Post by Subtext Mining on Feb 19, 2022 9:09:36 GMT
I've always seen the Sifo-Dyas mysteries as something fun to think about and ponder. Though I'm sure there's a fascinating configuration of this sub-plot to be had, the details seem to me to be relatively inconsequential to the overall story, and I think the mystery element adds to the intrigue.
I'm not sure why some folks out there claim it to be a frustrating puzzle that absolutely needs to be resolved for the story of the saga to work. As long as the Jedi think Sifo-Dyas probably ordered the army secretly - but the Sith are really behind it, the rest is just details.
But with that said, although there is a tangential conversation about this topic in the Lucas Sequel Treatments thread, I thought it deserved it's own dedicated discussion.
The major questions are:
1. Did Sifo-Dyas have a genuine vision of a coming war
2. Was Sifo-Dyas Palpatine's Sith Apprentice, or an asset
3. How much influence did Sidious have over Sifo-Dyas
4. When did Darth Plagueis die
5. What was Dooku's and Maul's status while Sifo-Dyas was in league with Sidious
6. Did these three apprentices know about the other two's 'apprenticeships'
7. Who ordered the Clone Army, when, and with what money
8. What did Silman mean by Dooku wanting "to be Sifo-Dyas"
9. Were Dooku and Sifo-Dyas working as a team
10. When did Lord Tyranus enter into the Clone deal with the Kaminoans
11. Who erased the Kamino file
12. When in the timeline was Sifo-Dyas killed
13. Did Sidious order Dooku to kill him or did he do it on his own accord
14. How much time transpired between TPM and AOtC exactly
Feel free to add more questions, and of course, your theories as well.
Things we know:
A. Chancellor Valorum secretly sent Master Sifo-Dyas to Oba Diah to talk with the Pykes
B. Sifo-Dyas had an extensive knowledge of Coruscant's criminal underground (think Underworld show)
C. Dooku, in league with the Pykes, ordered them to shoot down Sifo-Dyas' ship, killing him - but the Pykes imprisoned Silman, who'd survived, unbeknownst to Dooku
D. Sifo-Dyas' body was cremated on Felucia in the presence of some other unidentified Jedi
E. Obi-Wan tells Lama Su, "Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago"
F. Obi-Wan states to Yoda & Mace that he was under the impression Sifo-Dyas was killed before the placement of the order for the Clone Army, which was also "almost ten years ago
G. Jango was hired as the Clone template by Tyranus
H. Sifo-Dyas was a leading member of the Jedi Council, but was removed because his views were deemed too extreme
For reference, here are some clips from TCW:
Yoda asking both Palpatine and Valorum about Sifo-Dyas
Video
Obi-Wan and Anakin talking with Silman
Video
Dooku speaks of Sifo-Dyas to Obi-Wan and Anakin
Video
The Jedi Council discusses Sifo-Dyas
Video
Here's a Lucas quote on the topic:
Nobody knows who ordered the clones. It's played as if it were somebody from the Jedi Council who foresaw there was going to be a war, so he was preparing for it, but it turns out that was somebody working for Palpatine, Sifo-Dyas. He was the apprentice before Darth Maul.
Feel free to add more relevant reference information.
I'm not sure why some folks out there claim it to be a frustrating puzzle that absolutely needs to be resolved for the story of the saga to work. As long as the Jedi think Sifo-Dyas probably ordered the army secretly - but the Sith are really behind it, the rest is just details.
But with that said, although there is a tangential conversation about this topic in the Lucas Sequel Treatments thread, I thought it deserved it's own dedicated discussion.
The major questions are:
1. Did Sifo-Dyas have a genuine vision of a coming war
2. Was Sifo-Dyas Palpatine's Sith Apprentice, or an asset
3. How much influence did Sidious have over Sifo-Dyas
4. When did Darth Plagueis die
5. What was Dooku's and Maul's status while Sifo-Dyas was in league with Sidious
6. Did these three apprentices know about the other two's 'apprenticeships'
7. Who ordered the Clone Army, when, and with what money
8. What did Silman mean by Dooku wanting "to be Sifo-Dyas"
9. Were Dooku and Sifo-Dyas working as a team
10. When did Lord Tyranus enter into the Clone deal with the Kaminoans
11. Who erased the Kamino file
12. When in the timeline was Sifo-Dyas killed
13. Did Sidious order Dooku to kill him or did he do it on his own accord
14. How much time transpired between TPM and AOtC exactly
Feel free to add more questions, and of course, your theories as well.
Things we know:
A. Chancellor Valorum secretly sent Master Sifo-Dyas to Oba Diah to talk with the Pykes
B. Sifo-Dyas had an extensive knowledge of Coruscant's criminal underground (think Underworld show)
C. Dooku, in league with the Pykes, ordered them to shoot down Sifo-Dyas' ship, killing him - but the Pykes imprisoned Silman, who'd survived, unbeknownst to Dooku
D. Sifo-Dyas' body was cremated on Felucia in the presence of some other unidentified Jedi
E. Obi-Wan tells Lama Su, "Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago"
F. Obi-Wan states to Yoda & Mace that he was under the impression Sifo-Dyas was killed before the placement of the order for the Clone Army, which was also "almost ten years ago
G. Jango was hired as the Clone template by Tyranus
H. Sifo-Dyas was a leading member of the Jedi Council, but was removed because his views were deemed too extreme
For reference, here are some clips from TCW:
Yoda asking both Palpatine and Valorum about Sifo-Dyas
Video
Obi-Wan and Anakin talking with Silman
Video
Dooku speaks of Sifo-Dyas to Obi-Wan and Anakin
Video
The Jedi Council discusses Sifo-Dyas
Video
Here's a Lucas quote on the topic:
Nobody knows who ordered the clones. It's played as if it were somebody from the Jedi Council who foresaw there was going to be a war, so he was preparing for it, but it turns out that was somebody working for Palpatine, Sifo-Dyas. He was the apprentice before Darth Maul.
Feel free to add more relevant reference information.
