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Post by eljedicolombiano on Dec 21, 2021 19:10:50 GMT
 Seriously though- who is he? George seemed to have the idea that he was a Neimoidian, basing him on some unused Episode III concept (why the EU made him a Muun, who knows) but perhaps this ties in to Palpatine's relation with the Trade Federation in TPM. What where his powers and abilities- how much of what Sidious says here is truth and how much is it a lie? |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Dec 21, 2021 19:40:13 GMT
I thought I heard somewhere George decided, or agreed, to have him be Muun because of the banking clan ties with which to fund the Clone Army. I think it might've been in a Behind The Scenes clip on one of the TCW DVDs. I might be misremembering something, but it makes enough sense to me.
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Post by jppiper on Dec 21, 2021 21:52:50 GMT
Subtext Mining do you think Snoke would have been Plagueis if Lucas was still involved?
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Post by eljedicolombiano on Dec 21, 2021 22:44:57 GMT
Snoke was JJ's invention- had nothing to do with Plagueis, despite insistent fan theories. According to Pablo he gave the EU guys a Neimoidian concept art to work with, but supposedly they went elsewhere (then again, I'm not sure we can trust Pablo) so you may be right Subtext.  |
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Post by Alexrd on Dec 22, 2021 17:24:09 GMT
I thought I heard somewhere George decided, or agreed, to have him be Muun because of the banking clan ties with which to fund the Clone Army. I think it might've been in a Behind The Scenes clip on one of the TCW DVDs. I might be misremembering something, but it makes enough sense to me. No, George never linked Plagueis to the Banking Clan or the creation of the clone army. Plagueis himself is never mentioned in TCW featurettes. The original rumor was that Lucas simply suggested to Licensing that he could be a Muun, but turns out that the Neimoidian concept art was the suggested visual clue of how he might have looked like. But even that was just a suggestion. do you think Snoke would have been Plagueis if Lucas was still involved? Lucas had nothing to do with Snoke and his sequel trilogy villains would have been Maul and Talon. Not Plagueis, who had died long ago. |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Dec 23, 2021 19:42:26 GMT
It would be interesting to hear Lucas' thoughts on Plagueis and his abilities if he were to flesh some out. I wonder how much bearing he would've had on an ST helmed by George. If he was going to further explore of the nature of Midichlorians I'd imagine Plagueis would possibly come up again, maybe in a holocron.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Dec 25, 2021 8:40:31 GMT
I like to think that it was Plagueis who put the Force out of balance in the first place with his life creating experiments. His name seems to hint that way. That he is the plague or the cancer, as Lucas describes the effects of the dark side. And that the Force then retaliated by creating the Chosen One.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jan 4, 2022 11:32:27 GMT
Yeah, I've always had the notion it was the extent of the dark powers Darth Plagueis had achieved, culminating in his ability to tinker with life that set off a safety switch mechanism, if you will, in the Force that triggered the creation of a Midichlorian baby who would have the ability to decide which way to take the balance, or decide the fate of the galaxy, based on his own values.
In an interview, Lucas said, "It wasn't really meant as a virgin birth, more a metaphor for life."
By that, I'm guessing he's talking about the concept he goes over in this quote:
"I believe in a certain amount of determinism, from an ecological point of view. It's that things essentially reach their own equilibrium. If you don't live a certain way, ecologically speaking, you will be forced into a position that will level it. What I would call an "unpoetic" state will eventually become a "poetic state", because an unpoetic state will not last. It can't. It's like economics. It's like life, it's like animals, it's like everything. You can set up an artificial reality, but eventually it will equalize itself, and become real."
It's like, when the dark side users become too powerful and the balance is off, the Force has a way of providing the opportunity of restoring things, but it's still up to the living beings of the Galaxy to decide.
1st quote from Barry Norman's Film Night, 1999
2nd quote from The Making Of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind The Original Film by J.W. Rinzler, 2007
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Post by smittysgelato on Jan 5, 2022 4:47:43 GMT
Yeah, I've always had the notion it was the extent of the dark powers Darth Plagueis had achieved, culminating in his ability to tinker with life that set off a safety switch mechanism, if you will, in the Force that triggered the creation of a Midichlorian baby who would have the ability to decide which way to take the balance, or decide the fate of the galaxy, based on his own values. In an interview, Lucas said, "It wasn't really meant as a virgin birth, more a metaphor for life." By that, I'm guessing he's talking about the concept he goes over in this quote: "I believe in a certain amount of determinism, from an ecological point of view. It's that things essentially reach their own equilibrium. If you don't live a certain way, ecologically speaking, you will be forced into a position that will level it. What I would call an "unpoetic" state will eventually become a "poetic state", because an unpoetic state will not last. It can't. It's like economics. It's like life, it's like animals, it's like everything. You can set up an artificial reality, but eventually it will equalize itself, and become real." It's like, when the dark side users become too powerful and the balance is off, the Force has a way of providing the opportunity of restoring things, but it's still up to the living beings of the Galaxy to decide. 1st quote from Barry Norman's Film Night, 1999
2nd quote from The Making Of Star Wars: The Definitive Story Behind The Original Film by J.W. Rinzler, 2007 And that unpoetic state, dear friends, is the enchanted wasteland from Parzival, which becomes disenchanted, or poetic again, when Luke asks his dear ol' pop the question of compassion: Father, what ails thee? |
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Post by smittysgelato on Jan 5, 2022 23:22:34 GMT
Subtext MiningI like that you bring up Lucas' ecological thinking. Balance as homeostasis and all of that. We are used to seeing balance as two opposites of equal weight on two sides of a scale. That is why it is so easy to get confused and think there need to be an equal amount of Sith and Jedi to create balance. In reality, the Sith interfere with homeostasis and need to be eliminated, which brings balance or homeostasis to the Force.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jan 7, 2022 16:32:18 GMT
According to everything Lucas has said on the matter, that indeed seems to be what balance of the Force means. Though I wish he had been a little more detailed. But I'm guessing he left it somewhat open to interpretation. The problem is though, for example, if you search for "balance of the Force explained" on Youtube you get dozens of videos and they all have widely differing perspectives  I have a feeling he would've explored this more in a sequel along with Midichlorians and the Whills. But yes, Lucas does for sure say that destroying the Sith brought balance back to the Force. Which makes sense, but I'd like to add a few things, starting with a question. Can the Force itself ever actually be out of balance? By "balance of the Force" is he referring more to the state of the galaxy in terms of the Force users? Kind of how when we use the word "the world" when referring to humanity or global civilization. We don't mean Earth, the planet, we mean the people. Like, "The whole world has gone crazy." Regardless, having the Sith gone means equilibrium. Now, eventually, there's always gonna be somebody somewhere looking into dark side philosophy or techniques, does that mean the Force becomes unbalanced? I tend not to think so. I would imagine as long as they're not strong enough to overpower the light side users, as long as they can stop the dark side users, things are still ok. So no, I don't think it's about numbers, but more the power ratio. (I mean, Sidious himself was so powerful that he could mask his Force signature in the Jedi's presence, to name one thing).  But there's also another factor to consider. Even with no dark side users around, the Force can potentially go out of balance. The galaxy can have one light side practitioner, or hundreds, or thousands, with no dark siders, and the balance would be fine because light side users honor life and serve the people in the name of justice and peace while remaining humble and selfless. While dark side users are like an invasive, parasitic species, living in greed, So if the light siders can't keep the dark siders at bay, the balance goes dark. But a very important part of being a light side practitioner is being humble. The Sith, by disappearing for so long, really helped their cause because in their absence the Jedi let their guard down and became too sure of themselves. With no worthy adversaries to keep them on their toes they got a little arrogant, and I could see how that could also contribute to the balance slipping. Ultimately, I think the solution is to never assume there are no (powerful) dark side users around. Be ever vigilant. And don't be overconfident in confronting them either when you do learn of their existence. "Never underestimate the power of the Emperor." Yes, the yin/yang comes to mind. However Lucas also refers to balancing the dark and the light within one's self, but he doesn't seem to mean destroy all the dark, more of acknowledging and therefore controlling one's darker sides. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Jan 7, 2022 21:00:12 GMT
The whole question of what balance means can lead one into thinking it is just a man-made idea, and that the Force is fine regardless. However, given that the prophecy came from the Whills, in the Star Wars universe at least, balance is not just a man-made idea.
Although, the balance within individuals probably does mean being aware of one's dark side and not allowing it to overcome you. Whereas balance on an external scale may have more to do with the effect that forces of greed have on society (the Trade Federation, corrupt governments, politicians, the Sith, etc.)
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