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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 20, 2022 2:14:41 GMT
Also, for as many times as he's moaned about greenscreen, he's probably expressed his affection and admiration for Sir Alec Guinness, just as he does in that clip. Just as it grinds to hear him painting the prequels as a slog to make, and a disappointment due to the backlash, it warms the heart to hear him constantly speaking with reverence toward AG -- perhaps, when all else failed, doing right by an iconic actor Ewan holds in high regard became his motivation, his handhold.
On the other hand, there's his passive-aggressive "they were for children, anyway" perspective that is dull, cliched, and an ignominious half-truth. Or trite. It's just too much of an evasion and a refusal to speak of the PT's strong storytelling qualities to proclaim the movies were for children; like there is nothing for adults to connect with or be moved by. He never qualifies that remark any time I've heard him make it (which must be four or five times now and counting). Does Ewan not get Star Wars? He kind of comes off as obtuse and somehow slightly above the whole thing. Like he's only still doing it and lowering himself to this simplistic "for kids" franchise in memory of his childhood.
Yeah, I would much prefer him to speak about the prequels on a more intellectual level. He's admitted elsewhere that he thinks ROTS is "really good", so why not that one at least? Granted, these short interview formats aren't ideal, but I'd still like to see some flashes of it.
There is way too much emphasis, again and again, on reminding everyone about about the ordeal with bluescreen/greenscreen in Episodes I-III. Someone at the PR at Lucasfilm - how I wish it were me - needs to tap him on the shoulder, and say "Ewan, a little less on the greenscreen complaints, please. We can talk all about the difficulties on the prequels at another date, but for now you've only got 5 minutes on each junkets, and we need some positive energy. When asked about the PT, focus on the benefits, the memorable experiences."
Perhaps it is too much to ask McGregor to geek out like a Sam Witwer would, very few actors are real nerds. But he can at least shut up about greenscreen. Seriously!
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Post by Cryogenic on May 20, 2022 2:28:10 GMT
I agree that writing and overall vision are more important, ultimately. I'm just saying this thing represents an improvement, of sorts. Like, a better version, in theory, of what Disney/LFL has attempted before. That's not to say it'll be any good. Even their shitty "Volume" technology doesn't impress me much. Video footage, including pre-rendered material, on a giant wrap-around LED screen. So fucking what?! Just tell a compelling story. Hayden and Natalie actually went to Italy, you plebs!! -- Lake frickin' Como. Who cares about some overpaid assholes waving glowsticks around on a tiny smattering of sand in front of a bright video screen?!!! That's so dumb. And remember: ROTS had an enormous miniature built to simulate flowing lava. It wasn't all done on computers or faked in the background. Goddamn assholes!!!! When Cryo goes big instead of home. Also, I won't deny a slight pang of paranoia concerning other things of mine you may have locked away in a filing cabinet. Those links we're like meeting a Timecop-style past version of myself. LOL! Thank you for the praise. I have some of your stuff locked away, but not necessarily because it's your stuff. Some of it just happens to be old threads where you posted. Nevertheless, an Ingram post is a pretty unique thing. In the case of the IMDb post, that was a deliberate save. Remember that series of "Appreciation" threads you did? You clearly expended effort on them. Your TFN post, believe it or not, I found through Googling. I remember you talking about that same line of Obi-Wan's a few times. Wasn't hard to find an example. On a sidenote, I'll afford at least one point for casting an actual black actress instead of, ya know, the fashionable type with skin tones 1.7 shade darker than Greek. And hate me for objectifying, but, Moses Ingram is a fine-ass sista. Just sayin'. I don't really see how skin tone, per se, determines one's "actual" degree of blackness. It's cool that you like her, of course. Personally, I think she has a relatively moderate skin tone. Darker than yours and mine, no doubt, but far from the darkest out there. What Hollywood seems to have more of a problem with is certain kinds of dress and hairstyles. There's still plenty of stereotyping and Procrustean standards out there that don't do justice to the psychological complexity and cultural richness of humans. Or, yes, sadly, the wide-ranging phenotypic and biological differences out there. Star Wars talks a good game about the Force being in everything and everyone, but it can't always break out of classical/archaic ways of thinking. Still, yeah, maybe this is progress of a kind. |
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Post by Ingram on May 20, 2022 2:59:21 GMT
On a sidenote, I'll afford at least one point for casting an actual black actress instead of, ya know, the fashionable type with skin tones 1.7 shade darker than Greek. And hate me for objectifying, but, Moses Ingram is a fine-ass sista. Just sayin'. I don't really see how skin tone, per se, determines one's "actual" degree of blackness. That might've come off wrong. I didn't mean it as a slant against my ex-girlfriend Tessa Thompson. I was just referring to earthier around-the-way ebony feminine that, particularly with pop-fantasy entertainment, Hollywood will oft quietly sidestep in favor of something technically African but generically Revlon. And MI just looks like an attractive woman I'd strike it up with down at the laundromat. The ex claim is dubious. |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 20, 2022 2:59:38 GMT
Also, for as many times as he's moaned about greenscreen, he's probably expressed his affection and admiration for Sir Alec Guinness, just as he does in that clip. Just as it grinds to hear him painting the prequels as a slog to make, and a disappointment due to the backlash, it warms the heart to hear him constantly speaking with reverence toward AG -- perhaps, when all else failed, doing right by an iconic actor Ewan holds in high regard became his motivation, his handhold.
On the other hand, there's his passive-aggressive "they were for children, anyway" perspective that is dull, cliched, and an ignominious half-truth. Or trite. It's just too much of an evasion and a refusal to speak of the PT's strong storytelling qualities to proclaim the movies were for children; like there is nothing for adults to connect with or be moved by. He never qualifies that remark any time I've heard him make it (which must be four or five times now and counting). Does Ewan not get Star Wars? He kind of comes off as obtuse and somehow slightly above the whole thing. Like he's only still doing it and lowering himself to this simplistic "for kids" franchise in memory of his childhood. Yeah, I would much prefer him to speak about the prequels on a more intellectual level. He's admitted elsewhere that he thinks ROTS is "really good", so why not that one at least? Granted, these short interview formats aren't ideal, but I'd still like to see some flashes of it. He appears unwilling or unable to intellectualise the PT in any concrete sense. Perhaps he has always been weary of the content? It's a little difficult to understand he finds it that hard to speak positively of the storytelling and basic themes.
Yep. It can just be read as another indictment of Lucasfilm. That is: No-one appears to have any great love of the PT, so they don't see any problem with Ewan stealing that limited time to complain and dredge up his personal history with them. It also vaguely implies this miniseries is for slightly older fans. Like the prequels were something different, something inferior, something for the kiddies. But this, this is the adult stuff; or the young-adult stuff, at any rate.
He seems to give the same response everywhere, no matter who he's talking to. I'd love to see what he'd say in a recorded conversation with George Lucas. Imagine a lengthy roundtable reminisce with George and major prequel stars/crew for the 20th anniversary of ROTS. I'd love to watch that.
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Post by Samnz on May 20, 2022 6:28:57 GMT
I'd assume Ewan doesn't "get Star Wars" the way others (Ian, Hayden) do. I've also come to believe that Ewan didn't really get to blend in and go well with George's kind of personality and working style. I've yet to hear him at least saying he enjoyed working with George Lucas, which is something everybody (Liam, Natalie, Hayden, Christopher Lee, Sam Jackson etc.) except Terrence Stamp (and Ewan, I think) did. I mean, they seem the have pretty different personalites and while George was probably just happy with Ewan's performence, Ewan seems to be the kind of guy that needs attention in a way of getting feedback and might have mistaken George's calm persona and simple satisfaction with his performance for "being more interested in technology and effects". Just my speculation, but there is a notable difference in every word that Hayden and Ewan, directly compared with each other, speak about Star Wars, Lucas and both their experience with and view of the films they made.
All of that reminds me of what Sam Jackson once said when asked to compare Quentin Tarantino with George Lucas:
As actors, I think Ewan needs the "storm" while Hayden prefers to stay within the calm.
Btw, that German TV show is embarassing. Please don't judge me.
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jtn90
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Post by jtn90 on May 20, 2022 10:01:42 GMT
The only time I recall Ewan mentioning George recently is when talking about Alec Guiness about how he shaped the character of Obi Wan with George, and his more positive view of the use of technology mentioned here.
I recall seeing a few seconds of the BTS of epsiode III, I think it was the filming of the battle of Mustafar, where Ewan chases George as if he was gonna give hima bear hug, and ends climbing on his back, you must have trust that he will not react in a bad way to do that, so I don't think he has anything againts George on a personal level,it would be more of a professional level as said here, but is true that, as the creator of Star Wars and the guy who casted him. it would be nice if Ewan talked more about working with George, althought I prefer him not talking about anything over trash talking.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 20, 2022 21:46:31 GMT
I can confirm that McGregor did in fact watch some of The Clone Wars. He mentioned it himself in an interview where he described his preparation, especially for getting back the Obi-Wan voice.
Source: SFX magazine (Jun 2022) McGregor gets asked some proper questions here. We get a more intellectually-orientated question revolving around Anakin's fall.
Non-gameshow part of the German TV interview. Hayden gets asked about his farm.
We have an lukewarm, mealy-mouthed, half-hearted nonsense of an attempt to be generous to the Prequels and George Lucas in this following piece in Time magazine. I hope you have the heavy artillery on you Cryogenic , there's a litter of crap to debunk. It's one thing to write an article critiquing the films, it's another to be write such a dishonest article like this, where you're doing no forgiving whatsoever.
This really is a dumpster fire, if ever I've read one in the past year. I can, however, thankfully report people on Twitter are not pleased either.
It's time to forgive Hayden Christensen for the "Star Wars" prequels
Let's remind ourselves of Time was back in 2015 (December 7). Prequel bashing load of filth.
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Post by smittysgelato on May 21, 2022 0:32:08 GMT
I'm gonna put of my Cryo-Style-Roasting-Hat and say that it isn't Christensen that needs forgiveness, but the fans who treated him like shit.
That's usually how forgiveness works after all. The person who did something wrong is the one who is forgiven. Hayden did nothing wrong.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 21, 2022 1:11:19 GMT
I'm gonna put of my Cryo-Style-Roasting-Hat and say that it isn't Christensen that needs forgiveness, but the fans who treated him like shit.
And these snooty culture critics like the jackass who wrote the above rubbish in a major publication.
We cannot ignore this other group because it shows us a clear distinction between the prequel and sequel eras, and a point that rarely gets raised: that the press acted as cheerleaders for two of three films in Disney's trilogy, while they were the ones firing up the fanboys from the get-go in 1999.
Time and time again, I notice the press insisting that's its simply the same phenomenon of toxic fans cycling over again, but this is only half the truth. For one, there was barely any fan blowback towards TFA on its release, whist there clearly was for TPM. Secondly, Disney Lucasfilm and the filmmakers went to the trouble of attacking fans and accusing them of being politically-motivated, machinations that Lucas never stooped so low as to employ, despite them giving him far more abuse. The fact is that Lucas was able to take criticism like a man, while Disney PR couldn't, and actively provoked the worst in the fandom, giving us the Fandom Menace.
History doesn't repeat, it rhymes.
Also, newsflash, the press or media isn't sacred. Have you ever spent a minute watching Russia TV news? They can be villains every bit as much as heroes. So I'm sorry I will not apologise, and I will never seise to talk about how badly they behaved during the prequel era, goading the fandom into a position where Lucas would eventually sell his dear company. Publications like Time magazine have blood on their hands and they can think of nothing else than to to blame others for it, instead of acknowledging their own complicity.
So who needs to apologise? The OT fanboys and asshole critics/media outlets to Hayden Christensen, that's what.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 21, 2022 1:34:42 GMT
ArchdukeOfNaboo I'll respond to your last few posts in a bit, but I think you're dragging your own thread off-topic here. Better to port the last few over to another of your own threads in The Lucas Era section: Debunking anti-PT articles/videos
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Post by jppiper on May 21, 2022 2:01:44 GMT
I can confirm that McGregor did in fact watch some of The Clone Wars. He mentioned it himself in an interview where he described his preparation, especially for getting back the Obi-Wan voice.
Source: SFX magazine (Jun 2022) McGregor gets asked some proper questions here. We get a more intellectually-orientated question revolving around Anakin's fall.
Non-gameshow part of the German TV interview. Hayden gets asked about his farm.
We have an lukewarm, mealy-mouthed, half-hearted nonsense of an attempt to be generous to the Prequels and George Lucas in this following piece in Time magazine. I hope you have the heavy artillery on you Cryogenic , there's a litter of crap to debunk. It's one thing to write an article critiquing the films, it's another to be write such a dishonest article like this, where you're doing no forgiving whatsoever.
This really is a dumpster fire, if ever I've read one in the past year. I can, however, thankfully report people on Twitter are not pleased either.
It's time to forgive Hayden Christensen for the "Star Wars" prequels
Let's remind ourselves of Time was back in 2015 (December 7). Prequel bashing load of filth.
The Razzies are Crap! |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 21, 2022 2:37:37 GMT
Responses on Twitter: 527 Quote Tweets & 163 Likes = severely ratio-ed
Sorry, folks I gotta keep going. I'd like to record this huge wave of support, in case of deletions. I am so pissed with this article...
And a YouTube video on the article for good measure:
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 21, 2022 4:30:01 GMT
Debunking:
Just because you hear a rumour, doesn't make it true. This is not a positive way to start what's supposed to be an uplifting story.
Okay, so you put a lovely, rosy, headline out saying its time to "forgive" Christensen, and now you've immediately set a very negative tone. What are you playing at? Why are you being so dishonest? And if that wasn't enough, you proceed to remind us of peak prequel bashing season during the release of the first sequel in 2015. Do you not realise how out of place these bad memories are?
That smug "Well, yes" saids so much about you. We know we're in for a shitshow now.
We have plenty people born in the 1980s and 70s who loved the prequel trilogy too. They're in the majority in this forum, as far as I know. As for Space Jam, give me a break with that ludicrous analogy and your quackery about "objectivity".
The CGI was not gratuitous. It was pioneering for its time.
I don't need to squint. Those of us who do have eyesight problems can do fine with glasses. With our bare two eyes we witness countless things to marvel in the prequels. You do also realise that McGregor's Obi-Wan was also a crucial part of that duel? If you're going to cite one fighter on the light side, it would be him, or at least mention the two as fighting Maul together.
You also don't even know your memes. And I mean the very basic ones: It's "high ground", not "higher ground", which is incidently the name of a programme Hayden has starred in (were you secretly watching it lately?). Anakin never saids anything about "hating sand" either, he uses sand as a metaphor for his cruel upbringing on Tatoinne, in contrast with the happiness he feels on Naboo.
And here you are writing for a Democrat mouthpiece, and all you can give the most politically astute popular films of the last 20 years is a backhanded compliment? What a thankless brat, you are. You should be on your knees praising these films for their warning cry.
It hasn't even been 17 years. The discussions only started around 2015, as far as we know.
Aren't we suppose to be forgiving Christensen?! Here you are shoving the knife in him, and cowardly by quoting others instead of yourself. Why do I need to reminded of nonsense nerd culture like Razzies? Not only have you betrayed the purpose of your article, you're now rubbing salt into the wounds of prequelists.
I beggar to disagree on the romance. I thought it was wonderfully acted and directed in ROTS. You need to understand that the OT fanboys were never going to understand or accept any kind of love story in Lucas' prequels.
Why is it you repeatedly play this off as if you're some kind of omniscient observer, who doesn't need to lift her ass of the couch? Christensen doesn't need to be forgiven by absolutely anyone. On the contrary, it's snooty critics like you who need to be forgiven by him.
There is plenty of good acting in the prequels. Have you ever heard of Ian McDiarmid? His performance as Palpatine in ROTS is arguably the best of anyone in the entire saga.
There's little clunky about an hotheaded, anxious padowan Jedi. That was deliberate.
There is no "perhaps". It's obvious that he took the biggest hit of all the main cast, he was hesitant to return to the fanbase for a long time. And seeing as you cartwheel in race later in your article, where are your kind words for Ahmed Best, a black actor who played Jar Jar and who became so affected by the abuse, he considered suicide at one point? All you care about are minorities in your beloved sequels, you don't want to recognise them in the prequels.
And why are you doing so little to elaborate on that theme? You have been non-stop dunking on our beloved trilogy ever since you began with you dishonest, bait and switch headline.
Who do you think you are trying to tell us the cute story of the prequels being reclaimed? You are a prequel basher at heart, and are about as fit to the task as a vegan at a butcher shop.
Good?! You were threatening him with no forgiveness only a few paragraphs back. Who made you the master of absolution? You have proven yourself to be dishonest hack writer, whose all too happy to jump on board a cushy redemption story, only to consistently lampoon on the profiled person instead.
Are you ever forgiving, Eliana? Who are you to lecture others on toxicity when you've been incessantly ridiculing and mocking the prequels in this very article? You were suppose to be giving us an actor redemption story, for crying out loud. It is people like you who're the reason it took 17 years.
And targeting Christensen for his ethnicity? That's a rather low one, even for a hack like you. If that's a one way ticket to success, then please explain to me why didn't get many big roles in the 2010s.
Daisy Ridley got barely any backlash for TFA. Only in TROS did she come under the heat, and that's not only from fans, but from your buddies you call the critics too. As for Kelly Marie Tran, do you realise there's a video with over 1 million YouTube hits of Christensen defending her? No acknowledgement of that either, not the slightest word of what a wonderful gent this man is off-camera.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 21, 2022 10:45:55 GMT
They released a clip from the show:
And this is very interesting:
So that pretty much confirms that they are going for a "prestige" approach in this series, as both of those films she mentions were tailor made for the Oscars and other awards. From that clip alone, you can tell that the dialogue and acting style is a far cry from what Lucas describes his films as having:
I especially liked Joker, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that those films were an inspiration for the series, but I'm not sure that style would fit Star Wars. I have my worries, based on the rumors that the early ideas for the series were too dark and serious, that it will be too melancholic and heavy in comparison to the fairly light Lucas films. And doing a character study on a character that is essentially a mythic archetype may not gel with his portrayal in the films. I think Rogue One was right on the razor's edge when it came to balancing a classic Star Wars style with a more modern style of acting and tone. So if the series sticks to a similar tone, it may work.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 21, 2022 15:08:36 GMT
They released a clip from the show: Nice clip. Nothing really given away, of course. But this will hopefully be a satisfying series in its own right. From the article: www.ign.com/articles/obi-wan-kenobi-series-joker-logan-comparisonsAt least this seems to confirm that the show won't be an ensemble piece -- or, if it is, Obi-Wan is going to remain the focus. Unless, of course, she means that one or two characters get that treatment, and not Obi-Wan alone. She cites "Joker" and "Logan", but both of those are feature films, while this is a miniseries, so the latter remains a possibility. Maybe "Rogue One" was on the razor's edge, as you put it. However, I think this new series' departure from the Lucas/Saga films was already obvious in the trailers. If anything, it was "Rogue One" that laid that foundation. That film isn't especially faithful to the Saturday matinee serial aesthetic, either. It had many modern hallmarks, like shaky cam, grim dialogue, emphatic speechifying, even a sudden time-jump (after the opening sequence); and, of course, a burst of ultraviolence at the end (the Vader slaughter sequence). I think it'd be hard to keep the Saga style intact in these spinoff projects. Especially one centered around a single character. That's never been the Star Wars way. The main films are action-oriented, elliptical adventures: allegories. Of course, they are, in part, character studies, and certainly in whole (Anakin), but they're more about the macro-plot of a democracy becoming a dictatorship, and then that dictatorship being overthrown, than they are microscopic character examinations. That could, in effect, make them unreliable narratives -- stories where certain simplifications and exaggerations take place as a natural consequence of the format. I think a closer, more grounded approach is needed here. It's like this is the real Obi-Wan (Ben), and his adventures in the Saga films are the fantasy. The Saga films are a mythologised record of his activities and the people he interacted with. This series, by contrast, is perhaps trying to bring us closer to "who" Obi-Wan is in (pseudo) reality. He was involved in a whole lot of shit in his past, but that is the past (the mythical, unknowable past) and this is the present: Obi-Wan Now. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 21, 2022 15:19:06 GMT
I especially liked Joker, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that those films were an inspiration for the series, but I'm not sure that style would fit Star Wars. I have my worries, based on the rumors that the early ideas for the series were too dark and serious, that it will be too melancholic and heavy in comparison to the fairly light Lucas films.
I don't know if I'd agree with that. I thought, and I still think ROTS is dark and very serious, it's so melancholic, it's almost the Titanic in space. Put the film on a large TV, with a proper sound system - it's an emotional roller-coaster.
Do we really want this new series to be a pale imitation of the prequels? I don't, I want it to take massive inspiration, but I want it to be its own thing too, because the truth is nobody can replicate the mind of George Lucas. Even the TCW animation had its own distinct atmosphere, and it was the maker himself who began that project.
It's the Saga films that I want to see rhyming with each other, and unfortunately TLJ was a disaster on that front. We need to stop pretending that non-Saga spinoff films are going to blend in perfectly, we should see them as optional extras.
jppiper Better to tag me like this if you've only got a short response to a long post. Only quote a long post if you indent to discuss most or all of the points raised by the other forum member. |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 21, 2022 15:33:20 GMT
I especially liked Joker, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that those films were an inspiration for the series, but I'm not sure that style would fit Star Wars. I have my worries, based on the rumors that the early ideas for the series were too dark and serious, that it will be too melancholic and heavy in comparison to the fairly light Lucas films. I don't know if I'd agree with that. I thought, and I still think ROTS is dark and very serious, it's so melancholic, it's almost the Titanic in space. Put the film on a large TV, with a proper sound system - it's an emotional roller-coaster. Well, ROTS is dark and serious; even, yes, melancholic (as all the prequels are). However, it's not leaden or lugubrious, which many other things are, and they're always a chore to sit through (if one even bothers sitting through them in the first place).
Very true -- and, in many respects, the elephant in the room. Nobody can do George Lucas except George Lucas. He's a total one-off. If it were possible to easily emulate him, what would any longer make George Lucas George Lucas?
TLJ has a lot of rhyming, but the overall attitude and tone of the film is very different to the others. Like it's trying hard to be the fly in the ointment. I agree that we need to accept that non-Saga spinoff material is never going to blend perfectly. And yes, treating the spinoff films/shows as optional extras sounds like the only sensible thing to do. |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 21, 2022 15:53:47 GMT
They released a clip from the show: Nice clip. Nothing really given away, of course. But this will hopefully be a satisfying series in its own right. From the article: www.ign.com/articles/obi-wan-kenobi-series-joker-logan-comparisonsAt least this seems to confirm that the show won't be an ensemble piece -- or, if it is, Obi-Wan is going to remain the focus. Unless, of course, she means that one or two characters get that treatment, and not Obi-Wan alone. She cites "Joker" and "Logan", but both of those are feature films, while this is a miniseries, so the latter remains a possibility. Maybe "Rogue One" was on the razor's edge, as you put it. However, I think this new series' departure from the Lucas/Saga films was already obvious in the trailers. If anything, it was "Rogue One" that laid that foundation. That film isn't especially faithful to the Saturday matinee serial aesthetic, either. It had many modern hallmarks, like shaky cam, grim dialogue, emphatic speechifying, even a sudden time-jump (after the opening sequence); and, of course, a burst of ultraviolence at the end (the Vader slaughter sequence). I think it'd be hard to keep the Saga style intact in these spinoff projects. Especially one centered around a single character. That's never been the Star Wars way. The main films are action-oriented, elliptical adventures: allegories. Of course, they are, in part, character studies, and certainly in whole (Anakin), but they're more about the macro-plot of a democracy becoming a dictatorship, and then that dictatorship being overthrown, than they are microscopic character examinations. That could, in effect, make them unreliable narratives -- stories where certain simplifications and exaggerations take place as a natural consequence of the format. I think a closer, more grounded approach is needed here. It's like this is the real Obi-Wan (Ben), and his adventures in the Saga films are the fantasy. The Saga films are a mythologised record of his activities and the people he interacted with. This series, by contrast, is perhaps trying to bring us closer to "who" Obi-Wan is in (pseudo) reality. He was involved in a whole lot of shit in his past, but that is the past (the mythical, unknowable past) and this is the present: Obi-Wan Now. Very well put, especially the bolded part. I've had similar thoughts about the existing live action shows in particular, even though it may seem counter to the idea that Lucas' work is the "real" Star Wars and everything else is supplementary, which is an opinion I hold. If Disney's products have sort of taken us to the ground level in a more realistic fashion, I hold the Lucas saga as being like a gospel that is a higher and more valuable truth than the "reality" of the Star Wars universe. I think the grounded approach definitely worked with The Mandalorian, which I thought of as a window into the ordinary day-to-day galaxy, but with Obi-Wan they could have gone either way, since it is more tied to the mythic Lucas saga. But I think the grounded approach will reflect well on the Lucas films, and make them seem even more mythical in comparison, setting them apart as their own thing. I especially liked Joker, so it's not necessarily a bad thing that those films were an inspiration for the series, but I'm not sure that style would fit Star Wars. I have my worries, based on the rumors that the early ideas for the series were too dark and serious, that it will be too melancholic and heavy in comparison to the fairly light Lucas films. I don't know if I'd agree with that. I thought, and I still think ROTS is dark and very serious, it's so melancholic, it's almost the Titanic in space. Put the film on a large TV, with a proper sound system - it's an emotional roller-coaster.
Do we really want this new series to be a pale imitation of the prequels? I don't, I want it to take massive inspiration, but I want it to be its own thing too, because the truth is nobody can replicate the mind of George Lucas. Even the TCW animation had its own distinct atmosphere, and it was the maker himself who began that project. It's the Saga films that I want to see rhyming with each other, and unfortunately TLJ was a disaster on that front. We need to stop pretending that non-Saga spinoff films are going to blend in perfectly, we should see them as optional extras. jppiper Better to tag me like this if you've only got a short response to a long post. Only quote a long post if you indent to discuss most or all of the points raised by the other forum member. You're right, I see the Disney entries in the series as sort of windows into possible events happening outside of the core Lucas saga. The different approach did wonders for The Mandalorian, but I perhaps mistakenly expected the Obi-Wan series to sort of click more with the saga films. It may still do that of course, we have only seen a tiny glimpse of it so far. Narratively I hope it ties the two trilogies together even more. With Hayden being a big part of the promotional tour, I expect Vader/Anakin to have a sizeable role in the series, which will help tie it to the main narrative of "The Tragedy of Darth Vader." |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 21, 2022 16:49:04 GMT
Nice clip. Nothing really given away, of course. But this will hopefully be a satisfying series in its own right.
I can definitely detect a difference in the acting in that clip. I'm fine with it, I've been championing the series as a character study from the very beginning of this thread. We should be driving a familiar car in this series, though there will be a new different engine, so it'll also feel somewhat different.
The thing that would really suck for this series, as I've said before, is an overfocus on the Inquistors. As long as Obi-Wan and Vader/Anakin are guiding the story, as the director has been suggesting in the press tour, we're in good hands.
I'd agree. Rogue One is easily the best film Disney Star Wars have released in my view, and I loved how it tried to be its own thing, despite being in the relatively well known, and limiting, period before ANH. To borrow modern, pop culture parlance, RO was the film we didn't know we needed, whilst the sequels were films Lucas originally set out to make, but ultimate let-downs that spit at the legacy of the prequels.
Hayden gets interviewed by a fangirl. Asked about doing the role again.
Director and Ewan interviewed:
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Post by Cryogenic on May 21, 2022 17:00:01 GMT
I think a closer, more grounded approach is needed here. It's like this is the real Obi-Wan (Ben), and his adventures in the Saga films are the fantasy. The Saga films are a mythologised record of his activities and the people he interacted with. This series, by contrast, is perhaps trying to bring us closer to "who" Obi-Wan is in (pseudo) reality. He was involved in a whole lot of shit in his past, but that is the past (the mythical, unknowable past) and this is the present: Obi-Wan Now. Very well put, especially the bolded part. I've had similar thoughts about the existing live action shows in particular, even though it may seem counter to the idea that Lucas' work is the "real" Star Wars and everything else is supplementary, which is an opinion I hold. If Disney's products have sort of taken us to the ground level in a more realistic fashion, I hold the Lucas saga as being like a gospel that is a higher and more valuable truth than the "reality" of the Star Wars universe. I think the grounded approach definitely worked with The Mandalorian, which I thought of as a window into the ordinary day-to-day galaxy, but with Obi-Wan they could have gone either way, since it is more tied to the mythic Lucas saga. But I think the grounded approach will reflect well on the Lucas films, and make them seem even more mythical in comparison, setting them apart as their own thing. Oh, man. That's an awesome way of looking at. Exactly. I'm not going to sit here and pretend to be a fan of the grounded SWU. I prefer the epic, operatic, tripping-the-light-fantastic, otherworldly construction of the Star Wars Saga. After all, we're all Lucas Loyalists on this site, aren't we? But there may still be something to be gained (beyond $$$) by expanding Star Wars into a contemporary sci-fi/fantasy franchise. Well...  |
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