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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Dec 5, 2022 19:32:53 GMT
I think it's long overdue that we have a thread dedicated to the former Expanded Universe, now known as "Legends". While Lucas birthed Star Wars, and his word was always final, I think Star Wars as created by other people can also be worthwile. The old EU was bursting with many great offshoots of Lucas' saga, and its imagination wasn't constrained like the current spinoff material. Two of my favorite pieces of EU lore are comics that happen to do with apprentices to Darth Vader. I always found that idea exciting. The first was a story in an obscure manga anthology released around the time of RotS: Star Wars Manga: Black:  The story was called "Perfect Evil", and it was a tale of a young Jedi Padawan named Tao whom Vader spared and took on as his apprentice. Sound familiar?  The story bears similarities to The Force Unleashed. I didn't have a PS3 at the time that game came out, and I didn't want the downgraded PS2 version, so the way I enjoyed TFU was as a comic book.  The Force Unleashed was a big deal at the time, a multimedia project like Shadows of the Empire had been in the 90s. But what really gave TFU an air of "authenticity" was that stamp on the cover of the comic stating that this was "The next chapter in the saga of Star Wars," as well as an introduction by the writer where he recounted a meeting with Lucas where Lucas gave his input and influenced the story. What are your favorite EU stories and memories? |
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Dec 6, 2022 15:21:15 GMT
I finally read the RotS novel a couple days ago. It's a great book that adds interesting context for some aspects of the film. I especially liked the additional insight into Anakin's fears in the form of the "dragon". There are aspects of the book that appear to significantly diverge from the movie, such as Anakin wanting the rank of master so he can access the restricted holocrons in the Jedi Archives. But apparently Lucas himself edited the book and approved of everything in it. While that thread is not explicitly stated in the film, I think it's implied. Anakin goes to Yoda for counsel, hoping that he would divulge some knowledge on how to prevent his visions from coming true. And later he says to Palpatine "More and more I get the feeling that I'm being excluded from the Council. I know there are things about the Force that they're not telling me." Also, when Palpatine tells him the "Tragedy of Darth Plagueis the Wise", and says that it's not a story the Jedi would tell him, Anakin probably thinks that that kind of information is stored away in the restricted holocrons only accessible to masters.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Dec 16, 2022 17:50:16 GMT
I'd say my favorite SW book is Rise of Darth Vader. Luceno really outdid himself with this one; covered all the bases and spoiled us. In it we are treated with a number of insights into the mind of Anakin as he completes his transformation into Vader, Palpatine's thoughts on the new Empire, Vader, the Jedi etc., the minds of the surviving Jedi including their theories of what happened, why, and how to proceed, as well as the minds of the clones during Order 66 and in the aftermath of the war and the beginning of the Empire. It's very well written, with many intriguing characters and plot twists, I think I've read it 5 times.
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Post by jppiper on Dec 16, 2022 18:19:23 GMT
The Dark Nest Trilogy is considered a low point in the EU but i like how it linked the two Lucas Trilogies through R2-D2
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Dec 18, 2022 17:59:54 GMT
I figure I'll join in the fun and participate. Maybe I'll even start from the beginning and go chronological. I just downloaded the whole chronology of novels. 😊
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Post by deliveranze on Dec 19, 2022 3:39:22 GMT
The EU was incredible. I loved the Clone Wars Adventures comics from 2004-2007 in the style of the 2003 Clone Wars micro series. Some really incredible and wild short stories. Like the battle droid who hits their head so hard, they become sentient and try to escape the CIS army, or Obi-Wan letting a known Separatist mercenary escape Kamino after finding out she wasn’t there to steal the cloning secret, but ordered a clone of herself to not be lonely.
I also found the Second Galactic Civil War shown in the Legacy of the Force series to be complex and interesting too. (Sure, it did feel like the Clone Wars part II with another secession crisis and a Skywalker family member falling to the dark side), but to see a conflict between Rebel Alliance allies (Corellia, Bothans, Wedge, etc. against Luke) had some really interesting dynamics that felt relevant in the mid to late 2000s War on Terror landscape.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Dec 24, 2022 15:38:59 GMT
Over the course of 2016-18 I read audiobooked just about every Star Wars book available. And I'd say my top favorites are:
Darth Plagueis - Luceno
Cloak Of Deception - Luceno
Maul: Lockdown - Schreiber
Anakin's Jedi Quest series - Watson
Wild Space - Miller
Boba Fett: Fight To Survive - Bisson
Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader - Luceno
Catalyst - Luceno
Death Troopers - Schreiber
Shadows Of The Empire - Perry
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Dec 24, 2022 19:18:45 GMT
I don't get why people like Shadows of the Empire. It reads like a youth novel. A lot of "Oh, no." Luke said.
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Post by jppiper on Dec 24, 2022 20:10:44 GMT
I don't get why people like Shadows of the Empire. It reads like a youth novel. A lot of "Oh, no." Luke said. Maybe the Video Game will be more to your liking |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Dec 24, 2022 21:14:21 GMT
I don't play video games. Maybe the comics are better?
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Post by jppiper on Jan 15, 2023 1:29:23 GMT
From Twitter
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Post by tonyg on Jan 30, 2023 22:09:39 GMT
I still consider Stover's novelization of ROTS as the best novelization in SW. It is real literature, not just translation of the movie's plot on book, if I can say so. Best book from the real EU (i.e. not directly connected to the movies) for me is the Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader by Luceno. As Subtext Mining said, Luceno really outdid himself on this book. Many people think that the title is misleading a bit, because this is actually the aftermath of ROTS and not Vader slaughtering some Jedi (what a relief that it wasn't that), and yes, the book is great. Post ROTJ period: definitely Tattoine Ghost. A book that could look a little dull regarding to the action, but is great character study of Leia. This book understands Leia and post-ROTJ Han. Shadows of the Empire was OK for me, I think people like it also because is still the only novel that treats the time between Episode 5 and 6 and shows the inner turmoil of Leia towards Luke/Han and the inner turmoil of Luke (he knows already who Vader is). Kenobi was also an OK book and while I don't consider it as something great I would prefer to be adapted as a mini-series instead of what they did as TW show. I know this is unpopular opinion, but I don't like Zahn novels of the new Jedi Order. They look boring and to a degree, emotionless to me. Of course, nothing could beat the Courtship of Princess Leia: is not that is so bad as a book, but as SW book is abysmal. I read some of the new Disney books, but I'm not impressed. To a degree, I like Master and Apprentice and also Ahsoka. I read somewhere that the new novel Brotherhood is heavily inspired by the ROTS novelization (as a style) so I would give it a chance. I also saw some of the comics of Vader, they are obivously made by PT fans.  |
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Post by maychild on Feb 2, 2023 6:01:58 GMT
I hate most of the old EU, in particular, any books which abuse Han/Leia (as a couple and as individual characters). The NJO for the most part was one long "revenge" fic against Leia and Han/Leia as a couple. It got better about two-thirds of the way through, when Han/Leia fans got fed up with the mistreatment and finally got through, somewhat, to Del Rey. I particularly hate "Balance Point," and I hope Kathy Tyers is never let within 10 miles of another SW book. Although she probably wouldn't want to write one anyway, since her adored Mara Jade has been kicked to the curb (hallelujah!) with the rest of the old EU.
Zahn's books are OK, I guess...fun for the time but pretty blah in retrospect. Still, there are plenty of other books that are a lot worse. Most of the rest of the EU is unremarkable, although I do like Stover's contributions; as a writer he runs circles around Zahn. Zahn was allowed to bring Thrawn back into "continuity," although thankfully he won't be able to bring that Jade thing back, at least not as Luke's wife.
The rebooted EU has been decent so far -- a supplement to the movies rather than attempts to rewrite them to suit individual authors' fantasies, as was often the case with the old EU. And a new book came out recently that thankfully grinds whatever's left of that horrible "Courtship of Princess Leia" tome into dust: "The Princess and the Scoundrel."
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Post by tonyg on Feb 2, 2023 13:24:18 GMT
I hate most of the old EU, in particular, any books which abuse Han/Leia (as a couple and as individual characters). The NJO for the most part was one long "revenge" fic against Leia and Han/Leia as a couple. It got better about two-thirds of the way through, when Han/Leia fans got fed up with the mistreatment and finally got through, somewhat, to Del Rey. I particularly hate "Balance Point," and I hope Kathy Tyers is never let within 10 miles of another SW book. Although she probably wouldn't want to write one anyway, since her adored Mara Jade has been kicked to the curb (hallelujah!) with the rest of the old EU. Zahn's books are OK, I guess...fun for the time but pretty blah in retrospect. Still, there are plenty of other books that are a lot worse. Most of the rest of the EU is unremarkable, although I do like Stover's contributions; as a writer he runs circles around Zahn. Zahn was allowed to bring Thrawn back into "continuity," although thankfully he won't be able to bring that Jade thing back, at least not as Luke's wife. The rebooted EU has been decent so far -- a supplement to the movies rather than attempts to rewrite them to suit individual authors' fantasies, as was often the case with the old EU. And a new book came out recently that thankfully grinds whatever's left of that horrible "Courtship of Princess Leia" tome into dust: "The Princess and the Scoundrel." That's why I liked Tattoine Ghost, it was more like a character study about Leia discovering the past and making a peace with it. The book has some dull parts but still, is doing its best to "reconcile" what happened before it (in the Courtship and so on) with what happened in the movies. Honestly speaking, I expected something similar to happen about the potencial discovering of Padme by her children (at least, in a book written in post-ROTS time) but it didn't. I didn't read the Dark Nest trilogy, but from what I know, is not that. I don't want even to begin with the abysmal treatment of Padme in the Disney book trilogy about her (I still cannot believe that it was written by the same author that wrote Ahsoka). Anyway, what I hate in the plotline of the New Jedi Order is the attempt of repetition of Anakin's arc (unsuccessful and for that matter, uninteresting). And the tragedy is that Disney actually took these ideas in their trilogy, no matter that they pretend that "Legends" don't exist. I'm affraid Kylo is some (mildly) re-written Jansen Solo. While I like the fact that in EU they gave Luke a wife (this is a NJO, new rules in this aspect) I'm not sure I like Mara Jade too much. Is not that I dislike her either, more that she is typical Mary Sue, I think. |
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Post by tonyg on Feb 9, 2023 0:12:41 GMT
These are interesting quotes. I see the connection with the Expanded Universe thread, but still I think Subtext Mining should decide. |
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Post by jppiper on Mar 11, 2023 0:11:51 GMT
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Post by tonyg on Mar 16, 2023 22:25:11 GMT
I recently read some of the Clone Wars novels. I'm not impressed, actually. The first Republic Commando novel (it was OK), also Wild space and the duology Gambit. What I liked is how the author of the latter, Karen Miller actually nailed the characters of Anakin and Padme. It is a rare gem in the EU (including the new books). Miller is good at giving "flesh" and substance to the characters although the plot of the books is not the most interesting thing in the world (I had some issues with her Kenobi, but still the character as such was closer to the movies). But generally for me, with a very few exceptions that I already mentioned,EU books fail to show us the main characters of the movies: in most books Anakin, in some cases Luke and especially Padme are totally out of character when they appear in such books at all. I think this distinguish the good EU books from the not so good: when we see characters of the movies act as themselves.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 1, 2023 12:26:58 GMT
  Here's a little sample of the Star Wars manga I mentioned in the opening post. The text isn't in English, but I think the artwork is really neat. To me, this has always been one of the finest pieces of SW lore not created by GL himself. It really gets to the heart of Anakin/Vader as a character. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 1, 2023 19:06:52 GMT
I have only read the first Padme book, which I thought was dull and uninteresting. What goes wrong with it in your opinion?
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Post by tonyg on Sept 1, 2023 22:12:26 GMT
I have only read the first Padme book, which I thought was dull and uninteresting. What goes wrong with it in your opinion? I couldn't follow all the books either, but the second one is even more uninteresting than the first, so I didn't bother to read the last. I have a bunch of problems with these books, to begin with the most irritating one, that they are written like young adult fantasy cliche from beginning to end. Second problem: the author obviously doesn't understand who Padme is at all. I have written earlier that this is one of the biggest problems in many books of the EU (but not in the good ones): the depiction of the main movie characters differs too much from the movies (I haven't read so much of the new Disney books, so I couldn't tell if the problem continues). Padme is maybe affected the most in this aspect and maybe it is because there was no book centered on her or mostly on her in EU. However, inthe mentioned Disney books is worse. Is not always worse: I mentioned the duology Gambit earlier: it is about Anakin and Obi Wan but in the few moments when Padme appears she is Padme from the movies. Padme in the books of E.K.Johnston on the other side looks nothing like that but as the smart teen girl from around the corner. She is more like the cheerleader between her followers (but the good one, not the nasty one) than a shy but decisive girl who dreams of big idealistic things and is ready to fight for them. I see that the author is more comfortable to write about Sabe (the queen's shadow) than about Padme herself, which would be fine, but even Sabe's character is paper thin. I couldn't understand any of her motivations nor attitude: not only towards Padme but towards the world in general (I include here first and second book). Yes, the books could be about " the gang" (Padme and her handmaidens) but again they are all the cliche types of many chick TV movies with the respective postmodern tendencies.Next problem: the book (the first and the second book follow the same disjointed structure) doesn't know what to be: the Padme's coming of age, Sabe's role as a queen shadow or the gang. In the second book Padme begins her path as a Senator but there is actually no plot: nothing really essential happens. There is a potential,for example, Padme's is attacked by the media (actually by the Trade Federation through the media) but this potential is wasted because she arranges this through her new political contacts with Bail and Mon Mothma. The whole book is like that: an interesting subplot ends abruptly and in a boring way. And while I'm a female, I was tired to read about clothes and other girly things (while the description of all this is motivated it is tiresome to read so often about it). The most interesting subplot: Sabe trying to find Shmi (of course the errand came from Padme) practically happened "off screen" (Sabe telling about it). Ahsoka is much more successful attempt by the same author. My hypothesis is that she understands Ahsoka better but does not understand Padme at all. |
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