the phrasing of a writer. And yes, I agree with you. We've seen and drank enough memberberry smoothies from Disney to last a lifetime. Once more, I agree with you. They generally can't get the old characters right; and they tend to bring everything to a halt when they're focused on. The one exception might be C-3PO in "The Rise Of Skywalker" (who, at least, is pretty amusing in that movie). Occasionally, they strike gold -- but introducing new characters, planets, and plot elements is, I think, the best (and really: only) way to go. There's only so many times you can return to the same well. Fans may still have issues with the prequels, but look how many new characters Lucas introduced in TPM. Those, along with the new locations, costumes, and in-universe technology, are a big part of why that movie still feels so fresh and vibrant over twenty years later. Obviously, since this is a show about the Rebellion, you are going to have legacy characters show up. Like Mon Mothma and Saw being particularly important. Of course. Gilroy never says otherwise. We've now seen Mon Mothma and heard Saw's name mentioned in the latest episode. Did any part of Mon Mothma's appearance feel like fan service to you? If you simply enjoyed her being there and weren't in any way distracted by her appearance, then maybe Gilroy and Co. got it right. I think she fit in with the episode perfectly. I also liked the duality of her looking down/concerned on her own in the airspeeder as it ascended through the sky traffic, resonating with Syril disappearing from the sunny surface of Coruscant and looking glum as he descended to the lower purgatorial depths in the elevator. Yeah, I prefer to watch programmes at night, when the sky is dark, and it's cold outside, with a warm cup of tea in my hands. Easier to focus on the content and more enjoyable to get lost inside of it then. Perhaps Ingram is right to still offer a note of caution and suggest you wait a while... Exploit Disney, don't let Disney exploit you, I suppose is all I'm saying. I'm with Duke in that I don't watch shit during the day hours, any time of the year—in my case I don't even own a tablet or smartphone of any kind (never have) so I don't take media with me wherever I go. I own a smartphone, but I don't use it much -- certainly not to watch online content. I have my personal computer for that. Anyway, yeah, I agree with the sentiment. Of course, Disney is in the business to make money; how much we allow Disney to take is up to us. Nice thoughts. Yeah, the "Obi-Wan" show had quite a horror-movie vibe, didn't it? And "Andor" intrinsically feels colder. There are even blatant references to the cold, what with Cassian being told by his work pal to remind his foster mother to turn on the heating, and Aldhani in the latest episode coming off, in true Scottish Highlands fashion, as being pretty chilly. I'm the same. Don't care for those other shows. After what you just said here, I looked it up and found that the new "Willow" has apparently been filmed in parts of Pembrokeshire (South Wales). I live in the Snowdonia region of Wales (North Wales). It's very scenic in this region. I have a good friend who lives in Cardiff (the capital). North Wales is really the denser and more classically "Welsh" part, while the capital is a livelier place and more overtly English-speaking. There are more Welsh speakers in the South, actually; but there's a higher concentration of Welsh speakers in the North. I quite like it here, but I'm a little removed from major cities. I'm sure the new "Willow" will have a charm of its own. |
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Post by Ingram on Sept 29, 2022 23:08:03 GMT
I'm the same. Don't care for those other shows. After what you just said here, I looked it up and found that the new "Willow" has apparently been filmed in parts of Pembrokeshire (South Wales). I live in the Snowdonia region of Wales (North Wales). It's very scenic in this region. I have a good friend who lives in Cardiff (the capital). North Wales is really the denser and more classically "Welsh" part, while the capital is a livelier place and more overtly English-speaking. There are more Welsh speakers in the South, actually; but there's a higher concentration of Welsh speakers in the North. I quite like it here, but I'm a little removed from major cities. Snowdonia is like your guys' Yosemite or Grand Canyon, and props to one of only two nations on Earth with nothing less than a goddamn dragon on its flag; the day Wales goes to war with Bhutan will be a day long remembered.
Obviously, since this is a show about the Rebellion, you are going to have legacy characters show up. Like Mon Mothma and Saw being particularly important. Of course. Gilroy never says otherwise. We've now seen Mon Mothma and heard Saw's name mentioned in the latest episode. Did any part of Mon Mothma's appearance feel like fan service to you? If you simply enjoyed her being there and weren't in any way distracted by her appearance, then maybe Gilroy and Co. got it right. I think she fit in with the episode perfectly. I also liked the duality of her looking down/concerned on her own in the airspeeder as it ascended through the sky traffic... Can we just take a moment to appreciate her shiny blue 'n' silver airspeeder, period? I swear it was the 1975 Lincoln Continental of airspeeders.
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That's one swanky pad (uh-may) (this show is really killing it with the production design -- and with everything else).