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Post by Somny on Apr 8, 2020 5:20:41 GMT
The description of what casting was looking for in the actor sought to play the young adult Anakin has always been alluring to me:
"Self-determined, extremely intelligent and forthright."
These are instantly uncommon, hero-grade characteristics. HC embodied it all and it made Anakin's fall from grace feel far more poignant and dramatic as a result.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Sept 15, 2021 15:50:21 GMT
[Anakin] believes that he's the Chisen One. He's not doing wrong things knowing that its having a negative impact. So there's that, sort of, naïveté to him now that wasn't there before, and it makes him more human in a lot of ways. -Hayden Christensen
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 25, 2021 19:14:48 GMT
[Anakin] believes that he's the Chisen One. He's not doing wrong things knowing that its having a negative impact. So there's that, sort of, naïveté to him now that wasn't there before, and it makes him more human in a lot of ways. -Hayden Christensen This is an interesting quote, because in the films Anakin makes no mention of the whole Chosen One prophecy, and is only once within earshot when he is called the Chosen One, when Qui-Gon confronts the Council in TPM. In TCW, he believed it was a myth. In the films, I got the feeling that he didn't put too much stock in the prophecy, but he believed he was the best and could cause change. So in that sense he believed he was the Chosen One to reform the galaxy under his rule.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Sept 26, 2021 9:43:21 GMT
Yeah, I don't think he gave it much thought. That is until after years of Palpatine stroking his ego (I get the idea it's what (indirectly) led him to believe he could become powerful enough to stop death). But even then, I'd say he really didn't start taking stock in it until he turned to the dark side and used it as justification to believe he could overthrow Palpatine (which he could, of course, but that's another story for RotJ), and, as you mentioned, reform the Galaxy under his rule. And this is the part of Episode III Hayden is speaking to. (Last five minutes of video). youtu.be/UqLsQClut5cI think it's important that Anakin not think much of the Prophecy when left to his own devices, in order to show how much Palpatine manipulated him and to show how he suddenly decided to buy into it in order to justify his dark deeds during and immediately after his turn. As in; his rationale wasn't to turn to be evil, it was to do 'good' - his idea of good, at that point. He was using the Chosen One thing as a carte blanche to pursue his personal, selfish desires at that point. As Lucas also says in this video: "Nobody who's evil thinks of themselves as evil. They always believe they're doing good, even though they're not! And so it's a matter of how does a person who is good, turn to becoming an evil person."
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Post by Ingram on Sept 26, 2021 11:13:19 GMT
[Anakin] believes that he's the Chisen One. He's not doing wrong things knowing that its having a negative impact. So there's that, sort of, naïveté to him now that wasn't there before, and it makes him more human in a lot of ways. -Hayden Christensen This is an interesting quote, because in the films Anakin makes no mention of the whole Chosen One prophecy, and is only once within earshot when he is called the Chosen One, when Qui-Gon confronts the Council in TPM. Let's not forget from Episode III the final moment between him and Obi-Wan:
"You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"
Yet it remains an interesting point nonetheless regarding just how comprehensive Anakin was on this particular faith that Obi-Wan inherited from Qui-Gon, let alone how such weighed in on the Council's overall disposition towards him. I suspect, though, he's pretty concrete on the idea, as it's one-half the underlying psychological bedrock of his general angst and that which fuels his indulgence in Palpatine's constant ego-boosting; if he thought himself just another Jedi, why would he ever even entertain so readily in the first place such claims that he's destined to be the most powerful of them all.
But I also reason he doesn't bring it up in the latter two Episodes as it likely highlights a source of both pressure and tension. You can imagine how awkward it would be if your peers/masters held you in reverence -- or suspicion -- as a prophesied savior of the Force, the galaxy etc.
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 26, 2021 15:12:16 GMT
This is an interesting quote, because in the films Anakin makes no mention of the whole Chosen One prophecy, and is only once within earshot when he is called the Chosen One, when Qui-Gon confronts the Council in TPM. Let's not forget from Episode III the final moment between him and Obi-Wan: "You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"
Yet it remains an interesting point nonetheless regarding just how comprehensive Anakin was on this particular faith that Obi-Wan inherited from Qui-Gon, let alone how such weighed in on the Council's overall disposition towards him. I suspect, though, he's pretty concrete on the idea, as it's one-half the underlying psychological bedrock of his general angst and that which fuels his indulgence in Palpatine's constant ego-boosting; if he thought himself just another Jedi, why would he ever even entertain so readily in the first place such claims that he's destined to be the most powerful of them all. Right. It could be argued that the prophecy angle implicitly fuels Anakin's ego and feeds into his hubris, as well as his fears and anxieties. When he dreams about his mother and later Padme in distress, his response to those visions becomes one of grim determination and eschatological foreclosure. While never stated outright, Anakin seems to see it as inevitable that he must take action to prevent outcomes he holds to be real -- a view likely bolstered by the prophecy (like all prophecies) being both just clear enough, and just vague enough, to impress upon him the cosmic rectitude of interceding; of creating new conditions and bending the universe to his will; giving him the warrant, as he later tells Padme, to make things the way they (or he) want them to be (or believe they should go) in a just and ordered cosmos (i.e., if it isn't just and ordered, Anakin must make it so). To play Devil's advocate, Anakin objects to Padme calling him a slave in TPM, protesting that he is a person with a name. Along similar lines, perhaps he doesn't really like the idea of a prophecy, because it saddles him with another label; and again, with its destiny angle, seems to obviate his personhood. Thus, he may just interpret it to mean, "The Jedi think I'm special, therefore I must be special", without paying much heed to the Chosen One label -- or obligation -- until, as Subtext suggests, he goes dark and rationalises his dark deeds as being cosmically ordained. Until then, maybe he's taking more of a "suck it and see" approach and sort of going through life like Watto's chance cube. Blue, it's all on him. Red, there are other forces involved and he *is* the Chosen One. Well, on some level, it all comes down to office politics. The bureaucratic angle cannot be ignored in the PT. The whole trilogy (and, technically, the saga) starts in a conference room and proceeds in a windy, tortuous vein, with much calamity and hijinks, but always comes back to board-rooms, corporate intrigue, and city-planning (the PT is basically a chamber drama or period piece meets HBO's "Rome" and "The Wire"). This is where bashers are both very right and very wrong. 'Cos, yeah, it *is* about the taxation of trade routes, and how layers of stultifying politesse encumber our lives (does a droid factory have a soul?). TESB, the crown jewel of the OT, is itself like a black comedy with Vader/Anakin choking underperforming or overly ambitious subordinates (visiting on his underlings the hurt and humiliation the Jedi originally visited on him). For what it's worth, it's also the only OT movie with a "city in the clouds". Hmm. Anyway, to put it plainly: Anakin is a skilled office assistant, and is basically stifled by his managers for fear of being equalled or superseded. Palpatine tells him the Jedi fear his power and know that he'll eventually be too strong to control; and while quite slippery with the truth, Palpatine never tells a complete lie. You only have to see how Mace reacts to Anakin bringing him the "good news" that the Sith Lord has been found, and it's none other than Palpatine, to experience an example of exactly what Palpatine just said. Mace tells Anakin to remain behind and even backs off from Anakin as he boards the gunship (touche, George!) -- a gunship (militarised hive-mind) to arrest the incumbent Chancellor of the Republic. Anakin evidently knew the truth of this and that his mission was basically a sham. Notice that Mace casually tells Anakin, even before Anakin has said a word, that they're already on their way to the Senate to "make sure" Palpatine hands back his emergency powers. They don't wait for Anakin's report, even though Mace himself gave Anakin the order to report back on Palpatine so that they could get "a clue to his intentions". But, nah -- that's out the window now (pun intended?). They simply gave the boy something to do, just to rattle Palpatine, really. "We're onto you, old man" was the message they wanted to send. Anakin was just their messenger boy. "They want me to spy on the Chancellor?" No -- they only wanted you to get sufficiently agitated that you were being finagled against your high-placed friend that your high-placed friend, if he was as Force-sensitive as the Jedi feared, would cotton onto their scam straight away, and know (via Anakin's mere presence) that his time was almost up. Anakin continues to be the messenger boy under Palpatine: "Send a message to the Trade Federation. All droid units must shut down -- immediately." Anakin knew by then he was being played by both sides (hence him telling Padme in the next scene that he could overthrow Palpatine, all remaining loyalty dissolved, even the carrot of learning the secrets of "Darth Plagueis The Wise" swatted away). Humans are extremely devious, especially when they start manipulating a power structure to their own advantage. That's basically the message of the PT, the backbone of Star Wars: a prescient warning (as edutainment) to us all. The tragedy is that Anakin attempts to get on top of all this and then becomes sucked into the power vortex himself. An object lesson that we must take the warning seriously. There is very little true freedom in the world. Most people live for the machine instead of living for each other.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 26, 2021 16:39:39 GMT
Yeah, I don't think he gave it much thought. That is until after years of Palpatine stroking his ego (I get the idea it's what (indirectly) led him to believe he could become powerful enough to stop death). But even then, I'd say he really didn't start taking stock in it until he turned to the dark side and used it as justification to believe he could overthrow Palpatine (which he could, of course, but that's another story for RotJ), and, as you mentioned, reform the Galaxy under his rule. And this is the part of Episode III Hayden is speaking to. (Last five minutes of video). youtu.be/UqLsQClut5cI think it's important that Anakin not think much of the Prophecy when left to his own devices, in order to show how much Palpatine manipulated him and to show how he suddenly decided to buy into it in order to justify his dark deeds during and immediately after his turn. As in; his rationale wasn't to turn to be evil, it was to do 'good' - his idea of good, at that point. He was using the Chosen One thing as a carte blanche to pursue his personal, selfish desires at that point. As Lucas also says in this video: "Nobody who's evil thinks of themselves as evil. They always believe they're doing good, even though they're not! And so it's a matter of how does a person who is good, turn to becoming an evil person." That makes perfect sense. By being the Chosen One and by being so powerful, he basically thought "might makes right" and believed he was the one to decide what's good for the galaxy. This is an interesting quote, because in the films Anakin makes no mention of the whole Chosen One prophecy, and is only once within earshot when he is called the Chosen One, when Qui-Gon confronts the Council in TPM. Let's not forget from Episode III the final moment between him and Obi-Wan: "You were the Chosen One! It was said that you would destroy the Sith, not join them! Bring balance to the Force, not leave it in darkness!"
Yet it remains an interesting point nonetheless regarding just how comprehensive Anakin was on this particular faith that Obi-Wan inherited from Qui-Gon, let alone how such weighed in on the Council's overall disposition towards him. I suspect, though, he's pretty concrete on the idea, as it's one-half the underlying psychological bedrock of his general angst and that which fuels his indulgence in Palpatine's constant ego-boosting; if he thought himself just another Jedi, why would he ever even entertain so readily in the first place such claims that he's destined to be the most powerful of them all. But I also reason he doesn't bring it up in the latter two Episodes as it likely highlights a source of both pressure and tension. You can imagine how awkward it would be if your peers/masters held you in reverence -- or suspicion -- as a prophesied savior of the Force, the galaxy etc.
Oops, I forgot about that line. But I think Anakin thought of himself as the "Chosen One" in the sense that he knew he had the remarkably high midi-chlorian count and was on track to becoming the strongest of the Jedi, but that he necessarily didn't believe the "balancing the Force" or "destroying the Sith" aspects of the prophecy. Anakin is someone who doesn't like being told what to do with the immense power he has, so it would make sense that he doesn't mention some prophecy that the Council he butts heads with said was his destiny. I feel Anakin wanted to forge his own destiny. Like Subtext says, I think he only started to believe in changing the course of the galaxy once he became power hungry and turned to the dark side. I see Cryo already said as much: To play Devil's advocate, Anakin objects to Padme calling him a slave in TPM, protesting that he is a person with a name. Along similar lines, perhaps he doesn't really like the idea of a prophecy, because it saddles him with another label; and again, with its destiny angle, seems to obviate his personhood. Thus, he may just interpret it to mean, "The Jedi think I'm special, therefore I must be special", without paying much heed to the Chosen One label -- or obligation -- until, as Subtext suggests, he goes dark and rationalises his dark deeds as being cosmically ordained. Until then, maybe he's taking more of a "suck it and see" approach and sort of going through life like Watto's chance cube. Blue, it's all on him. Red, there are other forces involved and he *is* the Chosen One.
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 26, 2021 17:19:06 GMT
Oops, I forgot about that line. But I think Anakin thought of himself as the "Chosen One" in the sense that he knew he had the remarkably high midi-chlorian count and was on track to becoming the strongest of the Jedi, but that he necessarily didn't believe the "balancing the Force" or "destroying the Sith" aspects of the prophecy. Anakin is someone who doesn't like being told what to do with the immense power he has, so it would make sense that he doesn't mention some prophecy that the Council he butts heads with said was his destiny. I feel Anakin wanted to forge his own destiny. Like Subtext says, I think he only started to believe in changing the course of the galaxy once he became power hungry and turned to the dark side. I see Cryo already said as much: To play Devil's advocate, Anakin objects to Padme calling him a slave in TPM, protesting that he is a person with a name. Along similar lines, perhaps he doesn't really like the idea of a prophecy, because it saddles him with another label; and again, with its destiny angle, seems to obviate his personhood. Thus, he may just interpret it to mean, "The Jedi think I'm special, therefore I must be special", without paying much heed to the Chosen One label -- or obligation -- until, as Subtext suggests, he goes dark and rationalises his dark deeds as being cosmically ordained. Until then, maybe he's taking more of a "suck it and see" approach and sort of going through life like Watto's chance cube. Blue, it's all on him. Red, there are other forces involved and he *is* the Chosen One. Yep, I do think it makes sense to read it that way, for the most part. Look at the way he blanches at Qui-Gon's explanation of midi-chlorians. He seemed genuinely curious to learn what they were when he first asks Qui-Gon, until Qui-Gon tells him they "live inside" him, and that they are "symbionts" that "continually speak to us", communicating "the will of the Force". That all seemed too much for Anakin to wrap his mind around: "I have these little creatures inside me? I'm some kind of biological city? And these things are trying to tell me how to act and I'm meant to listen?" No wonder he acts a little too innocent to Qui-Gon, when the Quister tells him to find a safe place in Theed Hangar and stay there. The dirty hippy had already started to bore him with his trite demands and silly ravings.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 26, 2021 18:47:44 GMT
Oops, I forgot about that line. But I think Anakin thought of himself as the "Chosen One" in the sense that he knew he had the remarkably high midi-chlorian count and was on track to becoming the strongest of the Jedi, but that he necessarily didn't believe the "balancing the Force" or "destroying the Sith" aspects of the prophecy. Anakin is someone who doesn't like being told what to do with the immense power he has, so it would make sense that he doesn't mention some prophecy that the Council he butts heads with said was his destiny. I feel Anakin wanted to forge his own destiny. Like Subtext says, I think he only started to believe in changing the course of the galaxy once he became power hungry and turned to the dark side. I see Cryo already said as much: Yep, I do think it makes sense to read it that way, for the most part. Look at the way he blanches at Qui-Gon's explanation of midi-chlorians. He seemed genuinely curious to learn what they were when he first asks Qui-Gon, until Qui-Gon tells him they "live inside" him, and that they are "symbionts" that "continually speak to us", communicating "the will of the Force". That all seemed too much for Anakin to wrap his mind around: "I have these little creatures inside me? I'm some kind of biological city? And these things are trying to tell me how to act and I'm meant to listen?" No wonder he acts a little too innocent to Qui-Gon, when the Quister tells him to find a safe place in Theed Hangar and stay there. The dirty hippy had already started to bore him with his trite demands and silly ravings. And Anakin never quite learns to "quiet his mind" under Obi-Wan's tutelage, so he never really hears the midi-chlorians speaking to him. Maybe they would have spoken about the prophecy, meaning that he ends up a bit ignorant about it. This is again one of those things that, had Qui-Gon lived to serve as Anakin's master, perhaps he would have been more well informed about the prophecy and the midi-chlorians, two things that Qui-Gon championed, while the Council didn't as much. Which I think is interesting, because Qui-Gon says "When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you" with such confidence, that I believe he believed that he could impart this wisdom to Anakin. Obi-Wan conversely tells him to think and use the Force, which opens up another interesting thing which is a little off topic and I will make a post about that in the Qui-Gon thread.
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 26, 2021 19:03:17 GMT
Yep, I do think it makes sense to read it that way, for the most part. Look at the way he blanches at Qui-Gon's explanation of midi-chlorians. He seemed genuinely curious to learn what they were when he first asks Qui-Gon, until Qui-Gon tells him they "live inside" him, and that they are "symbionts" that "continually speak to us", communicating "the will of the Force". That all seemed too much for Anakin to wrap his mind around: "I have these little creatures inside me? I'm some kind of biological city? And these things are trying to tell me how to act and I'm meant to listen?" No wonder he acts a little too innocent to Qui-Gon, when the Quister tells him to find a safe place in Theed Hangar and stay there. The dirty hippy had already started to bore him with his trite demands and silly ravings. And Anakin never quite learns to "quiet his mind" under Obi-Wan's tutelage, so he never really hears the midi-chlorians speaking to him. Maybe they would have spoken about the prophecy, meaning that he ends up a bit ignorant about it. This is again one of those things that, had Qui-Gon lived to serve as Anakin's master, perhaps he would have been more well informed about the prophecy and the midi-chlorians, two things that Qui-Gon championed, while the Council didn't as much. Which I think is interesting, because Qui-Gon says "When you learn to quiet your mind, you'll hear them speaking to you" with such confidence, that I believe he believed that he could impart this wisdom to Anakin. Obi-Wan conversely tells him to think and use the Force, which opens up another interesting thing which is a little off topic and I will make a post about that in the Qui-Gon thread. And about that little Qui-Gon moment: Qui-Gon's face when Anakin asks him about the midi-chlorians: Anakin's face when Padme suggests that Obi-Wan wants to help him: It's the same expression with the same contented/demented "star sparkle" in their eye and the same chiaroscuro lighting style. How Anakin thinks he has moved beyond all tutelage, all masters... By ROTS, the path of wisdom is no longer being trodden, and the galaxy has become a dark forest.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 1, 2021 9:15:02 GMT
Here's some quotes from the Episode II Featurettes. GL: "[Episode II] is essentially a story about Anakin and Anakin's dealings with his emotions and the difficulty of his being torn between his duty and his emotional needs, which relate to Padmé." In a nutshell, Hayden Christensen elaborates on this by saying that Anakin's anger and anxiety are "products of his confusion." And that "Anakin is very passionate about the path he wants to take as a Jedi. He's very determined and he feels he's being held back and he wants to break free from that. But then at the same time he's found this new love in his life which takes him in a completely different direction." And that he equally "feels passionately about Padmé." (The editors of the featurettes splice up the interviews a lot, so it's hard to pin down one concise quote). Lucas also says "Anakin's flaws, like all classic mythological heroes, are the flaws that everyone carries with them. The issues that he's confronting is, the good Jedi overcomes those flaws and kinda goes above the normal tragedy that most people have to experience." And in the Debunking thread, Cryo recently brought up a good point that I've been considering: the influence Watto had on Anakin's psyche, which I'll quote here. Also, this person is focusing on Episode I Anakin to the exclusion of Episode II and Episode III Anakin -- and quite a caricatured one, at that. Anakin is never quite a Boy Scout. Or if he is, all Boy Scouts must equally have the capacity to go wrong. The point of the story is that Anakin is corrupted by greed. It is the thing that ultimately destroys him. There is therefore some irony to the fact that Anakin, even at his most innocent, is immersed in a world of greed and practically its plaything. Even Qui-Gon reassuringly tells him: "Greed can be a powerful ally." And it emerges that Anakin has some greed of his own, whether the greed around him has seeped in and imprinted itself on his psyche, or he has developed a measure of greed as a coping mechanism. One must remember that the first "father" Anakin appears to have isn't Palpatine, Obi-Wan, or even Qui-Gon, but Watto: a small creature who revels in greed and avarice, seemingly for their own sake. Which expands on and ties in well with what I said in the thread titled Anakin's Fall: Schools Of Thought, in regards to Anakin's obsession with Padmé, A starving person is going to think a lot about food. And they're often going to develop a hoarding mentality towards it once they get it.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Nov 2, 2021 13:24:45 GMT
I really liked the analysis of whether Anakin is a psychopath in this video: The psychiatrist knows his stuff about Star Wars and takes the film seriously, which is refreshing. He takes into account Anakin's age and even mentions his harsh upbringing. This is the type of analysis these films deserve, because the characters, especially Anakin, are that complex and real. I think the mainstream medias are coming around to the prequels, slowly but surely. Watto's influence on Anakin is indeed interesting to think about. Watto owned Anakin and Shmi, and Anakin ends up being very possessive of Padmé, treating her like an object. Watto: "You can't have him, it wasn't a fair bet." Anakin: "You won't take her from me!" There is also this similarity of them saying "How can you do this?"
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Dec 14, 2021 18:59:28 GMT
I'm doing a rewatch of the films again, and this time paying close attention to any Vader-like characteristics and mannerisms Anakin has in the prequels. To me one of the interesting things about Vader/Anakin as a character is his duality, and the fact that as a Jedi he didn't hold the power and authority he did as a Sith. Anakin is power hungry, and frustrated that he is denied the rank he feels he deserves based on his skills. The Clone Wars tended to portray Anakin as a more respected general, but based on the films alone, you don't necessarily get the impression that he is. By RotS he is the "Hero With No Fear," but we don't see him leading troops until he turns to the dark side. Interestingly, in the opening battle, it is Obi-Wan who leads the clone fighters. So spotting moments where he is trying to command respect and act authoritatively are rarer. Some people say that Anakin is too different to Vader and that it's not believable for him to become the Vader of the OT. I think this is simply wrong. The character is surprisingly different, yet similar in subtler ways. This creates the interesting, multifaceted character that is Anakin/Vader. When he is assigned to protect Padmé, he tries to take a leading role in her protection. This springs the argument with his master Obi-Wan, who is really in charge and shoots him down. "We will find out who's trying to kill you, Padmé. I promise you," he says. He's trying to sound authoritative, but really he's almost wrapped in his robes, probably expecting a scolding from Obi-Wan. In the bar, he commands the patrons to go about their business: "Easy, Jedi business. Go back to your drinks." When they have captured Zam, he gets angry and starts bossing her around: "Who hired you? Tell us. Tell us now!" In the Theed palace throne room, he is similarly standing by his "leader" like he does at the Imperial council. Both times he defies his superior before being put in his place. "I'm in charge of security here, my lady." He intimidates Watto with a Vader-like faux cordiality. "I would like to know." Similar to "We would be honored if you would join us." This whole scene is subtly one of his most Vader-like moments in the prequels, when he towers over Watto and scares even the hardened swindler with his mere presence. He commands the LAAT clone pilot: "Aim right above the fuel cells." He further commands the pilot. "It's Dooku. Shoot him down," "Follow him," "Put the ship down!"
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Post by Subtext Mining on Feb 28, 2023 10:38:51 GMT
Anakin, despite being a slave, was a generous, good-natured child who was always able to make the most of what he had. But after arriving on Coruscant, he also had a mentor who was secretly a Sith Lord, who knew how to manipulate people.
In Episode I we saw that besides being gifted in the Force, Anakin was basically like most other kids: lofty ambitions ("I wanna be the first one to see 'em all!") strong sense of identity (a person, not just a slave) pride ("I'm the only human that can do it.") a belief that Jedi can do whatever they want and strong bond with his mother.
However, in the hands of Palpatine, these natural, healthy traits could be molded and shaped into a sense of self-righteousness and entitlement.
And with flaws like that framing his constitution, Anakin was set up for a fall, so to speak. He was heading down a path that would not only collide with the Jedi values, but would likely come to a head in some volatile moment. Which would then create a hook with which Palpatine could pull him into the dark side.
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Post by tonyg on Feb 28, 2023 23:42:45 GMT
I would add that because he was a slave, he had how to say it, peculiar attitude towards authority and secrets and this became a big problem for him later. Yes, he was a normal child (emotionally), even a very bright and sympathetic child. But also he was a slave. This means three main things in my opinion.
First, he is looking desperately for respect and recognition (I'm a person!) and this is a tricky situation in a order where there are very strict rules about individual vs.collective and being humble and not thinking for himself. Is not that every teenager is not seeking such recognition, all the opposite, but in Anakin's case this is a very sensitive topic and it can be seen in Episode 2. Shortly, Padme is the one who can react adequately to this because she shows him respect and tries to persuade him instead of just telling him what to do. (when he is himself, she actually succeeds in that almost always).
Second, being a slave shows to a person a "structure" of the world that is not quite pleasant. The masters in this world are the slavers, i.e. the bad guys have the power, even over human's life. So Anakin is not particularly inclined to follow orders not only because he is hot-headed and young (which is natural for young people) but because he was in a position where authority doesn't mean respect (as is in the Jedi Order) but bad things (and masters). Of course, things change, however, Anakin is not so inclined to obey to people who have the official authority over him (Palpatine is not one of those people, he is a "friend") and that is why is so easier for him to question some orders that he thinks that are not adequate (like the in the case of the protection of Padme). And this attitude is the complete opposite to what the Jedi Order teaches its Padawans. So this is another problem that Anakin has, especially in his teen years (Episode 2): obedience for the seek of obeying is not something that he would do. Is not only out of his character, but also out of his personal experience. This looks paradoxically if we have in mind that later in his life he serves to a dictatorship, but actually there he was in position of power and that gives him a very different perspective (presumably, of course, because he was still a slave, while he does not realize it till Episode 6).
Third, the secrets. Having secrets is obligatory for a slave to survive. We can see that in Episode 1, where all Anakin has as possessions is because Watto doesn't know about them, including the pod. So, having such secrets is more than natural for him. He shares secrets only with people who he trusts completely (unfortunately one of them is Palpatine) but he doesn't look to the secrets as something dangerous, mostly they are useful for him. Eventually, the secrets are that mess up his life but his attitude towards secrets is defined by his experience as a slave (is not that later in his life he receives so many proofs against them, all the opposite). So, in my opinion, his time as a slave is often ignored by the public. Only because Watto was not a bad master, it doesn't mean that this period didn't bring him scars. Of course, in a different situation Anakin would be able to overcome them, but in his situation,with these restrictive rules of the Order, the problem of the obedience and so on, it was highly unlikely.
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Post by tonyg on Mar 1, 2023 23:03:08 GMT
We didn't discussed this much but regarding Anakin and his attitude towards authority, I think that he is not the type who was seeking power literally (before his falling, I mean). He was seeking control which is not the same. Control means no risk or casualties in regards to something (or someone) he cares about. In short, if we can describe him as archetype, Anakin is the sentinel. He was born to protect and guard not to govern over others (power corrupts). Ironically even after his falling he continues to be sentinel in a very twisted way, guarding the castle of evil if I can say so. So this is one of his defining characteristics I think: he is indeed a Knight and when he fell he somehow tried to continue to be a knight (but that was impossible of course). Of course, being a Sith he already was interested in power and so on, my point is that there are nuances in his desperate seeking of control: he is not the type who is seeking to be the leader. He is capable to lead others in battle but being a leader at least in the beginning is not his intent at all.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Mar 3, 2023 17:41:42 GMT
Good points, Yes, Anakin would naturally have somewhat of a trauma with authority figures, and therefore a tendency to bristle at them. The part about Palaptine being just a friend and not an authority figure is an excellent point.
And you reminded me I've been wanting to add that being a slave would naturally give Anakin a fear of change and loss. At any moment, without warning, he and his mom could be separated at a slave owner's whim, or his projects could be confiscated. He must've grown up with an underlying fear of never being sure what devastating changes tomorrow could bring.
And yes, it's common for children, especially those growing up in adverse conditions, to seek whatever form of control they can find. Traumatized kids who act out, are usually basically doing so to find some form of control in their lives.
These, with a seeking for recognition and respect, are like putty in Palpatine's hands. "You don't need guidance, Anakin. In time you will learn to trust your feelings, then you will be invincible. I have said it many times, you are the most gifted Jedi I have ever met. I see you are becoming the greatest of all the Jedi, Anakin. Even more powerful than Master Yoda." really sums it all up.
And yes, his propensity to harbor secrets is also major, as it's the linchpin of his fall, combined with the above.
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Post by Samnz on Mar 3, 2023 22:24:14 GMT
Willingness to help: Anakin is relentlessly helpful, he doesn't want to let anybody down and that is not only restricted to the people he loves (his mother, his wife), but includes random clones in a battle over Coruscant or a group of people he's only loosely associated with (the slaves on Tatooine). As it goes with all good characerization, that first and foremost good trait is turned into something harmful when he becomes obsessed with saving the ones he loves.
Ambition: Anakin is ambitious. He sets high goals for himself, wants to improve, become a better Jedi and surpass his masters. That said, this is also a cause for his discontent in combination with his impatience, especially as a result of moments of failure, which propels him to the dark side ("I am Jedi. I know I am better than this.").
Insecurity: He "knows" he's better than this, but does he really? There is a deep part in Anakin that's vulnerable and insecure. His whole approach in regard to Padmè is based on insecurity. He's nervous, trying to impress and failing at that. He is also afraid of being not powerful enough.
Strong: Anakin is strong, he is very athletic, skilled and powerful. He's also fragile, though, and fragile power is a potential danger.
Just a few thoughts.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Mar 4, 2023 9:35:14 GMT
In a sense, both Luke and Anakin were Lucas' self-insert characters, but I think later on Lucas came to identify more with Anakin. He said that Anakin was his favorite character once (though he would also say that about Yoda), and he also said that everything he writes is his life. So we can look to Lucas for some of Anakin's traits, like his enjoyment of high-speed racing, building, fixing and tinkering with things, as well as great dreams of being the first one ever to see all the stars. So Anakin, like Lucas, did have great ambitions and dreams of grandeur. Think of the forever project that were the Special Editions. Lucas wanted to make them perfect, tweaking and tinkering with them all the way up to his selling the franchise. And Lucas' filmmaking style that emphasized the editorial part, where he could assemble the film in any which way. That was when he was the happiest. "Life seems so much simpler when you're fixing things." There are seemingly contradictory aspects to both of them. They are at the same time guarded and cerebral, as well as thrill seekers. Anakin enjoyed racing and flying above all else, and this was one of the few times when his moody side gave way to pure enjoyment. "Now this is podracing!" "This is where the fun begins!"
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Post by Subtext Mining on Mar 5, 2023 11:01:17 GMT
Yeah, it's fascinating how layered Anakin is, and how all of his traits interplay together. His enjoyment, talent and pride in fixing things, together with his protector instincts, with an added dash of Palpatine manipulation, can be turned into the desire to keep loved ones alive, even if it means going against the laws of nature. After all, that's just a life of significance and conscience, right?
And yes, he also has high expectations for himself. Losing his mother was devastating enough, but on top of that, he felt responsible, by not having the power to save her and being too late. He felt he failed as a Jedi and that he failed her, the one person he cares the most about. It was the moment that defined the rest of his life, His resulting guilt compelled him to continue clinging tight to Padmé and searching intently for the power to save her when he thought she was going to die.
The following is from the Mortis arc, which I feel is the most insightful bit of dialogue from the whole TCW series.
The Son as Shmi: Tell me, where is your pain? So that I might take it away.
Anakin: I was too late to save you. I failed as a Jedi, and I failed you.
Shmi: How so?
Anakin: I tasted only vengeance when I slaughtered so many to avenge your death.
Shmi: It is time you realized that your guilt does not define you, you define your guilt.
Anakin: The only love I feel in my heart, is haunted by what would happen should I let go.
Shmi: Then it is not love, it is a prison.
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