rayo1
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Post by rayo1 on Feb 9, 2020 23:44:42 GMT
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Post by Alexrd on Feb 10, 2020 20:00:46 GMT
Now this is funny. Whoever wrote that clearly doesn't like the PT but he does address the weak arguments and misconceptions made by some "apologists". For example, equating amorality (or moral greyness) with depth, which is a fallacy. The movies are deep, but not because good and evil are not well defined. They are well defined, and that doesn't make them superficial or lacking depth.
The Jedi are another hot topic. For those that care, people should really pay attention to what the creator says about his creation instead of following the bandwagon of blaming the Jedi. But even ignoring Lucas's comments, from the movies alone, how can anyone blame the Jedi for anything bad that happens in them? That's some of the most twisted logic I've ever seen in fandom, and it's spread everywhere like a plague.
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Post by mikeximus on Feb 11, 2020 6:23:47 GMT
The disgust towards the Death Star in Vader is originated by the simple fact that it gives power to simple bureaucrats (I.e. ordinary people with no special powers) the opportunity to think that they are almighty. I think this is more than clear in the little conflict with general Motti in episode 4 (sorcerer ways vs. technological progress). It is a technological trick and so far not real power. Vader try to protect the battle station as it is Imperial creation as Cryo said but it doesn't mean he likes it. In ROTJ he clearly states that building it at time is important but he never express admiration to it, he is more concerned that the rebel are regrouping new fleet around Sullust and so on. It is a technological terror, a freak however is Emperor's favorite techno freak. Now the goalposts are being shifted slightly. The original spark to this conversation is that because Vader did not actually give the command to destroy Alderraan, his level of culpability in the destruction of an entire planet is less than Tarkin, who gave the command. The subsequent comments/remarks suggested that Vader sat in silent defiance of the Death Star and the destruction of Alderran, which made him a coward. Every single one of Vader’s actions in ANH suggest the complete opposite of this. Hell he even holds Leia in place to make her watch. He’s not holding her to comfort her. Vader does not run into the conference room and yells his technological terror remark and than runs out. Again, there is context to what and why he says what he says. His dialogue does not exist in a vacuum. He is listening to a conversation about how the Death Star is to be used to terrorize the galaxy. It is a technological terror. Vader does not speak up until Motti calls the Death Star the “ultimate power”. This is when Vader is offended, Not because they are talking about destroying planets, or debating some philosophy on the use of technology. He is offended because someone dared called the Death Star the “ultimate power”. This is when Vader literally, not metaphorically, says that the power to destroy planets is nothing, it is meaningless. Because he has a power to do far worse than that. He doesn’t care if they destroy planets, go destroy all the planets you want, just don’t call the Death Star the ultimate power in the universe. That is not Vader saying he hates technology, or the power technology gives others. That isn’t Vader saying that he dislikes the Death Star, or its purpose, or what it does. That is Vader literally saying that they can destroy all the planets they want to terrorize people using the Death Star, but, he can terrorize people with a simple hand gesture. Which he demonstrates, and every person at that table was terrorized by Vader’s demonstration. He did not need a spaceship, or a sword, or to physically touch anyone, he merely made a hand gesture and he terrorized everyone in that room! That does not mean, I repeat, does not mean, Vader disliked the Death Star, disliked technology, thought destroying planets was wrong, etc etc. That was merely Vader showing he did not need the Death Star to do what they were talking about doing, and because of that the Death Star was not the ultimate power in the universe. Darth Vader is the embodiment of the Empire. He is the technology that replaces humanity! That is what he represents in the OT. No more humanity, just cold technology, cold machinery. He doesn’t care about destroying planets, he’s not sitting in silent defiance. He’s protecting it. When he’s not in the Death Star, he’s riding around in another piece of technology terrorizing people, his Tie Fighter. If he’s not in that he’s in his shuttle, if he’s not in that he’s in his Star Destroyer, if he’s not in that he’s in his Super Star Destroyer. Vader, with his mobile iron lung, mechanical breathing, is the embodiment of technology overtaking humanity. He doesn’t hate the Death Star or its purpose, he’s merely showing off. Edit: Just to make an analogy. If you said to me that you have an car that can go 200 mph, and called it the fastest thing in the universe, and I stepped in and said, “don’t be too proud of your automobile” because it’s speed is no match for my jet plane” does that mean I hate your car, or the purpose of your car? No, I’m merely telling you that I have something better so you don’t have the fastest thing in the universe.
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Post by jppiper on Feb 13, 2020 2:53:27 GMT
Alexrd Just read some idiot comments on youtube one saying TPM was unnecessary and saying the prequels should have started with Anakin already in the Jedi Temple another one whined about Darth Maul's demise and trashed Count Dooku calling him the most unimportant and unnecessary character in the franchise will these idiots ever learn that Maul was never meant to be a Major Character in The PT? These People really Piss Me Off!
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jtn90
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Post by jtn90 on Feb 20, 2020 14:22:27 GMT
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Post by Cryogenic on Feb 20, 2020 18:48:43 GMT
When I see this comments I think:What people think a well executed movie is?Is recetnly accepted the idea that the themes presented in the prequels are good but bad executed,A well acted,scripted,and paced movie that follows the steps of guides about making script tells is enoght to make a movie good? these comments are frustrating specially because they praise a part of the prequels to then sh*tting on another,for example the phrase "Hayden Christensen did a good job considering the material he have to work with". It's almost like a form of abusive love. Love with a million caveats; death by a thousand cuts. People don't seem to get that the prequels have a hyper-specific construction, tonality, ambience, and depth. There is a much tighter and much more intricate machine at work than people seem to realise. The specificity of it is the point. www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/02/star-wars-george-lucas-story“The interesting thing about Star Wars—and I didn’t ever really push this very far, because it’s not really that important—but there’s a lot going on there that most people haven’t come to grips with yet. But when they do, they will find it’s a much more intricately made clock than most people would imagine.”Qui-Gon turning his head and then that long-necked Jedi Council member...
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Post by Pyrogenic on Feb 21, 2020 22:35:53 GMT
Has anyone else noticed that absolutely none of these prequel-bashing cowards have ever dared to even think of mustering the courage to repeat their criticisms directly to the faces of any of the artists involved in creating the movies?
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Post by Cryogenic on Feb 21, 2020 23:30:38 GMT
Has anyone else noticed that absolutely none of these prequel-bashing cowards have ever dared to even think of mustering the courage to repeat their criticisms directly to the faces of any of the artists involved in creating the movies? Well, they have the Internet...
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Post by Cryogenic on Feb 22, 2020 12:56:36 GMT
Has anyone else noticed that absolutely none of these prequel-bashing cowards have ever dared to even think of mustering the courage to repeat their criticisms directly to the faces of any of the artists involved in creating the movies? www.pantograph-punch.com/post/rom-harre-philosophy-interview"All we have to do is to show people that they are trapped in the silken but fragile shrouds of a pattern of discourse conventions."
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Mar 2, 2020 13:26:07 GMT
This is signalling, plain and simple - of the "I have good taste in cinema" variety. It's quite a common psychological phenomena within close-knit groups: you say, or rather you parrot, the accepted wisdom in order to maintain your status. In the context of the web it often devolves into what is known as a "circle jerk".
I would advise not replying to these kinds of people. There's a strong chance they don't fully believe what they're even saying. Again, what's important here is signalling to other members of the group what you apparently believe - what you actually think is beyond the point.
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Post by Cryogenic on Mar 3, 2020 1:13:09 GMT
This is signalling, plain and simple - of the "I have good taste in cinema" variety. It's quite a common psychological phenomena within close-knit groups: you say, or rather you parrot, the accepted wisdom in order to maintain your status. In the context of the web it often devolves into what is known as a "circle jerk". I would advise not replying to these kinds of people. There's a strong chance they don't fully believe what they're even saying. Again, what's important here is signalling to other members of the group what you apparently believe - what you actually think is beyond the point.
With regard to the highlighted part: Yes. Stemming from insecurity and a subconscious need to fit in (as you outlined). And laziness is probably playing a part, too. They've barely bothered to read the supplementary material that really counts: fan analysis and Lucas' own interviews and accounts regarding his thought processes, including his fascinations and themes. Instead, they're simply parroting (as you said) the accepted/received wisdom, and then congratulating themselves for how profoundly cowardly, clone-like, and desperately unoriginal they are. Humans are such an interesting disease. Along similar lines, a classic quote from Francis Bacon: www.constitution.org/bacon/nov_org.htm
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Post by Pyrogenic on Mar 17, 2020 19:33:53 GMT
I have seen that exact same critical phrase pop up multiple times - ATTACK OF THE CLONES. OK, so the PT is "poorly executed" compared to...what other movies?! Now, this may be because I have a background in cinema studies/comparative literature, but...it's obvious to me that the typical haters are not only failing to grasp the implementation of aesthetics in general as what the word "execution" in this context refers to (ignoring for the moment their obvious poor taste ), they are also not actually placing parts of the PT side-by-side with anything at all. Their small subjective claims are made in a vacuum with no relationship whatsoever to the objective infomational complexity of the movies as symbolic records/documents...that can be juxtaposed with others as well. Why do we even let ourselves become irked by these people's comments? Look at that image. Is that "poor execution" OR is a brief, spiteful, anonymous, parroted jab that THAT is "poor execution" the REAL "poor execution" at work here? None of those dorks could ever create such an image in their current mindset. It's so ridiculously far beyond them that they probably don't know what else to do, honestly. Jealousy based on a phantom menace fuels their lazy hatred to apparently no end. I'm beginning to think that their only idea of execution is "put to death." Yes, the PT is poorly executed in that sense. It is alive and well. Choose to not take their statements personally nor seriously.
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Post by Moonshield on Apr 3, 2020 12:32:43 GMT
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Post by Moonshield on Apr 6, 2020 17:33:11 GMT
I want to debunk Plinkett's first TPM review (2009). It is stupid, but looks "competent". I've noticed two things. Many people declare Sarah Connor as a great character. They repeat Plinkett's opinion from that review? It can be disproved by one fun fact: when this "great" character has become main in Dark Fate, the movie has become a box office bomb.
Second thing: Solo is an overrated character. His movie has also become a box office bomb.
People from RedLetterMedia think that they are competent and George Lucas isn't, but really George Lucas is competent and they are not.
Also, an article from RLM on the top of this page is extremely stupid. Who listen this guys? Tomatoes?
Well, if you want, listen to them. Your movies will become box office bombs. Personally I prefer George Lucas.
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Post by jppiper on May 1, 2020 0:01:25 GMT
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 2, 2020 20:24:44 GMT
I want to debunk Plinkett's first TPM review (2009). It is stupid, but looks "competent". I've noticed two things. Many people declare Sarah Connor as a great character. They repeat Plinkett's opinion from that review? It can be disproved by one fun fact: when this "great" character has become main in Dark Fate, the movie has become a box office bomb.
Second thing: Solo is an overrated character. His movie has also become a box office bomb.
People from RedLetterMedia think that they are competent and George Lucas isn't, but really George Lucas is competent and they are not.
Also, an article from RLM on the top of this page is extremely stupid. Who listen this guys? Tomatoes?
Well, if you want, listen to them. Your movies will become box office bombs. Personally I prefer George Lucas.
RLM are no better than the cranks at "CinemaSins". They are masters of the art of cynicism, and so can never be bothered to show how films, or the Hollywood system at large, could be improved. They may offer some insights into obnoxious fanboy culture, but that, unfortunately, is it.
I'd love to hear your repudiation.
Speaking of which, Cryogenic sure is running late with his AOTC treatise....
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Post by Cryogenic on May 2, 2020 20:33:06 GMT
Speaking of which, Cryogenic sure is running late with his AOTC treatise.... I decided to publish it on the film's 21st anniversary. A bit pretentious, maybe, but the date is fast approaching. That means I've literally got two weeks to put those finishing touches on it. Thanks for your continued interest. I swear it's going to come out this time!
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on May 2, 2020 20:38:25 GMT
Speaking of which, Cryogenic sure is running late with his AOTC treatise.... I decided to publish it on the film's 21st anniversary. A bit pretentious, maybe, but the date is fast approaching. That means I've literally got two weeks to put those finishing touches on it. Thanks for your continued interest. I swear it's going to come out this time!
Honestly, just give me an earlier draft from December, when you were last at it. I have little interest in constant revisions, especially in light of recent drama.
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Post by Cryogenic on May 2, 2020 20:50:36 GMT
I decided to publish it on the film's 21st anniversary. A bit pretentious, maybe, but the date is fast approaching. That means I've literally got two weeks to put those finishing touches on it. Thanks for your continued interest. I swear it's going to come out this time! Honestly, just give me an earlier draft from December, when you were last at it. I have little interest in constant revisions, especially in light of recent drama.
I can send you a taster. But it still needs formatting correctly. I am actually trying to avoid revisions. I left some gaps after Christmas, and I'm still trying to fill them in. That's about all, aside from some small nips and tucks, and then making sure all the formatting is complete and that it looks presentable. You'll be relieved to hear, for the purposes of my rebuttal, I have almost zero inclination to refer to Disney or recent drama. Now, there are some Disney references, but you'll see why those references are there when you read the rebuttal. This one is free of recontextualisation! Deliberately so.
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rayo1
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Posts: 65
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Post by rayo1 on May 2, 2020 21:32:04 GMT
Honestly, just give me an earlier draft from December, when you were last at it. I have little interest in constant revisions, especially in light of recent drama.
I can send you a taster. But it still needs formatting correctly. I am actually trying to avoid revisions. I left some gaps after Christmas, and I'm still trying to fill them in. That's about all, aside from some small nips and tucks, and then making sure all the formatting is complete and that it looks presentable. You'll be relieved to hear, for the purposes of my rebuttal, I have almost zero inclination to refer to Disney or recent drama. Now, there are some Disney references, but you'll see why those references are there when you read the rebuttal. This one is free of recontextualisation! Deliberately so. Looking forward to it. Given that a...certain YouTuber that I hate will soon be making anti-prequel videos (he's an ST fan, btw), this'll be very cathartic. I'll make sure to post Linkara's videos on this thread as they come out. I look forward to how everyone here responds to them.
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