Debunking anti-PT articles/videos

Yeah, Linkara's negative videos will be critiquing the prequels, but I'm not posting them here to encourage trilogy drama. But he is a contrarian nonetheless.

And yes. I will definitely help getting Cryo's work around some of the prequel appreciation subs.

But speaking of all these treatises going in length to defend the PT movies (TPM's got A Study in Fanboy Stupidity, and AOTC has Cryo's work), is there anything like it for Revenge of the Sith or TCW naysayers?

Wow! Many thanks! I'm definitely being put on the spot now. I feel I have to up my game. 


Well, it doesn't have it yet -- but I guess that's the aim...

Not aware of anything for ROTS or TCW. However, I'm sure another fan could put something together, all these years later, with so many essays, videos, behind-the-scenes pieces, and insights to draw from.

I don't think the RLM reviews of the Prequels are supposed to be taken seriously. Though that crew genuinely doesn't like the PT, I think those 'reviews' are meant to be caricaturized spoofs on PT hate. Which makes it all the more concerning when people do take them seriously.
I came into the internet SW fandom community a little late and missed all the drama over this video series, so when I first saw them I didn't think there was much of a big deal about it. Only to later come to learn of how much drama they stirred up. So much so that you can't even mention RLM at TFN.

So in my mind, debunking that series is kind of a waste of time. It's like debunking an Onion article or something.

Exactly.

There have been so many bashing/ranting videos over the years, specifically targeted at the PT, I've lost count. Even more annoying are positive videos that manage to sneak in little swipes against our beloved trilogy. You're enjoying your cocktail and pizza on the beach until you get divebombed by a seagull. Just not on.



Ah, yes...

Remember Pyro's thread about RLM on TFN?

(Beware three-letter acronyms that aren't the names of Star Wars movies)

boards.theforce.net/threads/rlm-provides-a-brilliant-satire-of-prequel-bashing-not-an-actual-critique-of-the-prequels.50031238/

I equated Mike Stoklasa in there to George Carlin -- a generous equation, but YouTube is the perfect platform for the dissemination of humourous, acerbic content that is meant to elucidate truth (albeit, at times, crummy, low-grade truth), and at the same time, throw you slightly off-balance. As I said in Pyro's thread: "In both cases, there seem to be saturnine shades of self-mockery at work, and just the very extremes they adopt(ed) do, on some intrinsic level, appear to make their negativity narratives self-refuting."

A couple more observations from that same post of mine:

- "I think it is more the case that [Stoklasa] is satirizing the excessive nature of fan complaining, while still signalling that he understands the malcontent, and wishes to make sympathetic criticisms behind the mask of Plinkett, creating something compulsively watchable."

- "Occasionally, if you watch/listen carefully enough, it may be possible to tease out some clue that Stoklasa is using Plinkett to upbraid and ridicule people's consumerist, herd-like ways. For instance, there is at least one moment in his TPM review where he randomly avers that he doesn't like it when things change, as if he has some deep-seated, autistic resistance to the prequels a priori. This certainly puts a different spin on his entire review, but it's difficult to ascertain whether this is a real hint of his underlying motives, or just a breadcrumb, a nick-nack, casually thrown out for the in-the-moment spoof factor."

Overall, I would say enough material has now come out from the RLM people that suggests they don't care greatly for the prequels -- except in the way that all sci-fi/fantasy nerds seem to: the prequels are their favourite whipping boy when they're bored, desperate to appear smart, or they have something to get off their chest about some other movie or TV show, and they can't resist making a prequel reference or ignominious comparison of some kind. Yet because they went to great lengths to excoriate the films in their original reviews, and because these were put out at a time when YouTube was still fairly new and long "review" specimens were something of a novelty, they managed to gain attention and strike gold. A billion eye-roll emojis aren't enough to convey my disdain for people calling them authoritative and proclaiming that they were a "masterclass" in filmmaking. That said, they are funny people, and you're better off not taking them that seriously. Gonzo/jamming humour -- playful chaos -- has its place in the universe. It's the Jar Jar lover in me. 



Thank you. And, yes -- it's free of such effluvia. Some very general criticisms of modern pathologies are in there, but not to the point it becomes distracting. My rebuttal is intended as more of a classical polemic of prequel-bashing (or against prequel-bashing) circa 2012. There are modern, up-to-date citations in there (or a few, anyway), but these are in service of rebutting the attacks in the original EW article. I'm not trying to make wider points against broader social phenomena; or, at least, it isn't my intention to get tangled in such weeds. The main focus is in defending AOTC and Lucas' artistry as valuable things in their own right. Though I'll let the reader be the judge.


Yep. I think people have grow a little tired of prequel bashing on YouTube in recent years. The focus has shifted to the Disney films -- and with good reason. Prequel bashing is old territory, though there are plenty of places (as this thread attests to) where it is still occurring. I agree that we should be a bit more discerning in where we place our attention. That said, if any PT fan wants to stick up for the movies in a given context, please do so, and do it guilt-free. No-one is wrong to defend them. But there's also wisdom in choosing one's battles. The Internet's a big place and life is short.

AOTC suffers from its old-fashioned style. The movie is extremely beautiful, but, I think, nowadays, this style is simply unpopular in our vulgar times. I saw comments with words "no chemistry" or "boring", but how can it be boring if there is a destruction of Padme's ship in the beginning, for example. "No chemistry"... I always thought that the love story of Skywalker parents must be pure, "true love", what "chemistry"?

It is Star Wars, eventually. George Lucas' space opera. It is not Pretty Woman, Gone Girl, Basic Instinct, Showgirls or Closer.

Also, people can compare two scenes from Armageddon and AOTC. I liked Armageddon (I even recorded it from TV on VHS), but, unlike AOTC, its love scene on the grass is ultra-cringy. Love scene before rocket launch is also ultra-cringy. Another case when Lucas is better than Michael Bay, however, Bay isn't a great director. Also, written by JJ Abrams.

Good observations. AOTC is both melodramatic and even a touch medieval. Heck, we even have Samuel Jackson going medieval on some Battle Droids' metallic behinds in the arena. 

"This party's over."
"I don't think so."

That's hard. And gloriously comic-book-y.

He even knocks over a sun machine. A Battle Droid with a sun-form. Die, you divine light impostor, die! Super sweet moment.

The middle prequel is the nidus of the trilogy. It's Star Wars wired into Nicholas Ray by way of Ray Harryhausen and chivalric romance, seasoned with neo-noir bricolage, a creepy sci-fi/gumshoe detective plot, mad action satire, political espionage, and a quietly enveloping sense of Orphic gloom. It's also a picturesque travelogue pulsating with digital weirdness. In short, it's my mind of movie.

And yes, of course:

The romance should be raw and awkward. It's the early days of Darth freakin' Vader we're talking about here. A guy flitting between his eros (life/libido) and thanatos (death/destruction) drives. He's a callow Force artiste and this is his Bildungsroman. Episodes I, II, and III. The building-up and the unmaking of Anakin Skywalker. Epic kaleidoscopic adventure of the self. "This is tense." Why wouldn't the middle be all kinds of gloomy, glitchy, and crazy?



You're right about this. They legitimated the amorphous disdain for the prequels, which was like a tribe without a leader, a nation without a flag, and brought a frenzied focus and (pseudo)intellectual justification for the whole thing. Suddenly, bashers had a vade mecum and could point to that guy over there, or just make loose reference to the mere existence of those videos, as if that substituted for and superseded all argument. Not that these people ever needed much of an excuse, mind you. But the RLM videos gave them a concrete tool to bypass all discussion, inflaming their conceit, allowing them to believe someone had put out the final word on the prequels. All else was just detail or distraction. RLM had cracked the prequel nut and that was the end of it.

The boldened part about taking them seriously was in reference only to PT haters. And my last two sentences were in reference to nowadays, in response to Moonchild.

Like I said, I missed all that drama. And I'm not speaking to that. It's just if someone came up to me at some point between now and five years ago (when I first stuck my toe into the wonderful world of SW internet culture) and started quoting Plinkett I would... mostly just try to say what Cryo said, but also try to correct their misconception in question... if possible. From my contemporary, peace-time, armchair pov; ultimately the problem lies with the quoters more than the source. I was actually planning to say that they were duped by their own caricaturization. Who's more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him? But no, not defenders. I understand ya gotta do what ya gotta do. And serious-taking times call for serious measures.

I was only saying I was surprised to discover how many haters had taken them seriously. When, with my fresh eyes, I saw and still see them as a satirical social commentary taken to the Nth degree on the PT hate culture while also a mockery of those who don't understand filmmaking (but think they do), or at least not Lucas' style, to which Stoklasa even admitted he's never seen his other movies. They're basically the flat Earth videos of the SW community.

(I've only seen the Plinkett videos once, five years ago).

Moonshield


some of the comments are Infuriating  Including the crap that he Made the Special Editions so he wouldn's have to Pay His Ex-Wife along with the BS that she saved Star Wars in the Editing Room? Have I Mentioned She Hasn't done anything Since Star Wars? 
along with one saying Disney Revitalized The Franchise Which is Bullsh*t!