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Post by smittysgelato on Nov 27, 2022 6:21:57 GMT
Trust me, I hate that I liked Andor more.  It really doesn't sit well with me. I will eventually watch Obi-Wan again and try hard to like it but...But for now, with Christmas approaching, I'm feeling a Saga re-watch. When can I expect an Incel Saga boxed-set from Disney? xD |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Nov 27, 2022 17:19:42 GMT
Why I ended up liking Obi-Wan despite being very critical of it at first is largely due to the last episode's ending, when Qui-Gon finally appears to a newly rejuvinated Obi-Wan and says "I was always here. You just weren't ready to see." Despite Obi-Wan going the length of the series without his faith in the Jedi and the Force, at the end, he reconnects with his spiritual side. That moment seems to be missing from Andor, and thus is its faith in Star Wars as a whole, especially in light of Tony Gilroy's comments. Andor did not have the faith or confidence to step into the realm of space opera or Saturday matinee serial which is the stylistic design of Star Wars. Andor seemed very self-conscious about being taken "seriously", which is especially disappointing because even Rogue One wasn't afraid of its connection to the Lucas saga. It embraced that connection and had flashes of the spiritual, and of the operatic characteristic of the serials that inspired Star Wars. I commend Deborah Chow and the Obi-Wan series for going to lengths to tie itself to the prequels and the Lucas saga, stylistically and narratively. Andor could have featured the Force or mentions of it at least, maybe through the Guardians of the Whills, which Andor knows about in Rogue One. Nothing in Rogue One indicates (as far as I remember) that Andor doesn't believe in the Force. All of this puts doubt in the claims that Gilroy "fixed" Rogue One. It was the original writer of RO that put in the Guardians of the Whills, and thus the movie's heart. That is missing from Andor the series. I have a hunch that like Han Solo in ANH, Tony Gilroy thinks the Force is a bunch of mumbo jumbo, which is why he didn't include it in his series.
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Post by jppiper on Nov 27, 2022 19:21:06 GMT
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Post by Samnz on Nov 28, 2022 12:36:47 GMT
The spiritual aspect has always fascinated me the most about Star Wars, and I think it's the glue that holds the entire thing together. Anything that strays too far from that core element is not *my* Star Wars. Also, I find the rebellion to be one of the least interesting things in SW, and the show's whole approach of trying to be a serious drama is at odds with what I think SW is stylistically meant to be. The acting is good and all, but something is missing. Even Rogue One had a pretty strong spiritual streak and an operatic style that fit in with the Lucas saga, but this series is just dull and soulless. That's what happens when you take things too seriously I'd say taking things and also themselves - as filmmakers - too seriously is a big part of the problem that comes with many modern Star Wars content. George always had a hint of self-irony surrounding himself and his movies and he always knew that Star Wars is not only set in today's world (and politics, and socienty, and religion etc.), but also in the past and in the future. He used to be able to say things and send messages without saying them explicitly, because it was not about what's being said, but what's the meaning behind it. Personally, I am not primarily drawn to Star Wars by the spirituality (because the political dimension of the Prequels was at least as interesting), but I totally get what Seeker of the Whills means. I didn't know Pizza Hawaii was Canadian, though. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Nov 28, 2022 19:41:15 GMT
Arguably, the political dimension of Star Wars is an expression of the spiritual. If you can trap people in the prison of the mind, it can break their spirit, and therefore make them easier to oppress/control.
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Post by Samnz on Apr 1, 2023 18:04:45 GMT
Maybe I was just in the wrong mood but I think the first episode of Andor was boring as hell. And yet another planet that looks like Tatooine with worse weather. Starting the second episode, hoping for improvement.
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Post by Cryogenic on Apr 14, 2023 19:20:45 GMT
Maybe I was just in the wrong mood but I think the first episode of Andor was boring as hell. And yet another planet that looks like Tatooine with worse weather. Starting the second episode, hoping for improvement. How are you, ah... enjoying "Andor", Samnz? You know, I am where I was with this show the last time I posted. But something slightly amusing happened recently. A new girl started at my current workplace a week before Christmas, and promptly left a few weeks ago. She was attractive and I had an instant crush on her. Turns out, she acted in this BBC programme for kids, years ago (when she herself was still in her teens), and then a short film, before seemingly giving up acting entirely. Well, there are a few character reels (centered on her character) on YouTube. She plays this rather loudmouthed, bratty schoolgirl, and there is a sympathetic teacher, whom she thinks is trolling her by being patient and wanting to help her. I was looking at that teacher going, "Hang on... That's the dude from Andor!" starwars.fandom.com/wiki/BlevinAnd this was only a few weeks after "Andor" had finished streaming on Disney+. I've been obsessed with Star Wars for so long, now it's manifesting in my everyday life. But then, it always has been. |
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Post by Samnz on Apr 15, 2023 12:59:02 GMT
It's okay, I guess. I think the series improved upon the first two episodes but falls flat in many regards. I haven't finished the series yet. I quite like the Mon Mothma scenes, especially because Genevieve O'Reilly plays her so well and I was stunned to see the Senate again after having to hear for years how politics are "boring" and "don't belong" to Star Wars... even though George's politics were a lot more universal and less explicit than Disney's. I also think that they are really overdoing the Nazi visuals with the Empire. Again, George pictured the Empire as a fascist government that resembled many dictatorships of past and present, Disney seems to be limited to Nazi imagery. Everything feels limited, like their whole understanding of history and culture. The series also lacks the ambition and that sense of grandeur and wonder that is an integral art of Star Wars for me. Andor, as a character, is probably the most boring part of the whole series. And most of the costumes on Coruscant look like Star Trek, not Star Wars. So yeah, it's okay, I guess  I quite like to watch an episode after a hard work day when my brain is already on stand-by. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Apr 15, 2023 21:16:12 GMT
Ah! Your train has pulled into that station already. Welcome. Yes. I think the first three episodes were released simultaneously because the first two aren't very strong on their own. You really need that third one to justify and make good on the slow build-up of the first two. Arguably, the rest of the series should have been released in similar chunks, given that two or three episodes tends to constitute a discrete story block (e.g., *mild spoilers*: the heist, the prison, and the last few episodes including the climax). All in all, "Andor" is solid but not spectacular. It's well-made bland television. It has its moments, but it never really set my world on fire. Of course, there's a second season in production right now, but it's still some way off release (August 2024), and even if it ends up being better than the first (subjectively speaking), the first season is still a bit of a slog; and, really, I think "Andor" has shown its colours (its grey/bleak/antiseptic colours) already. I enjoyed those scenes initially, and Genevieve O'Reilly certainly plays her character well, but they do start to drag later on. A little of most things in Star Wars goes a long way. Watching "Andor", I missed the relative concision of "Obi-Wan", and watching "Obi-Wan", I missed the awesome concision of the Saga. The Empire is depicted as a mixture of Nazi influences and also a kind of paramilitary bureaucracy gone mad. Overall, though, the series does have a rather bleak character about it, and it's disappointingly bereft of that tonal and cultural richness (as you just alluded to) of the main Saga. Yeah, there's little grandeur or wonder on display; to the point where you wonder why they didn't change things up a bit more and just make an entirely new sci-fi political allegory with no obvious connection to Star Wars. HAHAHA. Under Disney, I suppose "okay" is the new "fantastic". Ouch! So much for the "adult sophistication" of this series, according to the excitable geek media... |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 30, 2023 22:11:00 GMT
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Post by jppiper on Sept 20, 2023 17:44:10 GMT
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Post by jppiper on May 4, 2024 21:17:37 GMT
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It really doesn't sit well with me. I will eventually watch Obi-Wan again and try hard to like it but...But for now, with Christmas approaching, I'm feeling a Saga re-watch. 
