For Starters - Padmé's Ruminations

I finally recently got a blu-ray player so I could watch the SW commentaries, and I've started by working my way through RotS.

George says he added this scene to remind the viewers that Anakin's struggle and eventual turn to the Dark Side is because he is afraid to lose Padme. Not because he wasn't chosen to confront Grevious, or because he wasn't given the title of Master. It's is about the two of them.

We here already know that, though

Admittedly, this idea never occurred to me in the 25 years I spent wondering how & why he turned, but it only makes perfect sense. And as tragic as it is, I can't get over how much I like this reason.
And Lucas didn't even completely have it fleshed out this way until the last minute. Another example of the story exerting it's intent onto the teller, now matter how long it took him to see it.


The haunting chorus and the lighting in this scene, though! This is such a pregnant moment, pun intended. George telling us so much without any dialogue - a passion of his. Affording us the opportunity to go into their heads. The tenderness and care of Padme and the desire to protect in Anakin, along with the conflict of crossing the lines between right & wrong to do so. All put together so breathtakingly. Well worth the wait.
Yes, such a quintessential Star Wars moment. Intensely foreboding and somber, emotionally charged, and so visually stunning. An incredibly inspiring example of filmmaking and humanity. You really get the sense that the fate of their lives and the galaxy are hanging on the next brittle moment. And that Padme & Anakin have something very deep, she can sense something, she looks up right as Anakin takes a seat to think over his decision, she then gets up to look out at the Jedi Temple. And it all drives the tragic love element of it all straight to your core.

This scene and the one of Anakin saying "If it works" and the ensuing moments are just loaded and charged with thoughts and emotions.

Interesting observartions! I heard somewhere that the look of Padme in her funneral is reference to Ophelia and I agree. Because despite the differences between Padme and Ophelia‘s characters, Ophelia dies because of Hamlet‘s madness. And in the end Padme dies because of Anakin‘s obsession (is not that he killed her, but his obssesion of the Dark Side played big role in it). Just another reference between PT and some of the big old classical stories.

Actually I must admit that I never liked Hamlet: nor the drama itself, nor the character. Hamlet was too obsessed with his own ruminations and misunderstands with his mother and uncle and of course, he was completely obsessed by his revenge. That's why I think Mel Gibson's Hamlet is the most effective (i.e. closer to the original), Mel is good presenting half mad people
But what makes me cringe most is the way he treated Ophelia and yes she died because of him. Yes, he was quite unpleasant character for me and still is. Too egoistic, too concentrated in his own self.
Macbeth was all the opposite. I have always felt sorry for him as I felt sorry for Vader. Macbeth slowly sinks in the midst of his nightmares but he still has conscience, he still has regrets. I think that , a difference from Hamlet, poor Macbeth thinks (at least in the beginning) that he is doing noble things: that he would be a good king, etc., etc. Sounds familiar, isn't it? He was noble person indeed, but he was consumed by his passions and dark deeds.
I think the Anakin's monologue in Lars garage in AOTC has a very strong Macbethian taste. I really like it (Hayden nailed it). The big difference with the case of Macbeth here is Padme of course: the ray of light that saves Anakin from the deep madness that is threatening him. It is a pity that she couldn't save him in the end of ROTS.
P.S> the most popular image of Ophelia's death. I thik the reference s evident.

There is a diary journal by Queen Amaidala which covers her thoughts and feelings during the course of TPM.

There is also a picture book for young readers called Queen In Disguise about how she sneaks into the handmaiden self-defense course to learn the techniques. (Why wouldn't they teach the Queen self-defense?)

It's funny you mention that though. There is a series of books covering Anakin's Padawan training between TPM & AotC, I absolutely love seeing his thoughts on, and his growing relationship with, the Force, Obi-Wan, the Jedi Council, and the galaxy around him. Disney even recently put out an Obi-Wan & Anakin comic.

But no books about Padme's experiences as a Queen and then a Senator during that time. I was just going to post wishing that there were, but you beat me to it

I too feel it's necessary, but perhaps they felt there wasn't enough of a market. But when I read the reviews and comments for the Amidala Journal it seems there is a big demand for more.

This is truly wonderful. I never thought about such reference between the movies, i.e. these scenes but it exists.
I agree completely with you, moreover I think that this 'explanation' that Padme tend to stay with broken man is just jealousy and misunderstanding about the reasons that Padme chooses Anakin, after all. When I say jealousy, I mean is something subconscious (how Padme could choose this weirdo ) But anyway, as we discussed once, few people understand how much Anakin and Padme match. They are so similar in their reactions towards the other.
I will post later a thread about some aspects of their relationship, especially the way the fans accept it (usually). I think it is interesting topic to discuss.

Padme is a hell of a character that I think isn't given enough analysis. She reflects many of the same qualities as Anakin. She is inherently a good person, that wants to do the right thing, but, at the same time has a certain amount of greed that allows her to be dragged into a relationship that she knows isn't right because they have to live a lie in order to keep it going. She is flawed, she is blinded by love, she doesn't want to make the hard decisions, she feels entitled to something etc etc etc. 

Sooooo many people have an issue with how Padme turned out in the Prequels, they had the idea that Luke and Leia's mother would be perfect. Padme is not perfect. She is just as guilty as Anakin for the bad decisions they make. She inevitably pays the price for her part in the dishonesty. She is a good person, but, for all that good, she just can't outrun her decisions. 

Padme is an enormously complex character who, over time, essentially became near-enough my favourite Star Wars character. Well, after Jar Jar, Anakin, Qui-Gon, Watto, Palpatine, Kylo...

But seriously:

In many ways, she deserves the top slot. Indeed, she seems to be on top of things...

It's now impossible for me to envision the prequels without her. She -- more than Anakin, more than Obi-Wan -- is really the fulcrum of the entire trilogy. As I've said before, the trilogy opens on her story. Her planet is invaded, which sets the entire saga into motion, and Lucas has said that Episode I is really her movie, as seen through the eyes of the Jedi. Moreover, her first appearance, much like Palpatine (as a hologram) and Jar Jar (as a sort of digital hologram), presents her as a strange, flat-screened projection, in cold conference with the Trade Federation. She is also the first character to be robed in primary colour. And equally, she appears strong, stoic, unflappable, and unbreakable, yet also strange, sad, distanced, ethereal, and ghostly. TPM is really her learning experience, her personal initiation; it is she, even more than Anakin and Jar Jar, that takes both her first step, and has her mind opened, to a larger world beyond the walls of her palatial prison and her remote jewel of a planet. She even surprises Palpatine when she chooses to return to Naboo. 

It is also her movements that starkly influence the narrative of each film and stain each movie with its peculiar drama of light and sound; especially the final act of each. She, in fact, is the initiator/activator/motivator of the final third of each film, taking flight in a silver vessel (a Protean transport: one form in many) to bring each movie to its dramatic, definitive conclusion; each movie wrapping on more ominous and enveloping events than the preceding. Padme, as the Eternal Mother figure of Star Wars, appropriately births all closing/capping events in each prequel installment. And AOTC and ROTS, in particular, are awash in birthing/creation imagery. There's an opulence to everything, largely traceable to Padme. Lucas, indeed, quipped in behind-the-scenes material for Episode I that that film was his first "costume drama", and Padme/Amidala is chiefly responsible for making it that. Her costume changes, in the words of the shrewd MSTRMND, approach a manic level of ritualised expression. Jar Jar, on the other hand, who Lucas dubbed "the key to all this", stays in the same basic costume throughout Episode I, and the performer's "suit" was digitally replaced in most shots. Mutual opposites. In Episode II, he acquires a flowing robe and becomes -- at Padme's behest -- her "representative". And Episode II has this gem of a motif where two characters are asked, at particular points, to ritually "act out" what Padme would do in their position, leading to some heavy consequences...

Padme also chooses to accompany Anakin on his gloomy path in the middle prequel; grounding herself -- and being grounded by Anakin -- in the final prequel. And she has a particularly wispy, ephemeral countenance when she goes back to Tatooine with her Jedi protector. Lines become blurred. It becomes hard to tell who is protecting who; and from what. Notably, Padme isn't there when Anakin gives into rage and hate in the Tusken village. Yet she is with him the next day, and she is there to hear (and provoke) his murderous, pain-wracked confession. She even adds some tricky emollient at the end: "To be angry is to be human", after sinking to the ground with him, two towers collapsing. A problem shared is a problem halved? Padme is even, to some extent, responsible for Anakin's killing spree. It is after she rejects him at the fireplace that Anakin has has most intense dream about his mother; and the next day, when Anakin is trying to repress his roiling anxiety, it is Padme who sees straight through his denial, prompting him to confess to the distress within. She even does a little dance around Anakin, not unlike the way Palpatine and Anakin dance around each other, as if connected by invisible Force lines, when Palpatine reveals his true identity in the next movie. And the little nudge she seems to give him to leave Naboo for Tatooine is echoed with the blue-flecked Artoo pushing robot-man C-3PO (Ani's little droid) into the bowels of a machine hell.

It is pretty much impossible to encapsulate Padme's diaphanous character in a handful of words; even many paragraphs of words. As Ingram said in his earlier post, anything you might want to say about Padme may always be accompanied "with something of an ellipsis". It couldn't be more apt that she dies under mysterious circumstances; since her entire existence is as deep a mystery as Anakin's, Palpatine's, or Jar Jar's. In a way... deeper. Just where do these characters come from, and what is the range of their broadcast? And *who* is Padme Amidala? "I am Queen Amidala." Oh, you are? What *is* it to be Queen Amidala; or anyone? The Jedi's amused glances in this moment. Did they fold her contradictions into one personage? Make her ally with Nass; nudge her out of the crowd? When Obi-Wan put Qui-Gon in a snit, he seemed most displeased that they couldn't use their powers to help her. But what if that was a ruse to get Obi-Wan to apologise and make up with him? What if this Force Dyad has tricks of its own when clicking and whirring and purring correctly? Is Padme perhaps some kind of ark-stone or kiber crystal that can focus certain energies in the world? "Your focus determines your reality." As Maul says in a deleted scene ("It's these funny little cuts on the side that give it away"): "The Jedi may be using her for their own purposes." Out of the mouths of Sith...

Padme and her entanglement with the Jedi, with everything, and the vast all that there is, may never be fully solved. Who can solve the riddle of the universe? Some say God is a "She", and Padme is an evocative hint that they may be onto something. For every good, Padme seems to deliver a bad. She helps Palpatine come to power, she accelerates the inevitability of the Clone Wars, she encourages Anakin to keep their marriage a secret. Yet this is hardly the final word on her character. Yin and yang. By the same token, one hardly hastens to call Padme a villain. Her presence is good, compelling, and hard to decipher. Is that not the axiomatic creed that is the mind fuel in the struggle of devout and curious people as they apply themselves to understand the will of the divine and its recondite imprimatur?

"Nature hides her secret because of her essential loftiness, but not by means of ruse."
-- Albert Einstein

When it comes to defining Anakin & Padme's path as a couple, I'm not sure that it's as cut & dry as either bad decisions & entitlement or understandable & justified. Rather, Lucas seems to have crafted these things so as to inhabit a more elusive, paradoxical limbo land.

Did they make bad decisions? I would say they were lucky to find each other and found themselves in quandary, or an unfortunate set of circumstances. This is the Greekspearian tragedy of it.

One important factor to remember is that they had agreed not to fall in love. It was only in the face of death that Padme felt it was ok to at least verbally express her true feelings as her last words.

Now, after they survived should they have reneged that, or just been friends with benefits? Not these two. They are all or nothing kind of people. To deny what they said, or have a tawdry affair was not their style. They did the noble thing and honored their love by marrying.


Did they want the best of both worlds? Well, yes. But lets not be so quick to throw the book at them here. They were both deeply embarked in their careers which were also undeniably both their calling and passion. They were both exceptionally good at what they did and the Galaxy needed them. Love & connection are a birthright. And Padme & Anakin were good for each other in many ways, one being how they could be themselves around each other, something they both sorely needed. Who can deny them all that? It's a tough call. And I think intentionally so.

Of course, through training starting at a young age, Jedi choose to sacrifice their otherwise basic instincts for lifelong intimate relationships for thier service to the galaxy and devotion to the Force, but as we all know Anakin walked an unorthodox path. He was a square peg in the Order, an anomaly.

I wouldn't say Anakin remained a Jedi just for the power. For the respect, sure. To feel important, ok. For the jurisdiction, fine. But for the most part I'd say it was because he's a natural born protector and has a drive for service on a grand scale. And something very similar goes for Padme.

It also seems to me like they were both looking for and waiting for an opportunity or reason to leave their careers for the sake of staying together, even if they didn't consciously realize it. And the baby would've been this opportunity. Padme said the Queen probably wouldn't let her serve in the Senate anymore, and Anakin also mentioned he didn't care what others thought. Either way, I think they almost made it to a sort of finish line, but Palpatine pulled the lever and all went to hell before things had a chance to pan out.


Did Padme suffer for her bad decisions? Hm, I'd say the real harm that came from hiding their relationship arose when Anakin couldn't discuss it with the Jedi after his dream, which led to...
That dream was what really lit the fuse on an otherwise, up to that point, relatively benign (but yes, potentially tricky) situation. I think this falls on Anakin. It was his responsibility to get his fear of loss and possessive attachment under control; Jedi or not.

Sure, Padme was white-lying to the public, the Senate and the Jedi but it was a victimless crime that again, falls somewhere between understandable and ethically wrong. Much like the Jedi keeping the fact to themselves that their abilities to use the Force were diminishing.

I certainly never expected Luke & Leia's mom to be perfect. Far from it. Was Padme perfect, flawed, somewhere in between? Well, I'd say she was beautiful and kind, but sad...


And for the record, it wasn't her responsibility to make Anakin seek help for his reaction to the Tuskens. Again, that's on him. She was complicit in the secret, but what could she do?

I saw a couple of reactions to PT in YouTube where I read some comments that Padme's role in ROTS is diminished, she is not who she used to be, etc. I think that in this aspect not only Padme's character but her arc is misunderstood.

From Episode 1 to Episode 3 Padme is supposed to be "sided" in the story. Not because Lucas wanted to diminish her character or didn't know what to do with her (as I suspect is the problem of Leia in ESB). All this is deliberate for two reasons: first, the social role of Padme, if I can say so, and second, her place in Anakin's life.

As an elected queen and then a Senator, Padme is the essence of courageous, generous leader, someone who always stands for the good of her people and others in general. But also, Padme is the Negotiator. While Obi Wan is called like this, is Padme who want to resolve the problems by communication and conversation. In Episode 1 she preferred to be captured but not to make decisions that would lead them to war. Even when a battle is inevitable, she is trying to evade it and conclude the negotiations fast (the battle of Naboo was actually a diversion, her goal was to capture the viceroy and to end the blockade.
In Episode 3 however, there is a full scale war. Padme's job is to negotiate: something she cannot do (maybe occasionally and incidentally yes, but in general, war is the opposite of negotiations). We don't see Padme in her political arena because at that point the agression and death occupied the place for negotiations and peace. It always amazed me her sentence: this war represents the failure to listen. Indeed every war represents it as negotiations and diplomacy would be always the better way to resolve a conflict and war is the way of the Sith, after all. So Padme steps back not because she changed, she was tired or she lost some of her beliefs but because she is made to. She is still trying to do the right thing but in the chaos of destruction and death no one listen the voice of reason. We see Padme only once in the Senate: the moment when the Republic is officially destroyed (in thunderous applause) when she is present on the death of her world as the new drew order of the Empire arises. From that point the only thing that Padme can do is saving her private, precious things because the common good is gone (what she actually is trying to do till the end of the movie).

The second reason is how Padme is presented in the trilogy in general. In short, the viewer sees her mostly through Anakin's eyes. That's why in Episode 2 Padme indeed looks older than Anakin because she is the queen of his dreams: so close, but in the same time too far, while in Episode 3 she looks more fragile, in a way unprotected, because Anakin's fear that he couldn't save her increases more and more. I think that is the reason that we see her so often in nightgowns in Episode 3: she looks tender, fragile and of course, more and more beautiful. Anakin goes to Padme's apartment like in a refuge: it is his secret place to be saved by the madness of war and the political machinations: everything there is so cozy and absolutely informal and also is the only place where he can be who he really is, only he should choose just to stay with her.

So, yes, I do think that the way Padme is restrained in Episode 3 is deliberate. It doesn't mean that she is just standing in the shadows, waiting for something to happen: when the situation is critical she is acting as always. What I mean is the moment when Obi Wan came to see her and what she did after that. First, I would emphasize on the fact that she chooses to hide where Anakin is even before Obi Wan told her these terrible things, i.e. even then she is protecting Anakin. Second, she decided to cross the half galaxy (still in post-war situation) alone just to warn Anakin (the allusions that some viewers make that she even thought to attack him are pathetic), so restrained in this case doesn't mean helpless or deprived of any agency.

Padme's fate is supposed to be tragic, she failed to save Anakin this time (but her son succeeded) but failing doesn't mean that the person is wrong or something like that. The tragedy is indeed in that: she was right, she tried but she was sided and pushed out (she even couldn't give a birth in a real place but on a asteroid which is practically a rock between worlds).

Did her character changed? Yes, she softened a bit, became wiser and more patient but in her essence she was the same: always putting the needs of others above hers and always ready to risk her own good to protect the one she loves. Of course, this doesn't mean that she doesn't make mistakes (she does) but she is an amazing character and I think she deserves more understanding.