Yeah. Heads up, Lulu: you open the Cryo jar, you're getting all the jam.
No kidding! That was intense 😄
Thanks for sharing,
Cryogenic , that's very enlightening!
Sorry, you only just joined, and I bombarded you!
But saying TFN isn't authoritarian, or you hadn't noticed it, was kinda like waving a red flag to a bull.
Or a very angry Kylo-Ren-Genic.
-- i.e.: Don't worry. Not your fault. It doesn't take much to spark me off.
You nailed it in your last sentence. It's not that I actually disagree with her stances on most things,
per se.
It's that some of her opinions and positions are actually authoritarian, hypocritical, intolerant, self-righteous, and extreme.
And yes, for a moderator, she is blatantly condescending and hateful. Indeed, this comment of hers in another thread sums her up:
George Lucas hates you....(about being banned)Discussion in 'Communications' started by Jedi Knight Fett, Jun 19, 2018.
That's an appalling thing to say -- especially on a huge site like TFN with thousands of mods (through the years) and hundreds-of-thousands of registered accounts.
Moreover, the former head admin of TFN was known (or let us say alleged) to have abused his power and
sexually harassed several female members. But according to the third-wave feminist anakinfan, who has a hard-line stance on even words like "Mary Sue", abuses of power like that don't happen. Even plain mistakes are impossible. That must mean nobody has ever been harassed by a moderator on TFN and that the sexual harassment I just mentioned mustn't have taken place. A
fascinating perspective for a loud and proud feminist to have, wouldn't you say?
"Pack mentality" is a good term. This is why there always needs to be an independent system of oversight and correction; or human beings, naturally inclined to form cliques, simply take sides and bully/control/harass/censor one another -- without limit (or until a situation erupts into violence and people, a la the Rebel Alliance, fight back).
You may have heard of the
bandwagon fallacy (also sometimes called
mob appeal), as well as the
tyranny of the majority, and the
narcissism of small differences. These are ever at work on TFN and in Star Wars discussions. The problem with TFN is that they have congealed into something posing as enlightened pluralism, but which is actually intolerant at its core and based on shaming/punishing blasphemers and heretics. It's what you might call the
New Comstockery (just in a liberal/left-wing form), or as Rowan Atkinson plainly worded it, the
New Intolerance:
He perfectly describes the situation on TFN. It's basically message board North Korea. Or as technology critic Jaron Lanier has termed it:
Digital Maoism.
In other words, smart, well-educated people have been speaking to this problem for a while, but only recently has it been recognised as a sickness pervading the Western world and a lot of online discourse.
Exactly! I appreciate your honesty. There's a good deal of wisdom in that confession. Sometimes, it's only possible to gain perspective on something when you step outside the system and see how controlling and degrading it actually is, when you can look at it with distance, from a new vantage point.
It's like Rey being amazed at all the "green in the galaxy" when she leaves Jakku and arrives on Takodana; or sort of in reverse, Padme being amazed that slavery exists in the galaxy when she flees Naboo and visits Tatooine.
I think you're half-admitting, between your "pack mentality" remark and the "cesspool of negative energy" you mention above, that TFN has cultic overtones and has turned into a nasty echo chamber, where the most active mods control the discussion and come down hard on dissent, essentially banning opposing views out of existence. Then again, I don't want to put words in your mouth -- that kind of shit I leave up to the mods at TFN.
Indeed. As the saying goes: The road to hell is paved with good intentions; and all that glisters is not gold. They can parrot how "diverse" and "inclusive" they're trying to make TFN until they're blue in the face, but it was a lot better (if still very flawed) before their leftist poison ruined everything. And I'm very left-leaning myself, BTW. But there's a reason for the concept of the
political horseshoe.
This is where I both strongly agree
and strongly
disagree with you. I do think the "Mary Sue" term is probably used in a sexist or dismissive way some of the time -- but, in the beautiful words of Christopher Hitchens,
"Who gets to decide?" This whole speech is brilliant:
At the end of the day, "Mary Sue" is, first and foremost, a pejorative -- but fairly innocuous -- trope identifier:
tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MarySueThere is also a male equivalent: "Gary Stu". Even if it is used less frequently.
And I don't see how ranting and raving about the lead female character, and using terms like "hormonal idiot" to do it, is any less insulting (to people who like the character) than calling her a Mary Sue (and again: from the
same person that demanded the latter term be a punishable offence if used). But guess what?
Taking offence isn't an argument. In the words of Stephen Fry:
"You're offended? So fucking what!"To quote Hitch from the above (paraphrasing John Milton's
Areopagitica, Thomas Paine's introduction to
The Age Of Reason, and John Stuart Mill's
On Liberty):
Hitchens, extremely versed in George Orwell (he even wrote a book on him:
Why Orwell Matters), and an American citizen who once visited North Korea and other hellhole countries, could speak eloquently on the important of free speech -- and what happens when moral guardians are given the authority to decide what constitutes "acceptable" or "constructive" speech (and what should be forbidden).
Rush Limbaugh may have popularised the term, but he didn't coin it. And I don't like
guilt by association fallacies, thank you very much. You say anakinfan's authoritarian behaviour has "nothing to do with her being a feminist", but I don't think you can completely separate ideology (or belief) from behaviour -- just as I don't think you can completely separate "the art from the artist". Perhaps she is temperamentally inclined to certain ideological positions (as we all probably are), but there is evidently something appealing in feminism, or in calling oneself a feminist, that gels with her personality. Basically, for someone who claims to be of no particular religious faith, feminism is obviously her secular religion. Moreover, the Dark Side of feminism is clearly misandry -- and I think anakinfan despises men much more than she lets on.
More specifically:
I use the term "feminazi" because I think it fits her to a tee. If someone is going to preach, as she does, that she has all the right values in advance, and label opponents as wrong and evil (which she has done repeatedly), and even brag about "punching Nazis in four realms" (that used to be her personal mod label for a while), and even uses an avatar of Dark Side-aligned Force users from The Clone Wars (literal witches), I don't think I'm far from the mark in my use of the term, to be honest.
Oh, and anecdotally speaking, I'm friends with another long-term prequel fan (female), who used to call herself a feminist and used to be an admirer of anakinfan. But when she saw how awful anakinfan started to behave, she distanced herself from both anakinfan
and feminism. And she's a very liberal person, too. So it's not just me seeing this or feeling this inherent revulsion.
I have mixed feelings on feminism, but don't have a big argument with it on paper -- it's a very broad church, after all. I'd actually like to try and look much more into intersectional literature. However, people like anakinfan are not a good advert for the movement, in my opinion. They harm the image of feminism as much as they (might) help it.
It's fine. I like a bit of open dialogue. The problems begin to mount up when people clam up and start hiding behind phrases, rules, injunctions, etc. -- as the mods do on TFN. They're far too cowardly to embrace a genuine discourse.
It amuses me that anakinfan is such an admirer of Han Solo (in the Original Trilogy), given how much of a classic male braggadocio Han actually is (vs. the green and overeager Luke: the "hero") -- and it's Han that gets the girl. Indeed, in the Sequel Trilogy, Kylo is obviously modelled on a mixture of Han and Anakin, but anakinfan hates his guts. Worse than that: Anyone, in her eyes, that argues
for Kylo and Rey showing sexual/romantic attraction toward each other, and
against Rey and Finn manifesting the same, on any level whatsoever, is a misogynistic, racist, backwards piece of filth, just asking to be banned.
Do you not see how regressive and toxic that is? She literally glories in her own opinions, constantly bumps fists with the other major anti-Reylo moderator, godisawesome, and the two go around (with anakinfan typically being the more aggressive: Good Cop, Bad Cop) harassing, belittling, berating, distorting, and threatening anyone with a different opinion. An opinion -- let's just remind ourselves -- on
fictional fucking characters. In a space opera! It's very messed up. And the myriad of spineless goons on TFN have allowed it to happen. Those two parasite on the entire TFN message board system and rule over various discussions like petty tyrant-kings.
I'm sorry, but I've never encountered anything as psychotically one-sided and crazed in its condemnation of people with a different opinion, on the same basic material, as TFN. I know what I'm talking about. I've posted to a bunch of message board communities. I won't say some don't echo TFN. One time, at another board, when I spoke up for Black Lives Matter, the entire thread was scrubbed clean, and then I was insinuated to be racist and publicly goaded into deleting my account (an account I have had for many years). Humans constantly behave like total shitheads to one another.
All I'm saying is, on TFN, the excuse to erase people comes down to simply differing in one's tastes/preferences over a bunch of fantasy movies. It's insanity. Even some LFL employees, like Pablo Hidalgo, recognise that TFN is absolutely awful. Because it has been hijacked by bigots who have made it their religious mission in life to spit venom at some aspects of Star Wars and unperson anyone who disagrees. Case in point (if you think I'm only going after anakinfan here):
Star Wars is Struggling to Win Over the Next Generation of KidsDiscussion in 'Star Wars: New Films - No Spoilers Allowed' started by SG-17, Aug 8, 2019.
The New Definitely Not Improved Even More Horrible Than The Last Two Rumors ThreadDiscussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by Darth Chiznuk , Dec 12, 2017.
What's your opinion on Sheev Palpatine coming back as the main villain of the Sequel Trilogy?Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by DarthVist, Sep 8, 2020.
What do you think of TLJ 4 years later?Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by RedeemBenSolo, Jun 22, 2021.
Do you think more people will warm up to the ST 15-20 years from now?Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by CrAsHcHaOs, Jun 15, 2021.
They're telling you plain that they don't believe that some opinions -- i.e., positive opinions on a fan forum designed for praise/celebration -- should be tolerated. They actively go around looking to chide, to denigrate, to shame, and to censor voices of dissent. Anyone that doesn't share
their opinion is an enemy.
This, in my opinion, is totally pathetic. It's pretty obvious why LFL creatives wouldn't want to post at TFN.
And remember: They don't tolerate critical opinions,
either.
It all comes down to whatever they have decided are the "correct" opinions to hold. If you don't share those opinions, you're in trouble.
This is tolerance?
This is diversity?
This is equality?
Of course, it isn't. It's the ultimate safe space where anyone that disagrees is conveniently labelled as some kind of moral degenerate and banished. Which is exactly what people talk about when they talk about the Regressive Left. And again, I'm a left-leaning person. It's their way or the highway. There is to be no discussion, because counter arguments can simply be "dismissed" and that's all there is to it.
Almost anything can be justified on the grounds of providing "peace, freedom, justice, and security" -- sound familiar? It's exactly what our own "George" was trying to warn us about. Fascism and totalitarianism do not sweep in all at once. They creep up from behind with promises of a more prosperous and just society, if we're only prepared to accept a few small suspensions of hard-won liberty to keep chaos and ruination at bay.
When you turn things into political weapons, they become brutalised in the process. Deformed. Ugly. And a false consensus is a worthless consensus. Something that fanatical gatekeepers never seem to understand. You don't build consensus down the barrel of a gun; or through erecting a bunch of ad hoc rules limiting the speech of opponents. That only leads to a fake and broken reality. The mods have succeeded to that extent -- and only that extent. And as long as people put up with it or refuse to see it, it will only continue.
-- i.e.: Don't worry. Not your fault. It doesn't take much to spark me off. 