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Post by Cryogenic on Jan 14, 2020 3:13:16 GMT
Nonetheless, there is something uncomfortable about how she tells him to "stop that" (twice) and he ignores it (twice), and continues on although his advances have been firmly rejected (twice). It comes uncomfortably close to the behavior of a sexual predator, That's really reaching. Honestly, talk of any sort of sexual predatory behaviour in these movies is reaching. To classify Han's behaviour as sexual predatory, one would need to ignore all the context and build up that led to that scene. This isn't meant to be an ambush, but I'm curious: What do you make of the whole Reylo thing in the ST? Or do you -- as it were -- not make anything of it? Asking because of what you said above. By "these movies", I would assume you are referring to the Lucas ones, but there are a lot of fans up in arms about the whole concept of Reylo and how "sick" and "wrong" it allegedly is, so I'd be interested to hear your take on that. |
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Post by Alexrd on Jan 14, 2020 11:06:04 GMT
This isn't meant to be an ambush, but I'm curious: What do you make of the whole Reylo thing in the ST? Or do you -- as it were -- not make anything of it? Asking because of what you said above. By "these movies", I would assume you are referring to the Lucas ones, but there are a lot of fans up in arms about the whole concept of Reylo and how "sick" and "wrong" it allegedly is, so I'd be interested to hear your take on that. Yeah, I meant the Lucas ones. As for Reylo, you mean the relationship between the two characters, or the fandom thing? The latter I would classify that way, sure. If I were to criticize the character's relationship (if one can even call it a relationship), that would not be my criticism. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Jan 14, 2020 19:51:37 GMT
This isn't meant to be an ambush, but I'm curious: What do you make of the whole Reylo thing in the ST? Or do you -- as it were -- not make anything of it? Asking because of what you said above. By "these movies", I would assume you are referring to the Lucas ones, but there are a lot of fans up in arms about the whole concept of Reylo and how "sick" and "wrong" it allegedly is, so I'd be interested to hear your take on that. Yeah, I meant the Lucas ones. As for Reylo, you mean the relationship between the two characters, or the fandom thing? The latter I would classify that way, sure. If I were to criticize the character's relationship (if one can even call it a relationship), that would not be my criticism. Thanks for clarifying. In my case, in answer to your question, I primarily meant the former. I find Reylo material fascinating; at least, based on the few blogs (Tumblr pages) I've visited. Some interesting essays and some absolutely gorgeous artwork. But there are people on certain web forums, let's say, that find even the way Rey and Kylo's connection in the films is presented to be unfortunate, at best, or revolting, at worst. I guess I go with Ingram's descriptor: they have a "Gothic" connection. I'm not sure why this is automatically bad to some people, but some have chosen to have very negative reactions to the ST on this level. Can't help finding it a bit hilarious in light of the fact that some of these people alternately think Disney is "woke" and "anti-woke" based on their mood. And, of course, they operate with a blatant and pathological double standard: "their" criticisms of the Rey-Kylo connection are fine and moral, while "your" criticisms (e.g., suggesting that Rey starts and possibly ends the trilogy as a "Mary Sue") are blatantly misogynistic and wrong. I love how these intolerant ideologues first embraced the ST, when it was just TFA, but went off the whole thing quickly after TLJ. Very amusing and satisfying to me. But I guess that's another thread... |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jan 14, 2020 20:37:35 GMT
This isn't meant to be an ambush, but I'm curious: What do you make of the whole Reylo thing in the ST? Or do you -- as it were -- not make anything of it? Asking because of what you said above. By "these movies", I would assume you are referring to the Lucas ones, but there are a lot of fans up in arms about the whole concept of Reylo and how "sick" and "wrong" it allegedly is, so I'd be interested to hear your take on that. Yeah, I meant the Lucas ones. As for Reylo, you mean the relationship between the two characters, or the fandom thing? The latter I would classify that way, sure. If I were to criticize the character's relationship (if one can even call it a relationship), that would not be my criticism. wh.. Eh.. *head explodes* I'm not sure if you've seen any of the movies, but if you watched TLJ the whole way through, I'm afraid you may have missed the movie entirely. Even if you disagree with the direction of the story (which is what it sounds like you're trying to say), it's a major slight to the actors and the talent behind them. And it just doesn't jive with reality, even the fictional one being depicted onscreen. |
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Post by eljedicolombiano on Jan 18, 2020 1:09:18 GMT
The problem with Reylo is that it's simply never well developed to begin with- the motivations surrounding the two characters is vague at best, and we are left with what's essentially a young adult romance inserted into the story, as if LFL was deliberately courting that crowd. Not to mention that the way things were set up in TFA- hinting at Rey and Finn becoming an item in the next movie, only to drop that to follow the Reylo crowd; essentially repeats the message that "good guys get friend-zoned" and the bad boy ends up with the girl, and that is such a trite and annoying cliche, I feel that Star Wars should be above that kind of message.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jan 18, 2020 1:24:56 GMT
... essentially repeats the message that "good guys get friend-zoned" and the bad boy ends up with the girl, and that is such a trite and annoying cliche, I feel that Star Wars should be above that kind of message. Even if it's true? |
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Post by Pyrogenic on Jan 18, 2020 2:00:01 GMT
"Reylo"
- Everybody
"Kylo Rey"
- Pyrogenic
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Post by Pyrogenic on Jan 18, 2020 2:47:37 GMT
Hyperlink cinema...
That sound...
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Post by Cryogenic on Jan 18, 2020 4:09:55 GMT
"Reylo" - Everybody "Kylo Rey" - Pyrogenic <3 <3 <3 Hyperlink cinema... That sound... "These strange things happen all the time." Anyway, in a much more mundane observation, that first Rey-Kylo/Kylo-Rey scene (as above) is the epitome of Star Wars. That Flash Gordon-y blaster sound has never been used to shoot someone in such a personal, kinky, haphazard-yet-purposeful, weirdly aloof, Gothic, erotic, and epically Kubrickian way before. So many layers to that whole sequence; even just that one connection-node (pleonasm?) within it. Yet it's the funk and grime of it still being Star Wars, amidst all of that, that makes it, well... Star Wars. OMG, Rian Johnson. What did you do? And yeah, the little "ding" sound... Hmm! Dangerous and disturbing, and tricky and twerking, this cinematic puzzle is. |
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Post by Ingram on Jan 18, 2020 4:16:55 GMT
The problem with Reylo is that it's simply never well developed to begin with- the motivations surrounding the two characters is vague at best, and we are left with what's essentially a young adult romance inserted into the story, as if LFL was deliberately courting that crowd. Not to mention that the way things were set up in TFA- hinting at Rey and Finn becoming an item in the next movie, only to drop that to follow the Reylo crowd; essentially repeats the message that "good guys get friend-zoned" and the bad boy ends up with the girl, and that is such a trite and annoying cliche, I feel that Star Wars should be above that kind of message. Han, Anakin and Kylo versus Luke, Obi-Wan and Finn. Hell, even Palpatine by final logic got it on with...somebody. The two anomalies in this equation would be Poe, who's shot down last minute, and Rose, the one girl in Star Wars to get "friend-zoned", or near enough. I might be thinking too much into this. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Jan 18, 2020 4:34:39 GMT
The problem with Reylo is that it's simply never well developed to begin with- the motivations surrounding the two characters is vague at best, and we are left with what's essentially a young adult romance inserted into the story, as if LFL was deliberately courting that crowd. Not to mention that the way things were set up in TFA- hinting at Rey and Finn becoming an item in the next movie, only to drop that to follow the Reylo crowd; essentially repeats the message that "good guys get friend-zoned" and the bad boy ends up with the girl, and that is such a trite and annoying cliche, I feel that Star Wars should be above that kind of message. Han, Anakin and Kylo versus Luke, Obi-Wan and Finn. LOL -- Losers, all. Artificial insemination? "The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities..." Quite literally, by Leia... after holding her hand... Rose shouldn't have tasered a black fella. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jan 18, 2020 17:52:49 GMT
... essentially repeats the message that "good guys get friend-zoned" and the bad boy ends up with the girl, and that is such a trite and annoying cliche, I feel that Star Wars should be above that kind of message. Even if it's true?
It's also true that males tend to be physically stronger than females, and yada, yada, yada - inconvenient facts of life, you catch the drift.
Yet the sequel trilogy sets out immediately to upend this with a female Jedi at the forefront. I'm not saying it was a bad decision (not making her Luke's daughter certainly was - would have saved us all the constant "is she, isn't she" irritating mystery box crap), but it does show that your argument of following reality is flawed. Star Wars isn't always about what's real - it's a fairytale where lots of wonderful things can happen. A female protagonist, on paper, was a great idea... but that's before Kennedy and Abrams drove the car off the cliff, sadly.
I think the sequel trilogy perpetuates an abusive relationship. The kiss in TROS was hideous. I've read all about women who've fallen in love with members of an occupying force - WW2 history shows plenty of it with Nazi officers and Imperial Japan - but I do not need to see it on screen in Star Wars. Kylo Ren is essentially Darth Vader of the Original Trilogy, but without the breathing apparatus, and just because you're a member of the opposite sex and have pity for him, doesn't mean you then also have to fall head over heels for him. For me, that kind of dumbing down of women is what truly leans in the direction of misogyny.
I realise I'll never be able to understand what might make male fascist leaders attractive to women, but I don't think you need to be a Huffington Post or a Buzzfeed reader to understand it shouldn't be in Star Wars. It's common sense. Military strongmen are not to same as your more harmless bad boy (aka chad) down the street, and that difference needs to be understood.
And Abrams then thinks he can earn feminists points for that "Tell her yourself" trite Rey bellows at a sincere Lando, who just wanted his regards passed on to Leia? It's laughable, it absolutely is.
Alexrd is correct: the "Reylos" are weird. |
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