|
|
Post by Seeker of the Whills on Jun 17, 2022 17:55:48 GMT
Yeah, maybe they were winking at the audience a little bit, but I thought the flashback was exceptionally well realized compared to the general quality of the series. I felt that there was actual love and care put into making it link up with AotC. Yeah, probably. I presume they had more time to think it through and wanted to evoke nostalgia in the viewer. Plus, because it's an isolated scene from a different time period, there isn't the same obligation on it to logically fit into an ongoing narrative. It's a strategically deployed flashback. If anything, the main episode was too weak to justify the flashback. Obi-Wan says that Vader hasn't the patience for a siege, but that rebel base didn't really need a drawn-out siege to breach it. I actually can't believe it took them that long to open the bloody door to allow the ship to escape. When Obi-Wan first gazes skyward at it, I assumed he would try using the Force, as he did when he held back the cracking glass in the previous episode. But no, he just stares hopelessly at it; and then the assignment is given to Leia, who basically took all episode to change a wire from one hole to another (and never noticed her malfunctioning droid hiding three feet away from her for some reason). Yeah, perhaps Anakin's dreams are making him a bit more difficult in AOTC. The flashback is very effective on its own terms. I do wonder, however, about its "reality". There seems to be this persistent desire from fans that Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship in the prequels be less contentious than what was shown (maybe the first act of Episode III excepted). Isn't that, in part, what motivated Lucas to make TCW? Fans wanted that buddy-cop aspect and dreamed of seeing them off on adventures. The flashback is tapping into that same urge. I don't know if a whole show between them in live-action would be very good. Maybe; if done right. But with Disney, that's the rub. Luke's dour nature and his absence from the fight, from his friends and family, hangs over the whole of TLJ like a dark cloud -- in a good way. It feels like something is truly at stake in his being away and Rey trying to convince him to return. Moreover, when he does return, he does it in a spectacular, high-minded way. Instead of defeating the First Order through violence, he uses pacifistic means to allow the remaining Resistance members to escape. He truly becomes a Jedi Master in the footsteps of Obi-Wan and Yoda. By contrast, this show's version of Obi-Wan is forever shooting people, piledriving them into the ground, and snapping their necks. There's not quite the same resonance, is there? I think Reva's a decent character, but it feels like Owen and Bail definitely carry a greater sense of history around. The Obi-Wan and Leia interactions have largely become moot. By ignoring these connections in favour of stressing Obi-Wan and Vader and Reva and Vader, maybe this episode got through by the skin of its teeth. However, without some return to the former set of character interactions in the final episode, this series is unlikely to wrap up in an especially satisfying or validating way. Jesus, what a pointless video. One minute and forty-one seconds of nothing. I'll sum it up: HAYDEN: I remember. EWAN: I remember, too. (Fill with ninety seconds of prequel recap footage set to generic Disney trailer music). The comments are nice and glowing, yes. That video proves, unfortunately, it's nothing to do with the quality of the show. Fans just gobble up those memberberries when Disney feeds them the right ones. Maybe I'm a sucker for being so dazzled by the flashback, but I can't help it. It's a fine addition to my collection of classic Star Wars moments.  I was basically so enamored with it that I didn't care to pay attention to the surrounding events in the episode, or whatever was the framing device. But yeah, the rest of the episode was weak. The stormtroopers spend some time shooting ineptly at the door, then Reva just waltzes over and cuts right through it? What was that about? And Vader not sensing that there was no one in the ship he was ripping apart, and that there was another identical ship filled with people right behind it. The whole firefight with the rebels vs. the stormtroopers was weird. If the stormtroopers could actually hit anything, they would have mowed down the rebels in seconds. Just odd writing and directing throughout. Which is why the flashback really stands out in a good way. Fans did want to see Anakin and Obi-Wan on adventures, and TCW was partly about that. Basically the only time in the films when Anakin isn't going through great turmoil is the first act of RotS, so seeing more of him in that mode is novel. With Disney at the helm, you never know, but since Filoni already dealt with them in TCW, I think with him in charge they could pull off an Anakin/Obi-Wan live action series. I think pre-TPM and between TPM and AotC are the most rich time periods that are yet to have been mined for content. The OT era is getting stale. This Obi-Wan is lacking resonance, and I think one article that I saw said well how this depiction is almost pointless because the end of RotS leads so well to the beginning of ANH. The show's portrayal doesn't really connect with either. Obi-Wan was hopeful at the end of RotS, so why is he so down in this series? The last episode has to pull off a miracle for the series to have any connectivity or reason for existing in the first place. I was disappointed by that video also, but I thought the comments were nice. And it just reillustrated how majestic even those short clips of the prequels are in comparison to the show it's actually promoting. The comments really only focus on the flashback, so I think they do say something about the quality of that one scene. It is the clear stand out fan favorite from the series, which I hope Disney takes note of. |
|
|
|
Post by nickromancer on Jun 17, 2022 19:13:39 GMT
Yeah, probably. I presume they had more time to think it through and wanted to evoke nostalgia in the viewer. Plus, because it's an isolated scene from a different time period, there isn't the same obligation on it to logically fit into an ongoing narrative. It's a strategically deployed flashback. If anything, the main episode was too weak to justify the flashback. Obi-Wan says that Vader hasn't the patience for a siege, but that rebel base didn't really need a drawn-out siege to breach it. I actually can't believe it took them that long to open the bloody door to allow the ship to escape. When Obi-Wan first gazes skyward at it, I assumed he would try using the Force, as he did when he held back the cracking glass in the previous episode. But no, he just stares hopelessly at it; and then the assignment is given to Leia, who basically took all episode to change a wire from one hole to another (and never noticed her malfunctioning droid hiding three feet away from her for some reason). Yeah, perhaps Anakin's dreams are making him a bit more difficult in AOTC. The flashback is very effective on its own terms. I do wonder, however, about its "reality". There seems to be this persistent desire from fans that Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship in the prequels be less contentious than what was shown (maybe the first act of Episode III excepted). Isn't that, in part, what motivated Lucas to make TCW? Fans wanted that buddy-cop aspect and dreamed of seeing them off on adventures. The flashback is tapping into that same urge. I don't know if a whole show between them in live-action would be very good. Maybe; if done right. But with Disney, that's the rub. Luke's dour nature and his absence from the fight, from his friends and family, hangs over the whole of TLJ like a dark cloud -- in a good way. It feels like something is truly at stake in his being away and Rey trying to convince him to return. Moreover, when he does return, he does it in a spectacular, high-minded way. Instead of defeating the First Order through violence, he uses pacifistic means to allow the remaining Resistance members to escape. He truly becomes a Jedi Master in the footsteps of Obi-Wan and Yoda. By contrast, this show's version of Obi-Wan is forever shooting people, piledriving them into the ground, and snapping their necks. There's not quite the same resonance, is there? I think Reva's a decent character, but it feels like Owen and Bail definitely carry a greater sense of history around. The Obi-Wan and Leia interactions have largely become moot. By ignoring these connections in favour of stressing Obi-Wan and Vader and Reva and Vader, maybe this episode got through by the skin of its teeth. However, without some return to the former set of character interactions in the final episode, this series is unlikely to wrap up in an especially satisfying or validating way. Jesus, what a pointless video. One minute and forty-one seconds of nothing. I'll sum it up: HAYDEN: I remember. EWAN: I remember, too. (Fill with ninety seconds of prequel recap footage set to generic Disney trailer music). The comments are nice and glowing, yes. That video proves, unfortunately, it's nothing to do with the quality of the show. Fans just gobble up those memberberries when Disney feeds them the right ones. Maybe I'm a sucker for being so dazzled by the flashback, but I can't help it. It's a fine addition to my collection of classic Star Wars moments. I was basically so enamored with it that I didn't care to pay attention to the surrounding events in the episode, or whatever was the framing device. But yeah, the rest of the episode was weak. The stormtroopers spend some time shooting ineptly at the door, then Reva just waltzes over and cuts right through it? What was that about? And Vader not sensing that there was no one in the ship he was ripping apart, and that there was another identical ship filled with people right behind it. The whole firefight with the rebels vs. the stormtroopers was weird. If the stormtroopers could actually hit anything, they would have mowed down the rebels in seconds. Just odd writing and directing throughout. Which is why the flashback really stands out in a good way. Fans did want to see Anakin and Obi-Wan on adventures, and TCW was partly about that. Basically the only time in the films when Anakin isn't going through great turmoil is the first act of RotS, so seeing more of him in that mode is novel. With Disney at the helm, you never know, but since Filoni already dealt with them in TCW, I think with him in charge they could pull off an Anakin/Obi-Wan live action series. I think pre-TPM and between TPM and AotC are the most rich time periods that are yet to have been mined for content. The OT era is getting stale. This Obi-Wan is lacking resonance, and I think one article that I saw said well how this depiction is almost pointless because the end of RotS leads so well to the beginning of ANH. The show's portrayal doesn't really connect with either. Obi-Wan was hopeful at the end of RotS, so why is he so down in this series? The last episode has to pull off a miracle for the series to have any connectivity or reason for existing in the first place. I was disappointed by that video also, but I thought the comments were nice. And it just reillustrated how majestic even those short clips of the prequels are in comparison to the show it's actually promoting. The comments really only focus on the flashback, so I think they do say something about the quality of that one scene. It is the clear stand out fan favorite from the series, which I hope Disney takes note of. You’re point about the bridge between ANH-ROTS is how I feel, and it’s my fundamental misgiving with Rogue One too. I - VI is one movie and these stories are like poorly fitting additional scenes, all that watching them between the movies accomplishes is making the audience forget what’s important, and changing the emotional context created by putting the scenes in order. Thereby destroying the careful plotting of the six. |
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Jun 17, 2022 19:24:59 GMT
Maybe I'm a sucker for being so dazzled by the flashback, but I can't help it. It's a fine addition to my collection of classic Star Wars moments.  I was basically so enamored with it that I didn't care to pay attention to the surrounding events in the episode, or whatever was the framing device. But yeah, the rest of the episode was weak. The stormtroopers spend some time shooting ineptly at the door, then Reva just waltzes over and cuts right through it? What was that about? And Vader not sensing that there was no one in the ship he was ripping apart, and that there was another identical ship filled with people right behind it. The whole firefight with the rebels vs. the stormtroopers was weird. If the stormtroopers could actually hit anything, they would have mowed down the rebels in seconds. Just odd writing and directing throughout. Which is why the flashback really stands out in a good way. HA! Since you invoke General Grievous there, let me say that I did enjoy the base being stormed, if only for Reva shouting commands at the stormtroopers, in a GG-esque way: "Seal them in!"/"Wipe them out!" The stormtroopers do inflict some losses on the rebels, but yeah, it felt like it should have been a slaughterfest. Any sense of time or story-logic seems like it was thrown out of the window in this episode. Leia is in that little maintenance area for what seems like forever, Obi-Wan tells everyone they have one hour to seal all the entrance points into the base even as the Imperial troop ships are flying to the surface, the main door is getting pounded by the stormtroopers with that big gun and the rebels are initially quite blase about it (Obi-Wan and Tala even have a boring, momentum-killing scene together with Tala explaining her hatred of the Empire while this is going on), and to repeat some of your criticisms, Reva rips open the door with greater ease than Qui-Gon on the TF ship (which made blasting it seem pointless), while Vader rips that ship apart but apparently can't detect that Obi-Wan and the rebels are hiding in the other ship just behind it, and yeah... I hate to be one of those fanboys that screams "bad writing", but the writing here was lazy and things just happened in a clumsy and unbelievable manner. I don't really trust Disney not to screw it up. The premise is rich with possibility, but maybe some things are better left unexplored and confined to the imagination. If we're not careful, the prequels will soon be swamped with tangential content; diminishing, perhaps, even their uniqueness, eventually. Well, he was hopeful because Yoda told him that communication with Qui-Gon was possible. The series is based on the conceit that he has struggled to commune with him, or that Qui-Gon has fallen silent for some reason. I'm okay with that in and of itself. It's how the show has developed since that bothers me. Sure, but it's a little like fans gushing all over Vader's killing sequence at the end of "Rogue One". One scene doesn't a good movie or series make. Disney just isn't consistent with what it does. It would be nice to see Anakin and Obi-Wan in some other set of adventures with the actors that brought them to life in the prequels, but I'd rather see something new being attempted. Leaning heavily on the old instead of charting new shores has been the big problem with Star Wars under Disney ever since Lucas sold in 2012. Ten years of looking to the past instead of planning for and embracing the future. |
|
|
|
Post by Samnz on Jun 17, 2022 21:26:06 GMT
Yeah, perhaps Anakin's dreams are making him a bit more difficult in AOTC. The flashback is very effective on its own terms. I do wonder, however, about its "reality". There seems to be this persistent desire from fans that Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship in the prequels be less contentious than what was shown (maybe the first act of Episode III excepted). Isn't that, in part, what motivated Lucas to make TCW? Fans wanted that buddy-cop aspect and dreamed of seeing them off on adventures. The flashback is tapping into that same urge. I don't know if a whole show between them in live-action would be very good. Maybe; if done right. But with Disney, that's the rub. I think the Speeder Chase in AOTC still captures their relationship in this time period best. It manages to merge a certain underlying tension and bickering with a genuine sense of them caring deeply for each other. I love the dialogue in those scenes, too. It's fun, but not overly staged to make a character purposely "something" like cool or badass, which is happening all too often in movies. Although enyoying the flashback, I think it felt a bit more forced than the Speeder Chase. |
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Jun 17, 2022 22:26:52 GMT
Yeah, perhaps Anakin's dreams are making him a bit more difficult in AOTC. The flashback is very effective on its own terms. I do wonder, however, about its "reality". There seems to be this persistent desire from fans that Anakin and Obi-Wan's relationship in the prequels be less contentious than what was shown (maybe the first act of Episode III excepted). Isn't that, in part, what motivated Lucas to make TCW? Fans wanted that buddy-cop aspect and dreamed of seeing them off on adventures. The flashback is tapping into that same urge. I don't know if a whole show between them in live-action would be very good. Maybe; if done right. But with Disney, that's the rub. I love the dialogue in those scenes, too. It's fun, but not overly staged to make a character purposely "something" like cool or badass, which is happening all too often in movies. Although enyoying the flashback, I think it felt a bit more forced than the Speeder Chase. Oh, yes. The speeder chase is a fantastic sequence, top to bottom (no pun). I had a nice exchange about it on TFN in 2011 with a poster named d_arblay, in a terrific little thread celebrating all the good/great things about AOTC (which there are a great many of): boards.theforce.net/threads/the-great-things-about-aotc.31592036/page-4Ironically, anakinfansince1983, of all people, probably summed up the dynamic best in this handful of lines (back before she turned crazy): boards.theforce.net/threads/the-great-things-about-aotc.31592036/page-4#post-31677207Another neat summation of the unique joyfulness of sequence from another TFN poster called themoth, in a more recent AOTC celebration thread: boards.theforce.net/threads/calling-all-aotc-lovers.50039195/page-10#post-54299523Oh, and here's ol' Cryo himself from the same thread, a few replies down: boards.theforce.net/threads/calling-all-aotc-lovers.50039195/page-10#post-54301239My sentence construction hasn't really improved, has it?   tl;dr: The chase sequence is very technically competent and well-directed, fun, colourful, exciting; and best of all: Lucas sneaks some critical character detail in, fleshing out the Obi-Wan/Anakin dynamic in a way that is both amusing and poignant. Lucas' concision still floors me. How he can pack so much into so little, I might never understand. It's certainly one of the chief thrills of watching Star Wars: His Star Wars. It's why we keep returning to it. There's just so much to discover and re-discover. Although the Obi-Wan series flashback is well done, I think I agree with you. Just as an action sequence, the speeder chase is obviously way better, and far more elaborate and intricate. But it's also a bit less obvious, yes. Obi-Wan doesn't need to call out Anakin directly for his aggression. Instead, he scolds Anakin outside the club and reminds him that Zam "went in there to hide, not to run". Then the subsequent part where Obi-Wan heads to the bar for a drink while Anakin paces and flushes out the assassin makes the point clear: i.e., it establishes the value of slowing down and playing it cool to outwit a flustered and impatient foe. Anakin's desire to surpass Obi-Wan, or earn his approval, is covered elsewhere in AOTC and didn't really need going over again in the series. It's honestly all there in the prequels already. |
|
|
|
Post by Samnz on Jun 18, 2022 6:32:25 GMT
I think that whole part of the movie on Coruscant is extremely underrated. First off, Coruscant at night looks incredible to this day. What also allows the night setting to make obvious is Anakin as a dark knight figure, which is contrasted very well with Obi-Wan. And it's multilayered. We get to learn a bit more about their daily life with a hint of a political discussion and them having an argument about how to conduct the investigation or protection, respectively. All of that is nicely edited and directed while covering Zam's next attempt simultaneously, by the way. The scene then moves into intimate territority and Anakin's dreams.  Dreams pass in time.A simple truth. A simple objective fact that's incomprehensible with the subjective reality of the one who is dreaming. Also that shot of Anakin where we get to see him remarkably vulnerable. See how Hayden subtly accentuates his character feeling lost and insecure with his hand and fingers nervously searching for halt. Fine piece of physical acting. I chose the shot of Obi-Wan above because it illustrates how he tries to sympathize with Anakin as good as he can, but growing up as a Jedi apparently leads to crossed arms when another persons opens up. Feelings, emotions. Shielded. This is the result of Lucas directing actors.  I'd much rather dream about Padmè.Apart from being a line with an unusual sexual subtext for the series, it's noticeable how well Lucas manages to change the mood of a scene from one moment to the next. Add our future knowledge and Anakin's line gets a whole new tragic irony, before the chase begins. George Lucas is a much better writer and director than being given credit for. Subtext Mining Tagging you because this actually fits your thread "Scene Analysis" more than this. |
|
|
|
Post by jppiper on Jun 20, 2022 5:29:12 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Jun 20, 2022 12:51:37 GMT
I don't know. So far, it doesn't seem we've really seen anything in the series trying to justify or live up to that line. I guess it all hinges on the sixth -- and supposedly final -- episode. |
|
|
|
Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 20, 2022 13:52:29 GMT
Apart from that does this show still feature some pretty weak production values. I appreciate them visiting Coruscant, but it couldn't hold a candle against a movie that was made 20 years ago when Windows 98 ruled. That's incredible and just, again, highlights the pioneering work of ILM back then. I also felt the Rebel base was screaming "I am a set!" every minute and Vader stopping the ship looked just bad. At least, I liked that scene. I'm looking forward to seeing the last episode and I hope the have a good ending in store. There shouldn't be a Season 2, to be honest. Curious to see how they are going to pay hommage to ROTJ with their last episode. They certainly didn't outdo Coruscant as depicted in Episode III, but with the advancement in computing power and CGI rendering, it's not so difficult to get more detailed than what we saw in Episodes I and II. We should note that VFX operations have been significantly undermined by the Covid pandemic. It's lead to the visual effects being finished very lately on a lot of projects, and even compromises on others. It would not surprise me if this series was impacted. Either that, or the budget. I do hope the show was afforded the same funding as a season of The Mandalorian, I'll be terribly disappointed otherwise. Star Wars television shouldn't get any bigger than Obi-Wan Kenobi, we've known him before any bounty hunter.
Opening shot of the 5th episode: Sees my favourite Star Wars planet **takes deep breath**
This is where the fun begins
I hoped for your favourite planet being Naboo for a few moments after reading this. I just miss Naboo. It's a very close race, to be honest, Samnz. Whilst I do have Naboo in my username, it is Coruscant that I plan to put in the title of my Star Wars blog (whenever I get around to it properly...). Both planets are head and shoulders above all else for me. In contrast to Camino (Book of Bubba Fett?) and Mustafar (Rogue One), they seem to be closely guarding the capital planet and Padmé's homeworld. In general, I tend to be happiest when they're away from the spaceships, especially the bland, overly spacious, modern incarnations we saw in the sequels. Even if it was missing the flying traffic, and looked like a over simplified painting in the first shot, Coruscant did start to shine as the fight sequence progressed. Look closely when the mid shots of Obi-Wan appear, it's quite illuminated, and you will see a lot of detail, not in the higher skyscrapers, but the many reaching the surface level (for lack of a better word). There is a Parisian chalky glow to these buildings, which reminded me immediately of these kind of shots in Inception. The sparring room from the Jedi Temple highly impressed me. I took little notice when it first appeared in the opening scene of the series, as it was night and well, it didn't have time to shine, pun intended. Here, in the daytime, it was in its glory with all the ornate marble on show, almost with a Baroque-like swagger, and you got to witness modern CGI in full effect in the reaction - in the dance - between the light and the floor. The interior is where they put most of their effort in, and I'm happy to say it's my favourite from any Disney produced Star Wars. Coruscant is the more otherworldly planet for me. I didn't grow up in a town, let alone a metropolis on our Earth like New York or Shanghai. Think more like Ach-To in TLJ, except literally. Well, maybe not literally, we weren't that bad, but its rugged, rural landscape is very familiar to me. When that's what you're used to, Coruscant does feel alien. The depiction of the Senate house in Episode III remains my favourite building design in the whole saga, it still blows me away all these years later. Theed Palace would be second. The portrayal of Theed at night during the funeral procession for Padmé would be my pick for most beautiful urban environment depicted in any Star Wars.
I will admit they could have gone a bit further on the number skyscrapers in the background. It comes across as much more dense in ROTS, though that may just be an illusion of the camera angles. When thing get threadbare you do start to think more Dubai (height for the sake of it) than New York (height as functional).
That gets me thinking, should we run poll threads for favourite building, interior, costume, hairstyle and the like? The only problem is there's so many examples for each, it's likely that I won't remember them all on the list of answers.
|
|
|
|
Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 20, 2022 15:32:31 GMT
Some newer interviews with Hayden, done in the lead up to the 5th episode's release. Notice how he seems to be trying to guard some spoilers yet to come (in the 6th episode)
|
|
|
|
Post by nickromancer on Jun 20, 2022 16:13:39 GMT
I don't know. So far, it doesn't seem we've really seen anything in the series trying to justify or live up to that line. I guess it all hinges on the sixth -- and supposedly final -- episode. I think the notion of that scene being an inconsistency between the originals and the prequels is wrong. Obi-Wan’s dialogue before and during their fight in III is what Vader is referring to here. When he appeals to Anakin that Chancellor Palpatine is evil he’s thinking he can get through to Anakin. |
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Jun 20, 2022 16:30:43 GMT
I don't know. So far, it doesn't seem we've really seen anything in the series trying to justify or live up to that line. I guess it all hinges on the sixth -- and supposedly final -- episode. I think the notion of that scene being an inconsistency between the originals and the prequels is wrong. Obi-Wan’s dialogue before and during their fight in III is what Vader is referring to here. When he appeals to Anakin that Chancellor Palpatine is evil he’s thinking he can get through to Anakin. Yes -- and the Padme factor. Obi-Wan lets Padme talk to Anakin and try and reason with him before he intervenes on Mustafar. When Obi-Wan suddenly appears at the top her ship, Anakin immediately accuses Padme of betraying him. As he looks back on his life, you imagine that Anakin is filled with regret. His sorrowful line on Endor implies that he no longer blames Padme for what happened. It suggests he feels that he misinterpreted her actions and has since made peace with the idea that Obi-Wan was trying to reach him indirectly through the person closest to him. |
|
|
|
Post by eljedicolombiano on Jun 20, 2022 23:57:19 GMT
I'm only in the third episode so far, but my god, how incredibly underwhelming.
The Obi-Wan/Vader duel REALLY leaves a lot to desire. If they don't rematch in the last episode I have to wonder what the people at the Presidio are smoking
|
|
|
|
Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 21, 2022 0:13:33 GMT
Well, sure, it could be an obsession. I only used the word "might" because there's no direct on-screen evidence of that. On the surface, Vader only appears to be obsessed with getting back at the universe by erasing the Jedi and eradicating the Rebellion. However, fans do need to keep in mind why Anakin pledged himself to Sidious in the first place. If Disney is working with the Faustian angle, that's fine with me. I figure that some prequel fans may have a problem with it, however; if only because Disney are doing it and that makes it fake and worthless and stupid, etc. On-screen, no, there's no evidence. The comics, by contrast, really go to town on Vader. I'm far from a comics guy, but the Vader comic series has been a fun read (it's still ongoing).
According to Christensen in the interviews above, Padmé still weighs on Vader's mind, along with other factors like pursuing Obi-Wan, which of course is centre stage in this series. A lot of the fans enjoy the one-dimensional, slash and bash everything Vader. I'm personally more interested in a Vader whose able to make an error, hesitate on occasion (Obi-Wan getting way in 3rd episode), or toy with his opponent (Reva in the most recent episode). I easily preferred this series' portrayal of the character to the terminator we got in Rogue One. They've tried to incorporate aspects of Anakin into the voice, and I appreciate those things.
I suspect we're in store for a lot more Vader in the finale. Buckle up! I'm only in the third episode so far, but my god, how incredibly underwhelming. The Obi-Wan/Vader duel REALLY leaves a lot to desire. If they don't rematch in the last episode I have to wonder what the people at the Presidio are smoking That was the point, Obi-Wan was lacking in his force ability and Vader recognised and was disappointed by that. It made no narrative sense putting in a glorious duel at that point, and I'm not sure I even want one at the series end either. There's no way you can ever get something approaching the Mustafar duel when it involves a suited and very much robotic Vader. I'm more interested in the conversation to be had. |
|
|
|
Post by eljedicolombiano on Jun 21, 2022 1:19:39 GMT
I'm not asking for a Mustafar duel- a competent duel is enough. Not to mention Vader's line of "when I left you I was but the learner" can only mean their last confrontation if you accept the series, not Mustafar.
|
|
|
|
Post by Darkslayer on Jun 21, 2022 3:22:16 GMT
I'm only in the third episode so far, but my god, how incredibly underwhelming. The Obi-Wan/Vader duel REALLY leaves a lot to desire. If they don't rematch in the last episode I have to wonder what the people at the Presidio are smoking Patience. If it sucks it sucks, but I'm waiting until everything is released before I jump to that type of conclusion. Episode 5 made the series so much fun. |
|
|
|
Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 21, 2022 3:34:12 GMT
I think the notion of that scene being an inconsistency between the originals and the prequels is wrong. Obi-Wan’s dialogue before and during their fight in III is what Vader is referring to here. When he appeals to Anakin that Chancellor Palpatine is evil he’s thinking he can get through to Anakin. Yes -- and the Padme factor. Obi-Wan lets Padme talk to Anakin and try and reason with him before he intervenes on Mustafar. When Obi-Wan suddenly appears at the top her ship, Anakin immediately accuses Padme of betraying him. As he looks back on his life, you imagine that Anakin is filled with regret. His sorrowful line on Endor implies that he no longer blames Padme for what happened. It suggests he feels that he misinterpreted her actions and has since made peace with the idea that Obi-Wan was trying to reach him indirectly through the person closest to him. Precisely. |
|
|
|
Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 21, 2022 15:12:14 GMT
I'm not asking for a Mustafar duel- a competent duel is enough. Not to mention Vader's line of "when I left you I was but the learner" can only mean their last confrontation if you accept the series, not Mustafar.
That line was retconned by the maker himself when he made Anakin a Jedi knight in ROTS, a Jedi brother to Obi-Wan. He no longer was a padowan. TCW further explored this thread. I do not understand all these hang-ups over lines in ANH, it is nothing compared to undoing the ending of ROTJ.
Mustafar will always be the defining duel between Obi-Wan and Anakin. It was here that the two fell out for good, Anakin was defeated with life-altering wounds, and Obi-Wan couldn't bring himself to finish the job. I really liked how they integrated the punches, kicks, chokes and grappling, these physical strikes brought a new level of intensity that we'd never seen before, and are known to have happened during real sword fights of the past.
|
|
|
|
Post by eljedicolombiano on Jun 21, 2022 16:25:50 GMT
That’s simply not true at all.
I’ve never interpreted being “the learner” in a hyper literalist Padawan sense. He’s clearly alluding to the fact that the last time they met he almost died and Obi-Wan had the final upper hand.
|
|
|
|
Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Jun 21, 2022 17:17:26 GMT
That’s simply not true at all. I’ve never interpreted being “the learner” in a hyper literalist Padawan sense. He’s clearly alluding to the fact that the last time they met he almost died and Obi-Wan had the final upper hand.
Hyper literalist, what's that supposed to mean? You're bending language. It's a clear contradiction. Anakin is not a padowan or learner or apprentice or whatever synonym of your choice in ROTS. He's a qualified Jedi, albeit not a master and one who gets on the Council by dubious political interference. Look at how Obi-Wan refers to him as a brother on Mustfar. It's no longer the deferring relationship of AOTC, it's changed significantly over the war.
The thing is, I'm happy that Lucas changed it and made Anakin a Jedi knight in ROTS. When Lucas changed the continuity he always had a good reason for it. Why should he be beholden to one single throwaway line from Leia in ROTJ, when he can actually flesh out a proper character in Padmé, and develop her arc to the point she doesn't stick around past ROTS for the sake of it, for some silly consolation, as she's of no use and would only be narratively marginalised if she did survive.
|
|
That's a good way to describe most of Disney's Star Wars products so far. They have been downers in one way or another. I think TRoS and Solo came closest to that high-flying serial adventure style of the Lucas films. Otherwise their films have largely dealt with aging characters that aren't what they used to be. I did not have the reaction that many had to the changed Luke in TLJ, but I seem to be experiencing that feeling with Obi-Wan in this series. I think with TLJ it somehow worked for me. Like you say, there was a gravitas to that performance and take on the character. I'm not feeling that in Obi-Wan here.
I was basically so enamored with it that I didn't care to pay attention to the surrounding events in the episode, or whatever was the framing device. But yeah, the rest of the episode was weak. The stormtroopers spend some time shooting ineptly at the door, then Reva just waltzes over and cuts right through it? What was that about? And Vader not sensing that there was no one in the ship he was ripping apart, and that there was another identical ship filled with people right behind it. The whole firefight with the rebels vs. the stormtroopers was weird. If the stormtroopers could actually hit anything, they would have mowed down the rebels in seconds. Just odd writing and directing throughout. Which is why the flashback really stands out in a good way.
I was basically so enamored with it that I didn't care to pay attention to the surrounding events in the episode, or whatever was the framing device. But yeah, the rest of the episode was weak. The stormtroopers spend some time shooting ineptly at the door, then Reva just waltzes over and cuts right through it? What was that about? And Vader not sensing that there was no one in the ship he was ripping apart, and that there was another identical ship filled with people right behind it. The whole firefight with the rebels vs. the stormtroopers was weird. If the stormtroopers could actually hit anything, they would have mowed down the rebels in seconds. Just odd writing and directing throughout. Which is why the flashback really stands out in a good way.
