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Post by tonyg on Mar 17, 2017 23:32:11 GMT
I think part of my problem with TESB ( I mean that I like it less than the usual if I can say so)is this broken connection between the male and the femalе approach and it is a bit paradoxical as TESB is the Episode of OT with love story in it. While is it not the epic love story of Aakin and Padme, is still a lovе story (or at least, its beginning) but even in it the male and the female are alienated to a degree as they fight for domination.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Mar 25, 2017 17:43:35 GMT
Very true. Though it makes some sense from a certain point of view. The Male and Female had been estranged from each other for so long at that point - they've each been pummeled by the Empire without the support of the other for so long, the trust has atrophied.
Also, I feel it is appropriate for Leia's character, is it not? She and Padme both hold their cards close, and are not afraid to set boundaries ("Don't look at me like that, it makes me uncomfortable"). Similar constiutions, but Leia had to adapt to the corrupt, hostile Empire in which she has been surrounded by overt corruption and oppression. She had to adopt a combative front to assert her place in the galaxy. Padme could afford to be more demure and possess a more neutral posture. Also Anakin was not aggressive towards her like Han was to Leia. Once she set her boundaries, there were no aggressions, only diplomacies.
It's almost as if Han represents the culture of the Empiral-infuenced galaxy at that time. Han, like Anakin, the Male, had become somewhat corrupted. And Leia represents the the good left in the human heart - it had to form an armed resistance. Then the two proceed with their dance of striking and defending. Once war had broken the galaxy, it manifested in the Male/Female dynamic.
Their's was also a popular style of movie romance of the time. Following on the heels of the Women's Liberation movement. It was a product of it's time, which is unusual for SW, so perhaps I'm assuming incorrectly here. Anakin & Padme's was obviously very far removed from modern romance styles, which we know has led to negative fan reactions. I mean, Han & Leia's still feels appropriate and consistent with their characters, I just wonder how much of that was coincidence and how much was tailoring to current trends.
So, what I would say is; the broken connection and alienation is the point. It's the tragedy, which we witness being slowly reversed, through them. And Luke while he's simultaneously becoming the vessel through which the Light of the Force returns to the galaxy. As cringe-worthy as it can be seen, ultimately, despite this, I feel, during this time of war, it is fitting in it's own beat-poetic way. Yes, it's the Episode of the OT with the love story, but it's also the "dark one".
Above all though, my final answer is always; take in the music. There is a sweet tenderness to their music during certain scenes that underscores the true core underneath their facades. Wonderfully contrasting, in it's fleeting moments, the thunderously amped up, bombastic, Imperial March themes taking up so much of the musical landscape of the film. And in the end, just like her mother, Leia confesses her feelings only when a moment comes when she feels she may not see him again.
The music letting us in on their secret inner tenderness for each other prepares us for their non-aggressive moments, which provide relief from and contrast to the destructive conflict erupting in the galaxy at the time. "Join me, and we can end this destructive conflict."
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Post by tonyg on Mar 25, 2017 23:50:20 GMT
The big problem for me is how to say it, Han-Lea story itself. If we speak in terms of the Empire, Lea is invaded and I don't like that. Han surrounds her in a very unpleasant way. 'Say you like me' , this is the leitmotif of his 'courtship'. I know it fits in the genre much more than Padme-Anakin story and that's why Han-Leia story looks comfortable to watch for so much fans, but for me is uncomfortable. First Leia-Han kiss is cringe-worthy because he actually gives her no choice but to accept it. Just compare this to the sand scene in AOTC that ends with 'I'm sorry'. Yes, I completely agree with you that those old fashioned , chivalry times are gone in TESB and also that Ha acts like , well, smuggler and he is such, I just think that this game of domination shows exactly how everything is separated and alienated in Empire's time but this kind of love story cannot fix it. (it has nothing to do with Han's capture, I'm talking about the relation between Han and Leia). Paradoxically (at first sight) what fixes the things is Leia-Luke relationship. I don't mean anything Freudian here, just they are connected to the chosen one. Exactly their connection will fix the world (one more reference to Anakin-Leia relationship, actually). And speaking of that, maybe the chivalry is gone but in the new generation there is one knight of the Lake country, in fact, and this is Luke. Luke is the one who is saving or trying to save Leia, always.
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Post by tonyg on Mar 25, 2017 23:57:06 GMT
Speaking about music, my favorite piece of OT is the March of the Empire and I always liked it more than the main theme. The Empire has no fashion (as Lucas said) but at least taste for good music. But if we speak seriously, yes I agree that the tenderness is the key. I miss it in this part of the story. I know that the times of the Empire are rough and even Leia no matter that she is princess, should look the less tenderly possible to survive ( I completely understand that) still I miss the tenderness of Shmi and Padme in OT. TO a degree, aunt Beru had it, but she appeared for a very short time in the movies.
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Post by maychild on Jan 13, 2020 21:42:37 GMT
The big problem for me is how to say it, Han-Lea story itself. If we speak in terms of the Empire, Lea is invaded and I don't like that. Han surrounds her in a very unpleasant way. 'Say you like me' , this is the leitmotif of his 'courtship'. I know it fits in the genre much more than Padme-Anakin story and that's why Han-Leia story looks comfortable to watch for so much fans, but for me is uncomfortable. First Leia-Han kiss is cringe-worthy because he actually gives her no choice but to accept it. Just compare this to the sand scene in AOTC that ends with 'I'm sorry'. Yes, I completely agree with you that those old fashioned , chivalry times are gone in TESB and also that Ha acts like , well, smuggler and he is such, I just think that this game of domination shows exactly how everything is separated and alienated in Empire's time but this kind of love story cannot fix it. (it has nothing to do with Han's capture, I'm talking about the relation between Han and Leia). Paradoxically (at first sight) what fixes the things is Leia-Luke relationship. I don't mean anything Freudian here, just they are connected to the chosen one. Exactly their connection will fix the world (one more reference to Anakin-Leia relationship, actually). And speaking of that, maybe the chivalry is gone but in the new generation there is one knight of the Lake country, in fact, and this is Luke. Luke is the one who is saving or trying to save Leia, always. Although I am a Han/Leia fan, I can see your point. There is a double standard in the way people accept the H/L romance and how they accuse Anakin of being a "stalker." I posted about this on Naboo News too. I will take a small exception to you saying that Han forces Leia to accept his kiss. Some people (actually, a surprising number of people) have pointed out that Han uses his height to back Leia into a corner, or at least, against the wall, and I think there's some truth to that. However, Leia isn't completely helpless. She could have slapped him, or screamed, or kneed him in an inconvenient spot. Instead, she lets him kiss her, and kisses him back. Pretty eagerly too. When they're interrupted by Threepio, she flees instead of staying put. Nonetheless, there is something uncomfortable about how she tells him to "stop that" (twice) and he ignores it (twice), and continues on although his advances have been firmly rejected (twice). It comes uncomfortably close to the behavior of a sexual predator, although here I'd point out that in one of the first scripts for ESB -- I think it's the one written by Leigh Brackett, although I don't know for sure -- Han does come across much more strongly as a sexual predator. In one scene, Leia is sitting alone in a cabin on the Falcon, Han strides in, pushes her down on the bunk, and starts kissing her. That's much more disturbing, and I'm glad it didn't make it into the final film. But back to A/P. It chaps my behind considerably when people say Anakin is a stalker. Do they know how insulting they're being to real victims of stalking? OK, Anakin does stare at Padme intensely a time or two, and hovers perhaps a little too close to her (though I'd point out he has been assigned to guard her), but after she tells him that they cannot be together during the fireplace scene, what does he do? He backs off ENTIRELY. He keeps his eyes, and his hands (save for him helping her off a transport on Tatooine), completely to himself -- until SHE declares her love for HIM. They then kiss, but it's something SHE initiates, if I recall correctly. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound like any stalker I've ever heard of.
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Post by Alexrd on Jan 13, 2020 22:11:54 GMT
Nonetheless, there is something uncomfortable about how she tells him to "stop that" (twice) and he ignores it (twice), and continues on although his advances have been firmly rejected (twice). It comes uncomfortably close to the behavior of a sexual predator, That's really reaching. Honestly, talk of any sort of sexual predatory behaviour in these movies is reaching. To classify Han's behaviour as sexual predatory, one would need to ignore all the context and build up that led to that scene.
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Post by maychild on Jan 13, 2020 22:59:52 GMT
Nonetheless, there is something uncomfortable about how she tells him to "stop that" (twice) and he ignores it (twice), and continues on although his advances have been firmly rejected (twice). It comes uncomfortably close to the behavior of a sexual predator, That's really reaching. Honestly, talk of any sort of sexual predatory behaviour in these movies is reaching. To classify Han's behaviour as sexual predatory, one would need to ignore all the context and build up that led to that scene. I didn't say it was sexually predatory, I said it comes uncomfortably close to it. Maybe that's a reach too, but consider that we're talking about a SW movie, where a sexually tinged scene is a bigger deal than it would be in your average Hollywood movie.
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Post by Ingram on Jan 14, 2020 7:03:45 GMT
I wouldn't observe any of the courtship interludes from Star Wars, PT (Victorian), OT (Hawksian) nor ST (Gothic), as being "predatory". Such is one of those terms that's lost too much of its meaning now days, having been fanatically inflated and therein reduced to a stigmatic standard (don't even get me started on the term "rapey" ...ugh). Han with Leia for instance is certainly antagonistic, yes, but not predatory. The latter verdict merely extrapolates a few vague, interchangeable characteristics while dismissing the context of the whole. It's projection. Human intimacy has not the luxury of pamphlet guideline simplicity but, rather, makes for an inherently complex and challenging thing. People have their hangups, even Star Wars characters; they wouldn't be characters if they didn't. The thematic setup at work here is that Leia -- brassy, fast-talking, princess freedom-fighter of the Rebellion -- resides emotionally behind a hard exterior. Han provokes her, imposes himself upon her at times, by virtue of the only language he knows, that of a scoundrel-romantic, but also in attempt to break through said exterior. Yet such constitutes only an identity breach, not an ethical one: Leia's position is not being exploited nor her integrity compromised. She is depicted in slight as longing for Han while stuck fast in her armor. Han's game is finding the chink.
All of this could be dismissed as but the rationalization of any predator. But only in theory. What we are afforded here is the full story view, accounting for both sides. And nowhere do I for one think the premise of predation applies.
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Post by tonyg on Jan 15, 2020 21:49:38 GMT
The big problem for me is how to say it, Han-Lea story itself. If we speak in terms of the Empire, Lea is invaded and I don't like that. Han surrounds her in a very unpleasant way. 'Say you like me' , this is the leitmotif of his 'courtship'. I know it fits in the genre much more than Padme-Anakin story and that's why Han-Leia story looks comfortable to watch for so much fans, but for me is uncomfortable. First Leia-Han kiss is cringe-worthy because he actually gives her no choice but to accept it. Just compare this to the sand scene in AOTC that ends with 'I'm sorry'. Yes, I completely agree with you that those old fashioned , chivalry times are gone in TESB and also that Ha acts like , well, smuggler and he is such, I just think that this game of domination shows exactly how everything is separated and alienated in Empire's time but this kind of love story cannot fix it. (it has nothing to do with Han's capture, I'm talking about the relation between Han and Leia). Paradoxically (at first sight) what fixes the things is Leia-Luke relationship. I don't mean anything Freudian here, just they are connected to the chosen one. Exactly their connection will fix the world (one more reference to Anakin-Leia relationship, actually). And speaking of that, maybe the chivalry is gone but in the new generation there is one knight of the Lake country, in fact, and this is Luke. Luke is the one who is saving or trying to save Leia, always. Although I am a Han/Leia fan, I can see your point. There is a double standard in the way people accept the H/L romance and how they accuse Anakin of being a "stalker." I posted about this on Naboo News too. I will take a small exception to you saying that Han forces Leia to accept his kiss. Some people (actually, a surprising number of people) have pointed out that Han uses his height to back Leia into a corner, or at least, against the wall, and I think there's some truth to that. However, Leia isn't completely helpless. She could have slapped him, or screamed, or kneed him in an inconvenient spot. Instead, she lets him kiss her, and kisses him back. Pretty eagerly too. When they're interrupted by Threepio, she flees instead of staying put. Nonetheless, there is something uncomfortable about how she tells him to "stop that" (twice) and he ignores it (twice), and continues on although his advances have been firmly rejected (twice). It comes uncomfortably close to the behavior of a sexual predator, although here I'd point out that in one of the first scripts for ESB -- I think it's the one written by Leigh Brackett, although I don't know for sure -- Han does come across much more strongly as a sexual predator. In one scene, Leia is sitting alone in a cabin on the Falcon, Han strides in, pushes her down on the bunk, and starts kissing her. That's much more disturbing, and I'm glad it didn't make it into the final film. But back to A/P. It chaps my behind considerably when people say Anakin is a stalker. Do they know how insulting they're being to real victims of stalking? OK, Anakin does stare at Padme intensely a time or two, and hovers perhaps a little too close to her (though I'd point out he has been assigned to guard her), but after she tells him that they cannot be together during the fireplace scene, what does he do? He backs off ENTIRELY. He keeps his eyes, and his hands (save for him helping her off a transport on Tatooine), completely to himself -- until SHE declares her love for HIM. They then kiss, but it's something SHE initiates, if I recall correctly. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound like any stalker I've ever heard of. You are right about Anakin, the only moment when he acts boldy with Padme is when he inists how he is grown up during their conversation when she was packing her things. I think here the challenge is that Anakin is trying to show to Padme that he is not the small boy of Tattoine anymore, that why he rises against her. but that is cmpletelly different situation also he again makes a step back when he is asked to. By the way, welcome to the forum!
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Post by maychild on Jan 17, 2020 5:16:09 GMT
Although I am a Han/Leia fan, I can see your point. There is a double standard in the way people accept the H/L romance and how they accuse Anakin of being a "stalker." I posted about this on Naboo News too. I will take a small exception to you saying that Han forces Leia to accept his kiss. Some people (actually, a surprising number of people) have pointed out that Han uses his height to back Leia into a corner, or at least, against the wall, and I think there's some truth to that. However, Leia isn't completely helpless. She could have slapped him, or screamed, or kneed him in an inconvenient spot. Instead, she lets him kiss her, and kisses him back. Pretty eagerly too. When they're interrupted by Threepio, she flees instead of staying put. Nonetheless, there is something uncomfortable about how she tells him to "stop that" (twice) and he ignores it (twice), and continues on although his advances have been firmly rejected (twice). It comes uncomfortably close to the behavior of a sexual predator, although here I'd point out that in one of the first scripts for ESB -- I think it's the one written by Leigh Brackett, although I don't know for sure -- Han does come across much more strongly as a sexual predator. In one scene, Leia is sitting alone in a cabin on the Falcon, Han strides in, pushes her down on the bunk, and starts kissing her. That's much more disturbing, and I'm glad it didn't make it into the final film. But back to A/P. It chaps my behind considerably when people say Anakin is a stalker. Do they know how insulting they're being to real victims of stalking? OK, Anakin does stare at Padme intensely a time or two, and hovers perhaps a little too close to her (though I'd point out he has been assigned to guard her), but after she tells him that they cannot be together during the fireplace scene, what does he do? He backs off ENTIRELY. He keeps his eyes, and his hands (save for him helping her off a transport on Tatooine), completely to himself -- until SHE declares her love for HIM. They then kiss, but it's something SHE initiates, if I recall correctly. Maybe it's just me, but that doesn't sound like any stalker I've ever heard of. You are right about Anakin, the only moment when he acts boldy with Padme is when he inists how he is grown up during their conversation when she was packing her things. I think here the challenge is that Anakin is trying to show to Padme that he is not the small boy of Tattoine anymore, that why he rises against her. but that is cmpletelly different situation also he again makes a step back when he is asked to. By the way, welcome to the forum! Thanks!
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Post by Subtext Mining on Mar 22, 2021 13:50:30 GMT
As hard as it might be to defend Han grabbing Leia's wrist, ignoring her words and backing her into a corner, I think there's another element to add to what's already been eloquently said here.
What do Padmé's death and Han's kiss with Leia have in common?
For one, Padmé died a fairy tale death. And likewise, Han & Leia's romance is that of a war opera fairy tale.
But perhaps more specifically, they're as fairy tale as you can get. So much so that they're both examples of what not to do in the real world.
Just as dying of sadness after birthing your children because your husband turned evil (yes, there's more to it than that) is not something to be recommended in real life, neither is ignoring a woman's request to stop.
Yeah, there's love in Star Wars, but it's a very unique kind. Rich in metaphor and laced with real-world taboo. Lucas isn't afraid to also incorporate the dangerous sides of love. And not only that, use them as a means to compliment the virtues.
Besides dying alongside one's true love when the love has been lost, what's more fairy tale than love being cast asleep which can only be awoken by a lover's kiss? Han, the scoundrel with the heart of gold, could be the only one to find the way to smuggle the element of feminine love back into the Galaxy.
(As a footnote, I also think there's something to be said about SW being a male fantasy saga).
But yes, let's not forget Luke's role here either. I'd say, while Han awakens the Eros of Leia's feminine energy, Luke awakens the Sophia or Wisdom, so to speak. And when the two of them reconnect it connects them back to their mother and their father, and so on.
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Post by thephantomcalamari on Mar 22, 2021 22:01:55 GMT
I see Han and Leia's romance as representing the dialectic between individualism (Han) and collectivism (Leia).
Han has to learn how to make individual sacrifices for the good of the collective, while Leia has to learn how to differentiate herself from the collective so she can flourish as an individual. Their union represents a sustainable synthesis of the two seemingly conflicting values, reflected outward in the new society they help bring forth.
Their successful relationship is in a way a redemption of Anakin and Padme's failed relationship, which represented the same conflict but could not achieve true synthesis, which led to the downfall of their society.
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Post by Cryogenic on Mar 23, 2021 14:01:53 GMT
I see Han and Leia's romance as representing the dialectic between individualism (Han) and collectivism (Leia). Han has to learn how to make individual sacrifices for the good of the collective, while Leia has to learn how to differentiate herself from the collective so she can flourish as an individual. Their union represents a sustainable synthesis of the two seemingly conflicting values, reflected outward in the new society they help bring forth. Their successful relationship is in a way a redemption of Anakin and Padme's failed relationship, which represented the same conflict but could not achieve true synthesis, which led to the downfall of their society. Great reading! I love it. I've said before that Han is like a more "successful" version of Anakin: motivated by greed initially, but not overtaken by it. A rugged individual whose most precious possession is his ship, who learns to be a little less self-serving when he meets Luke and Leia (even the "old fossil" Obi-Wan has an impact on his outlook), the Skywalker twins. Thus their introduction into Han's orbit represents a kind of deflection/attenuation of selfishness and "I'm fine the way I am" thinking in the galaxy. In TESB, Han has become a valuable leader/team-player, a man prepared to risk his own life for the well-being of another, a person capable of falling in love (and not greedily trying to hold onto that love), and inevitably: a mature individual who must face his own past. All things that Anakin demonstrated in his own right, but tragically threw away out of fear, consumed -- in the end -- by his own suffering, his own suspicions and frustrations, all congealed into an insatiable lust for power. How appropriate that the two characters meet once, and only once, in the "middle" of the Original Trilogy, when Han reacts on impulse and tries shooting Vader on Bespin, in protection of those whom he loves. A very Anakin moment. They are so alike -- yet there is this unspeakable chasm between them. The last time Anakin was at a dinner table was when he was wooing Padme on Naboo. How much has changed! Perhaps it isn't surprising that Vader takes a rather perverse interest in Han being tortured with heat and lowered into the carbon freezing chamber. "He will not be permanently damaged." Because Anakin paid a high price for what he rationalised was merely his way of "protecting" his wife: the mother of Han's paramour. Han and Leia essentially get to have their day in ROTJ, because they went to heaven and found hell. "A Sith here?" And they came through it. "Out the other side", you might say -- like Anakin when he races through the tunnel in the Boonta Eve podrace and emerges through a wall of flame. As the Millennium Falcon does when the second Death Star is incinerating itself. Twinned immolation events in twinned trilogies. Hate/doom ended, love/hope reborn.
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Post by tonyg on Apr 9, 2021 6:48:02 GMT
I see Han and Leia's romance as representing the dialectic between individualism (Han) and collectivism (Leia). Han has to learn how to make individual sacrifices for the good of the collective, while Leia has to learn how to differentiate herself from the collective so she can flourish as an individual. Their union represents a sustainable synthesis of the two seemingly conflicting values, reflected outward in the new society they help bring forth. Their successful relationship is in a way a redemption of Anakin and Padme's failed relationship, which represented the same conflict but could not achieve true synthesis, which led to the downfall of their society. As final result -if I can say so-, Leia-Han relationship succeeds but because both of them change a little. Or more precisely said, Han changes a lot and Leia not so much,e except that she decided to be open to her personal feelings. The real connection between them begins when Han decided to make a step back and let Leia be with the one she had chosen to (according to Han). This is something that Han the smuggler would never do. So for me this is where their love truly begins. I still fail to understand how exactly Leia fell in love with Han of ep.5. yes she is attracted to him, but that is not enough especially for Leia who is ready to suppress her feelings in the name of the common good. I still think that the scene 'I love you/I know' exists to create dramatic momentum in TESB regarding Han potential death in the carbonite, but it is in complete contradiction with Leia confused behavior about Luke after this scene (I mean still in TESB, not to to mention Ep.6) if she is not sure about her feelings, well, Leia is not the type who will say words like 'I love you' just like that. For the record, I wouldn't consider Anakin-Padme relationship as failed. The one who failed is Anakin and he failed so deep that he had lost all, including the meaning of his life, Padme, so this is his punishment, the price he paid. Is not that the relationship itself wouldn't work of he didn't fail. The relationship indeed was doomed for Anakin actions and choices that's why in the end he looses it all.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Apr 9, 2021 20:51:47 GMT
Which scene of confused behavior about Luke are you referring to?
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Post by Cryogenic on Apr 9, 2021 22:41:56 GMT
Which scene of confused behavior about Luke are you referring to? I'm guessing Tony is referring to Leia appearing to have unresolved feelings toward Luke until the bridge conversation ("Do you remember your mother? Your real mother?") in Episode VI. But this, for me, doesn't invalidate Leia blurting out that she loves Han when he's about to be frozen. In fact, it explains why Han rather stoically says, "I know". Han can't be sure that Leia truly loves him at this point in their story, and he's trying to spare her dignity (in addition to having insecurities of his own) by not echoing her love pledge unconditionally -- not on Bespin, not yet. The Force is strong with them, but they are not a couple yet. In Episode VI, we see Han's fears and doubts rising to petulant anger when he feels excluded by Leia in favour of Luke: "Could you tell Luke? Is that who you could tell?" This tension is only resolved after Han says he is prepared to step aside if Leia loves Luke, but then he hears something totally unexpected when Leia tells him, "It's not like that at all. He's my brother." All of a sudden, moments after the Death Star has been destroyed and fear and hate have been conquered and the galaxy freed, Han and Luke are no longer love rivals, and this is confirmed when Luke returns to Endor for the Ewok celebration and they embrace one another -- as if for the first time -- as true brothers and equals.
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Post by tonyg on Apr 10, 2021 20:37:11 GMT
Which scene of confused behavior about Luke are you referring to? For me is a thread in the whole movie (Ep.6) till the moment in the Ewok bridge, of course: when Leia understood what is the source of these confused feelings. But even in the end of TESB there are such allusions. In ROTJ Leia behave as her feelings to Luke are stronger than to an ordinary friend. She is too overjoyed to see him come back to the base after Dagoba and also she immediately notices that something has changed in him. The same happens when they are in the Ewok village. Is like everyone else is fixed in the mission and she is fixed in what is happening to Luke (that why she followed him). Han doubts that there is more with Luke and Leia, while unmotivated, didn't emerge just like that and definitely not because of the conversation in the bridge. Yes, the supposed "triangle" between them in the end is solved in an unexpected way but is obvious that there are traces of such not because of some rivalry between Luke and Han (that paradoxically is not shown in ROTJ at all) but mostly because Leia tends to show that she cares for Luke much more than is expected. I know that this is deliberately made as Leia should feel the connection between her and Luke no matter that she doesn't know why there is such connection, but for me in a way this go against her declaration of love in the dramatic momentum of TESB (the latter came too early for various reasons).
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Post by Cryogenic on Apr 10, 2021 21:40:18 GMT
Han doubts that there is more with Luke and Leia, while unmotivated, didn't emerge just like that and definitely not because of the conversation in the bridge. It obviously didn't emerge just because of the bridge conversation. The bridge conversation merely showed his fear/jealousy reaching a crescendo or release point. Han's rivalry with Luke, and the mixed emotions stirred within Han because of it, are shown in two pivotal scenes in the preceding films. Note the change in tone between these two scenes. In particular, note how the long, heavy stare Han makes as Luke walks off on Echo Base is in total contrast to the final shot of Han in the Falcon cockpit in the earlier scene in ANH. A shadow has fallen between them by TESB (it is a "darker" film, after all), and that shadow is Leia, or Han's jealousy toward Luke (or Han's fear that Leia likes Luke more and that Luke is more suitable for her):
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Post by Subtext Mining on Feb 4, 2022 14:18:49 GMT
I'd known for a long while that the "I love you"/"I know" response was a last-minute ad-lib after many takes of the written version not landing right. Recently I learned the whole scene in the Cloud City apartment was reshot, reworked and also ad-libbed a bit, as Gary Kurtz says in this video, (which includes an outtake). So I guess I shouldn't be surprised to also learn the scene in the Falcon was also reworked and ad-libbed quite a bit too. As George mentions in this video, (which also includes an outtake). "I like the Han and Leia love scene in the Millenium Falcon. We didn't know how that was gonna work, and I think that had come off very well. And that's really due to, really, Carrie and Harrison who took that scene and actually subtly took it into the place that most people didn't expect us to go." - GLNow, I know the scene that's in the film was chosen to be in the film, but it's not like it was written that way with some ill-intentions in mind. Say what one will about this or that, but it's just the way that seems to work for these two particular characters in this particular situation.
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Post by hernalt on Feb 8, 2022 19:12:31 GMT
New to the forum. Ex-TFN. Han and Leia is a favorite topic.
I see no mentions of Gone With the Wind. I won't speak out of turn.
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