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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 25, 2022 10:06:56 GMT
Another thing I hear some people say is that back in the day they got from the OT that anyone could be a Jedi, if they trained hard enough. I don't know, I never got that, that never occurred to me. What I took away from all three films was that only those strong in the Force had the potential to become a Jedi. And that it had something to do with genetics. That's why Luke and Leia were the only hopes. There weren't trillions of other hopes.
Now, some people point to the RotJ story discussion excerpt where Lucas says to Kasdan and Marquand that anyone can become a Jedi if they're dedicated to training hard enough, if they're into that sort of thing. But like with anything else, that sounds to me like a "calling", something one is born to do. I don't know if Lucas was undecided and flip-flopping now and then, or was leaving it vague and ambiguous, or if that's what he actually thought at the time. But what's interesting is that I think, either way, the movies bear out, with evidence, that only gifted people can become Jedi. Maybe my reading was wrong, but it at least feels open-ended enough to see it as another thing Lucas left vague in order to refine later when he figured it out.
I mean, Joseph Cambell and Lucas were in to callings and following one's bliss, it just stands to reason that Luke's character is an archetypal representation of each individual viewer, on their personal journey in discovering their calling or destiny and developing their talents to their full potential.
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Post by Alexrd on Jul 25, 2022 11:47:20 GMT
I think Lucas's point is that since we are all connected to the Force, we can develop that connection with time and training, but like everything else, that only goes so far. You might learn to draw and take all the classes in the world, but you'll never draw like someone who has a talent for it.
You need to have a natural talent for it, to be naturally strong in the Force, in order to be considered for Jedi training. Otherwise it would take a lifetime (instead of a couple of decades) to have any ability to make a difference and really become a Jedi. That's why Lucas stresses the importance of discovering your talent. Not all of us are born to be basketball players, even if everyone wants to be one. It's better to accept and recognize that, and let go of any ambition or desire for power or prestige.
For at least half a century, society has been teaching kids that they can be whatever they want. That's a lie which only fuels frustration and resentment later on. Kids have options nowadays like no other generation had, yet they are not taught to discover what they are good at and to filter through those options.
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Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 26, 2022 5:50:53 GMT
Right. And that is in accord with the Midi-chlorian concept. Everyone has Midi-chlorians in them and is potentially capable of communing with the force through training in quieting their minds, no living being is excluded from that. But, about 10,000 beings at a time are gifted with the ability to do so with much more aptitude. They've been called to serve as guardians of peace and justice in the galaxy and help keep the Force in balance. That number seems to be the equilibrium settled upon by the Force or the Whills. While everyone else has other important callings, among which of course is raising families and keeping the cycle of generations going, as well as the cycle of the Living and Cosmic Force. Speaking of which, Jedi must make certain sacrifices in order to effectively safeguard peace and justice for an entire society. In order to serve the greater good they must give up attachments that would otherwise influence their decision making, including family. The most practical way to ensure this mindset and lifestyle is to induct new Jedi at a young age, and the most effective way to induct the ones with the most likelihood of succeeding, thus using resources responsibly, is to measure their potential with a Midi count. If they do indeed measure that for induction, it's not established. (I think Qui-Gon was just curious in light of everything else). If so though, it all ties in to how important the Midis are for the story. And yes, in minutes Luke learned how to listen to the Force and act on instinct in order to deflect the remote droid's beams. While for a Han or a Lando I always got the notion it would've taken years. Luke was the Yo-Yo Ma of his generation, and it had to do with genetics, that's just life.  What everyone in SW and irl is equally capable of is choosing to live selflessly and compassionately, and discovering their own destiny whatever it might be. I think that's what Lucas is ultimately trying to convey with his films. |
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Post by Alexrd on Jul 26, 2022 17:46:32 GMT
The most practical way to ensure this mindset and lifestyle is to induct new Jedi at a young age, and the most effective way to induct the ones with the most likelihood of succeeding, thus using resources responsibly, is to measure their potential with a Midi count. If they do indeed measure that for induction, it's not established. (I think Qui-Gon was just curious in light of everything else). If so though, it all ties in to how important the Midis are for the story. Yeah, I don't think they do that. They might, but as established in the movie, Qui-Gon had already sensed that Anakin was unusually strong with the Force, and only made the test after he learned about his mysterious conception, which could tie him to a prophecy that he was aware of. One where someone was prophesied to be conceived by the midi-chlorians and bring balance to the Force. |
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Post by Alexrd on Jul 28, 2022 8:50:02 GMT
I was reading more carefully Lucas comments regarding the whole Force ghost thing, and I just realized that what Qui-Gon said in ROTS (script) wasn't retconned by what he later established in TCW. Lucas makes a distinction between learning how to preserve the persona and learning to preserve the (corporeal) identity. Turns out that Qui-Gon did learn from the Priestesses how to do the former. But for the latter, it was only when he died and joined the cosmic Force with his persona intact, that he learned how (even though he couldn't do it himself since he was dead).
Lucas:
Qui-Gon (ROTS script):
Yoda (ROTS script):
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Post by Subtext Mining on Sept 17, 2022 13:19:06 GMT
One thing I've (half-jokingly) wondered is why Qui-Gon and the Priestesses wanted Yoda to learn to preserve his consciousness after death so that he could pass his knowledge on to future Jedi, when it was Obi-Wan who needed it to help Luke and direct him to Yoda who taught him while alive.
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Post by darkspine10 on Sept 17, 2022 14:26:55 GMT
One thing I've (half-jokingly) wondered is why Qui-Gon and the Priestesses wanted Yoda to learn to preserve his consciousness after death so that he could pass his knowledge on to future Jedi, when it was Obi-Wan who needed it to help Luke and direct him to Yoda who taught him while alive. Perhaps it's simply that Yoda was more in-tune with the ways of the Force at that time, or more spiritually open to the experience. Obi-Wan was always more of a 'by-the-book' kinda Jedi, so it could've taken something like Order 66 and losing Anakin to open his mind enough to these radical new teachings. |
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Post by Subtext Mining on Sept 18, 2022 21:02:02 GMT
Right, my thoughts exacty. It was just something my brain thought of and I was surprised I hadn't seen any snarky detractors mention it. I should've said mostl-jokingly.
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