Your top 3 Star Wars movies

I've never understood the concept of ranking things. Be it movies/books in a saga, albums by a band etc. They all make up one narrative, and are all each unique and special in their own way.

Episodes I-VI are all tied for first for me.
*With the possible exception of ESB being a close 2nd but mostly because I think it's overhyped/over-touted/used as the standard by, as Alessio would say, the OT nostalgia-bros. I kind of see it as more of an aberration than anything else. (I've always wanted to start a thread on how ESB is overemphasized).

To use the old but true cliche, it's like ranking your favorite children.

I don't know, when people force me to answer what my favorite SW film is I usually say, "which ever one I'm watching at the moment?" While also simultaneously keeping the other 5 in context.

And I don't consider any of the Disney things SW, so... sips tea.
"Where are you taking this... thing?"

I don't get what criteria people even use to rank, for example, SW movies. The production? What's most important to me is the story. How is any one part of the story "not as good" as another? Each movie has its equal share of important story elements, captivating moments, excitement, drama, humor etc. They're all each everything they're meant to be.

In the past I have said that I find TPM and AotC the purest forms of Star Wars, or of Lucas at least. Because he had complete freedom to do what ever he wanted stroy-wise And had the technology to do it (unlike w/ANH). But that doesn't mean I find them better than the others, or deserving of a higher rank.

I'm a strong opponent of the ranking concept and can't abide by it.
I find it tawdry and overly-critical... it's not fair!

Alex, my friend... you are now officially saltier than Crait!

I mean, I see that you kept some affirmation of heresy going by depriving the last three of their "episode" nomenclature in your poll. Hmpf! How perverse.

Pulling your leg. It's all fine. Though I'm glad you did include the Disney offerings, of course.

If you hadn't, I'd have put my non-existent lawyers on you.



Yes! I think I've had a phase like that. Beginning-Middle-End. No-one's ever really thought of that as a viewing order, have they? Philistines.

There's definitely something to liking the prime structural pillars of the saga. The roughly evenly-spaced stones in the pond.

Welcome to the garden of action-comedy zen that is Lucas and Star Wars.

Dig that structure and cause a rupture. 



Me, either. It's where mankind has been going wrong since the beginning -- or The Beginning.



Every day is special when you spend it with people you love.




Polygamist!


Bro, how can you not like "Empire" the most/best? 




The old Lucas cliche. Mind you, as you said, all joking aside, it's true.



That's like me and Elvis songs/eras. It's better dig to dig the "process known as Elvis Presley", just as it's more enjoyable to dig the journey that is Star Wars.



Racist! MIDI once thought that Star Wars under Disney is better described as "Star Awakens". Like, it's not of exactly the same essence, and is more an adaptation: a new form of life. Or maybe the most polished spinoff series of all time.



This is, all kidding aside, both a clever dodge and a very enlightened way of putting it. There is a great deal of something to the idea that the movies form an integrated, majestic, architectonic whole. In combination, and even in isolation, they pleasingly exude a strong sense of concinnitas. 

I wish that I could just wish away my feelings. 

I wish that I could find the earlier page I used to refer to about this concept, but I can't. This one will have to do:

www.concinnitascorp.com/the-nature-of-concinnitas.html



They're all worthy; and all worthy of being considered equally worthy. But, in my case, some commend themselves a little higher in my mind, a little more often. For instance, I once said how wonderful it would be (or not) if there were a fleet of Star Wars movies exactly like AOTC. 

And that's exactly where my answer comes in:

If we're talking about the "Lucas Six", then my choice is for what I term "The Outer Trilogy", or I, II, and VI. I like the outer films because they have a certain colour, vigour, and jazz-riff ambience not so easily encountered in the middle ones. They're also structurally linked, of course. Basically, if you go from II to VI, you have a sort of "double return" occurring (both crawls describe a female and male "Skywalker" returning to a planet; and a male Skywalker returns to Tatooine in both), and other details become important, like the zany shift from clones to stormtroopers, and the Emperor being unseen to the Emperor being revealed as a tyrannical god-like being; how we see Anakin being blindly led astray, and then Luke directly contending with this same force and being "the child" that is "father to the man".

Another interesting link concerns Anakin's arm. He loses his one arm against "the mysterious Count Dooku", and takes Padme's hand in his robot replacement, and it's this hand that Luke severs at the end of their duel in VI -- which notably causes Vader to cry out, as if the last vestiges of what he was clinging onto (he both took Padme's hand and subsequently choked her with the same hand) have been taken from him; like he is actually being freed from a terrible burden. Just as Anakin dreams of freeing the slaves, so Luke frees up the remaining midi-chlorians in Anakin's wrecked body, cleansing them of sorrow -- Anakin's temple now purged as his parishioners bring hope and joy back to their dwelling.

Same with how you end with an idyllic (if lonely/morbid) wedding scene at a lake, and then such imagery seems to disappear, until the mother crotch bursts open and nature/warmth/life returns to the world with Endor. And then, as you've noted yourself, twigs/sticks (attachment of the sticks), and Han stepping on that twig, which initiates the arrival of the tree-dwelling helpers, on the aforementioned Endor. Speeder bikes being another connection. There are other links I am presently forgetting. Oh, yeah! Red Death Stars. Honestly, this particular "floral arrangement" of Star Wars pleases me greatly. As far as I and VI go (sounds like I am neglecting TPM here), Ingram and I once spat out some decent resonances in this thread:

boards.theforce.net/threads/whats-your-favourite-sw-movie-pairing.50023836/page-2#post-51890434

And now, of course:

The Disney movies are a done thing: a fait accompli. And since I've become a bit of a "Sequel Trilogy" admirer (I still don't care for much of the non-saga "ancillary" material)...

The three films I voted for are I, II, and IX. Though, in all honesty, I should probably have picked I, VIII, and IX. TPM, y'see, retains a special place in my heart. The art direction is still to die for, I love seeing everything in its earlier, more regal register, and, well: Jar Jar. And Liam Neeson. Add in a kick-ass John Williams score, some of the most amazing visual effects and sound design for a movie ever attempted, and gorgeous cinematography throughout, and well, TPM definitely feels the most complete and thorough disquisition on this creative/mythic property there's ever been. It's just one heck of a brilliantly-realised movie. Of course, there is always more. Another thing that commends TPM to my heart is how plush and youthful -- and yet wise and knowing -- it all plays and feels. It is this very lush and creamy and dreamy and serene and wonderful thing. You feel young and smart and renewed watching it. And most of all: transported. What's that? A transport! I'm saved.

In other ways, I would be inclined to go for a third triad (a triune of triads), and that would be II, VIII, and IX. Because AOTC is another "pure" take on the series, and IX, if you ask me, seems to take some lessons from AOTC, resonating against it with a generous platter of planets (AOTC has five main environments instead of the usual three), a goofy, reckless energy, and some deep-dish lore. And Rey slays Kylo like Obi-Wan slays the acklay. Acklay/Anakin. AOTC is also the SW movie where a true sense of suffering and sorrow and things-going-wrong enters the picture. Poor Anakin. Even Yoda senses that he's in "terrible pain". There's a momentous and weirdly bittersweet feel to the events of AOTC and the way they're portrayed. It may sound bananas if you can't stand the Disney expansion/contraction, but I get a similar vibe from TROS. Also: Jedi speaking to other Jedi through the Force. So many links. Though the pictures remain their own locked-in things.   

Now -- why have I slipped VIII, Rian Johnson's foul beast of a movie, in two of those triads? Because it's punk rock or atonal jazz or something. It's hellaciously different. A wickedly awesome creation. Yet it also respects and pays great homage to the meta structuring of Star Wars. And I think it takes the characters of Luke, Kylo, and Rey (another triad) very seriously. In fact, there are all kinds of triadic structures in TLJ, just as there are in TPM, from their titles on down. The three rebel ships that the First Order pursues. The three lessons Luke gives to Rey. Kylo "interfering" between Rey and Luke on the island. Rey being something of a "third path" between the light (Luke) and the dark (Kylo). The three structures that Rey, Luke, and Yoda destroy on the island. The three times that Rey and Kylo "skype" one another before touching hands. It's a pretty surly, offbeat, and underrated entry in the SW saga. In my opinion, anyway.

And then, see, after the grubby worldbuilding and grim thematics of TLJ, you get the gift of TROS: an epic explosion of light, colour, humour, whimsy, silliness, and surreality. Star Wars often breaks off from the group and digresses, only to find itself and return with renewed purpose. It likes to plunge into its own recessed grottos and estranged interstices, only to come back transformed; only to transform and transcend yet again. That is one of the chief pleasures in finding episodes that contradict and contrast one another. They actually form complementary x-y pairings. Force Dyads. Such a cool concept! Even if a bit on the comic-book-y, guilty-pleasure side of things. It's like Luke using the Force at the end of ANH. He's doing okay, then he reaches a sort of impasse. And the solution is ringing in his ears and was quietly whispering to him all along: he taps into the universe's underlying erotic potential and that grey thing is all mashed up and destroyed. He blowed it up real good. That's Star Wars, y'all. 

The Disney films have made Star Wars, for want of a better descriptor, holographic. Now the movies, their events, their concerns, their hooks, their eccentricities, their angles... well, they all just leap off the silver screen of the mind's eye. It's better now. The saga has become even more panoramic, connected, and consuming. It's a deeper equation; a more complete "theory of everything". You could just interpret the sequels as a glorious what-if. What if Han and Leia had an only son and he fell to the Dark Side? It's brilliant. Full-on amazeballs. I mean, yeah, there are questionable decisions of storytelling and structure, but they still pulled something surprising and interesting out of the ocean of the collective unconscious. Search your feelings.

All apoplectic apologetics aside, I like how TROS has a pseudo prequel ballast about it. As stampid has said, the ST gives more weight and presence to the OT by stretching out its basic story beats and investing the whole thing with a bit more gravitas, in light of the PT. The PT paradoxically balanced and unbalanced the saga at the same time. It made the OT deeper and richer, but then (the PT) was almost too much of a good thing, and no-one could really accept it. With the ST, opinions are more mixed, with "The Fandom Menace" verging on outright rejection of Disney's choices: history repeating. Guess what this means? The ST has more in common with the prequels than people think. Even JJ Abrams apparently distrusts/dislikes the movie he just made. That's ideal. Abrams is so-so on the prequels. See? It was the destiny of the ST that it should end up this way. As a result, I seem to like it more. It's just how Luke describes the Force to Rey: "It's the energy between all things, the tension, the balance, that binds the universe together." He doubts the Jedi, but he sure don't doubt the Force!  

And that's basically what the ST is -- or, in a way, what my newfound fanaticism/affection is all about. For every action, an equal and opposite reaction. Okay, that's Newton, and we've gone beyond him, but it's still true. So, in a way, when I say my chosen three are TPM, AOTC, and TROS, I'm giving you the prequels (TROS is an anagram of ROTS), just in a revised form. I'm also giving you the OT and the ST in the same instance. Three generations, three configurations, nine movies, all whirring and purring together. A finely tuned car engine. A single-force Bernoulli Convergenator. Plus... I'm Kylo.

Thank you, and good night.

😆😆😆

I'm only being faithful to Disney's branding decision of their own movies.

bold choices!

The interesting phenomenon you'll notice when you poll the masses is that of the first six films, it's the more masculine three that make the top three. Just as Alex pointed out; TPM, AotC and RotJ usually get lumped to the bottom of the polls and thus are comparatively made to look bad.

Maybe that's why I see ranking and polling as some juvenile alpha-male popularity contest.

Time Index: 12:00


As do I. Looking back to the heady era of those cosmic 1970s blockbusters, I rank the original "Superman" and "Star Trek: The Motion Picture" far above the surfeit of sequels that emerged, including other fantasy franchises that have since emerged and come to dominate cinema in their wake. Heck, I even place them above the original Star Wars, on some levels. While derived from existing properties, it's fair to say that they both convey powerful, original visions; and both were also strongly influenced by "2001" (as, indeed, was Lucas with THX and Star Wars). As much as a fan I am of Star Wars, I hold a special place in my heart for what Richard Donner and Robert Wise and their crews achieved and brought to the silver screen in 1978 and 1979. Their brilliant pictures boldly exhibit superb, world-class craftmanship that still shines to this day, and they both retain a genuine sense of the sublime. Watching them is still a thrill. And all achieved with optical effects, long before digital technology became viable. 

Funny, too, that "Superman" pulled on the talents of Star Wars luminaries John Williams and John Barry, as well as locking up DP Geoffrey Unsworth, who was the cinematographer on the aforementioned "2001", and Lucas' first choice for Star Wars (he settled, of course, for another Kubrick collaborator: Kubrick's DP on "Dr. Strangelove", Gilbert Taylor, who Lucas had a contentious working relationship with, compounding his various woes in getting the original film made). The success of Star Wars gave everyone involved on Superman a jolt in the arm, causing them to redouble their efforts as they now had confirmation there was a taste for well-realised high fantasy. The Salkinds, as huckster-ish as they could be, actually considered hiring Lucas (and Spielberg and many others) for directorial duties after the success of "American Graffiti". Imagine if that had happened! It took a long time for their picture to get off the ground; just as it did with Star Tek. Fortunately, Star Wars, Superman, and Star Trek: TMP all acquit themselves admirably, despite production difficulties, in their own ways.

And it was Star Wars that essentially made sure Star Trek was brought back as an epic motion picture, ending the flip-flopping about whether there should be a new television series (which, of course, there almost was; with some of the concepts being poured into the TMP, and later, ST:TNG), or whether some kind of mid-budget B-movie would be a better option (TMP, of course, turned into a full-blown A-movie, and along with Superman, was the most expensive film ever made at the time). Audiences were really treated to some astonishing blockbuster films at the end of the 1970s. In my mind, that short era has never been recaptured. By the time the 1980s rolled around, harder, coarser action movies were in vogue, and then colourful and somewhat smarmy blockbusters took over in the 1990s, and it's never really been the same since. If anything, the prequels were like an oasis in the desert, and I even hold that to be true of the Sequel Trilogy, a little bit. 

Talking of the Sequel Trilogy: 

I find the boldness of those films goes in reverse. The conclusion (while, in some ways, both rushed and obvious) is much wilder and ambitious than the starting point. In my opinion, anyway. With the PT, it's sort of 50-50. TPM and ROTS are both epic and meritorious pictures. With the OT, I'm generally much keener on ROTJ than ANH, but ANH is the one that started it all, so again, it comes out close to 50-50. I just think, with the Disney movies (I know you're not keen on them -- let Cryo have his "old man rambling with his beer glass in hand" rant and I'll soon be done!), you have a somewhat offputting situation where the first movie is safe and dull, almost a franchise-killer, then the next one is bolder, but also a franchise-killer, and then people can't be bothered with the last one, even though it has the most Star Wars-y feel of the three (subjectively speaking), and is exerting itself to be a little more seat-of-the-pants and prequel-esque with its infusion of juicy lore.

More than that, I find TROS, and Abrams' second crack of the whip at a saga movie, ends up having all these "diamond bead"/Easter Egg-ish happenings, which imbues the picture with a curious charm. Even the play-it-safe lesbian kiss fits nicely into that same delirious aesthetic. Little blink-and-you'll-miss-it things that create the impression of a lively, more detailed whole. Sort of like Pointillism. It's also how ROTS starts with its dramatic canvas of war. The three PT openings are very nearly emblematic of the basic tone and construction of each of the corresponding Disney films. TPM, a boring but entirely solid ship shot, and an elusive sense of mystery. AOTC, sleek Naboo ships juxtaposed against a strange jewel of a planet: a sort of unsettling mismatch; with the ships winding up casually destroyed; and the camera panning up, subverting your expectations. ROTS, new cool ships coasting over the flank of an enormous cruiser/destroyer, diving right into the heart of battle, the maw of chaos, because now it's time to stop teasing and get this thing done.

Anyway, yeah...

Star Wars has two great openings. I'll agree with that. Always two there are.

And the prequels have two of their own, depending on if you jump in with the "start" (TPM), or the "end" (ROTS). 

Because, as Pyro has pointed out, the opening to ROTS kind of feels like you're being taken into the living picture for the first time, with the Jedi ships penetrating the membrane as they break through the shield of the Star Destroyer they "jump" into battle from. The opening shot is so fluid. It's like a love letter to the whole series.

And both these prequel openings are homaged in the crawl to Episode IX. Because each of those "beginnings"/"endings" gets a quotation there. You get "revenge" displayed in upper-case in the first paragraph, and then there's the term "the phantom Emperor" in the last one. Pyro should also take that as confirmation of his suggested RETRO ORDER.
 


You might be onto something.

Han vs. Jar Jar?

Vader vs. Padme?

The Millennium Falcon vs. sleek-and-unnamed royal chrome transports?

A harsh desert world vs. an idyllic garden paradise?

Cantinas and carbon freezing chambers vs. sparkling palaces, lakes, and opera houses?

A gaping senate rotunda vs. a mechanical moon that blows up dissenting planets with the flip of a switch?

A lot of fans (at least, it seems, until recently) have struggled to see Star Wars as a spacious mythic series: as space opera. They barely even get the "opera" part. They are obsessed with the notion that Star Wars is some John Wayne western with a lick of Flash Gordon paint. Yeah, you can have cool, charming, mind-expanding things, but don't get too out there. Such arid attitudes to the series were perhaps best encapsulated by this semi-famous "Dear JJ Abrams" video originally released pre-TFA:

  

This article, while a little tongue-in-cheek (though still making serious points), puts it the following way:

www.villagevoice.com/1999/06/08/the-nelly-menace/


I think there is this distrust/dislike that Lucas made the prequels too lame, too silly, too gooey, too feminine, and too "arty" for these to be an authentic expression/expansion of this angular, controlled, and tough universe that some fell in love with. It was a shock to the system. It's one reason people worship TESB so much. It's the episode where Vader is cruel and harsh to subordinates, multiple times, dispensing an array of dark puns in the process. The one where he is essentially shown as a wraith. A cold enforcer. A phallic pimp. And it also has a bounty hunter. Even when the cocky smuggler falls in love, he has to retain an air of cool restraint in the face of death and separation from his lover. And he's fished out of the soup with a giant claw as destroyed-being Anakin, in his cold-robot incarnation, calmly watches and leers over. Of the originals, TESB is arguably the one where the reach of the Empire seems -- despite the loss of the space-tit Death Star -- overwhelming and insuperable.

The irony, of course, is that things are very tough in the prequels: dire events, sad happenings, a rueful air. No-one ever said Shakespeare was wimpy. Tragedies are meant to hurt. But even there, you have this vague, thinly-stated, tacit objection to The Bard from some. Shakespeare? Ludicrously out-of-touch dialogue from some Elizabethan poof. That stuff is only for girls or effeminate men. Similarly, this great divide between the Lucas trilogies remains. Lucas went soft after having kids, some even said. Oh, how cute. Anakin is a nine-year-old mop-haired kid who loves his mom.

So were the prequels simply too bourgeois, too metropolitan, too "New York", and not enough Rocky Mountains, camping in the wild, and Texan rodeo for them? Because, let's face it, with Jar Jar, Lucas went a little ghey. And Lucas' aside that "Jar Jar is the key to all this" is now much-lampooned. Sometimes, I think, you have to wonder...

Teal and orange.

I can hear Ingram dying inside from here.