Obi-Wan Kenobi series: speculation

Not gonna lie, the bad guys, especially the lizard guy, chasing Leia in the woods, reminded me of the putties from Power Rangers. Took me out of it for a few moments.

To Ingram:


LMAO. To steal a phrase from this whole discussion: Not gonna lie, this opening to your response perfectly encapsulates one-half of how I feel.


Hey, man. Someone musta got paid to do that and felt mighty proud of themselves afterward. Yeah, it's a bit... YouTube-gauche, but I went with it. Ironically, YouTube is where the prequels used to go to get slayed, but it's also the YouTube generation that has resuscitated the prequels and restored some semblance of prestige to them in recent years. So it's all a bit Force of Others meta-y to see them compressed into your standard Clone Wars/Fall Of Anakin/Rise Of Palpatine montage like that.

A more intelligent approach might have served the series better, though, like the abstract "Vader's breathing" tone poem for AOTC.

As it is, yeah: a touch cookie-cutter.


I didn't quite get the meaning behind this brief overture. Did some of those Jedi kids become Inquisitors? Is there a theme of "Lost Jedi" coming up in the show? It feels too specific to be put there at random just to denote Obi-Wan's fall to Earth Tatooine.


Also: Couldn't they detect the mass slaughter going on around them? Or is it meant to symbolise Obi-Wan's naivete in ROTS when he sees the downed Younglings but is aghast: "Who? Who could have done this?"


Ouch. Haven't seen it. My reference point would be old Star Wars video games like "Jedi Knight: Dark Forces II". That game had lots of street scenes in it kinda like that. I was mildly thinking more of a Bond film, the "Mission Impossible" series, or sundry other "sneaking through exotic streets with kid in-tow" film sequences.


LOL. I wasn't expecting prequel-levels of imagination or execution, so I wasn't really let down. Maybe I'm giving this thing more of a pass because it's Disney TV-streaming Star Wars, not Lucas Silver Screen Star Wars. I haven't really seen many out-there examples of worldbuilding on TV. Maybe the underrated "Farscape" -- anyone here used to watch that? And, I guess, Star Trek, at its best, had some fantastic production design, when they pushed the boat out and spent more money or took more time on something. 

I notice a little bit of a motif here. A moderate ignorance of other shows and movies, in my case, perhaps enables me to be more forgiving of a slightly underwhelming experience, which some of you guys are reporting. For instance, because I've never seen "The Mandalorian" or the other Disney Star Wars shows (I've seen clips), I didn't find Obi-Wan Kenobi to be a safe, fugly letdown. Of course, I was sometimes comparing it to the prequels -- but yeah, few things can really withstand that kind of comparison.

To me, the show looked very well-lit, well-composed, well-edited, and (so far) has a warm, pastel-y, vaguely mystical (or Disney fantastical) quality about it; while being typically grounded and fairly TV-ish in other respects. Some shots on Alderaan, like when Bail was talking with Leia, looked like something straight from a concept painting (that's a pro, yo). And while Tatooine was more anonymous here than in the Saga films, lacking whimsy and playfulness, it still felt like I was watching Obi-Wan on that iconic planet. Daiyu, on the other hand, I kinda only liked when they were running on the rooftops -- e.g., when Reva was noticing that exchange of laser fire from a distance, that was a stunning shot.


Yeah, you might need it! Very precocious and plucky; to a point of near-overkill. But that little actress is so good. I do think, however, that otherworldly understatement is not really Disney's forte. I completely get the broader criticism I think you're making. Still, Leia has made this show for me, so far -- along with the viciousness of Reva and the quiet, brooding poise of McGregor's Obi-Wan. 


I disagree with you here. Without his listlessness, we don't really appreciate the comeback he makes when he agrees to going on the mission. Also, you can't really drop a viewer straight into Obi-Wan strolling up to the transport ship, lightsaber clipped to his belt, without first showing his "normal life" on Tatooine. There has to be some build-up. 

Of course, I'm taking you literally and I know you're not being especially literal here. I get the rhetorical cut of your jib. Let's just see Obi-Wan being Obi-Wan, goddamnfuckingDisney. But I love seeing him as simply "Ben" first. Yes, even though the scenes might not, on the surface, add a great deal to our understanding of Kenobi, I think they actually just might, if we study them a bit harder and contrast them with the end of the series (which we haven't seen yet, it's fair to add).


I liked how there was a slight bricolage quality. Some more classical Star Wars-sounding stuff, mixed in with more modern, minimal stylings. Kinda works for Star Wars TV, I think. And yes, John Williams composed a new theme for Obi-Wan. And it's good. Though not as hummable as his earlier work.


She's a loose cannon. Raw and volatile beneath a veneer of professionalism. A bit like Kylo, but less tantrum-prone. Actually quite scary. But I think they have to flesh out why capturing Obi-Wan means so much to her, since this clearly puts her at odds with the other Inquisitors, and she kills her daddy-boss over it. 

To darkspine:


Thanks for that, DS. I actually read that's how they do it on the other shows last night. Maybe it's a shame they didn't adopt the Mandalorian/Book Of Boba approach for all the shows, but I can live with the classic text. Brings the Star Wars feels every time.


Yeah, I don't love the show without reservation. But frankly, that has probably applied to all Star Wars things in my life, including (for a while) the prequels. Still the prequels: I wish Lucas had included some of those deleted scenes!


Ah, yes. The PT is the "Chosen One" here and it's about time!!! I'm sure we all got a kick out of the flashbacks just for that. Move over, OT fetishists, there's a new object of adoration in town.


I almost get the impression, at this point, every new Star Wars director wants to make their thing with an "Earthen" feel, like they are anointing it, or seeking the approval of cosmic Ewok gods or something, so that a bolt of lightning comes down from heaven -- literally thunderous applause -- that this is Star Wars.

Here, however, I think we have to let them off a little bit. Alderaan, a pristine natural environment symbiotically paired with gleaming, Flash Gordon-esque technology, is gorgeous, and near-enough exactly how George would have wanted it, I think. While Tatooine is naturally the hideout of Obi-Wan and infuses the entire mythos of Star Wars with those always-welcome "Dune" vibes. 

In this case, what I'm saying is, the "canon" of the Lucas Saga has mandated these choices. With the Sequel Trilogy, even the other spinoff shows, they aren't limited by those particular story elements, but they chose to emulate the "Western" look of the OT anyway. That's a critical difference, in my opinion.

I agree with you, on the other hand, that there is a regressive mundanity to some of the design and character elements, and that what Disney persistently miss is that Star Wars was very alien- and droid-rich under Lucas. Now it's more of a cold, knowable "human" universe. The sequel movies started a very unfortunate trend here. A trend that can be traced back to all those media pundits generating clicks from calling many of the alien characters in the PT "racist caricatures". Even this new series can't escape that Original Sin on the part of the media and Disney's initial response to it (via the Sequel Trilogy).


Acting/casting is a big win in this series so far. But then, I've pretty much always thought that about Star Wars, to be honest. It sure feels good, however, to see those prequel actor names in the end credits.


One thing I really love here is that Leia's character is getting a bit more fleshed out. She's very close to a tearaway child, and they've already spun some gold from it, in terms of her paternal relationships with Bail and Obi-Wan. Although, yet again, when I think of it, a mother-daughter relationship is getting almost no focus, by comparison. Star Wars keeps doing these father-son, father-daughter things, like women still don't count or something. At least there was Shmi and Anakin in Episode I. But I liked Breha in this, too. Good actress and she looks, well, ideal. Just as Jimmy Smits does. The costuming, hair, and makeup are all damn perfect.

I can totally believe in this depiction of Alderaan and it makes for a very evocative contrast with the harsh, dust-bowl world of Tatooine. Really emphasises the differences in the upbringings of the Skywalker twins -- and the choice to split them, which was made official, of course, in ROTS. When Bail says he and his wife "have always dreamed of adopting a baby girl", there's so much subtext to it. So much there. Just a single line. But it explains why Leia seems to be getting away with a lot at home, as well as Bail's very patient and tender conversations with her. This aspect sold me instantly! 

Contrast it, too, with the rather shitty way Owen seems to treat Luke in ANH. Luke is the loyal farmhand growing sick of his uncle's dictates, rebelling in subtle ways, mostly by ways of complaining and hanging around with a bunch of friends who (in the deleted scenes) seem to see him as something of a joke. I guess this would now be echoed with the narcissistic, bullying attitude of Leia's cousin. The Skywalker twins both had their struggles. But Leia grew up pampered, while Luke was living in the dirt. In another irony, it's Leia who is kidnapped from the "paradise" of Alderaan, while the loose impression has always been that Luke was in far more danger (from Tuskens, smugglers, etc.) on the harsh, lawless world of Tatooine. Also, Obi-Wan is blocked from having direct contact with Luke, while his rescue mission of Leia puts him in direct contact with her. And I think it's in the cargo/harbour scene, despite hearing the shocking news that Anakin still lives, that he sees hope embodied in Leia's feisty attitude. This Anakin-Padme duality seems key to Obi-Wan's reawakening. It's even fitting of the sort of words Lucas used when describing the point of the OT (vis-a-vis the PT): i.e., that children teach adults compassion.


Probably. The series does need to move into heavier territory now. While it has been enjoyable so far, I hope these first two episodes have merely set the scene for something slightly grander.


Definitely a good case of Obi-Wan's former life coming back to haunt him. Interesting that he sees an old clone and then hears about Anakin living on Daiyu, as well as rescuing and escorting Leia to safety on the same planet. As soon as he leaves Tatooine, that "larger world" starts coming back into focus. 

To Seeker:


Another thing that stood out in the Obi-Wan Kenobi series version of Order 66 is that the Jedi Temple is all gleaming and apparently made of marble. That was never the way it was shown in the prequels. It looks too palatial. I don't think GL wanted anyone to mistake the Jedi Temple or any part of Coruscant for Naboo. Just weird.

Of course, we can interpret the opening scene as a dream sequence, in which someone -- Obi-Wan??? -- is dreaming of the lost grandeur of the Republic and maybe he remembers the Jedi Temple being shinier and more pristine than it actually was. I dunno.  



Yeah, it's like this series is trying to straddle two worlds and wants to be seen as a legitimate continuation of the prequels, despite realistically knowing it's a Disney thing and not even a "saga" film. It's like a character study of a lesser (but still important) character in a Shakespeare play, seeking to incant the formalism of The Bard but still being separate. I think it's basically a love letter to George Lucas and his choices, but the prequel ones as much as the OT ones.


I think maybe the Order 66 scene came off as Disney cosplay, unfortunately. I'm not even sure a three-dimensional, flashy recreation of the Jedi Temple slaughter is even all that appropriate. Treating it like a VR game. It sort of saps the situation of its dark gravity and power. Nevertheless, I still enjoyed the opening, and it's maybe some kind of preview of Obi-Wan escorting Leia and some part of him "dying", and then being re-born as Obi-Wan Kenobi, as the series title implies. 


Leia being chased and captured on Alderaan was a bit odd. Stamp touched on it. Leia was running pretty slowly and yet the bad guys struggled to catch her (well, until they did)? It strained credulity. I think maybe the idea was to imply that Leia was smart and fleet-footed (possibly even using the Force a tad), and these were simple goons stumbling on twigs and so forth, but it didn't come across very well and just looked awkward. Luckily, it didn't go on for too long. It is kind of contrasted later with Bail's sudden assertion to Obi-Wan that Leia is bound for Daiyu. No bumbling there, no exposition: Bail simply knows for whatever reason that that's where his daughter is being taken. 

The other things you cite didn't strike me as big issues, but seeing that other Jedi on Tatooine, beseeching Obi-Wan's help, first hit me as a little odd and world-shrinking. Just how many Jedi survived the purge, and how secret is Obi-Wan's hideout, if another Jedi can randomly find him in the same patch of desert on a remote world in the Outer Rim? Of course, it works symbolically: Here is another former Jedi, much like Obi-Wan himself, calling out to Obi-Wan, and all Obi-Wan can do is reject him: reject his past. Just like, at the end of TROS, that old lady randomly appears at the Lars homestead and asks Rey who she is, cueing up the whole "I'm Rey Skywalker" meme. I think the Disney productions do sometimes put symbolism ahead of "realism" (for want of a better word). At the end of the first episode, for example, Obi-Wan heads toward the ship to leave Tatooine and gives the camera a small but clear flash of his lightsaber -- I mean, realistically, would Obi-Wan really risk other people seeing it like that?  

I didn't mind Leia's asshole relations. Kids can be jerks, and Anakin's kid-friends mocked his podracer aspirations. It probably did feel weird seeing that at first, though. Like: "Oh, I thought this was an elevated society, and you wouldn't have slimeball kids speaking to one another like that." But then I slapped myself: "Yeah, and pigs might fly."

Now, as for "The Mandalorian" comparison, while I haven't seen a full episode, I have seen clips, and I don't know what makes this series inferior to that one. Then again, maybe I should revisit those clips (or better yet: just watch the damn series, already). Maybe I'm missing something. This series, to me, has certainly had some good visuals so far: The haunting close-ups on Obi-Wan's face. The beautiful wide shot of Bail talking with Leia on Alderaan. The realisation of Alderaan itself. Reva's parkour maneuvers on Daiyu. Even the repeat shots of Obi-Wan taking that transport on Tatooine back home to his cave-lair. Plus the look of the actors. One of the best "special effects" in the series is Ewan's complexion. Not sure if another Star Wars television series can boast of anything that good.


Ah, eopie!!! Why did I call it a kaadu earlier? I've got a heart full of Naboo. To be honest, Rey's little "day in the life of" tone poem at the start of TFA, probably was done better, if only for the music. But the slightly more "social realist" approach in Kenobi is more pleasing to me. Seeing Obi-Wan trying to blend in with the crowd, because he's trying to be one of the crowd, is more compelling -- and maybe a tad more believable. At least Obi-Wan technically has work colleagues. People he sees everyday. And who would ever believe he was once a Jedi? Not merely a Jedi, but a Jedi Master who had a seat on the Jedi Council, and who trained Anakin Skywalker into the bargain. He's doing such a great job of hiding away, he's actually forgotten what he's still capable of. There's something pretty poignant about that. 


The "father figure" leading his "daughter" (or "granddaughter") to safety is an old storytelling trope (it's even, sort of, the plot of the original film). But yes, "The Mandalorian" seems to have been a big influence. Wasn't it Dave Filoni or Jon Favreau who advised them to ditch the whole Darth Maul concept and do something more in the vein of their show(s)? I didn't see this plot element coming, mind you. Everyone probably had Obi-Wan/Luke blinders on, which is how they were able to surprise us with this. 


The marketing hook is obvious, yet I don't have a problem with Leia and her droid. It's done in such an-an... organic (see what I did there?), disarming way, I instantly believe it. We do have to remind ourselves how limited GL was with technology (and what a pathetically low budget he had) on the original film. Even design aesthetics have come on since the era of Apple. This is a shrewd reimagining of Star Wars and the original backstory circa 2020. 


Re: "Fake Jedi": That's what I was alluding to when I called his character a TV contrivance. You wouldn't see him in the feature films (not Lucas Star Wars, anyway). I was reading this BBC review of the show last night and this is what is said: 


This is where you get that inevitable drift from Lucas into specious territory. There are borderline moments, though, even from George himself. What about Obi-Wan waving that bar patron away in AOTC? The dialogue there is very SNL-like. Funny, but a bit fourth-wall-breaking. 

In this character's defence, I will say that there is this kind of meta-narrative that's about making the Jedi real again and toying with different "kinds" of Jedi in the process. The Inquisitors are basically fallen Jedi who use the twisted rationalisation that "Jedi hunt themselves". Obi-Wan is a Jedi, but denies being one. Anakin was once a Jedi, but is now a Sith Lord and "more machine than man" as Obi-Wan is soon to discover. Nanjiani's character (it's good to see Pakistani and Indian actors in Star Wars) is sort of a parodic version of Anakin in that he's not a Jedi, just a man using parlour tricks, and relying on machinery to trick people out of their credits. But he turns out to have heroic, Jedi-like traits at the end; even if he's no match for Reva's dark mind-reading abilities.

It gives some measure of what has been lost since the Jedi were exterminated, but also serves to remind that examples of the Jedi flame live on. Think about it. Haja is a man who has actually been inspired by the Jedi, or the myth of the Jedi, and pretends to be one, just to fleece people of money. He's neither good nor bad, but morally grey, in love with the idea of pulling scams, enjoying life for the hustle: a bit like Watto. But with the Jedi as his actual model, he has unconsciously absorbed some of their actual traits and underlying philosophy. Or maybe it's a chicken-and-egg situation. Maybe he decided to play-act at being a Jedi because he has an underlying desire to do good, but doesn't see how to be especially virtuous in a corrupt, fallen universe. However, when he encounters Obi-Wan, he rises to the occasion and finally validates his roleplaying, finding the courage to turn his play-acting into a moment of ballsy resistance to Reva and buy Obi-Wan, this total stranger, critical time. 

In the end, it's clear (unless there's more to come of Haja) that he just wanted to be seen. His child-like sense of gratefulness when Obi-Wan remembers his name is a terrific moment. Obi-Wan has quietly validated his existence, despite calling him sewer trash earlier (in an interesting mirror of The Grand Inquisitor deriding Reva). Haja comes good and decides to help a desperate stranger, a former Jedi, no less, just because it's the right thing to do. Haja redeems himself by standing up to the most psychotic character in the show. He may not quite know what Reva is capable of, but he must know she's bad news and he's not likely to come off well from the encounter, but he does it anyway. The true spirit of the Jedi lives on. That's the real essence and beauty of this show, I think.

A couple things that i relate to in this show. How many of us on this message board are blending in with society, working menial jobs, being disrespected by buffoonish ignorant bosses, hiding our true identities, shutting ourselves off from the Force, because the Empire already won?

The other is this fake Jedi, which i suppose is a mirror of that. A cynic and an imposter who makes a pretty penny. A profession where you make money from people who think you're something that you're not, based on a title or a uniform. How many of us have jobs like that? I must admit, I haven't found a way to monetize it, but I will admit to being a cynic and imposter in many ways. I even fancy myself a Jedi until someone comes along and reaches into my mind and steals my memory. This fake Jedi thought his sense of humor was strength ("That's not magnets"), but then afterwards he immediately appears to be utterly violated. I think with that feeling of being mind-raped must have come with the revelation that he is not strong-minded at all, but very weak.

Good thoughts. I'll respond more later. Ironically, my menial job is why I'm out of time now.

And yes, this part of the show is absolutely resonant.

The shininess of the Jedi Temple caught my eye too. Perhaps it is Reva's dream of her Jedi past, remembering them as high and mighty living in an ivory tower. The scene does have a dream or nightmare-like quality, going from serene practice to being hunted by faceless clones all of a sudden. The death of a parent figure. It brought to mind some nightmares I used to have as a kid.

I liked the dialogue between the hunted Jedi and Obi-Wan. "Live a normal life" hit me in the feels. We are far away from the fun speeder antics of Obi and Ani, when both were at the top of their game as Jedi. This is a different Obi-Wan, a dejected Obi-Wan. At first I thought the scene of the employer bullying the meat cutter was pointless, but like with the other Jedi, it was to show that Obi-Wan doesn't have it in him to help people anymore. The death of the Jedi and Obi-Wan's reaction were great. Then how that led to Bail imploring Obi-Wan to go on "One last fight" for Leia and then digging up the lighsabers was epic. I noticed a similarity with Obi-Wan's lightsaber reveal and Leia realizing that he's a Jedi to Anakin spotting Qui-Gon's lightsaber. The daughter is much like the father. Neither can be fooled by the Jedi in disguise.





The relatives of Leia seemed like people from Canto Bight. Maybe they are from there. I didn't mind them that much, but they were a little on the nose. They led to one of the best scenes which was the talk with Bail and Leia, though, so I guess they served their purpose.

Tatooine looks fine, though I have noticed even in the previous shows that they had trouble making the desert look as expansive as real Tunisia in the films. Alderaan and Daiyu looked good, but something about the way everything is presented seems a little flat compared to The Mandalorian and certain episodes of Book of Boba Fett. Maybe it's the way it's shot. Here's a couple vistas that feel bigger and more real to me:




I'm not sure if Dave Filoni and Jon Favreau had a hand in steering them away from the initial Maul ideas. Deborah Chow did say that she used Filoni as a resource when it came to his knowledge of all things Star Wars. I think I read that it was Kathleen Kennedy who thought the initial ideas for the series were "too dark" and ordered the changes.

That's a very good perspective on Haja. Actually, at first he might have been one of my least favorite aspects of the series so far, but the more I think about it, he's becoming one of my favorites. I was so ready to scream "That's not how mind tricks work!", before it was revealed that he was a fraud. I like that they did something different and unexpected with Star Wars for once. In that way, he's very much like a Lucas idea. He reminds me a bit of Jar Jar, especially in one episode of TCW, a bumbling comedic character who becomes heroic at the end. There is an uncynical purity to them both, which modern audiences may balk at.

I'm doing a third watchthrough of these episodes (though I have watched the opening recap and Order 66 scene more than that already), and coming back with more to say.

Yeah, the hologram message is obviously meant for Obi-Wan, but it's worded in a way that if someone else sees it, they know why it needs to get to Obi-Wan. I mean, it's exposition anyway. "Years ago you served my father in the Clone Wars." "Who? I did? Oh right, thanks for reminding me."