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Post by Alexrd on Mar 18, 2021 17:14:58 GMT
The irony is that 4K will probably be the last physical home video format.
Speaking of Indiana Jones, after all these years I finally managed to get the Volume Two DVD set of Young Indy.
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Post by thephantomcalamari on Mar 18, 2021 17:34:59 GMT
The irony is that 4K will probably be the last physical home video format. Speaking of Indiana Jones, after all these years I finally managed to get the Volume Two DVD set of Young Indy. Speaking of Young Indy, I wonder if we'll ever be getting another, higher-quality release. I recall hearing years ago that Lowry had actually done a full HD restoration of them, which I guess must be locked away in the vault somewhere. Young Indy should be talked about more. What a great, underrated series. |
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Post by Alexrd on Mar 18, 2021 18:06:40 GMT
Yes, Lowry did the restoration of the series, and those HD masters were used for the DVD release.
I'm willing to bet Young Indy will never get a Blu-ray release, so finally owning the complete series is nice.
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Post by thephantomcalamari on Mar 18, 2021 19:12:40 GMT
Yes, Lowry did the restoration of the series, and those HD masters were used for the DVD release. I'm willing to bet Young Indy will never get a Blu-ray release, so finally owning the complete series is nice. No, probably not a Blu-ray release, but I'd hope we'd get an HD release on one of Disney's streaming platforms eventually (some of the content might be a bit borderline for Disney Plus's extreme family-friendly orientation). |
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Post by Ingram on Mar 18, 2021 20:27:09 GMT
I'm going to buy you a 4K player/TV, Alex. I'm going to buy everyone, currently lacking, a setup, in fact. This business has gone on long enough. Ha! I'm an idiot that should have learned his lesson from the DVD days. After the investment I've already made on Blu-rays, I'm really hesitant about jumping into the new format, specially when it requires a new TV. Blu-ray, to me, is the sweet spot between quality and versatility. You can watch DVDs and Blu rays on a 4K player, nor would I worry about near-future formats nipping at the heels of such an investment. 4K is about as high as one can go for any average living-room-sized "large" television screen when noticing -- appreciating -- the difference compared to lower resolutions, especially when it comes to older remastered titles. An 8K setup for example would only be justified if you were watching movies, I dunno, inside the goddamn NORAD command center or something. This will all make sense when the setup I'm ordering for you arrives.
By the way, which skin-wrap theme do you prefer? You're options are: - 80s-style kitchen formica
- Michael McDonald frosted grey
I would consider whatever goes best with your furniture. |
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Post by smittysgelato on May 31, 2021 3:43:45 GMT
I was comparing the Blu-ray of Revenge of the Sith with the 4K stream the other night and I swear to God the Blu-ray looks better. It is like on the 4K version they sucked the brightness right out of the image. I almost want to start squinting on certain shots. :S
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Post by Cryogenic on May 31, 2021 13:08:24 GMT
I was comparing the Blu-ray of Revenge of the Sith with the 4K stream the other night and I swear to God the Blu-ray looks better. It is like on the 4K version they sucked the brightness right out of the image. I almost want to start squinting on certain shots. :S Recently, in Seeker's Mirroring and Symbolism thread, I've been following Seeker's lead and using 4K captures of the movies from Star Wars Screencaps. And I simply link to them, in most cases, directly from the website. Yesterday, however, when I made that Odessa Steps mashup, I took a different approach and edited all the relevant images into one self-contained file (and then uploaded that file to an image-hosting service). I also brightened up the image of Anakin marching into the Jedi Temple with the clones behind him. I was very conscious of it appearing too dark. The 4K transfer appears to be crushed down a lot compared to the Blu-ray (2K) release, in addition to having a very different colour tone (teal-shifted): 2K:  4K:  A few other examples. Yes, these are pretty much all dark or subdued scenes, but ROTS has rather a lot of them, and I think the difference between the two transfers is quite noticeable in these situations: 2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  2K:  4K:  |
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Post by smittysgelato on May 31, 2021 16:25:04 GMT
I noticed that The Empire Strikes Back suffers from the same problem. There are times where I feel like the brightness is totally sucked out of the image. Particularly on Hoth and during the Falcon scenes when Han & Leia are on the run.
That being said, I think A New Hope and ROTJ are an improvement in 4K.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 31, 2021 16:28:53 GMT
I noticed that The Empire Strikes Back suffers from the same problem. There are times where I feel like the brightness is totally sucked out of the image. Particularly on Hoth and during the Falcon scenes when Han & Leia are on the run. That being said, I think A New Hope and ROTJ are an improvement in 4K. I don't know what it is, but with every Star Wars release, it's like win-loss. Some things get better (often a lot better), but other things seem worse compared to earlier versions. With the right TLC, all these films could look (and sound) spectacular. |
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Post by smittysgelato on May 31, 2021 17:01:52 GMT
I noticed that The Empire Strikes Back suffers from the same problem. There are times where I feel like the brightness is totally sucked out of the image. Particularly on Hoth and during the Falcon scenes when Han & Leia are on the run. That being said, I think A New Hope and ROTJ are an improvement in 4K. I don't know what it is, but with every Star Wars release, it's like win-loss. Some things get better (often a lot better), but other things seem worse compared to earlier versions. With the right TLC, all these films could look (and sound) spectacular. It is really frustrating. Disney is super cheap when it comes to 4K releases. The only 4K presentation from them that I thought looked spectacular was Mulan (1998). |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 31, 2021 17:10:31 GMT
Maybe they'll do an extra-deluxe full restoration when the next fancy-retro format hits the market.
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Post by smittysgelato on May 31, 2021 17:12:12 GMT
Maybe they'll do an extra-deluxe full restoration when the next fancy-retro format hits the market. I can only imagine there will be an 8K restoration in 10 years. But the question is...will it be a competent job? |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 31, 2021 17:42:29 GMT
I don't know what it is, but with every Star Wars release, it's like win-loss. Some things get better (often a lot better), but other things seem worse compared to earlier versions. With the right TLC, all these films could look (and sound) spectacular. It is really frustrating. Disney is super cheap when it comes to 4K releases. The only 4K presentation from them that I thought looked spectacular was Mulan (1998). For the record, this is the best-looking OT film clip I've ever seen: (ROTJ) Rebel briefing and hangar scenes:Title: [HDR DEMO] Star Wars: Return of the Jedi 4K83 TN1—Transferred in Rec. 2020 | PQ HDR by TEKNO3D v2.0 Channel: HDR-X Date: 14 Apr 2021 This is the description: Somewhat controversially, they appear to have enhanced a print that has already been restored/enhanced by the "4K83" team, maybe without permission. That said, old prints are essentially "open source", so I don't see why it really matters. The end result, in my opinion, though not without flaw, speaks for itself. While I think that clip is the absolute best, this one is almost as good -- the colour tone is (again) so good! (ROTJ) Title card and opening crawl:Title: [HDR DEMO] Star Wars: Return of the Jedi 4K83 —Transferred in Rec. 2020 | PQ HDR by TEKNO3D v2.0 Channel: HDR-X Date: 24 Mar 2021 The full description: So those enhancements on both the above clips were applied to an underlying 35 mm film print -- one just that happens to be in good condition and to have already had (fan-funded) restoration applied to it. There are also two clips from Episode IV. These next clips, however, though on the same channel, are instead enhanced versions of the 4K digital release. Thus, they have a different texture, appearing somewhat waxier (the 4K transfers had noise reduction applied). Still, they also look very good: (ANH) Rebel blockade runner corridor battle:Title: [Advanced HDR Grading] Star Wars Ep. IV: A New Hope ( 1977 ) Mastered in High Gamut HDR-X by TEKNO3D Channel: HDR-X Date: 3 Apr 2020 Technical info from the description: (ANH) Jumping to hyperspace and Tarkin/Leia scene:Title: [Advanced HDR Grading] Star Wars Ep. IV: A New Hope ( 1977 ) Mastered in High Gamut HDR-X by TEKNO3D Channel: HDR-X Date: 3 Apr 2020 Same description as before: Now, I don't know about anyone else, but that's how I expected the OT films to look in 4K -- vivid, lively, with real pop and warm, well-saturated (filmic) colours. Of course, I'm just a YouTuber. I don't have a 4K television, so I can't comment on how they look on a well-calibrated, high-quality display. But those clips look fantastic to me. Lastly: Get them while you can. Nothing on YouTube lasts very long. Some clips posted in this thread a little earlier have already been pulled. |
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Post by Alexrd on Jun 5, 2021 21:12:04 GMT
The 4K transfer appears to be crushed down a lot compared to the Blu-ray (2K) release, in addition to having a very different colour tone (teal-shifted): There seems to be something wrong with how those 4K shots were captured/converted to SDR, because the 4K master in both the 4K discs and the new Blu-rays don't have that teal tint. AOTC and ROTS have no changes at all in their color timing when compared to the previous Blu-ray, except the edges on the sides are slightly stretched and the aspect ratio was changed from 2.35:1 to 2.39:1 (the new versions are slightly cropped at the top and bottom). Here's an example from capsaholic. |
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Post by starwarshexalogy on Jun 5, 2021 21:49:40 GMT
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Post by Alexrd on Jun 5, 2021 22:04:13 GMT
Was the new color grading supervised by George Lucas or was it by Disney after he left? These 4K masters were finished in 2012 under Lucas supervision. They were the masters that were going to be used for the 3D releases that were eventually cancelled. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 6, 2021 1:28:32 GMT
The 4K transfer appears to be crushed down a lot compared to the Blu-ray (2K) release, in addition to having a very different colour tone (teal-shifted): There seems to be something wrong with how those 4K shots were captured/converted to SDR, because the 4K master in both the 4K discs and the new Blu-rays don't have that teal tint. AOTC and ROTS have no changes at all in their color timing when compared to the previous Blu-ray, except the edges on the sides are slightly stretched and the aspect ratio was changed from 2.35:1 to 2.39:1 (the new versions are slightly cropped at the top and bottom). Here's an example from capsaholic. Thanks, Alex. What an excellent site! Browsing through those comparison caps (for all the prequels and also the originals), I realised I may have to rescind virtually all of my prior negativity/criticism. Great imagery with solid technical detail. AOTC and ROTS look very similar, indeed -- though TPM, as you seem to have implied by excluding it ("AOTC and ROTS have no changes at all in their color timing"), does exhibit colour differences between the old 2K Blu-ray and the new one based on the 4K transfers. TPMIn a few shots, there is now more magenta (annoyingly), like: - here (approaching Mos Espa) - here (end celebration at Theed) But other shots now look more naturalistic with less magenta, like: - here (sneaking into Theed Palace) Or the saturation is now tamer and more naturalistic, like: - here (Jar Jar speaking to Padme on the queen's ship) There's even less black crush than before, like: - here (wide shot of slave quarters at night) What a stupidly beautiful film TPM is! Thank you so much for putting my mind at ease where ROTS is concerned. You're right: no weird teal-shifting, and no black crushing! So that Star Wars Screencaps site is doing something wrong. Their images look a bit garbage-y and quite compressed, as if from an inferior video source, too. Although it's still supremely useful if you're trying to discuss the movies with caps! But what a nightmare. I need to get these new Blu-rays and create my own caps. Nice. Thanks. Those videos are also quite reassuring, although ROTS still isn't right there. While maybe not as bad as the Star Wars Screencaps site's 4K caps, there still appears to be some black crushing going on. It's also pretty apparent that the prequels need a more thorough remastering if they are to take advantage of the 4K format. Since AOTC and ROTS were only natively shot at 2K, the original captured elements would need to be carefully upscaled, and the visual effects -- including all of the editing work (ditto TPM) -- redone! Yikes. Of course, they still look good. But there is barely any improvement over their earlier 2K transfers. I think there's maybe a smattering more detail sometimes, and in a few shots, you can see less aliasing in some of the selected frames. Which is nice to have, I guess, but it feels like all that extra memory and processing power (for 4K: four times the image data of 2K) is being wasted. The Original Trilogy, on the other hand, is a complete transformation. Perhaps I am getting used to the restrained colours. That shot of Artoo and Threepio in the desert in ANH (the wide shot where they squabble and separate) is shockingly better in the 4K version. There's an amazing upgrade with Luke's artificial hand at the end of TESB, too. Astounding detail. And the shot of Chewie holding Threepio's head on Cloud City, in the prison cell, is also massively improved in the 4K version. Those ridiculously over-the-top whites on the Lowry Digital transfers! Finally gone. Another nice shot that screams 1970s now is Han resting against the wall in the cantina. The piping!!! It has a totally different look on the 4K version. Really nostalgic colour tones. I can see why fans find the 2K transfers hard to take; and why Ingram has been joyously revisiting all the films in their new 4K versions in the past couple of weeks. On the other hand, smittysgelato said he experienced a loss of brightness with ROTS and TESB. So something is going on here. Those caps on caps-a-holic look excellent, but it seems that not everyone is getting those same results. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Jun 6, 2021 4:15:45 GMT
CryogenicThe only reservation I have about my assessment about ROTS 4K & Empire 4K is that I watched them via the streaming service and not on the disc. Streaming can be notorious in terms of quality, but I have found that with most streaming content lately that the quality has really improved. The only way to know for sure is to buy the discs, but what I'm seeing on the streaming service isn't giving me the confidence to spend the extra dough.
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Post by Alexrd on Jun 6, 2021 15:01:27 GMT
Great imagery with solid technical detail. AOTC and ROTS look very similar, indeed -- though TPM, as you seem to have implied by excluding it ("AOTC and ROTS have no changes at all in their color timing"), does exhibit colour differences between the old 2K Blu-ray and the new one based on the 4K transfers. Yes, back when TPM was released in 3D, John Knoll did say that there was a grading done for the Blu-ray and another done for the 3D. When I saw the 3D release, I didn't notice. But now that the 3D master was released, we finally know how different it is. For the most part I think I prefer the 2011 grading, but it is what it is. So that Star Wars Screencaps site is doing something wrong. Their images look a bit garbage-y and quite compressed, as if from an inferior video source, too. Although it's still supremely useful if you're trying to discuss the movies with caps! But what a nightmare. I need to get these new Blu-rays and create my own caps. I bought the Skywalker Saga Blu-ray boxset from the UK, back when it came out. I even managed to sell the sequels for half of what I payed. Although the movies have since been released individually, it's still the cheapest way to get the new versions. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 6, 2021 16:20:48 GMT
Cryogenic The only reservation I have about my assessment about ROTS 4K & Empire 4K is that I watched them via the streaming service and not on the disc. Streaming can be notorious in terms of quality, but I have found that with most streaming content lately that the quality has really improved. The only way to know for sure is to buy the discs, but what I'm seeing on the streaming service isn't giving me the confidence to spend the extra dough. I'm not sure how compressed most streaming sources are, but until recently, at least, I imagine that a Blu-ray encode (around 30 megabits/second) would yield a superior image; especially in frames with fine, rapidly-changing detail like smoke or rain. The one example that always stands out with the prequels in this regard is Kamino. Now, I've never actually streamed the prequels through a streaming service, but I've seen good quality HD versions on YouTube; yet even the DVD image is better (for capturing the rain). Spatial resolution on a higher-resolution YouTube video may be better (and quite apparent to the eye), but YouTube videos are very compressed, and that difference is sometimes quite noticeable with fine detail. I can't believe I've been stuck with DVD all these years -- yes, really! I have a couple of the films in HD, but I won't say how I got them. I think I'm finally going to get a Blu-ray drive for my computer next week. It's ridiculous! I've been using HD content since 2004 (downloaded a glorious bunch of NASA videos and other bits 'n' pieces, including Star Wars HD clips that very year, ironically), but I've never actually owned a Blu-ray device. My thinking, quite recently, was to bite the bullet and just download the movies instead. But I'm a bit pressed for hard drive space; and in any case, the quality wouldn't be quite as good as Blu-ray, would it? On the other hand, Blu-ray is a bit less appealing now because it's disc-based. That's a problem because a) you get noise when the drive is in operation (DVD-ROM drives can be really irritating in that regard), and b) you have to load each disc and it's a bit of a hassle (I get used to just jumping straight onto YouTube to watch something). But a more subtle yet pressing issue is: I want to be able to jump between the films quickly and scan them with ease (for screencapping and visual analysis). Downloading them seems the better option here. You can easily scan and manipulate a computer file. But maybe I could live with Blu-ray for a while. Then again, not??? Grrgh! I wish I wasn't short of hard drive space. Maybe I should buy another hard drive instead. Choices, choices... Great imagery with solid technical detail. AOTC and ROTS look very similar, indeed -- though TPM, as you seem to have implied by excluding it ("AOTC and ROTS have no changes at all in their color timing"), does exhibit colour differences between the old 2K Blu-ray and the new one based on the 4K transfers. Yes, back when TPM was released in 3D, John Knoll did say that there was a grading done for the Blu-ray and another done for the 3D. When I saw the 3D release, I didn't notice. But now that the 3D master was released, we finally know how different it is. For the most part I think I prefer the 2011 grading, but it is what it is. Interesting. The changes are quite minor overall. They obviously couldn't do too much to modify the underlying digital files without mucking up the picture quality. Yet at one time, TPM had a different look, and this can be seen in the tone poems, and also in the Story Featurette: Note: If you want to watch the tone poems in the same order below, in one continuous flow, please use the following link: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLw8ep6cYzDhoQfQavCbfLMa-oyambJX_XHere they all are one at a time: "One Love" (Shmi): "One Dream" (Anakin): "One Destiny" (Qui-Gon): "One Will" (Amidala): "One Truth" (Maul): Those are the main "narrated" ones (by the actors). There are also a few extra ones (albeit with poor picture quality) narrated by someone else*: "Only Hope" (The Queen): "One Friend" (Jar Jar): "Stand Alone" (Obi-Wan): *I think the narrator of these last three might be Terryl Whitlatch! (The giveaway was the Jar Jar one). Anyway, getting distracted. Where was I? Oh, yes: the Story Featurette: That last video is probably the best for showing the way TPM once looked before further grading was applied. The difference is sometimes quite stark, like in the early shot of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan entering the conference room on the Trade Federation ship -- very grey-green looking (versus the blue-ish tones of subsequent releases). Ha! Well, I wouldn't get rid of the sequel installments, in my case. Not sure how often I'd watch them -- maybe a little, maybe a lot! TROS, anyway. But I'd probably have too much fun watching the original six in good-quality HD. I think Star Wars is stronger with nine episodes, but the first six are the "prime data matrix", in my eyes. Either way, whether you're talking six or nine, it's about the best bunch of movies anyone could ever own.  |
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