Obi-Wan Kenobi series: speculation

I brought the frozen credits up as a negative in my first flurry of thoughts on the series premiere (Reply #452). It's an odd choice and pretty annoying, indeed. 

One thing I forgot to mention, and it hasn't changed at all since, is that the volume is incredibly low. Does anyone else have this problem? I literally have to turn the slider up on the video screen (watching via Disney+ on my PC) all the way and the volume slider for my computer itself. I was watching clips of the show on YouTube earlier and they all seem to have the same issue. It doesn't seem to just be me. Something appears to be wrong here and I wish they'd fix it. 


I don't know. My guess going in is she either dies or redeems herself in some way at the end. But now they're allegedly retooling the final episodes and letting her live or -- ??

I could see her getting a spinoff series of her own, I guess.

I don't know how I feel about this. A part of me sees it as borderline-inevitable, then the other part of me says: "This was meant to be a complete experience in six episodes. No more, no less." That was how they pitched it to fans, and when it expanded from a feature film to a miniseries, they had more space to develop things and take their time. Now, simply because of its early (and not-too-surprising) popularity, they are thinking of an additional season (or whatever)? Was this part of the plan all along or are they just being flippant and scrambling for anything that suddenly generates good numbers? It makes them sound greedy and fearful, like they don't really know what fans want, and as soon as they see something catching fire, they're all like, "LET'S MAKE MORE OF THAT!"

I was hoping this would be a fairly conclusive story for Obi-Wan. I can see how there might be an opportunity to maybe do a spinoff with some of the other characters, but can't they just leave Obi-Wan alone, be it miserable in the desert (at the start) or back there with purpose (at the end)? I mean, yes, Star Wars obviously thrives on duality, and the notion that the first season could focus on Leia and the second season on Luke is very appealing. But they shouldn't just pad it into two seasons because Star Wars fans are responding positively. 

You also raise a good point here:


They could do a Bail thing, I suppose, but there's already the forthcoming "Andor", and isn't the Obi-Wan series meant to be about, y'know: Obi-Wan? I hope Deborah Chow doesn't compromise herself and agree to something that her heart isn't really in.

Rewatching it helped me enjoy the episode more and find more value in its choices, but I also think that maybe the third episode is where the series' strengths and weaknesses are becoming more apparent. The second act tends to make or break anything with the name "Star Wars" on it. 


Well, first and foremost, I'm not sure this series is trying to create perfect textual congruity with the main Saga films. Put another way, I think a battered, broken-down Obi-Wan is the excuse to explore the premise of a fallen (or fallow) Jedi who displays many human weaknesses. On Daiyu, the kidnapper guy, played by Flea, tells Obi-Wan he's "just a man", commenting that Obi-Wan bleeds like any mortal. It is clear the series is exploiting a tension between the elevated and the guttural, the high-minded and the gross. Notice that other characters evoke Jedi motifs more than Obi-Wan. For instance, Bail and Breha first contact Obi-Wan by hologram (Jedi Ghosts), then Bail shows up directly in Obi-Wan's cave, like he teleported there with the Force, and he's wearing a hood/robe, which he turns around and removes with Jedi-like grace. Obi-Wan is clearly detached from his old ways, the ways of the Jedi, yet still has eerie proximity with them -- all, in its own way, key to him learning how to be "Obi-Wan Kenobi" again.

I know this sounds like an obvious point, but he fully accepts being a Jedi in ROTS and ANH. That's not the case in this series. He has even buried the lightsabers in the sand, like Rey, as if that life is dead and in the words of Kylo Ren "means nothing" to him. He's a changed man. The extreme detachment he shows is really because he effectively has something like PTSD. Obi-Wan seeing that old clone as soon as he arrives on Daiyu really highlights that. It's a bit like Luke seeing his face in the mask of Vader on Dagobah or Rey's vision of herself as a Sith temptress on the ruins of the Second Death Star. Look how hard that clone has fallen. Obi-Wan is quietly aghast that he's really gazing upon a vision of himself. From long ago when he was looked up to (before being traitored) and called "General" by hundreds of men with the same face (albeit often hidden behind a helmet). Obi-Wan didn't even seem to think the clone army was all that bad in Episode II. Apt that in "episode two" of the series, his response displays a far greater sense of paralysis and horror.

While there perhaps could have been one or two lighter moments from Obi-Wan himself, we're only halfway through and I think we're getting there. A lot of Obi-Wan's humour in the prequels comes from him being a cocky badass, cool and confident in his power. In ANH, it's because he has placed his trust in the Force once more and has a renewed relationship with it, thanks to his implied years of solitude communing with Qui-Gon. Again, we're in the exact middle of those epochs, where Obi-Wan is presently mired in doubt and uncertainty. You only have to see his emasculated behaviour in the meat-packing scenes to realise this Obi-Wan is a seriously hollowed-out person compared to how he used to be. He has chosen to keep his head down and hide away from who he really is. This series is about him rediscovering who he is. In the words of the American music critic Jon Landau: "There is something magical about watching a man who has lost himself find his way back home."

Now, as for the Leia thing:

Everyone seems to have a pseudonym or a double identity of some sort in the series and it's almost maddening. This might be why Obi-Wan slips up and uses Leia's real name in the truck. He gets a little puddled trying to juggle all the secrets and lies, all the ruses and chicanery of the past. He's basically out of touch. Moreover, he's just been shaken to the core to discover that Anakin is alive, and it is only five minutes before he makes that mistake that he sees a vision of Anakin in the distance. This is not a guy firing on all cylinders. Even Yoda seemed to go a little crazy on Dagobah. In Obi-Wan's defence, he also recovers fast, with Leia's help, and the actors play that moment well. Ewan still has all the calm and poise of his ROTS incarnation of Obi-Wan. It's very warming to see.   


It's great casting and I think that's my favourite scene. The fact that Obi-Wan recalls his own family, in brief "flashes", is also entrancing by itself. See, at this point in his life story, Obi-Wan is clearly having regrets about the Jedi Path, and this little scene humanises him to an incredible degree. Who is he, anymore? Does Obi-Wan even know? For the first time ever, he emerges as a continuous, living, breathing entity, not just "Obi-Wan Kenobi: Jedi Knight and trainer of Anakin Skywalker." Ewan again is fantastic here.


I think the idea is that the Sith are still the most fearsome, secretive, and powerful of the Dark Side Force-users (and Jedi, as keepers of the light, are just as formidable and almost as rare, in their own right). The Inquisitors themselves do their "inquisiting", to steal Leia's word, within a secret tower on a vast water-world, and their conference chamber is apparently underwater. All Inquisitors are Force-users, yes:

starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Inquisitorius


Here's some behind-the-scenes info from the same page:


It was Dave Filoni who made them an "official" thing (by including them in "Rebels"), but as you can see, the basic concept goes back a long way and wasn't even the first time they were part of the extended lore of the Star Wars universe. There shouldn't necessarily be an abundance of blatant Force usage in Imperial times, but this show is focused on unique individuals, like Obi-Wan, Vader, and Reva, so we're getting a skewed impression based on a non-representative sample. Of course, if you find the Inquisitor concept questionable (or Disney doing Star Wars), the whole thing may feel fake or excessive. I love it, but people's mileage always varies when it comes to Star Wars.


I feel Vader probably has a similar power level here to "Rogue One", but he's not quite as cool or focused, letting his emotions get the better of him -- just as Anakin's arrogance got the better of him on Mustafar. This factor, combined with Obi-Wan being weak and out of touch, strongly implies we're getting a re-match later in the series. 

Obi-Wan dealt with the information that Anakin is alive about as well as he could be expected to, I think. He was shocked and on the verge of a nervous breakdown, and so he retreated into the Force, to find out if it were true. And while meditating, he again called on Qui-Gon for help. 

Ewan's acting there is excellent, in my opinion. Again, I think it's worth remembering that Obi-Wan isn't a dashing, heroic Jedi anymore. Even toward the end of the episode, when his Jedi name is mentioned, he still insists on being called Ben. He's really just a man trying to do right by old friends. That's what's so affecting about it.


I think they were almost deliberately going for a low-rent, B-movie horror feel there. Vader appears at nightfall, with his Inquisitor buddies, as a ghoul or scarecrow terrorising the village. Obi-Wan draws him away to the outskirts, not even knowing what to do, and it just turns into this random, bare-knuckle scrap in the dirt. Nothing especially operatic or awe-inspiring about it, just a few teases (like when Obi-Wan slashes the pipe and the gas floods the screen), and then the one operatic part where Vader raises Obi-Wan up and then drags him toward the fire. That last part is more evocative of a comic strip or the pulp-sublime of the prequels and then it's over. I think they're definitely planning to unleash a far more impressive encounter in the second-half of the series.


Well, you could never confuse this series with the prequels. The latter are just brilliantly self-contained and, as works of cinematic/storytelling art, totally impregnable. This series is more a low-key mood piece on a prequel character flecked with dashes of pulp grandeur. The tone-poem nature of it, televisual techniques aside, is very much like something Lucas could get behind -- well, on paper, at least. He would, of course, make something different. But this is still smart and entertaining (to me) in its own way.

It'd be a shame if they brought Ewan back and never allowed him to crack a smile. He's a naturally charismatic guy and his version of Obi-Wan has always been defined by a cheeky glint in his eye and a wry remark. Of course, as I said before, this series is deliberately stripping his Obi-Wan of those elements, rendering him "naked". There have, however, been a few moments of humour with Obi-Wan, not the least of which were all his difficulties with Leia on Daiyu. At the end of that episode, when they walk into the cargo hold, you can see that some of the old Obi-Wan is returning. He is suddenly wistful, talking elliptically of Padme, and I like how he calls Leia stubborn, only for her to instantly deny it which causes Obi-Wan to double down: "Yes, you are!" The mood is broken by Reva's intrusion into the cargo hold, and after Obi-Wan is told of Anakin still being alive in the terrible form of Darth Vader, that progress is lost (or subdued). Hopefully, however, as Obi-Wan finds his footing as a Jedi again, we'll see some lightness from him in the last couple of episodes. 


Interesting rhyme! I didn't catch that. Once Anakin Skywalker, always Anakin Skywalker. And also (him having become a "Master" with a throne): be careful what you wish for?


Well, Vader can't bring himself to kill Luke, as Luke chides him for in ROTJ. This series has now made clear that he had the same struggle with Obi-Wan. Vader is such an authoritative, take-charge character, yet he's ultimately riven with conflict. Anakin still lives, quite as Reva said. He can't help letting it show when he faces Obi-Wan.


Yeah, he has changed a lot from his prequel days, but many of the same mannerisms are there. I noticed, playing back the cargo hold clip, Obi-Wan wraps his cloak around himself and folds his arms across his front, just like he does in ROTS. Little things really maketh the man. But, yeah, his scampy sense of humour is the one aspect that is largely absent here. Still, you do see traces of it (just to return to this point), like his mirthful scolding of Teeka for selling him back his own possessions, which is reminiscent of him telling Obi-Wan not to upset Grievous because they have a job to do, or complaining, when Anakin jumps out of the elevator that he's "always on the move". The drollness that forms part of Obi-Wan's playful humour is still intact, if not quite the humour itself. And, of course: Leia keeping Obi-Wan on his toes on Daiyu is also similar to many moments between Obi-Wan and Anakin in the opening acts of AOTC and ROTS. 


Hamill was stronger, yeah. Well... from a certain point of view.  Let's not forget, however, that many fans found Luke out of character (even if that was kinda the point), even showing comedy/trolling traits that he never did before. Luke gained some salty humour, Obi-Wan has apparently lost his. Given the shorter run-time of TLJ, it juggling many characters, and Luke only comprising a small (if important and memorable) part of the film, I think Luke had to show anger and bitterness. They have avoided making those aspects so prominent in Obi-Wan. Luke totally retreated to the island in protest/anger, and when Rey arrives, he is far more avoidant and contemptuous of her being there and trying to get his help than Obi-Wan is to Bail, let alone to Leia. Obi-Wan has become a bit of a deadbeat, but not an arse. I think, in part, they are trying to avoid negative comparisons with TLJ, emphasising Obi-Wan's sadness and grief more than some of the other traits showed by Luke.


I was hoping for a bit of trash-talking in the Obi-Wan/Vader fight, don't get me wrong, but as far as Lor San Tekka's line, there is Obi-Wan's rather indicting, "What have you become?" He basically goes silent after that, but he's meant to be really out of shape, and only a pale ember of the Obi-Wan he used to be. Perhaps that is why Vader flings him clear of the fire. He sees that Obi-Wan is just a weak, pathetic old man, short on tricks, sapped of energy and vitality. Seeing Obi-Wan in such a weakened state pricks his emotions, either activating his remaining compassion circuits or just filling him with contempt (or both). He can't kill this fool. Not yet. There's no satisfaction it.

There is some resonance here with Bane breaking Batman in "The Dark Knight Rises". Their fight is better-staged and more brutal than the one between Vader and Obi-Wan, I must say, and there are more and better putdowns from Bane (while Bruce's one comeback, that Bane was excommunicated by a gang of psychopaths, drives Bane into a deeper rage). I hope Obi-Wan and Vader have a second confrontation that is more like that: better setting, more edge. It comes to a kind of indeterminate close after Vader lets Obi-Wan live. There has to be another encounter. I can see why they did it the way they did, but Round Two must truly deliver.

Oh, yes. That moment in the cargo hold was great, where he reminisces of Padmé. There he flashed a sly smile, and I felt like he was the old Obi again. So there is a deliberate change to the character being more dejected, which is appropriate, with glimpses of his former self bubbling to the surface at carefully chosen points. His talks to Leia about the Force and his family also felt like Obi-Wan moments. He got to share some of his wisdom there.

The more I look at that pair of frames, the more compelling it becomes. Yes, be careful what you wish for. Anakin is now the master he wanted to be, but he had to give up everything else to attain that position. You see the difference in the rooms, with the "knights of the round table" democratic council of the Jedi, while Vader's throne room indeed only has his throne, symbolising the Empire's one will. Coruscant, his former home base, has been exchanged for his own personal hell, Mustafar, where he was fully transformed into Lord Vader. This series did slightly riff off the Satan imagery of Passion of the Christ with the Anakin vision, so Vader as the king of hell is fitting.

Vader being unable to kill Obi-Wan like he couldn't kill Luke is very compelling. Because he could have just let Obi-Wan burn, but he pushes him away from the fire. Maybe he still feels that Obi-Wan was the closest thing he had to a father, like Luke being his son stopped Vader from killing him. Which reminds me of an idea I've had and wished would be used since Rebels started. If I had my way with the character, Vader would reminisce and still have some fondness for Qui-Gon, his first proper father figure. Building on how Anakin in Clone Wars says to Obi-Wan, "You're no Qui-Gon Jinn." I think that would humanize Vader a lot, and show that there is a glimmer of light in him. I doubt they would do that, but it would also be interesting since Obi-Wan is constantly trying to connect with Qui-Gon.

I considered the comedy or trolling traits of TLJ Luke to be him getting older, since old people sometimes like to poke fun at younger and more inexperienced people, and taking on some of Yoda's characteristics from TESB. Yeah, they are probably wanting to steer a little away from TLJ Luke, but comparisons between Luke and Obi-Wan have already been made. They are pretty close to treading some similar ground. I personally liked the scenes of Luke relating what happened between him and Kylo, and the sadness Luke showed over it. I hope we get something similar with Obi-Wan, where he admits his mistakes. So far we have got his nightmare and some characters reminding him that Anakin died, and a saddened look from him.

Batman vs. Bane is a very good comparison. Vader seems to want to "break" Obi-Wan similar to how Bane "tortured Bruce's soul", if the line "Your pain has just begun" is anything to go by. Vader burns Obi-Wan, but leaves him alive, while Bane breaks Batman's back, but lets him live. Both are dragged away injured. The next fight between Vader and Obi-Wan has to have an iconic arena, or it will be a let down. The promotional/concept art showed them fighting on Mustafar, which I'm both hopeful about and afraid of. On one hand, it would be great to mirror the RotS fight, but on another, I don't know if it can in any way live up to that, and how they are going to realize Mustafar with a TV budget.

Unvarying is a good way to put it. Some scenes where he is actually given something to say work, like the talk with Leia about their families, but when he's just idling about it feels hollow. This is far away from the Obi-Wan who would flip his hair in the middle of a lightsaber duel. He always had a certain charm and swagger. Even in just that one battle with Grievous, he has so many great moments. Jumping in the middle of an army of battle droids, with a "Hello there." Saying "Oh, I don't think so" with a glimmer in his eyes. Strutting and tossing the blaster after shooting Grievous, saying "How uncivilized." He always had something snappy to say. I guess I just miss that.

I would have preferred that Obi-Wan and Vader didn't meet at all between RotS and ANH, because that is how Lucas certainly intended it. My idea was that they would battle telepathically over great distances. However, I think the dialogue in ANH can match with them meeting between the films. I think that twitter thread has sound reasoning. This is what I said over at TFN:


Leia meeting Obi-Wan before ANH is more problematic. In the message she inserts in R2-D2, she says that "Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars." That seems like a pretty formal and detached message for someone that is supposed to be a friend. If they had met a few years before that, wouldn't she mention that instead? There have been theories about why she would send a message worded like that, but they sound pretty far-fetched. The whole Leia situation stretches the limits of continuity, in my opinion.

I would, perhaps, in many respects, agree with you. Ironically (given some of my other stances on Disney), I can't locate the same level of cynicism that you seem to display for it. I appreciate you claiming you're "neutral", and I don't not take at your word; but I'm not quite as detached from my fanboy excitement for this as you seem to be, is basically what I'm saying. You know, this series grabs me a little, tugs on something inside. Even though I still recognise it's sort of this "factory" thing as you put it. Suddenly, I'm in awe of the droid factory and its mode of production??? Could be, Ingram. Could be. It's fun battling through the machinery, creating chaos, and trying to give myself an upgrade, like a giant, ungainly anime-Anakin robot arm. Pew-pew-pew. I have no idea what that metaphor is intended to mean. It's just: even commercial shittery can be fun. 

What you lament, I think, is the loss of the personal. Before, the mad tech-auteur, yet coolly composed business-man/anthropologist, George Walton Lucas was in charge of it all. He decided what was in the frame, what was out of it. What lived, what died (or was consigned to the fringes). He defined the look, feel, flow, and velocity of the films, and the overall climate and comportment of very franchise itself, top to bottom. Even if he agreed to things he wasn't keen on in the "Expanded Universe", he was the one agreeing to let those things slide. The games, the books, the comics, the toys, everything that was Star Wars then, versus what is Star Wars now, was all in orbit of his genius (I guess it still is), obeying his command (well, broadly speaking: "You mean it controls my actions?" / "Partially. But it also obeys your commands."). 

Now it's all tightly curated and controlled 'n' shit. There is no imagination, only repurposing. Star Wars is not what it once was. Disney+ is full of glossy, repetitive content. There is no interest in the artistic good.


Back to the series:



Does Anakin even remember Qui-Gon Jinn? He never talks about him in the prequels after his death (Episodes II and III), and by the time he confronts Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he seems to blame all Jedi equally for turning on him. Qui-Gon would probably be responsible, in his mind, for convincing him to leave his mother behind in slavery, thereby precipitating the events of AOTC and his mother's capture and torture at the hands of the Tuskens -- and Anakin's own fall to the Dark Side (which, in a Gollum-esque way, he both loves and hates). I don't think Anakin ever gained a strong sense of who Qui-Gon was and was probably thrown by the Jedi Council's rejection of him, even though Qui-Gon insisted he would train Anakin personally (but was denied). Qui-Gon was just some wacky hippie who never challenged the orthodoxy of the Jedi directly -- never countered the poison and lies of the Jedi as Anakin thinks he did. I just think it would maybe be a little out of character for Anakin/Vader to use that taunt against Obi-Wan. It would imply a certain fondness for Qui-Gon in Anakin's mind, but that would require him making exceptions when thinking back to his experiences with the Jedi of the PT, which I doubt he is willing to do. 


Oh, yeah. In poking fun at Rey, Luke is really castigating his earlier self, back when he was wet behind the ears and very "green" to the ways of the world, unlike Leia. He loathes his earlier ignorance and how sentimental it made him: how soft and misguided he became. That's why he's really hiding from himself on the island above all else. He blames himself, but above all, secretly fears he was never good enough to become a Jedi in the first place. It's a mid-life crisis mixed with impostor syndrome. And his release-valve is to pretend the Jedi as a whole are fundamentally flawed and need to go. It's a pretty complex characterisation.

In the Obi-Wan series, we are getting something similar, yet not entirely the same. Obi-Wan obviously feels guilty and responsible, and like Luke, is living a contradiction. On the one hand, he protests to Owen that when the time is right, Luke must be trained. Yet he tells that other Jedi to get lost and go lead a normal life. He says he's protecting Luke, but initially refuses to go save Leia. His old life is dead and buried to him, but he is haunted by flashbacks and calls on Qui-Gon for guidance. He insists he's just "Ben", but shows relief and happiness when he sees a marking indicating that Quinlan Vos is still alive and shepherding people to safety. 

On the other hand, he already said to Anakin's face that he failed him on Mustafar. He still carries that burden. And, of course, in ROTJ, he tells Luke he thought he could train Anakin as well as Yoda, but he was wrong (and in a cut line of dialogue, he says, "My pride has had terrible consequences for the galaxy."). The series is clearly working with those pieces, but a lot of it is subtextual. Even Obi-Wan starting off processing meat has a certain symbolism to it. Anakin basically became a fried piece of meat on Mustafar. And he turned into Vader because of death by a thousand cuts. By his flesh becoming eviscerated, Anakin also became much weaker in the Force, much less than he could have been, as Lucas has said. Obi-Wan as butcher, cutter, despoiler of midi-chlorian-imbued flesh: turning luminosity into flesh for a pittance every day. 


That's right. Bane is even blatantly the most Darth Vader-ish villain of the Nolan trilogy. And a dark-hearted version of Qui-Gon Jinn haunts Bruce in the pit. Proof that Liam will appear in Obi-Wan? I think Mustafar could be realised with a TV budget, but it depends what they do. Roiling lava across a drawn-out hellscape is out of the question, I think, and would only dampen the singularity of their duel in ROTS. However, they could duel in a "lesser" part of Mustafar, in a facility somewhere, which wouldn't blow their budget. It could be reminiscent of the Cloud City duel between Luke and Vader (and would kinda make sense, in a rhythmic sense, as "Encounter No. 2").


It's pretty bold that they've dropped all that reliance on punning. This is Obi-Wan without his swagger. People are hyper-familiar with that version of Obi-Wan, and the makers are obviously aware of Obi-Wan's Meme Lord presence online the past half-decade. In fact, that very crystallisation of Obi-Wan as a cool, swaggering baddass is probably, in large part, what got the project greenlit in the first place. Maybe they are running the risk of turning Obi-Wan into a bland, damp soul. However, there is a pleasing steadiness and underrated intricacy to Ewan's performance here, and we will probably see Obi-Wan rediscover some of his underlying mischievousness and lust for life toward the end of the series.