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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 30, 2022 14:02:10 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 19, 2022 13:54:57 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 19, 2022 20:17:36 GMT
People tend to scapegoat Mace Windu as exemplifying all the faults of the Jedi Order, but the truth is that Yoda was just as much of an asshole towards Anakin. I'm thinking in particular of the scene at the end of Episode I, and also the one where Anakin comes to his meditation quarters in III.
Star Wars fans themselves have a strange relationship with Yoda. On the one hand, they adore the cutesy old sage of the OT, on the other hand, they're highly critical of the Jedi Order of the PT, and yet refuse to open their eyes to Yoda's culpability in it. He lead it, for crying out loud, there is nobody more at fault. I'm sick of this lofty, undefined, vague talk of The Jedi, I think it's time to start naming names. Why should Yoda be free of deconstruction, if even saintly Luke has to be subjected to it, Yoda failed even more dramatically than Obi-Wan did. He is the Republic's equivalent of the Chief of the General Staff, and the enemy ran circles around him. There is an element of Pong Krill to him, though it's more subtle.
As a Mace Windu fan, Darkslayer , I'd be interested in your thoughts. I'm thinking of doing a new thread titled either Mace Windu: convenient scapegoat or Yoda: asshole or not.
I'm not a fan of the Yoda force ghosts in the ST. There's a shamelessness about him, a lack of personal responsibility. He talks in all all these abstract notions about the Jedi and so on, as if he was only a minor player on the sides during the final years of the Republic. People are saying "Oh, a post-ROTJ Anakin Force Ghost appearance would be awkward", and I mean, have they ever studied what Yoda let happen in the PT? I'm not sure I'd be taking lectures from him either. Yoda might be wise, but he reminds me of one of those buffoons in Weimar Germany's politics who didn't see Hitler as a danger.
Institutions and those who govern them might be another neat topic. Whilst I've always been a great admirer of the Jedi Order as an institution, it is the leadership in the later days of the Republic that I have problems with. If Lucas didn't make them an official entity in the prequel trilogy, what else would they be but a group of vigilante outlaws? This is my reading into Rian Johnson's gripes about the PT (we don't he didn't like them when they released), and I don't think it's surprising then how he wrote his characters in TLJ. He does not understand that it was only by surrendering themselves to the wishes of the democratically-elected Galactic Republic, and its constitution, sometime around its founding, that the Jedi gained legitimacy, much like an army does to a modern state in our world (exceptions for Myanmar etc). If you loose a war, you don't abolish your army, you make it better.
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Post by jppiper on Jun 19, 2022 20:47:16 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 19, 2022 21:00:19 GMT
No, Joe, my point is that fans don't factor in Yoda's actions in the PT when they review and assess the character. They go entirely on his depiction in the OT, which is all lovely and sagely. Keep an eye out for it next time, you'll notice it.
To me, the prequels demonstrate that even the mighty Yoda has faults, he's far from impeccable. He could have done much better with Anakin, he could have done a lot more to detect Sidious.
The only Jedi you can say is close to perfection is Qui-Gon Jinn. If he declined to join the Jedi Council, who do you think his issues are with? Plo-Koon?
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jul 7, 2022 23:10:52 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jul 9, 2022 15:11:55 GMT
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Post by Pyrogenic on Jul 12, 2022 18:28:49 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jul 13, 2022 22:56:59 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 13, 2022 23:41:26 GMT
We seem to be getting a bit sexual on the forum these past few days and I like it!
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Post by Pyrogenic on Jul 14, 2022 1:26:34 GMT
We seem to be getting a bit sexual on the forum these past few days and I like it! Every generation of Star Wars fans thinks they invented getting a bit sexual on the forum. Well, I’m here to remind everyone that they’re wrong and that it’s always been extremely sexual. And my presence makes it sexual.
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Post by Somny on Jul 14, 2022 11:30:21 GMT
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Post by Somny on Jul 14, 2022 11:31:51 GMT
By the way, Elvis is fucking amazing, Cryogenic ! And there's definitely a discussion to be had about its aesthetic proximity to the PT.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jul 14, 2022 13:16:52 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 14, 2022 15:24:55 GMT
By the way, Elvis is fucking amazing, Cryogenic ! And there's definitely a discussion to be had about its aesthetic proximity to the PT. Yes, I recognised the still image you used almost instantly! I've long maintained that there are strong links between Elvis and Star Wars. Same rhythm in the names for a start. Same with Elvis and Lucas (including the same number of letters in both sets of names: five). Star Wars was "born" in 1977, Elvis died in 1977. Star Wars acknowledges its lifespan as 42 years in TROS, which is the same age Elvis was when he died. Therefore, he's not dead! The Force of Others. Both owe a debt to "2001". Elvis used the famous "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" (thereby also linking him to Nietzsche) as his opening theme for the bulk of his live stage shows when he returned to live performing in 1969 (the theme would first be used to open his show a year or two later), while Lucas called the Kubrick film "the ultimate science-fiction movie" and considered Star Wars to be something of a homage, yet technically inferior. Similarly, Elvis said in one interview in the 1950s that he didn't think he was much of a singer, not next to "coloured folks", some of whom were very much his singing idols (like Roy Hamilton). Elvis' Machiavellian manager and the strange, codependent bond Elvis formed with him echoes Anakin aligning himself with Darth Sidious. Colonel Parker/Chancellor Palpatine. And neither is their real name. Parker, of course, was a Dutch immigrant, whose birth name was Andreas Cornelis (Dries) van Kuijk. Alanna Nash wrote a very dramatic biography of Parker some years ago, in which she alleges that Parker/Van Kuijk may have murdered a young woman in his home town of Breda in the Netherlands and then fled the country for the United States. She also cites an army report where Parker/Van Kuijk was discharged on the grounds of suffering psychosis. Parker had quite the hold on Elvis, which strengthened after his mother died, leaving him rudderless. Elvis was about to fight the Clone Wars -- sorry, the Cold War -- and was in basic training, preparing to fly to Germany for army maneuvers, when his mother suddenly became sick and died in hospital. Elvis, like Anakin, was never the same afterward. When he got out of the army, Elvis made a film called "Flaming Star" with Don Siegel, which has some striking similarities with John Ford's classic film "The Searchers", a known influence on Star Wars; and many resonances to both films can be made found in the Tatooine sequence of AOTC. Remember what I just said about the hold Parker had on Elvis? In the 1960s, Elvis went on something of a spiritual bender, which Parker derisively called a "religious kick". Elvis was an avid reader and amassed many books on spiritualism. In a crisis period in his career, Elvis tripped and bashed his head on a bathtub at home. Parker saw his chance to stage an intervention and convinced Elvis to make some changes (changes that would benefit Parker more than his client), including persuading him to burn all his books. Parker insinuated many of them had led him astray and he needed to get rid of them, so Elvis did (his young wife, Priscilla, was secretly relieved by this decision, too). Anakin became physically burned, Elvis immolated his book collection. Later, Anakin partially regenerates through bacta, while Elvis would reacquire many of his books and resume where he left off. The twin suns and the Skywalker twins. Elvis had a stillborn twin brother, the memory of whom may or may not have haunted him throughout his life. Elvis' life may also be summed up as "Sun to Sundial": a reference to his career starting at Sun Records in 1954 and finishing with his final concerts performances in 1977 in which he repeatedly donned a so-called "Sundial" suit (actually an Aztec calendar design). Star Wars itself is rooted in Meso-American civilisation and may even have gotten its name from Mayan city warfare (one of these ancient warring cities was chosen for exterior shots of the Rebel base in the original film). There's a rock 'n' roll vibe to the original film that comprises an oblique "Thank You" to Elvis and his generation of original rockabilly rebels. Some of the characters in the film even have sideburns. Elvis was probably on Lucas' personal jukebox when he made his early films that eventually turned George himself into an American filmmaking icon. "American Graffiti" notably includes one of Elvis' singles, but it is instead sung by the American singer Terry Stafford. Why? Unfortunately, Elvis' recording was not released as a single until after Stafford's version, despite the fact that Elvis recorded his version first (March 1962 for Elvis vs. May 1962 in the case of Stafford). Even Stafford's version wasn't released until 1964. The Presley management then scrambled to cash in after the Stafford single became a Top 10 hit. It's a sorry sign that Elvis allowed himself to become diminished through questionable management after his white-hot climb to fame in the 1950s. Yet given that both versions were recorded in 1962, it's very apt that one of them was chosen for "American Graffiti", whose tagline is: "Where were you in '62?" Indeed, it's almost like the film is posing that question to Elvis, who had started to disappear from the hearts and minds of many teenage fans at that time, having begun to pursue an extended career in Hollywood instead, mostly making lightweight musicals after his management convinced him that dramatic vehicles weren't feasible because musical travelogues were more lucrative. When "American Graffiti" went on nationwide release in the United States, Elvis was busy performing yet more lounge shows in Las Vegas that very day. (I'm not sure if Elvis even saw AG, but I could try and find out). Then there's Lisa Marie. Elvis' only daughter and child. Not to be confused with his famous jet plane, which he gave the same name to. Lisa Marie has conceded that her father's passing really messed her up and that she had a bit of a Darth Vader addiction for a while. She feels she was somehow trying to locate her father and preserve his memory, or come to grips with the dark shadow he left on her life, through this uncanny proxy archetype Lucas created. Vader, like the 1970s Elvis that would be pressed most strongly into Lisa Marie's memory, is tall and imposing, wears a cape, is tooled up (Vader has his lightsaber, 1970s Elvis carried many guns), has a memorable deep baritone voice, and just seems to exude an "Otherness" that renders him instantly compelling. Vader also represents the ambulatory aspects of death and its powerful grip on the human psyche. Vader, after all, is both an artificial man and a fictional being. He doesn't really exist any more than Elvis or Lisa Marie's memories of her father exist or point to something real. Yet we know that Vader was once Anakin, just as Elvis once existed and drew breath. Likewise, in the plotline of the prequels, Anakin pledges himself to Darth Sidious because he wants the power to cheat death. Elvis, too, was fascinated by death and loss; with the same basic motivator as Anakin: the loss of their mother. Elvis even took to visiting morgues and looking at dead bodies. Along with his spiritual quest, he seemed to be chasing some affirmation that physical death wasn't the end, but merely a gateway to a new beginning. His use of the "2001" overture becomes more poignant in light of this obsession. All this and I almost forgot to mention that Elvis worked with Steve Binder and Dwight Hemion on his first and last television specials: with Binder as the director on the famous "Comeback Special" in 1968, and with Hemion as the director on the more notorious "Elvis In Concert" in 1977. What's special about these names? Steve Binder and Dwight Hemion were also the director and executive producer respectively on the even more notorious and similarly contraband "Star Wars Holiday Special" from 1978. One of the more striking aspects of the Holiday Special is how musical it is. There's a very strange dream interlude/soft porn sequence that seems to have Binder's fingerprints all over it. In the broadcast version of the Comeback Special in 1968, the bordello sequence in which Elvis visits a brothel mid-way through a long musical/roaming sequence was removed. The dream theme doesn't end there. The last song of the special is called "If I Can Dream" and Elvis' impassioned performance remains transfixing (and relevant) more than fifty years later. In this fiery performance, full of sincerity and ache, Elvis achieves a rare moment of self-transcendence and obliterates all doubt that he was just some 1950s marketing fluke or flash-in-the-pan phenomenon. Just as Star Wars soared to new heights in the prequels, so did Elvis go beyond himself when he rediscovered the unquenchable thirst to maximally express himself -- and to reach people -- that he had denied and kept hidden inside. For a while, he had recovered a vital part of himself, and in so doing, transfigured the space for human flourishing and scorched the universe with his one-of-a-kind talent once more. Damn, I love Elvis. And Star Wars.
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Post by Somny on Jul 15, 2022 14:42:25 GMT
Damn it, Cryogenic ! I'll never be able to match your staggering volubility on pop culture topics - or any topic, quite frankly. Having seen the biopic, I have such a vivid picture in my mind of everything you've laid out here. These connections are uncanny in the most astounding way! I now better understand the fascination about the music, the story and the man where I didn't before thanks to Baz Luhrmann's remarkable film and certainly to your insight here. A most sincere thank you for sharing!
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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 15, 2022 23:55:48 GMT
Damn it, Cryogenic ! I'll never be able to match your staggering volubility on pop culture topics - or any topic, quite frankly. Thanks, Somny. I actually cut a few corners there, and I'm quite the Elvis fan, so I should really know this stuff. It's nothing exceptional, the knowledge I have. There are certainly people who know more about Elvis than I do and who can recite many events in his life chapter and verse. Some are also exceptionally knowledgeable about wider pop culture and the times in which Elvis lived. I'm definitely not one of those people, as much as I sometimes wish I were. That's awesome! I think all the connections I outlined are pretty basic, but maybe they do verge on being uncanny, as well. I mean, I'm biased to think there's something to them, and that this universe if full of layers and dimensions we may never understand; but maybe we can get some glimpse of them if we are persistent and have enough faith, reason, conviction, etc. Elvis himself clearly felt the same way. If the biopic has helped make Elvis more real and compelling to you, well now, that's a pretty amazing thing. It seems to have generated a great deal of positive buzz about Elvis and his life and times. It's all about the music and so much more...
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Sept 8, 2022 12:46:01 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 8, 2022 23:53:10 GMT
Your meme is at least 30 years out of date.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Oct 7, 2022 20:55:20 GMT
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