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Post by Cryogenic on May 20, 2024 2:08:26 GMT
Somny Remember when Pablo made fun of SWT over his emotional reaction to Luke's Appearance in The Mandalorian? That was bad form. Not once - not bloody once - would Lucasfilm have dreamed of such low behaviour as mocking a fan - their customer. Sure, Lucas didn't enjoy all the petulant antics of the bashers, but he (or his employees) would never have intervened to make fun of a fan enjoying a tender moment of the prequels. They were above that in the pre-Disney days, there was an air of professionalism and a wonderful creative spirit where artists had freedom and there was no greedy corporation on top of them. George was owner, studio CEO, director, writer and producer all in one, and there was a chance an you might get to know him if you worked for him. That's all gone now, replaced by a real life Trade Federation. Well, it's complicated. On the one hand, Pablo has always been a snarky bastard, and why he seemed to target SWT was, in part, because SWT made himself a target by a) making clear his dislike of "The Last Jedi" in several videos and agitating against Disney/LFL (and TLJ is a film that Pablo and others within the company thought was far superior to TFA and TROS), and b) putting out a fairly lachrymose "reaction" video to Luke's appearance at the end of the second season of Mando, all but courting likes and clicks through self-serving response-porn. Although I would argue that Pablo misjudged it, he clearly thought it was worth sending all that up with a surly tweet which he then tried to claim was purely satirical (when the anti-Disney, anti-TLJ mob went against him). But you rightly articulate why it looked bad and came across as bad. Lucas himself was far more stoic and measured in dealing with fan response, pro and con, and he never mocked his customers like that. Second, because Pablo works for a corporate monstrosity like Disney (or is "owned" by them in some sense), any perceived snideness is amplified considerably by the outrage machine of the Internet, which sometimes goes easy on corporations, and sometimes turns against them. When it's the latter, any individuals within that corporate mega-structure are considered fair game for knee-jerk outrage, and their words seem to be treated as carrying more weight -- like they have the full backing of the corporation behind them. It's a way, in other words, for people to punch up at power. Adding to the sensitivity of fans here, many of them began harbouring a suspicion that TLJ is not only "anti-Star Wars", but is somehow antipathetic to their own fan devotion -- as if contemptuous of devotion itself. For instance, when Luke chucks the "legacy" saber over the cliff in his first scene with Rey, many fans began reading that moment as a kind of visual epigram for the movie as a whole. It quickly got interpreted to mean that Rian Johnson and other people within Lucasfilm were sticking their middle finger up at fans and the audacity of fans having expectations, or them wanting the mythology of Star Wars to be treated seriously. Out of TLJ, unlike TFA and TROS, bleeds this "too cool for school" hipster vibe -- i.e., mockery is in, piety is out. In a way, when people heard about that tweet, it just brought all those tensions to the surface. It now seemed like fans had confirmation there was such an agenda and attitude within Lucasfilm. It really wasn't a good moment for Pablo or the company.
They were doing well with "The Mandalorian", until the third season seemed to cool a lot of fans on the series. You're right that their other streaming series have all elicited a mixed response. They need a banger. They may never got one. The Star Wars fanbase, these days, is more divided than ever, and the franchise no longer has the prestige it once did.
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Post by Samnz on May 20, 2024 6:32:53 GMT
I can see Lucas enjoying Leia's part in it, even though I wasn't a fan of it at the time, and it's a move I could have seen Lucas making himself. It's unexpected, explored new ground and offered new opportunities. Some would say it created plot holes, while it was probably just a hard retcon (which Lucas did plenty of in the Prequels).
In all honesty though, I don't think Lucas cares much about what they are doing now. He probably thought it was nice out of courtesy while trying to get back to the things that matter to him right now, like his museum.
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Post by Subtext Mining on May 21, 2024 6:19:34 GMT
Speaking of the Pablo thing. One thing I've never really seen talked about, that I thought was off-putting and in poor taste, was Rian taking a publicity shot holding a sign saying, "Your Snoke theory sucks."
I mean, I agree. But with Johnson being a dz employee, and the one making the next film, I wouldn't think insulting and alienating people like that, trying to have some fun, is good pr.
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 21, 2024 6:32:29 GMT
Speaking of the Pablo thing. One thing I've never really seen talked about, that I thought was off-putting and in poor taste, was Rian taking a publicity shot holding a sign saying, "Your Snoke theory sucks." I mean, I agree. But with Johnson being a dz employee, and the one making the next film, I wouldn't think insulting and alienating people like that, trying to have some fun, is good pr. That was a GL move. Don't be a hater. Bro, Snoke theories were BEGGING to get dumped on. GET OVER IT. |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on May 21, 2024 6:36:08 GMT
I'm not even being edgy or sarcastic. This is my 12 year old Surge-guzzling reaction to any fan-related faggotry. Those Snoke theories DESERVED IT SOOOO BAD THEY WERE BEGGING FOR IT.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 21, 2024 12:16:34 GMT
I can see Lucas enjoying Leia's part in it, even though I wasn't a fan of it at the time, and it's a move I could have seen Lucas making himself. It's unexpected, explored new ground and offered new opportunities. Some would say it created plot holes, while it was probably just a hard retcon (which Lucas did plenty of in the Prequels). I didn't mind it to start with, but it started feeling a bit contrived as the series wore on. That said, the whole Obi-Wan/Leia connection gave the series a strong through-line, and I can see Lucas being a fan of it, for sure. The man has three daughters, after all. I love that. Such a flex. Imagine being able to tell people, "Sorry, can't come out tonight, gotta get back to the museum I'm building." Not "I'm washing my hair", or "I gotta walk the dog", but a freakin' museum. |
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Post by Cryogenic on May 21, 2024 13:34:01 GMT
Speaking of the Pablo thing. One thing I've never really seen talked about, that I thought was off-putting and in poor taste, was Rian taking a publicity shot holding a sign saying, "Your Snoke theory sucks." I mean, I agree. But with Johnson being a dz employee, and the one making the next film, I wouldn't think insulting and alienating people like that, trying to have some fun, is good pr. The operative term there is "trying to have some fun". Although, you're right, it wasn't necessarily a good look (at least, in retrospect), and could be considered in poor taste, for sure. It was a glaring indicator of how much things had changed at Lucasfilm since Lucas sold. Although, in a loose sense, Lucas started it by going around with that "Han Shot First" t-shirt during the production of "Indiana Jones And The Kingdom Of The Crystal Skull". All that said, Rian Johnson's trolling was also as much a takedown of J.J. Abrams' twee fan pandering as it was a knock on fans themselves. But again, this only leant credence to the notion, in the eyes of fans, that "The Last Jedi" was both an "eff you!" to fans and a monkey wrench deliberately thrown into any plan that JJ and Lucasfilm may have had for the rest of the ST. That was a GL move. Don't be a hater. Bro, Snoke theories were BEGGING to get dumped on. GET OVER IT. Yeah, they sorta were. But some might say, "Better a crappy Snoke fan theory than no theory at all" (eh, Rian?). I'm not even being edgy or sarcastic. This is my 12 year old Surge-guzzling reaction to any fan-related faggotry. Those Snoke theories DESERVED IT SOOOO BAD THEY WERE BEGGING FOR IT. Yes, but printing "Your Snoke Theory Sucks" on a Post-it note and antagonising fans, when fan loyalty was by no means guaranteed, was also asking for trouble. These are all from Saltier Than Crait, but they pretty much nail RJ's problematic posturing: https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/d1fjkv/your_snoke_theory_sucks_was_a_major_red_flag/ Sep 8 2019https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/in6du2/imagine_being_so_pretentious_that_you_make_fun_of/ Sep 5 2020https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/iyxmyv/daily_reminder_that_some_people_who_were/ Sep 24 2020https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/k1ho5f/its_kinda_funny_how_rian_johnson_and_pablo/ Nov 26 2020https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/zd3sri/putting_aside_how_rians_own_handling_of_snoke/ Dec 5 2022The first one, from the fall of 2019 (pre-TROS), probably puts it best: https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/d1fjkv/your_snoke_theory_sucks_was_a_major_red_flag/ Some good responses underneath, too: A few more responses from the other links: https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/in6du2/imagine_being_so_pretentious_that_you_make_fun_of/ https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/iyxmyv/daily_reminder_that_some_people_who_were/ https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/k1ho5f/its_kinda_funny_how_rian_johnson_and_pablo/ https://www.reddit.com/r/saltierthancrait/comments/zd3sri/putting_aside_how_rians_own_handling_of_snoke/ And on that last point, I'll close with these -- this anecdote was new to me... Apparently, what that last person said is true: insidethemagic.net/2017/04/photo-rian-johnson-punks-j-j-abrams-behind-scenes-image-star-wars-last-jedi/Certainly, Rian's a smart and quirky guy, but you don't have to look very hard to find people calling his behaviour out for being off-putting; which, frankly, some of it is. These modern-day LFL creatives, whatever you personally think of their creative output, are hardly in Lucas' league when it comes to humility or graciousness with fans. Neither, ironically, despite their overbearing arrogance and unrelenting pretentiousness, do they have a tenth of the intellectual or artistic genius to so much as shine his shoes. |
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Post by Subtext Mining on May 21, 2024 19:48:40 GMT
Yeah, to me it was all a big, off-putting hot mess. And it all came from the mystery boxes JJ put in tfa, but then later even he made fun of fans for trying too hard to figure them out because, as he added, there aren't any. Or, maybe he said they're not intentionally there, I can't remember.
Being a Star Wars fan after the sale, especially during the ST years, was like being in an abusive relationship.
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Post by jppiper on May 27, 2024 4:56:19 GMT
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Post by tonyg on Jun 6, 2024 22:44:06 GMT
What I find confusing is, are dizny trying to distance themselves from Lucas or not? During the ST rollout, the tacit understanding between the fans and dz was basically, "this is not going to be like the PT". Then it eventually, slowly occurred to them that there are PT fans, and that they were alienating the PT fans, so they started incorporating PT stuff. And once in awhile you'll see them say, "Lucas likes this!" Which I would think about half the fans either don't care about, or would even see as a bad sign, haha. Already- and that is the word- they do not. Lucas became mainstream suddenly, he is a star in Cannes and he is adored by fans. So why not use the sympathy to him as marketing tool? Just business. What amazes me - in the worst possible way - is why they were such marketing idiots during the ST release time. They targeted OT fans obviously relying on that they will bring their children to the cinema. Surprise, PT fans became big part of the market and they wouldn't pay for something that have been ostracized, so .. I just still don't understand such economic silliness by Disney. They are big corporation, after all. Where were all these people with the data tables? Suddenly became clear that PT era is profitable, but maybe too little, too late. Back to the main topic: I saw only the so called Patterson cut and I'm sure: Obi Wan Kenobi should be a movie. Maybe streamed but a movie. A show always have "fillers" and the editor obviously cut many of them because the pace is great. However, editing cannot save a problematic plot. The plot is anachronistic ( like for example, Obi Wan is not living on a lonely island yet he never heard of Vader like in 10 years),Vader and Obi Wan shouldn't meet directly (visions would suffice) because it practically drags the dramatic tension between them in ROTS and in ANH (is like, hello again and it shouldn't be) and yes, Luke is like accessory in this story and they don't know what to do with him (I liked Leia but I still think she should be like 5 or 6 at this point). On the positive side, Hayden is back in the game and already is not a thing to hate the prequels. Kenobi was a huge step in this direction, I would like for it to be shorter and bolder, but this is only Lucas film not Lucas. |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Jun 6, 2024 23:30:42 GMT
This series was definitely a "What if?" type scenario, and is not in my head canon.
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Post by Ingram on Jun 7, 2024 6:29:30 GMT
This series was definitely a "What if?" type scenario, and is not in my head canon. You and I park our B-wings in the same hangar bay.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Jul 10, 2024 4:33:23 GMT
The Obi-Wan series lingers in my mind more than any other Disney Star Wars story. Last time I watched ANH, it spontaneously sprang to my mind when Obi and Vader have their confrontation, particularly the final duel in the last episode, whereas in the past, I would think of the Mustafar duel. So, to me the series has ingrained itself in the larger fabric of the saga. I can't say that for the sequels or any of the other spin-offs, not even Rogue One. The series has an endearing hokeyness about it that I find very charming. I can imagine it being true that Lucas liked the series. To me it's the closest any Disney show or movie has gotten to capturing the spirit of his Star Wars. I really wanted the steelbook, but it was sold out when I went to the movie store I frequent.  That goes to show that the series was quite popular after all. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 25, 2024 16:57:40 GMT
Listening to this, damn, Beattie's story would have been way better
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Post by jppiper on Sept 25, 2024 17:11:07 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 27, 2024 1:29:33 GMT
I don't know, Joe. Before I watched this interview I didn't really have any strong opinion on the original script, and was quite content with the idea of a TV series. Now I feel like we really got screwed over and could have something way better in the form of the movies, maybe even at the level of praise that The Clone Wars receives. The fact that we have sense got far more of Christensen (actually acting) in Ahsoka also means this show doesn't posses the huge novelty that it once did for me.
I'm getting far more Star Wars enthusiast vibes from listening to Beattie than I ever did from Jobbie Harold who always seems a tad aloof and can be best be summed as a Hollywood journeyman.
At least its not the unwatchable sh*tshow that the ST is. McGregor and Christensen gave it everything.
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That goes to show that the series was quite popular after all.