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Post by Darkslayer on Sept 1, 2022 0:21:02 GMT
I’m sorry but I am always going to have a special attachment to this series. I do not understand the hate AT ALL.  |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 1, 2022 12:04:17 GMT
Darkslayer Do you think a second season is on the cards? I'm not sure, I don't believe it was their intention. They really wanted to play it conservatively with Obi-Wan, almost like they were afraid of another Solo like disaster. It's all bizarre when you consider how they extend series based on much less beloved characters like Bobba Fett.
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Post by Samnz on Sept 1, 2022 12:29:39 GMT
Do you want my honest opinion? I'd be more interested in a separate Vader show than a second season of Kenobi and not because I want to see "Vader killing people" but, because...
(a) I think that Obi-Wan's journey has come to a good end with the 6th episode and they'd only mess it up
(b) Hayden showed some real potential for diving deeper into Vader's psyche at the time, especially adding Hayden's frequent comments about Padmé and how the fate of his wife might have affected Vaderkin.
Switch parts. Focus on Vader with, at best, a supporting role for Obi-Wan.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 1, 2022 13:03:35 GMT
I'd be more interested in a separate Vader show than a second season of Kenobi and not because I want to see "Vader killing people" but, because...
One of the core principles of Star Wars is "use Darth Vader sparingly" is it not? While I love the character, I can't see how you'd stretch him to a 6-10 episode run, as has happened for Obi-Wan. He's not a character that's given a lot of dialogue in the films or animation, and you'd have to totally change that with him as the lead. Perhaps it could be overcome with help from significant flashback and dream sequences, but maybe not.
It would be very much be hack and slash Vader. I don't see how they'd tone that down, there's so many fans clamouring for it, including Star Wars Theory who I usually agree with.
If Obi-Wan returns, I don't see how Vader will be a part of it. Which is a shame, but they really did tie a knot on the relationship between the two characters in the 6th episode. It would be cool to see more of Christensen on screen with McGregor.
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Post by Samnz on Sept 1, 2022 13:42:25 GMT
I don't think using Darth Vader sparingly is a principle, but using him effectively is. I am not talking about a show that's dragged out for 6-10 episodes. They couldn't even fill six episode for Obi-Wan Kenobi, too many episodes were a core factor in it being a part-disappointment for many. Make it a movie or a series with three or four episodes, but then again, I know it's Disney and Disney turns everything into pointlessness by extenting the thinnest material to multiple episodes and releasing episodes on a weekly bias for monetary reasons. It's a lost case, I guess.
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Post by Darkslayer on Sept 1, 2022 14:43:48 GMT
Darkslayer Do you think a second season is on the cards? I'm not sure, I don't believe it was their intention. They really wanted to play it conservatively with Obi-Wan, almost like they were afraid of another Solo like disaster. It's all bizarre when you consider how they extend series based on much less beloved characters like Bobba Fett. Ewan seems like he wants to do it. There’s an obvious plotline too with Qui-Gon teaching him how to Force Ghost. Plus Maul is still running around out there. There’s your antagonist. I think it’s a no-brainer. Should be a movie. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 1, 2022 23:37:05 GMT
I don't think using Darth Vader sparingly is a principle, but using him effectively is. I am not talking about a show that's dragged out for 6-10 episodes. They couldn't even fill six episode for Obi-Wan Kenobi, too many episodes were a core factor in it being a part-disappointment for many. Make it a movie or a series with three or four episodes, but then again, I know it's Disney and Disney turns everything into pointlessness by extenting the thinnest material to multiple episodes and releasing episodes on a weekly bias for monetary reasons. It's a lost case, I guess.
What?! I heard some people say 6 episodes wasn't enough. Long at how a lot of top cable TV series run for 13.
I totally disagree with this thread's lionising of the movie format. The original script for an Obi-Wan film didn't have Darth Vader or Anakin in it. A good series can please all. Too many people wanted the Obi-Wan Kenobi series to fail and were invested in it doing so with their stupid leaks.
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Post by Samnz on Sept 2, 2022 5:43:17 GMT
I don't think using Darth Vader sparingly is a principle, but using him effectively is. I am not talking about a show that's dragged out for 6-10 episodes. They couldn't even fill six episode for Obi-Wan Kenobi, too many episodes were a core factor in it being a part-disappointment for many. Make it a movie or a series with three or four episodes, but then again, I know it's Disney and Disney turns everything into pointlessness by extenting the thinnest material to multiple episodes and releasing episodes on a weekly bias for monetary reasons. It's a lost case, I guess.
What?! I heard some people say 6 episodes wasn't enough. Long at how a lot of top cable TV series run for 13. Yes, but other people's opinions are not mine and, for me, episode 4 of OWK alone is proof that they didn't have enough material for six episodes. They were beginning to repeat storylines even within just six episodes... I'm aware that many series run for 13 episodes, there were shows who pulled off an (then standard) 22-episode order fantastically. Those shows are not Obi-Wan Kenobi, though  I mean I don't hate the series or anything, but it's been just mediocre in my opinion. |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 3, 2022 22:49:43 GMT
there were shows who pulled off an (then standard) 22-episode order fantastically.
Were there? On US national television? I guess Dallas and Lost were big, but then there was a lot of make it up as you go along too, and don't forget Law and Order zzzzzzzzzz
Now I did watch Criminal Minds from time to time, I don't want to seem too snooty. 8.1 on IMDB, which is way above Obi-Wan  |
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Post by Cryogenic on Sept 3, 2022 23:27:09 GMT
What?! I heard some people say 6 episodes wasn't enough. Long at how a lot of top cable TV series run for 13. Yes, but other people's opinions are not mine and, for me, episode 4 of OWK alone is proof that they didn't have enough material for six episodes. They were beginning to repeat storylines even within just six episodes... Yep -- not to mention, in that very episode you mention, ripping off a recent Star Wars video game, Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order. Don't get me wrong, I kinda like it when worlds collide, but they weren't very subtle about it, only adding even more to the padded-out, repetitious feel of the series at that point. Moreover, to address the notion of six episodes not being long enough: There's a difference between length and depth. If an undertaking is lacking in the latter, or is just poorly constructed in general, then even a short film or television series can end up feeling too long, inelegant, tedious; and redundant. Solid storytelling consists in making the most out of one's chosen format. George Lucas himself told the story of Star Wars -- AKA The Rise, Fall, and Redemption of Anakin Skywalker -- in only six movies, and he did it with such vision and brilliance that we are all changed because of it. The Obi-Wan series was obviously trying to mirror and pay tribute to that achievement a little bit, but in a relatively clunky and whimpering way. George really maxed out in all areas. The Obi-Wan series, in my opinion, did not. While television often falls down compared to cinema, it offers some advantages, such as being able to create a strong sense of parasocial sympathy and identification in the viewer, by allowing for the development of characters and certain themes and tropes at great length, salted with a visionary or semi-visionary quality to the setting and the storytelling. Here, I certainly think of the various installments of Star Trek (albeit not so much the new shows), which all had their limitations and their quirks, but were very capably pulled off all the same. There was an appealing domesticity to the various Star Trek television shows, yet also an undeniable otherworldiness due to the fantastic sci-fi setting. And the writing, for the most part, was robust. Throw on any season of any Star Trek show, pre-2000s, and I guarantee you will run into a compelling episode or two; with even the drabber, safer ones all offering something. Political intrigue, sci-fi mystery, comedy, romance, a psychological conundrum -- it's all there. Obi-Wan Kenobi, in its best moments, might have achieved an operatic grace, and even a touch of psychological depth, but the writing lacked the intelligence, wit, and sparkle of Star Trek at its best, and there weren't really any memorable, well-defined characters outside of Obi-Wan, Vader, and maybe Leia. What's more, all those characters owe their existence and fascination to George Lucas, not to any heroic struggle or insight on the part of the series creators. It's kinda crass how GL still gets bashed for Jar Jar, Watto, and the Neimoidians being alleged "racist stereotypes" (*vomits*), but there isn't one new character of their merit or distinction in the Obi-Wan series -- in any Disney Star Wars project, really. Thus, in a way, Star Wars isn't really Star Wars anymore. |
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Post by Samnz on Sept 4, 2022 11:44:02 GMT
there were shows who pulled off an (then standard) 22-episode order fantastically. Were there? On US national television? I guess Dallas and Lost were big, but then there was a lot of make it up as you go along too, and don't forget Law and Order zzzzzzzzzz Now I did watch Criminal Minds from time to time, I don't want to seem too snooty. 8.1 on IMDB, which is way above Obi-Wan I've actually never seen Lost, but that might be an example. I still think that the first season of Heroes was fantastic and that season consisted of 23 episodes. I might have to add that I am probably a bit old-fashioned in the sense that I quite enjoy a few "standalone episodes" within a longer season when they're open about it. Sticking to the sci-fi stuff, I also liked watching Fringe pretty much. They found a good way of merging mythology based episodes that moved the overall story forward with standalones that allowed the characters to grow and reflect. I think a lot of current tv makers don't allow their shows to breathe because they want everything to be overly serialized, which leads - for me - to a lot of stuff feeling either rushed or (emotionally) unearned. That is also due to modern audiences deeming anything that doesn't "advance the main story" unnecessary, missing the point that what they consider "filler" have great potential for character work. That, ironically, leads to another kind of "filler stuff" when a heavily sealized format keeps running in circles, which OWK fell guilty even with just six episodes. Cryogenic said it right: Length does not equal depth and quality is achievable with any number of episodes. I don't like the current mindset that a series must be better, because seeing a lot of stuff makes me realize that most of these filmmakers don't have the competence to make a concise movie that is emotionally and intellectually rewarding. Lucas achieved that with his not overly long six movies. |
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Post by Samnz on Sept 8, 2022 17:56:56 GMT
Having watched "A Jedi's Return" today, I can reassure each of you that this Disney production at least is unequivocally positive. Even Ewan refrains from ambiguity and instead claims he's always loved playing Obi-Wan. They also don't bitch about CGI in an attempt to promote their "Volume" (actually, they don't delve into that stuff at all). It's also very appreciative of George with admiring words coming from Deborah Chow, Ewan and - of course - Hayden. Hayden mentions George many times and further cements his own status as our MVP.
I was fast forwarding when the production focused on the series' new characters like Reva and the Grand Inquisitor, but there's plenty of footage with Ewan and Hayden. So it's a bit long, but enjoyable for Prequel fans. There is also footage from the making of TPM that I don't remember having seen before, which is George explaining to Ewan where Obi-Wan stands at the end of Episode I.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 8, 2022 20:07:57 GMT
Listening to Hayden appreciate George is my cup of tea EXACTLY.
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Post by Somny on Sept 8, 2022 23:37:39 GMT
45 seconds of zen.
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Post by Seeker of the Whills on Sept 9, 2022 15:15:51 GMT
This is pretty incredible. Gives off the same sort of feeling to me as the flashback sparring match between Ani and Obi. Just seeing these two guys together again as friends and the whole appreciation for the prequels is amazing. There indeed is footage that has never before been seen from the making of TPM. Some very surprising and interesting insight into Lucas' thoughts on the character of Obi-Wan. God I wish they would release all the footage, because there must be loads of it. Stuff like Lucas going over the characters with the other actors. I would kill to see footage of Lucas explaining Anakin to Hayden like he did with Obi-Wan to Ewan. I could listen all day to him talking about his universe. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 9, 2022 20:19:30 GMT
If I worked at Lucasfilm, I'd be using that big ass screen for Star Wars marathons.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 12, 2022 3:59:26 GMT
Wow, Hayden is getting a massive focus on the behind the scenes documentary, I'm loving it. It's easy to forget that his own screentime isn't that big in the series, he's probably barely within the top 10, and yet it feels like he's no. 2 only to Ewan. I suppose his character of Anakin-Vader really is.
Hayden may have more lines in A Jedi's Return, but something feels like Disney isn't quite done with him yet.
"He is still the Chosen One"
That's our man setting the record straight! I hope Abrams was listening.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 12, 2022 4:20:24 GMT
Wow, Hayden is getting a massive focus on the behind the scenes documentary, I'm loving it. It's easy to forget that his own screentime isn't that big in the series, he's probably barely within the top 10, and yet it feels like he's no. 2 only to Ewan. I suppose his character of Anakin-Vader really is.
Hayden may have more lines in A Jedi's Return, but something feels like Disney isn't quite done with him yet.
"He is still the Chosen One"
That's our man setting the record straight! I hope Abrams was listening.
That was my favourite part. Re-iterating for so many who are still clearly confused about it. And citing his source as George Lucas, no less! |
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Sept 12, 2022 4:42:24 GMT
That was my favourite part. Re-iterating for so many who are still clearly confused about it. And citing his source as George Lucas, no less!
Mine too. He doesn't mince words either, there's none of that squirmy, mealy-mouthed, half-apologetic crap Cryo despises so much in what we might term "bad PT apologetics". I don't think Hayden has any vendetta with the sequels, but is fun to think it given how he emphasises the point.
They never talk about Vader's line that he killed Anakin though, do they? Ewan does mention that Obi-Wan allows himself to forgive himself, but it's that little conversation with the partially unmasked Sith Lord and his former Jedi brother that gets him there.
I know the answer to whether they gave Hayden the full ROTS Jedi mullet now too, and it turns out they did. Awesome to see it, even if its behind the scenes footage. They went to a lot of effort on minor details, in fairness.
I love that Doug Chiang, an old-school PT veteran, collaborated with Hayden on this.
Anakin is the Chosen One: he defects from the Empire, kills his Sith master, and pulls the whole thing down, allowing the light to win. He sacrifices his own life for his son and indeed the good of the whole galaxy - if that's not Chosen Oney or messianic, nothing is. The timing may not have been punctual enough for Mace, but it still happens.
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Post by smittysgelato on Sept 12, 2022 4:55:04 GMT
I think a lot of people take issue with the fact that Anakin makes a mess of things before fulfilling the prophecy, so they're right there with Mace Windu.
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I mean I don't hate the series or anything, but it's been just mediocre in my opinion. 
