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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 1, 2020 18:03:46 GMT
In this thread we'll be discussing SW chronicler extraordinaire, J.W Rinzler, and his time at Lucasfilm. For those of you not aware, Rinzler was an executive in the publishing department, who has written more thoroughly about the making of Lucas' films than anyone else. He even spend a spell in the writers room of season 4 of The Clone Wars.
We can divide his time at the ranch into four eras:
1: Production of AOTC: Sep 11, 2001 (an "emotional cocktail") - May 2002 2: Production of ROTS: May 2002 - May 2005 3: Post-ROTS: May 2005 - late 2012 4: Transition to Disney: late 2012 - Jan 1, 2016 (First year and half of this felt "business as usual", rapid change in 2014)
As the final era is one with enormous fan speculation over his relationship to Disney and/or Kathleen Kennedy, why he departed, shut down his blog, the limits of this discussion will kept to the sale of Lucasfilm in late 2012. That way we can give due weight to his time as an employee of George Lucas, during what we prequelists might affectionately call The Golden Era. A new thread will be set up to deal with his time under Disney.
His works include:
PT The Making of Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith The Art of Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith Star Wars Storyboards: Prequel Trilogy
OT The Making of Star Wars The Making of The Empire Strikes Back The Making of Return of the Jedi
Star Wars Storyboards: The Original Trilogy
Star Wars Costumes: The Original Trilogy (with Brandon Alinger)
OT & PT
Star Wars: The Blueprints The Sounds of Star Wars
Creating the Worlds of Star Wars: 365 Days (with John Knoll) Discussion and quotations from any of the above is encouraged, but pirating is strictly prohibited. How many of these coffee table fillers do you own, and what was your favourite? Discussion from any of his blog writings is also allowed, as long as it pertains to the Lucas era.
In the following recent video posted by Somny , Rinzler is interviewed by proper prequelists, who nailed several of the questions I had in my own head. Some of these topics are hotly debated on our forum, which makes one wonder... Here's an earlier one (conducted by Rick Worley, author of the exhaustive 2.5 hour prequel analysis video that was posted in an earlier thread):
Interesting recent podcast interview:
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Post by Somny on Aug 1, 2020 22:37:57 GMT
Proper prequelists, indeed! It's been my favorite of the interviews so far. A far more targeted one.
Of the books listed, I've only fully read 'The Making of Star Wars'. But what a trove! The tracing of the script's incremental development and all the details about those earlier script drafts are really interesting. I also found Lucas' early idea of either an all-Asian or an all-Black cast particularly fascinating.
By the way, has anyone here had access to the supplemental audio/visual material included with the digital versions of 'The Making of...' books? I don't have an Apple or Kindle device so I've been really curious about anything special I might be missing.
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Post by Somny on Aug 4, 2020 23:41:56 GMT
ArchdukeOfNaboo said (in another thread): Rinzlering! Ha! I caught that too! Ice cold!
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 17, 2020 6:26:46 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Nov 18, 2020 3:04:31 GMT
4: Transition to Disney
I'm not sure if it was Cryo or someone else I mentioned this to, but I think it's worth rehashing: Jonathan has been under a strict NDA about his time at Lucasfilm under Disney ever since departing on NYD in 2016. Probe as we might to glean some secret nugget of information, he's been as tough as nails to break through; and who can blame him? It's not known when this NDA will expire, but I like to think, and I hope, that's he recorded his full thoughts on the matter. Reading between the lines in what he has loosely said about the new films, and it's clear that he didn't enjoy working at LF post-takeover.
With the news of his health status now, it's even more important than ever that he put pen to paper. But I trust that he already has. Jonathan is a smart guy: he documented the making of the films, and he knows others want to do likewise with the takeover.
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 18, 2020 3:53:45 GMT
4: Transition to Disney
I'm not sure if it was Cryo or someone else I mentioned this to, but I think it's worth rehashing: Jonathan has been under a strict NDA about his time at Lucasfilm under Disney ever since departing on NYD in 2016. Probe as we might to glean some secret nugget of information, he's been as tough as nails to break through; and who can blame him? It's not known when this NDA will expire, but I like to think, and I hope, that's he recorded his full thoughts on the matter. Reading between the lines in what he has loosely said about the new films, and it's clear that he didn't enjoy working at LF post-takeover.
With the news of his health status now, it's even more important than ever that he put pen to paper. But I trust that he already has. Jonathan is a smart guy: he documented the making of the films, and he knows others want to do likewise with the takeover.
For what it's worth: When I asked him about the Luke Skywalker "Colonel Kurtz" controversy (as outlined in Mike's Lucas Sequel Treatments thread), asking if he could clarify when Lucas' treatments were no longer in play and when exactly Lucas found out, he told me he has "exact dates" for a lot of those things. So we can be relatively assured he has extensive notes on the whole situation. He probably has a few unpublished blog entries, from his now-deleted blog series ( entry 1, entries 2 to 11 -- NOTE: Missing Blog #12). The original website archive link is alternatively available HERE (some comments preserved underneath). His voice will never be silenced. I really hope his "Making Of" book for TFA comes out (or leaks out) one day. EDIT: MADE A MISTAKE HERE!!! Missed a blog entry!Rinzler put out twelve blog entries in total. This page has all twelve blog entries Rinzler uploaded before shutting his blog down: Mobile version
Desktop versionUnfortunately, neither version presents all the blog entries on a single page. In both cases, you will have to click back to bring all the entries up (blue right-arrow icon for the mobile version, click "Older Posts" on the desktop version). The desktop version is easier, however, because you can also navigate to any blog entry you like by using the "Blog Archive" bar on the right-hand side. Please also note that the blog entries were originally uploaded by Rinzler in 2017. The old dates are captured in that archive, but the newer dates at the very top (when that person posted them to their own blog) may lead to confusion.
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Post by Somny on Nov 19, 2020 2:48:47 GMT
He probably has a few unpublished blog entries, from his now-deleted blog series ( entry 1, entries 2 to 11). The original website archive link is alternatively available HERE (some comments preserved underneath). Those blog entries are a treasure! Rinzler hits it on the nose when he describes the Lucasfilm properties as a creative project unto themselves. They clearly are. Utterly fascinating! Thanks so much for the links, Cryo!
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Post by thephantomcalamari on Nov 19, 2020 2:59:01 GMT
4: Transition to Disney
I'm not sure if it was Cryo or someone else I mentioned this to, but I think it's worth rehashing: Jonathan has been under a strict NDA about his time at Lucasfilm under Disney ever since departing on NYD in 2016. Probe as we might to glean some secret nugget of information, he's been as tough as nails to break through; and who can blame him? It's not known when this NDA will expire, but I like to think, and I hope, that's he recorded his full thoughts on the matter. Reading between the lines in what he has loosely said about the new films, and it's clear that he didn't enjoy working at LF post-takeover.
With the news of his health status now, it's even more important than ever that he put pen to paper. But I trust that he already has. Jonathan is a smart guy: he documented the making of the films, and he knows others want to do likewise with the takeover.
For what it's worth: When I asked him about the Luke Skywalker "Colonel Kurtz" controversy (as outlined in Mike's Lucas Sequel Treatments thread), asking if he could clarify when Lucas' treatments were no longer in play and when exactly Lucas found out, he told me he has "exact dates" for a lot of those things. So we can be relatively assured he has extensive notes on the whole situation. He probably has a few unpublished blog entries, from his now-deleted blog series ( entry 1, entries 2 to 11). The original website archive link is alternatively available HERE (some comments preserved underneath). His voice will never be silenced. I really hope his "Making Of" book for TFA comes out (or leaks out) one day. I'd like for it to come out too, but Rinzler has said multiple times that it doesn't contain the kind of information about Lucas's ST that most of us would be interested in. He thinks it was probably cancelled because Disney didn't like having any of the nitty-gritty aspects of filmmaking exposed, period--even stuff that most of us would see as harmless. They just didn't see any upside to it.
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 19, 2020 6:13:52 GMT
He probably has a few unpublished blog entries, from his now-deleted blog series ( entry 1, entries 2 to 11). The original website archive link is alternatively available HERE (some comments preserved underneath). Those blog entries are a treasure! Rinzler hits it on the nose when he describes the Lucasfilm properties as a creative project unto themselves. They clearly are. Utterly fascinating! Thanks so much for the links, Cryo! You're welcome, Somny! Please note I made a mistake and excluded a blog entry (Blog #12). I had this niggle that it was actually twelve entries -- it was really biting at me! Unfortunately, my memory remained fuzzy. I did some digging via Google and was led to a false conclusion. I should have trusted my archives! My post has now been edited to reflect this mistake. All twelve should now be available via an alternate source. And yes -- they make for some great reading! There are a couple of bits I really love from blog entries #9 and #10: (I'm reprising myself here from some comments I made on Naboo News in 2018) In entry #9, Rinzler captured a remarkably unguarded and incisive comment from George Lucas about his first movie, THX: “This is the movie most like me.”In entry #10, Rinzler had his head shaved and did a day’s shooting as an extra for various inserts designed to go into the tweaked version of THX (released on DVD in 2004). As Rinzler puts it: “It was a great experience to become a few pixels in that underrated movie.”
I really hope his "Making Of" book for TFA comes out (or leaks out) one day. I'd like for it to come out too, but Rinzler has said multiple times that it doesn't contain the kind of information about Lucas's ST that most of us would be interested in. He thinks it was probably cancelled because Disney didn't like having any of the nitty-gritty aspects of filmmaking exposed, period--even stuff that most of us would see as harmless. They just didn't see any upside to it. Yes, I'm aware of that: Rinzler has claimed there is nothing especially salacious in it. And maybe there isn't. But it would still be good to get some of the nuts-and-bolts of the whole experience. That's what a good "making of" book is for. Compare it to the puff-piece documentary they put out, "The Secrets Of The Force Awakens: A Cinematic Journey", which in my opinion -- aside from a few bright spots -- is absolutely terrible: (Sorry to all involved: it's just extremely glossy and barely lives up to its promising (if bloated) title): There's just w ay too much hidden from view (in my opinion, anyway). If they have nothing to fear, why suppress the book? Book suppression is not cool (nor is handing the lead Lucasfilm books editor his pink slip straight after he finished it). All the previous Star Wars movies had "making of" books, and Rinzler proved his phenomenal documentarian skills with the OT coffee table books and his first project: "The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith". Back when Lucas ran the show, there was a lot more honesty and a distinct lack of pretence. Just compare "The Beginning" to that Disney trash above: Rinzler himself predicted that more would eventually come out regarding Lucas' treatments (which are touched upon in the book). And yes, as of a few days ago, we now have more information about those treatments. Perhaps Disney would finally like to release the book? The new trilogy is a done thing. In order for me to respect a creative endeavour, especially something as complex as a movie, I like to know something about the work that went into it: the good, the bad, the whatever.
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Post by Somny on Sept 14, 2021 23:19:31 GMT
Anyone else reading Howard Kazanjian: A Producer's Life (Kazanjian produced TESB, ROTLA and ROTJ among many other films and also worked with Hitchcock and Peckinpah ) from Rinzler? His final book. My copy was delivered today from Amazon. I'm already 1/10th through it and it's riveting! I'll report back with my thoughts once I've finished it.
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Post by Somny on Sept 27, 2021 22:50:37 GMT
Anyone else reading Howard Kazanjian: A Producer's Life (Kazanjian produced TESB, ROTLA and ROTJ among many other films and also worked with Hitchcock and Peckinpah ) from Rinzler? His final book. My copy was delivered today from Amazon. I'm already 1/10th through it and it's riveting! I'll report back with my thoughts once I've finished it. My mini-review: "This book, my memoirs, was written not for the ego of it, but as a statement to young potential filmmakers and others about the challenges of our industry, both good and bad." -Howard Kazanjian From learning the assistant director ropes as a young DGA trainee in a dying, traditional studio system to commanding production of some of the biggest blockbusters of New Hollywood, Kazanjian's story is an unblinkered look at the motion picture industry and a cool education about its variety and volatility. The late author J.W. Rinzler (who died of cancer earlier this summer before the book's release) combines a deftly flowing narrative with fascinating anecdotes (about Sam Peckinpah, Alfred Hitchcock, Billy Wilder, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg among others) from many of the key players involved. All in all, a captivating account of the career of a remarkable if unsung producing talent! Highly recommended to my fellow cinema enthusiasts!
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Post by Somny on Sept 28, 2021 9:39:47 GMT
If there's any curiosity about the content of the book, I'd be more than happy to field questions about it.
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Post by Somny on Nov 3, 2021 1:09:02 GMT
In the Kazanjian book, Randal Kleiser, Lucas' roommate at USC, is interviewed and describes Lucas' personal artwork as reminiscent of art by Margaret Keane. In other words, Lucas himself indeed had some bearings as a visual artist early on. I had always wondered about this point given Lucas' oft-cited interest in a career as an illustrator when he was younger.
A particularly memorable nugget from the book.
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 3, 2021 1:26:39 GMT
In the Kazanjian book, Randal Kleiser, Lucas' roommate at USC, is interviewed and describes Lucas' personal artwork as reminiscent of art by Margaret Keane. In other words, Lucas himself indeed had some bearings as a visual artist early on. I had always wondered about this point given Lucas' oft-cited interest in a career as an illustrator when he was younger. A particularly juicy nugget from the book. Very interesting. On a related note, you reminded me here that the book How Star Wars Conquered The Universe, by Chris Taylor, includes a small inlay of black and white photographs. These are all nice enough, but one of them is extra significant: It's a small reproduction of a photograph a young George Lucas took himself. I can't find the image online, and I can't reproduce it right now (and I'm not sure I should), but here is how the caption reads: I guess, if one is sufficiently keen to see the image, and possibly more that Lucas took, one could always try contacting Don Glut himself. Incidentally, Don Glut and George Lucas, perhaps unsurprisingly, are also peers in age: both men were born in 1944 and both are now 77 years of age. While Jonathan Rinzler has now sadly left us.
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Post by Somny on Nov 4, 2021 21:05:45 GMT
Very interesting. On a related note, you reminded me here that the book How Star Wars Conquered The Universe, by Chris Taylor, includes a small inlay of black and white photographs. These are all nice enough, but one of them is extra significant: It's a small reproduction of a photograph a young George Lucas took himself. I can't find the image online, and I can't reproduce it right now (and I'm not sure I should), but here is how the caption reads: Fascinating stuff! How's How Star Wars Conquered the Universe, by the way? You've cited the book once before and it seems like an interesting read. Worth picking up?
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Post by Cryogenic on Nov 4, 2021 22:03:17 GMT
Very interesting. On a related note, you reminded me here that the book How Star Wars Conquered The Universe, by Chris Taylor, includes a small inlay of black and white photographs. These are all nice enough, but one of them is extra significant: It's a small reproduction of a photograph a young George Lucas took himself. I can't find the image online, and I can't reproduce it right now (and I'm not sure I should), but here is how the caption reads: Fascinating stuff! How's How Star Wars Conquered the Universe, by the way? You've cited the book once before and it seems like an interesting read. Worth picking up? It's a crisp and lively read. Unfortunately, the author isn't a great fan of the prequels and doesn't do much to hide it in the last part of the book. The text has a nice conversational style, though, and many people would probably agree with most of what the author says. It's not what you would call an academic treatise, but it does feel pretty voluminous. It has a much lighter tone than Michael Kaminski's The Secret History Of Star Wars and sweeps in more of the external cultural response to the phenomenon of the films. It's probably a better "potted history" of Star Wars than Kaminski's book and less heavy/overpowering to read. There's a deft touch in the writing, and the way the author breezily weaves in numerous little insights and factual details feels very natural. Nothing deep-dish here, but the author still offers a vivid impression of things with his compendious approach. Ultimately, the book is accessible and fun. It's by no means the final word on Star Wars -- what is? -- but I'm pleased to have a copy. Does any of that explain anything? Basically, the author talks about the development of the Star Wars Saga in chronological order, pulling in a lot of anecdotes and/or "wider world" response to the movies and Star Wars as a whole. There is an interesting chapter, for example, called "Spoof Wars", in which the author talks about Star Wars as a kind of comedy metatext, suggesting that it started life as "more of a light, wispy thing", quoting Mark Hamill who thought the movies (Original Trilogy) "were comedies", and then going on to explore a few occasions in which the films have been spoofed or riffed on and become accepted into the wider sociocultural fabric as a thing ripe with comic or spoofy potential. If nothing else, the book has its moments, here and there, of getting you to look at Star Wars from a different angle. BTW, I have the original stormtrooper cover, which is far superior to the crappy one shown on Amazon. I know, I know: Never judge a book by its cover. But a crappy cover is still a depressing thing. If you're planning to buy, I'd try and find the earlier one.
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Post by Somny on Nov 8, 2021 12:30:32 GMT
Fascinating stuff! How's How Star Wars Conquered the Universe, by the way? You've cited the book once before and it seems like an interesting read. Worth picking up? It's a crisp and lively read. Unfortunately, the author isn't a great fan of the prequels and doesn't do much to hide it in the last part of the book. The text has a nice conversational style, though, and many people would probably agree with most of what the author says. It's not what you would call an academic treatise, but it does feel pretty voluminous. It has a much lighter tone than Michael Kaminski's The Secret History Of Star Wars and sweeps in more of the external cultural response to the phenomenon of the films. It's probably a better "potted history" of Star Wars than Kaminski's book and less heavy/overpowering to read. There's a deft touch in the writing, and the way the author breezily weaves in numerous little insights and factual details feels very natural. Nothing deep-dish here, but the author still offers a vivid impression of things with his compendious approach. Ultimately, the book is accessible and fun. It's by no means the final word on Star Wars -- what is? -- but I'm pleased to have a copy. Does any of that explain anything? Basically, the author talks about the development of the Star Wars Saga in chronological order, pulling in a lot of anecdotes and/or "wider world" response to the movies and Star Wars as a whole. There is an interesting chapter, for example, called "Spoof Wars", in which the author talks about Star Wars as a kind of comedy metatext, suggesting that it started life as "more of a light, wispy thing", quoting Mark Hamill who thought the movies (Original Trilogy) "were comedies", and then going on to explore a few occasions in which the films have been spoofed or riffed on and become accepted into the wider sociocultural fabric as a thing ripe with comic or spoofy potential. If nothing else, the book has its moments, here and there, of getting you to look at Star Wars from a different angle. BTW, I have the original stormtrooper cover, which is far superior to the crappy one shown on Amazon. I know, I know: Never judge a book by its cover. But a crappy cover is still a depressing thing. If you're planning to buy, I'd try and find the earlier one. Thank you for this most gracious response, Cryogenic !
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