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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 25, 2022 3:22:02 GMT
Watching Episode IV now. Haven't felt this way since 2005. The beats are all just hitting so right. You have to realize that there are effectively 6 prequel movies now that all inform our impressions of the main characters in A New Hope. But the biggest change to the story, is that this time, Darth Vader is actually more afraid of Obi-Wan than you would have thought before. Also, the pacing differences in ANH don't really even stand out after a four hour Obi-Wan Kenobi special preceding it. This all may be incidental, but it's what we have, and it works surprisingly well. I do get the feeling that all the between trilogies projects are being given special care. The six part structure of Obi-Wan makes up for the handful of flaws it has.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 25, 2022 14:47:46 GMT
You're focusing on the negative. They *were* trying to please us.
Who're you referring to?
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 25, 2022 14:54:27 GMT
To all those people bitching about the lack of de-ageing, consider this, Obi-Wan promotion vs Episode III promotion: Great to see Hayden back on a late night show in the US. Yes, I know these programmes can be cringey at times, but like Celebration, is a sign that the mainstream are really appreciating him. You don't get to go on if you're nobody. His starpower is definitely on the rise now.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 25, 2022 15:32:00 GMT
You're focusing on the negative. They *were* trying to please us. Who're you referring to?
Me, most likely, and anyone else with strenuous complaints against the series. Also, please note stampid's play on Obi-Wan's line to Anakin in both sentences.  |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 25, 2022 18:08:19 GMT
Me, most likely, and anyone else with strenuous complaints against the series. Also, please note stampid's play on Obi-Wan's line to Anakin in both sentences.
Gotcha. I was worried for a while there that I might have gone too far in a few places.
"Please note" is such a thing I would say  |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 25, 2022 19:11:11 GMT
Quelle coincidence. Padmé and Anakin on two late night shows on the very same day.
As timeless as ever 
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 25, 2022 19:39:56 GMT
Hayden often wears bland clothes, but Natalie dresses to impress. A slave boy and a queen.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 25, 2022 20:22:05 GMT
This could probably go in our miscellaneous tidbits thread, but given the present flow of the discussion, I thought I'd post it here. Nice mood piece:
Title: Return to Naboo
Uploader: Conor Grennan
Date: 12 Sept 2021
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 25, 2022 20:43:00 GMT
Hayden often wears bland clothes, but Natalie dresses to impress. A slave boy and a queen.
Welll, he is literally a farm boy these days. I think he said the black is all for the series, all for the Vader parallels  Also, this:
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 25, 2022 22:33:21 GMT
This could probably go in our miscellaneous tidbits thread, but given the present flow of the discussion, I thought I'd post it here. Nice mood piece: Title: Return to Naboo Uploader: Conor Grennan Date: 12 Sept 2021
Same mood:
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 25, 2022 22:44:38 GMT
Ooooh. I like seeing a droid in that one.
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Post by Alexrd on Jun 25, 2022 22:50:08 GMT
I respect everyone's connection to the prequels in here, I really do. They're such amazing, rock-solid films. However, it does seem that fans are relatively easy to bilk if a thirty-second Qui-Gon cameo is enough to validate the entire series, just because they saved it till the end. I feel a touch of Alexrd coming on, but this series plainly swerved from getting into any aspect of Jedi mysticism whatsoever. At this point, maybe that's a good thing. Does anyone want Disney to further pretend to know or understand the mythology George created and established in order to inform the audience about it? But hey, if enough people ask for it, they might provide some Force gobbledygook. George Lucas: "We never see the ghost of Qui-Gon; he's not that accomplished. He's able to retain his personality, but he's not able to become a corporeal ghost." Disney: "Remember Qui-Gon? Want to see him again? Well, today is your lucky day, you can do just that by consuming our latest product exclusively on our streaming service. Yes, we know that old Lucas guy said he couldn't appear, but what does that guy know anyway? It's all made up. You like Qui-Gon, don't you? You want some Liam Neeson, don't you? We do too and we are here to give you just that. Tune in next time to see what more nonsense we can come up with." |
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Post by Somny on Jun 25, 2022 22:57:46 GMT
I respect everyone's connection to the prequels in here, I really do. They're such amazing, rock-solid films. However, it does seem that fans are relatively easy to bilk if a thirty-second Qui-Gon cameo is enough to validate the entire series, just because they saved it till the end. I feel a touch of Alexrd coming on, but this series plainly swerved from getting into any aspect of Jedi mysticism whatsoever. At this point, maybe that's a good thing. Does anyone want Disney to further pretend to know or understand the mythology George created and established in order to inform the audience about it? But hey, if enough people ask for it, they might provide some Force gobbledygook. George Lucas: "We never see the ghost of Qui-Gon; he's not that accomplished. He's able to retain his personality, but he's not able to become a corporeal ghost." Disney: "Remember Qui-Gon? Want to see him again? Well, today is your lucky day, you can do just that by consuming our latest product exclusively on our streaming service. Yes, we know that old Lucas guy said he couldn't appear, but what does that guy know anyway? It's all made up. You like Qui-Gon, don't you? You want some Liam Neeson, don't you? We do too and we are here to give you just that. Tune in next time to see what more nonsense we can come up with." Yeah, you could go the purist route... or you can see this mostly harmless choice as introducing youth audiences to one of the most important and philosophically venerable characters in the entire saga. When there's more spirit of Qui-Gon in the air (no pun intended), everyone wins. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 25, 2022 23:13:21 GMT
At this point, maybe that's a good thing. Does anyone want Disney to further pretend to know or understand the mythology George created and established in order to inform the audience about it? But hey, if enough people ask for it, they might provide some Force gobbledygook. George Lucas: "We never see the ghost of Qui-Gon; he's not that accomplished. He's able to retain his personality, but he's not able to become a corporeal ghost." Disney: "Remember Qui-Gon? Want to see him again? Well, today is your lucky day, you can do just that by consuming our latest product exclusively on our streaming service. Yes, we know that old Lucas guy said he couldn't appear, but what does that guy know anyway? It's all made up. You like Qui-Gon, don't you? You want some Liam Neeson, don't you? We do too and we are here to give you just that. Tune in next time to see what more nonsense we can come up with." Yeah, you could go the purist route... or you can see this mostly harmless choice as introducing youth audiences to one of the most important and philosophically venerable characters in the entire saga. When there's more spirit of Qui-Gon in the air (no pun intended), everyone wins. A respectable point, but what I was implying earlier is that Qui-Gon's appearance at the very end of the series is a bit of a sham. All Yoda could do was barely hear Qui-Gon during intense meditation, but somehow Obi-Wan, a character with a weaker connection to the Force than Yoda (this difference being what makes each of the characters compelling in their own right), is able to see him casually manifest on Tatooine as he lazily journeys to his new home. If they were really trying to introduce youth audiences to one of the most important and philosophically venerable characters in the Saga, they could have put a bit more effort into Obi-Wan's connection to him and had Qui-Gon speak some genuine Jedi wisdom earlier in the series. As it is, Qui-Gon's sudden, punctuation-mark appearance at the end is just another memberberry manipulation of audience sentiment: hollow, airy, reductive, trite, unearned, and unnecessary. |
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Post by Somny on Jun 25, 2022 23:43:39 GMT
Yeah, you could go the purist route... or you can see this mostly harmless choice as introducing youth audiences to one of the most important and philosophically venerable characters in the entire saga. When there's more spirit of Qui-Gon in the air (no pun intended), everyone wins. A respectable point, but what I was implying earlier is that Qui-Gon's appearance at the very end of the series is a bit of a sham. All Yoda could do was barely hear Qui-Gon during intense meditation, but somehow Obi-Wan, a character with a weaker connection to the Force than Yoda (this difference being what makes each of the characters compelling in their own right), is able to see him casually manifest on Tatooine as he lazily journeys to his new home. If they were really trying to introduce youth audiences to one of the most important and philosophically venerable characters in the Saga, they could have put a bit more effort into Obi-Wan's connection to him and had Qui-Gon speak some genuine Jedi wisdom earlier in the series. As it is, Qui-Gon's sudden, punctuation-mark appearance at the end is just another memberberry manipulation of audience sentiment: hollow, airy, reductive, trite, unearned, and unnecessary. Is it not reasonable to assume that Qui-Gon could manifest a more "corporeal" existence over time? I mean, how else could Obi-Wan manage it himself later on without some guiding template? And how do we know that Qui-Gon wasn't burning the midnight midichlorians on his own in the intervening time period to make it happen? And staunchly sticking by my generative consideration (I occasionally work as a substitute teacher IRL), I feel there's plenty of Qui-Gon's wisdom in TPM. His appearance in 'Obi-Wan Kenobi' may steer the younglings toward that original, nourishing oasis without a reliance on the series to duplicate or supplement it more substantially. In anecdotal support of this point, I've had at least one adult friend, a rabid OT fan, revisit the PT in the wake of 'The Mandalorian' and 'The Book of Boba Fett'; as a result, changing his tune almost diametrically toward the PT. So, cross-pollination, however superficial, can be a very real factor. But I generally agree that there's a baseline cynicism to many of these choices by Disney/LFL. I guess I'm just scraping to see a silver lining. EDIT: Shoot! In his cameo appearance, Qui-Gon implies having existed in ghost form for some time and that it was up to Obi-Wan to be able to actually see him. But still, some quality, Force-individuation time may have elapsed since Yoda's initial contact with Qui-Gon at the end of ROTS. I guess what I'm suggesting is that there's some leeway. The logic, however dodgy, isn't completely destroyed. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 26, 2022 0:03:00 GMT
Is it not reasonable to assume that Qui-Gon could manifest a more "corporeal" existence over time? I mean, how else could Obi-Wan manage it himself later on without some guiding template? And how do we know that Qui-Gon wasn't burning the midnight midichlorians on his own in the intervening time period to make it happen? Good questions. Perhaps Qui-Gon could flicker himself into a more corporeal form over time, but he seemingly does this at the end of the series, in the very last scene, having never even spoken to Obi-Wan before. It's just unearned and -- pun intended? -- out of the blue. That's exactly my point. It's already all in TPM and this show added nothing new in that regard. Qui-Gon just appears like a road sign indicating that a viewer should turn back and consult a different source for all their nutriment. The series may well get people excited about the PT, but I don't like that as a defence in and of itself. It turns the series into a glorified fan trailer. The series should have brought plenty of substance of its own. In my opinion, it did not. |
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Post by Somny on Jun 26, 2022 0:29:56 GMT
Good questions. Perhaps Qui-Gon could flicker himself into a more corporeal form over time, but he seemingly does this at the end of the series, in the very last scene, having never even spoken to Obi-Wan before. It's just unearned and -- pun intended? -- out of the blue. I suppose Qui-Gon's cameo operated much like Darth Maul's in 'Solo'? I can still recall the audible reaction to that reveal in the theater. There's an element of delightful surprise that tends to whet many fans' appetites. I don't completely discount myself among them. That's exactly my point. It's already all in TPM and this show added nothing new in that regard. Qui-Gon just appears like a road sign indicating that a viewer should turn back and consult a different source for all their nutriment. The makers could also be admitting a degree of inadequacy with a move like this. That's commendable, no? The series may well get people excited about the PT, but I don't like that as a defence in and of itself. It turns the series into a glorified fan trailer. The series should have brought plenty of substance of its own. In my opinion, it did not. I agree about a fundamental failure in that respect. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Jun 26, 2022 0:37:55 GMT
The series may well get people excited about the PT, but I don't like that as a defence in and of itself. It turns the series into a glorified fan trailer. The series should have brought plenty of substance of its own. In my opinion, it did not. I agree about its fundamental failure. LOL. You don't have to. We are each entitled to our own opinions. If other fans get more out of this series, that's fine. I think it had its moments, but it also just reinforced the superiority of Lucas' classical approach to narrative and drama (not to mention cinematography). |
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Post by Somny on Jun 26, 2022 0:44:18 GMT
I agree about its fundamental failure. LOL. You don't have to. We are each entitled to our own opinions. If other fans get more out of this series, that's fine. I think it had its moments, but it also just reinforced the superiority of Lucas' classical approach to narrative and drama (not to mention cinematography). I enjoyed the ride in a superficial, somewhat detached way. By now, I've come to fully expect that reinforcement every time and it never buckles. EDIT: 300th post! This is Sparta! |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 26, 2022 0:53:22 GMT
I agree about its fundamental failure. LOL. You don't have to. We are each entitled to our own opinions. If other fans get more out of this series, that's fine. I think it had its moments, but it also just reinforced the superiority of Lucas' classical approach to narrative and drama (not to mention cinematography).
Nobody's arguing that it has outdone Lucas, or brought us back to a purer form of Lucas. We can leave that kind of attitude to friend-of-the-forum JJ Abrams.
For me, it complimented the prequels, much like TCW did. Remember that the OT and the PT will always be the core of Star Wars, everything else is derivative. But there is good secondary sources and bad secondary sources, faithful and unfaithful, and that's the debate we're having.
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