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Post by Ingram on Sept 21, 2022 10:12:10 GMT
Well, that was...specific.
If one were to hypothesize a Disney+ Star Wars departure from the (over)simplistic Western formulas of The Mandalorian and The Book of Boba Fett together, along with the wistfulness and pseudo melodrama of Obi-Wan Kenobi, I'd say Andor has proceeded with a full blown experiment. I just sat through its first three episodes that proved entirely devoid of any such desolate narratives or drawn-out pronouncements. It was just pure plot stuff from start to finish, presented austerely by and large, intermittent only with an occasional flashback-story of forest kids with blow guns. So I guess this whole three-act opener was but a mere setup for Andor's introduction to the Alliance. As it stands, there's certainly some odd curiosities sprinkled throughout and definitely some dialogue stylistically too sophisticated for classic Star Wars. But the show has my attention, for the moment anyways.
If nothing else, the journeyman direction & production values are fast putting Obi-Wan Kenobi to shame.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 21, 2022 14:48:00 GMT
I liked the first episode. The show seems to be solidly executed in all technical aspects, while Obi-Wan faltered in many ways. The production values appear closer to The Mandalorian's. I liked the attention to detail and world building. It felt more like a trip to that galaxy than Obi-Wan. The people in those bubbles in the alley and the haircut of the woman in the brothel are things that stick out as appropriate Star Wars weirdness. This episode had stuff that immersed me in the world it was creating. It's a weird world we live in where a show no one initially wanted turns out better than what should have been a surefire hit in Obi-Wan.
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Post by Ingram on Sept 21, 2022 19:28:35 GMT
It's a weird world we live in where a show no one initially wanted turns out better than what should have been a surefire hit in Obi-Wan. As far as its world-building, agreed. Though, I for one was hardly ever clamoring for an Obi-Wan series, as the record shows. But at least by comparison to the latter and all the pomp 'n' circumstance it received, Andor has flown in under the radar...looking closest to that of a feature film. It also seems to be in for a much longer haul given how there actually wasn't a trace of the Empire -- starships, officers, stormtroopers etc. -- amid these first three episodes; instead, we're privy to corporate security villains (with LEGO uniforms) as something adjacent to the Empire, which is an interesting concept in and of itself.
The series has done little to embarrass itself or beg for instant parody while also not being traditionally "fun" in the process. I remain neutral with it until the storyline veers one way into more propulsive suspense thrills or the other into episode-filler lethargy and woke bullshit.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 21, 2022 19:46:14 GMT
The first trailer for Obi-Wan really did lay bare how bland that series would be, but the trailers for this really are more impressive as far as production value is concerned. I will watch the first three tonight and chime in further tomorrow...or later tonight.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 22, 2022 3:58:36 GMT
I managed to watch the first two episodes. This definitely feels like a proper pilot, taking its time which I like. I'm loving quite a few of the sets. Hammer-man and his anvil=the MVP. I love how douchey those corporate uniforms are. The Corporation definitely gives me Trade Federation and THX vibes. Anything with THX vibes I am predisposed to have positive feelings towards.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 22, 2022 12:07:38 GMT
It's a weird world we live in where a show no one initially wanted turns out better than what should have been a surefire hit in Obi-Wan. As far as its world-building, agreed. Though, I for one was hardly ever clamoring for an Obi-Wan series, as the record shows. But at least by comparison to the latter and all the pomp 'n' circumstance it received, Andor has flown in under the radar...looking closest to that of a feature film. It also seems to be in for a much longer haul given how there actually wasn't a trace of the Empire -- starships, officers, stormtroopers etc. -- amid these first three episodes; instead, we're privy to corporate security villains (with LEGO uniforms) as something adjacent to the Empire, which is an interesting concept in and of itself.
The series has done little to embarrass itself or beg for instant parody while also not being traditionally "fun" in the process. I remain neutral with it until the storyline veers one way into more propulsive suspense thrills or the other into episode-filler lethargy and woke bullshit.
I wasn't really clamoring for an Obi-Wan show either, though I couldn't help but be more interested in it than other Disney SW products since it was more prequel-adjacent. And I wanted some more Anakin, which was one of the positives of that series. Andor has indeed flown under the radar, and I suspect it will be a little bit of a sleeper hit, like Rogue One. RO came after the huge spectacle that was the media blitz around TFA, and didn't receive the same sort of fanfare, even though it was pretty well received. But in the years since its release, RO seems to have stood the test of time the best out of Disney's films. Tony Gilroy seems to be adept at telling solid tales in Lucas' world. There's a tactile texture to RO and Andor that has been missing from the other Disney products, except maybe Mandalorian. And I think it helps that Andor and the other characters of RO were new characters with no ties to the Skywalkers. It's cool that Gilroy is pushing to introduce new elements like the corporation angle you mention so as not to just rehash the Empire again. And are those CGI clone troopers I spy in the trailer? That alone got me excited.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Sept 22, 2022 15:05:37 GMT
Yes i caught the THX ladder shot. The acting style is very much *stares in Spanish* I have to say, this is the first time where I've watched a Star Wars movie/show where it really doesn't feel like Star Wars. I like it (only watched one episode so far) but it really feels like, even if it's set im the SW universe, it's a whole different reality, it's a lower level. It feels Star Wars-inspired. On the other hand, it's the first time I can remember where the sets and the characters truly feel alien to me. There's something more convincing about it than the sequels' shiny OT-copycat environments.. Maybe it was the blue noodles. But something in my head went, I know this an alien universe. Even the prequels did not give me this feeling, to be honest.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 22, 2022 18:45:02 GMT
I like the character who is leading the Corporate investigation into Cassian. He is such a pathetic, inept leader. His level of competence (incompetence) is outmatched by his ambition. Very Orson Krennic, really. However, he is like a droid and not a droid at the same time. He is disobedient, but only in order to adhere to the rules as strictly as possible. If his leaders disobey the rules, he sure as hell isn't going to.
Also, Stellan Skarsgård's character has interesting characterization. He gives off a lone-wolf/serial killer vibe, which makes you believe he could be bad news. However, he is probably a rebel who has to live in a paranoid manner in order to evade the Empire and the Corporations.
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 22, 2022 21:44:15 GMT
Andor has indeed flown under the radar, and I suspect it will be a little bit of a sleeper hit, like Rogue One. Probably. I have yet to watch any of the three available episodes (I seem to always be pressed for time when these things come out), but I'm hoping to do so later. At least I have all six episodes of "Obi-Wan" and the first season of "The Mandalorian" to compare this new series to; and, of course, "Rogue One" (comparing it to the Saga films is likely a bad idea). My basic feeling here is that "Andor" looks more expensive than "Obi-Wan" (and perhaps "The Mandalorian"), having more of a feature film quality than we've yet seen from any of these Disney streaming shows. In fact, watching the trailers, I had to double check it wasn't actually a feature, or that it hadn't been changed into one and I'd somehow missed the news. I guess that says something. Then there's the writing. It seems more fluid and self-assured based on the pre-release snippets. Something about this series suggests a focused, quasi-visionary quality lacking in "Obi-Wan". I've loosely chosen to interpret the new series as the "Babylon 5" or "Deep Space Nine" of the Star Wars family. Darkness can work with Star Wars, but it has to be done right; and I get the sense this series seems willing to go the distance; and even, perhaps, to punch a little above its weight.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 22, 2022 22:13:18 GMT
I just watched the third episode. This all looks very promising. I like the action set piece in the abandoned building. It isn't often you see something that elaborate, but also small-scale. Furthermore, a very great cathartic touch having the sunlight come in through the windshields during the cross-cut escape sequences. Now that's what you call binary sunset vibes. The spirit of Star Wars is indeed detectable in this show so far.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 23, 2022 4:46:17 GMT
Whenever I see planets that are ecologically ravaged by the Empire and Corporations, all I can think is, "We're not on Naboo anymore, Jar Jar!"
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 24, 2022 1:49:48 GMT
So I've now seen the first three episodes, and, well... I'm just not sure. First off, let me say that "Andor" is very well-made, with little that sticks out as aesthetically jarring within the po-faced context of this digressive and borderline-transgressive, er... show. Show. Seems like kind of an odd word, as innocuous and trivial as it is, to apply to a production like this. The word implies its lengthier cousin: "show business"; and that word implies something with a touch of mirth, whimsy, and largesse about it. Which "Andor" barely has. At all. Pockets of humour, sprinklings of a divine fantasy light, but this ain't your father's Star Wars, or even your mother's. No, this is honed, serious, moody, no-bullshit SW, which means it verges on not really being Star Wars at all; just something loosely indebted to all that silly stuff some guy called George Lucas sneezed out on the grey sleeve of pop culture "a long time ago" (in a galaxy far, far away....). Because, watch out, folks: This has Stellan Skarsgård in it, some fat, greasy white dude saying "shit", a self-consciously limited number of action sequences and explosions, MEANINGFUL FLASHBACKS, redbrick working class shanty towns, an Avatar-Lite "origin" story for the main character (Cassian Andor is half-Na'vi -- who knew?), and a dour tone so unrelenting that Denis Villeneuve jerks off to it. Great. But -- oddly -- that doesn't mean I hate it or find the series to be a waste of time. It's early days; and there seems enough of a kernel of intrigue here to maintain interest. So: Go "Andor"? While it may be missing the propulsive elan of Lucas Star Wars, and while its near-clinical solemnity may quickly wear out its welcome, "Andor" automatically finds strength in its characters and casting. The writing is pleasingly piquant and the people in it are at least reasonably credible. No Mary Sues in this absent glowing sausage fest, I thank you. But is that actually a plus long-term? It seems to have already seared away all the farce, found-futurism, and frippery of mainline Star Wars in a skillet. Is this wise? Is this compelling? I'm fighting myself over it. I truly don't know the answer, other than finding myself decently engaged throughout all three episodes. That said, it's really only the third that ramps up the tension and goes anywhere, and while having poetic touches, the series has yet to take flight -- if it ever will (or even intends to) -- on the wings of gorgeous imagination. Even "The Mandalorian" knows how to play. It's a hard one to judge because, impressively or not, the series hasn't really done anything wrong, that I can tell, so far (subjectively speaking, of course). As I said in paragraph one, nothing really jars or obtrudes in any mighty or atonal way. It's played straight enough that even Richard Nixon would laugh at the leaden constraint of it; the sheer audacity of this bizarre pillbox take on Star Wars Skars Wars actually existing. George Lucas had a dream. He chose to go the moons of Naboo and do the other things, not because they were easy, but because they were hard. Then his successors came along and said, "Fuck all that Jar Jar shit. We're gonna make some real Star Wars, yo." Thus effectively trapping us all in the monochromatic matrix. When I watch George Lucas Star Wars, I'm rapt and always drinking in the details -- my brain coming alive and lighting up like a pinball machine. With these Disney TV productions, I'm kinda like, distracted: "Eh, I guess I'll throw on some porn in a moment." It's the vexing linearity of Disney Star Wars that is the real mind-killer. Balloons made of lead don't float; and what the fuck kind of party pooper fucks up balloons and makes them all dense and shit on purpose? Fuck me with a plate of fishsticks, I miss George. And yet... This "Andor" shit is okay. Except for when they said shit. Only Cryo can say shit and not contradict himself. Shit like shit doesn't really belong directly in SW. Jar Jar stepping in shit? You know what that is? That's George Lucas "accidentally" wandering around, the colourful cinematic trickster, "inadvertently", in his comparative giganticness, squelching the whole stupid, shitty Disney stuff under his foot. Then wiping it off and carrying on. Into the sunbaked, parched Emerald City: a "spaceport" where almost anything or anyone might be found. Taking him (and us) where his wanderings may take him. It's hilarious and brilliant just how much the prequels tower over everything Disney has ever done or ever will do. A bit sad, too. When Jar Jar finds the essence of prequelia dead at the end of the reign of the prequels ("Episode III" -- 'cos all good things come in threes), he is drawn and despondent. But hey, you can go always go back and watch "The Beginning" again (docu or movie), where George is bright and happy-go-lucky once more. The Prequel Trilogy as the eternal return. You guys noticed some THX resonances. I saw some references to TFA. Cassian's tribe carrying long, staff-like sticks reminded me of Rey's staff. The ship with the corporate security force, heading down to the planet with the flickery interior lights, reminded me of the close-ups on Finn as a stormtrooper inside that transport as it approaches the surface of Jakku. I gotta hand it to these content creators: They are trying to link all the different bits of Star Wars media together; make it seem like one masterwork. Even there, of course, they are following George's lead -- for he already accomplished the same thing with the original six films. Yet the effort is to be appreciated. Even if the planets are drab and there are too many humans and not enough droids and aliens, at least there is a hint of grandeur in all the Easter Eggs and repeating tropes. Lastly, I think the glue holding this thing together, in many ways, is Diego Luna. Andor and the guy playing him are not like any protagonist/actor Star Wars has ever had before. But this is the world of Daniel Craig as James Bond, so a Diego Luna playing a Cassian Andor makes sense. He's able to do serious convincingly, yet what sells the seriousness are tiny but ever-present hints of sardonic disdain and wry amusement. And a certain vulnerability. He'll probably end up being the most compelling aspect of the show. The show does bear his character's name, after all. In fact, the name "Andor" comes across like a truncated version of "The M andal orian" (because, well, it is). Freaky, right? They could have called "The Book Of Boba Fett" simply "Boba", but it ends up being this Tony Gilroy-written production that dares to go that minimalist direction. It wins the prize for wearing its austerity out in front, loud and proud. And if it actually earns that austerity, holds its poker face, actually pulls this shit off -- well, that would really be something, wouldn't it?
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 24, 2022 2:15:27 GMT
I don't laugh often, but THIS got a laugh out of me.
The writer in me is jealous of this one. Damn. The best description of George and the Prequels...EVER.
In my own post, I said that the spirit of Star Wars is detectable, but the one aspect of that spirit that is missing is that Jar Jar style goofiness. Or even Luke drinking milk from a sea monster's tittie level of goofy randomness!
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 24, 2022 2:56:05 GMT
I don't laugh often, but THIS got a laugh out of me. Thanks! I was going for the laugh at the end there. Well, I was extending the Nixon metaphor and paraphrasing JFK's famous 1962 speech (made almost exactly sixty years ago): en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_choose_to_go_to_the_MoonI couldn't quite bring myself to agree with your sentiment, despite enjoying your post -- although it was certainly clever of you to suggest the idea of an editorial/metaphorical "binary sunset" with the flashback overlapping with the present-day Cassian fleeing at the end of the third episode. Another enjoyable duality is when Cassian sees his reflection in that mysterious Imperial box he keeps, first as an adult in the second episode, and then as a child in the third. There are definitely some deft touches in this thing. But is it much of a thing? Or put more directly: Is it much of a Star Wars thing? Well, here is one possible answer. I've just been speaking with Alessio and he offered this morsel (along with permission to share): Now, that is clever and good of Alessio, because Cassian's droid is very different to K-2SO in "Rogue One"; and, in fact, reasonably distinct against all prior droid companions in Star Wars (movies and shows). Alessio provides a valuable reminder that "Andor" still connects onto the prior tapestry of Star Wars in a way that honours what has come before, while still varying and expanding upon it. And I'm always a sucker for droids.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 24, 2022 3:17:21 GMT
Kinda, yeah. Reflecting on one's identity is a Star Wars thing. See Luke's vision in the cave, for example.
What I'm hoping to see going forward is Mon Mothma politically outmaneuvering Pro-Imperial senators the way Han Solo out-maneuvers a fleet of Star Destroyers. Maybe some Bothan spies for good measure. And I think getting Stellan and Forest Whitaker into a room together might produce some fireworks!
And ya know Cryo...Aren't Na'vi basically just really tall, less hairy, blue Ewoks?
Finally, the reason Diego is SO awesome is because he has such soulful eyes.
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 24, 2022 3:24:28 GMT
Kinda, yeah. Reflecting on one's identity is a Star Wars thing. See Luke's vision in the cave, for example. I can "see" that, yes. In fact, now that you've said it, I believe I was also ruminating on just that notion while watching those moments. I think we could end up quite satisfied with Mon Mothma's depiction in this series. And yes, this series has some good actors, alright. Sure. But there was quite the "Avatar" set of overtones, what with Cassian's native planet being strip-mined, the warpainted faces, a sense of holism and connection to nature, and an intruding ship being a harbinger of the encroachment of technology and the military-industrial complex, implying the tribe's end. I mean, yeah, George basically got there first -- but when didn't he? True -- and he's a very handsome lad.
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Post by Ingram on Sept 24, 2022 10:33:19 GMT
Kinda, yeah. Reflecting on one's identity is a Star Wars thing. See Luke's vision in the cave, for example. What I'm hoping to see going forward is Mon Mothma politically outmaneuvering Pro-Imperial senators the way Han Solo out-maneuvers a fleet of Star Destroyers. Maybe some Bothan spies for good measure. This. But for reasons perhaps unwitting. The one thing lacking from all prior Disney+ Star Wars series (maybe even the Disney-era as a whole) is authentic geekdom as opposed to the usual fandom. We've had boat loads of fandom: callbacks and glorified cosplay and ritualistic pantomiming of the idea of Star Wars as a myth/folklore factory, broad two-or-three note character arcs, Tatooine and more Tatooine and lamely regurgitated crime lord plots and Sith variants 2.0 and Baby fuckin' Yoda ...all the usual branding and rebranding in a fashion universally accessible to normies. We've had a goddamn lightsaber spinner and Hayden visible beneath a shattered Vader mask, for Pete's sake.
Andor however doesn't seem much interested in playing with toys. Gilroy and Co. aren't erecting another theme park but digging their own tunnels towards subterranean maintenance levels where hardhats are required. Their enterprise, from the marketing and these first three episodes together, feels primed to leave behind cursory mainstream associations for a more head-first deep dive into the intricacies of Rebel Alliance players and their sobering motivations -- Andor himself and Rael already kicking things off -- along with an Empire networked throughout all the bureaucracies of the galaxy to a degree never before bothered with from a story-telling intent. They seem primed to take this background intrigue seriously in a way reminiscent of classic table-top RPG dungeon masters and their late nights spent investing an upcoming adventure setting with complex factional strife, secret meetings, defectors, cloak & dagger side missions etc.
It feels to me like an absurd amount of effort, and production value, in geeking-out on the very designs of a thing for its own sake; a thing that up until now has served live-action Star Wars mostly as blockwork. I find that promising, at least, even if, as Cryo articulates, it drifts furthest yet away from the pulp and classical melodrama of Lucas. I guess maybe it feels like the model-shop Star Wars of Rogue One wherein Gareth Edwards took something familiar and made it lovingly his own with said love devoted more fixedly to the draft itself than anything else, perhaps being the catch. I've said my piece on that movie. If Gilroy wants to continue one step (or many) further with Cassion Andor as the central nerve to a system of airport spy novella storylines writ expensively live-action, I'm down. The whole thing could also burn itself out too quick as a transparent bore.
Status pending, one week at a time.
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Post by Pyrogenic on Sept 24, 2022 18:50:22 GMT
Andor And/Or Andorra I'm...HELPING!
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 24, 2022 19:22:26 GMT
I think the big question for Prequel fans, is...Will Mon Mothma acknowledge Padme's role in the foundation of the Rebellion in a manner that is worthy of everyone's favorite Senator/Queen!? In some ways I hope they don't because these attempts at squee-inducing fan-service references can fall flat. They sound great on paper, but the entire Obi-Wan series proves otherwise. But if they could make it satisfying...Enough said.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 24, 2022 19:37:14 GMT
After watching the third episode, I'm not overjoyed but not really disappointed either. This series is well made, and it feels like it has the proper trappings of Star Wars, but it's missing the spirit. Or the midi-chlorians. That is just something you have to get used to in the Disney era. But what I like about the series is that it's trying to be different. With the character of Andor, they can safely explore new corners of Star Wars, without getting complaints that anyone's childhood favorite character was destroyed. I guess Mandalorian had that benefit too. Then you look at Obi-Wan and Boba and how those turned out. What I would call Andor is "watchable." Three episodes in and nothing sticks out as overtly bad, except the "shit." This felt like a comfortable ride, instead of a life-threatening roller coaster ride like Boba and Obi-Wan, with constant ups and downs. What I'm really interested in are those shots in the trailer that were reminiscent of the cloning facility, with people in identical clothes. I assume they are workers for the corporation. I think that definitely consciously called back to Lucas' work in THX and AotC, which I love to see. I also thought the ships the corporation goons flew looked like modified LAATs. The corporation is probably meant to call back to the Trade Federation as well as the Kaminoan cloners.
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