Debunking anti-PT articles/videos

Oof. Y'know that guy I talked about who hated TCW? Well it escalated to such an unreasonable point where I had to delete the entire damn conversation.

I mean...who talks like this to another person?! Who makes arguments like this?! WHY WOULD SOMEONE THINK IT'S OKAY TO QUESTION OTHERS' INTELLIGENCE JUST BECAUSE THEY LIKE SOMETHING THAT ANOTHER DOESN'T?!

WARNING: FOUL LANGUAGE AHEAD
"My post ended by saying "let's shake on it" because it was clear we wouldn't agree. I had said some stuff comparing him to Plinkett, and rightfully so because he was making assumptions left and right like he was the god of SW."

Him: "Let's shake on it when I'm done here. >Hard facts George hated the finale Bruh come on I never said he would hate it, Filoni said in that featurette that George wouldn't like it, you clearly have seen it so I don't know. If it means anything Filoni was 100% right IN THIS CASE, and that George's preference for the big loud ending was wrong, I'm just not the one who's main argument for TCW being good is "M-muh George Lucas" >Comparing me to plinkett Chew on a donkey's unwashed schlong, at least I have the decency to call you dumb and just that, I'm not the one trying to draw empty comparisons to make you look bad, I'm just calling you dumb. You claim to be above insulting but here you are saying I'm that worthless brainlet because I made a statement I backed up with examples >Lucas' OT mistakes "Jedi don't fight" Gonna need a citation on that one chief can't remember it for the life of me and neither does google "Leia mother" Random throwaway line "Obi-Wan found Anakin" Don't remember this one either, but please explain to me how throwaway lines like these can compare to character arcs getting shelved and characters getting revived for no reason. And that jab about "I'm not allowed to make continuity rules" Shut up stupid, I'm not making any great declarations, I'm asking why the emperor's running around naked. These are huge mistakes that screw up the entire timeline that George created >George not bored look he did blah blah George's influence in ESB is apparent and while he didn't technically write much in it, he literally saved that movie in editing and there's stories out there about all he did just to make sure that movie survived THAT ARE DOCUMENTED AND HE IS CREDITED FOR. Find me a single thing in TCW he's actually credited for big guy, stop playing this dumb game >bruh you literally plinkett Plinkett's a dishonest, brain dead, phallus-addicted prick that's it. Stop comparing me to him prick, I'm not equating you to Cosmonaut for loving TCW and being as dumb as he is. >Lucas wanted Fine just ignore every example I've given you, dumbass. You can do that, and the reason why he got so upset about TFA was because TCW was just a stupid show, one that he had as much as an influence on as Droids, Ewoks, and the good Clone Wars by Genndy, while TFA was a literal ripoff of his ideas from a hack director after he'd been lied to about the direction Star Wars was going in. TCW is bad yes, but it's leagues above the Sequels and I'm infinitely more forgiving towards them in comparison to the Sequels, there's no point in bringing them up as they are universally hated and rightfully so. And "what Lucas wanted" was for Ahsoka to die. ("George has been very full on the Ahsoka dies camp" -Quote from Fatman filoni) Filoni admits this in a featurette that I can't hunt down directly but managed to in this video www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujRvFatw2c8&t=6s Watch from the 6:10 mark, he says that Lucas wanted Ahsoka to die. Sorry Reddit I didn't realize you wanted to have a debate over this with citations and sources stamped firmly on a google docs sheet, here I am laughing at a TCW fan who thinks me throwing jabs at him for his lack of taste means I'm attacking his horrible show "part of canon that makes a trilogy of films" Nice slip up there buddy. The prequels are good enough without TCW thank you, and if you really want media that turns the Prequels from a trilogy of good movies into a fantastic universe, check out the EU, because you obviously haven't if you like TCW And don't apologize to some dummy on the internet for having a slap fight with him. I'm sorry that you like TCW and have been tainted by it, I pray you can enjoy the best Star Wars has to offer by giving the real Star Wars Universe a look"

I'm kinda wishing I hadn't deleted the comment now, because I want to tell this guy how much of an a****** he is for saying "let's shake on you being a lesser SW fan than me!" WHO F*CKING ENDS A LONG-A** ARGUMENT BY INSULTING SOMEONE AND THEN CALLING FOR A TRUCE?!

I would certainly say he was complicit in it. He could have spoken up and done something to stop it. He did nothing. But he didn't flip the switch, or give the order to. In that sense, he's rather a lot like most people: passive, has his own will but lacks a backbone, goes along with things "for now".

Vader was once a shadow, a name in the ether, a phantom menace, and then became:
Anakin in a fossilised state.
Rebelliousness fenced in.
Mind, body, soul enclosed. 
Return/purge needed.
End/or?




Yes. That's not really the depiction in Episode I at all.

However, oddly, it is the mindset of the Jedi Council -- well, Yoda, at least.

TPM (and the PT) is sort of all about...

When wisdom looks like foolishness, and foolishness looks like wisdom.

Or to put it another way:

Your focus determines your reality.

That's because he, far from being a "bad tactician" (as the EUwwww would have you believe), was shrewd enough never to underestimate the Rebels, in addition to not putting too much stock in technology. Tarkin thought there was no way a puny X-Wing could destroy the Death Star; he refused to evacuate. He died. Vader figured an X-Wing could very much destroy the Death Star; he left to destroy them instead. He lived. 'Nuff said. 

Bashers sometimes do seem not to have seen either the movies they trash (the prequels), nor the movies they claim to revere (the OT). Like "Entertainment Weakly," assessing ROTS back in their 2005 year-end issue. In addition to a tasteless cartoon of Lucas holding a lightsaber with a limp blade in front of his pants, its blurb claimed that Anakin turned into Vader "because some dude made him paranoid and he fell into lava." Eh? When did that happen? Or the team of non-white "critics" that a newspaper basically assigned to find/invent racist stereotypes in AOTC; one of them claimed that Boba Fett called Jango "Baba," which is an ethnic nickname of some sort. Say wha-? Boba called Jango nothing but "Dad." (They also bitched about the planet Kamino, since the name is, phonetically, the same as the Spanish word for road: camino. That happens to be true, but I fail to see how it's indicative of racism. But then these were the geniuses who claimed that the Clone Army was racist against Mexicans, although Jango, aka the origin of the clones, was played Tem Morrison, who is Maori.) And then there's the instance I have cited roughly 1,000 times already: Stephanie Zacharek "proving" how racist Jar Jar is by pulling "dreadlocks" straight out of her ass and placing them on Jar Jar's perfectly bald dome. 

maychild , for the record, Baba in Turk languages means something like Daddy. So is not ethnic, is just not English. These "anti-rasists" are pathetic to the bone. For example, EW and Variety the previous week declared in their Twitter accounts that Antonio Banderas is one of the two actors of color, nominated for Oscar. Yeah, sure. The "white" are strictly blond and with blue eyes', you know, there is no other option. Otherwise, we hate racism!!! Pathetic.
Back to the SW: Should I mention that Jar Jar is played by real actor of color? Or that SW had never problem with racial diversity? this is one of the most annoying arguments against PT in particular, where the Chief ( or sort of ) the Jedi Council, i.e. one of the most important figures in Coruscant is played by Samuel Jackson.

@subtext , I'm not familiar with these books but in the movie there is nothing that implies that Vader has something to do with the Alderaan blowing. In some of the EU books (I think The truce of Bakura) Leia said to Anakin Force ghost that he just stood there and did nothing against Alderaan destruction, i.e. Leia herself knows who gave the order. If Vader can be blamed of something is his indifference (having in mind that he actually despises the technlogical terror called Death Star) but not his "participation". These people don't bother even to watch the movie paying at least some attention, but in the same time they have the pretention to know what is good and what is bad for it.

Cryo
the dumba**e* at TV Tropes added more to DMOS on ROTS please read and critique

tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DethroningMoment/StarWars

I think Vader disliked the Death Star as a concept, but not so much the Empire. So he was willing to defend something he didn't fully believe in, in order to protect -- from his point of view -- a wider good. Kind of like the Jedi accepting the clones. Or the way Obi-Wan expressed great cynicism toward politicians in AOTC, even directly warning Anakin that Padme is a senator and not to be trusted. Anakin learned to be pragmatic under the Jedi. Like when he hid his marriage to Padme. If you include "Rogue One" as canon, Vader even expresses sarcasm toward the Death Star (or, at least, toward Krennic, its project manager): "Its power to create problems has certainly been confirmed." Vader didn't trust the ruthless ambitions of lesser men. He clearly takes delight in choking Krennic and Motti for their vain ambition. Vader sees the crushing of the Rebellion as a greater goal. He is protective toward the Death Star to that extent. He doesn't want the rebels to win. Jumping in his private craft to foil the rebel attack? All in a day's work for the sentinel/defender of the greater good. 

Thanks. It seemed like the obvious comparison to make. 



Although not from moral qualms, perhaps he was trying to have his cake and eat it. He disbelieved in the power of the Death Star to resolve all problems, but he was still prepared to defend it and see its utility. "Well, if it works." Yet by putting in a good word for the Force, he was also trying to place his faith in something greater, perhaps recognising that he's just a small cog in a much larger machine -- if only because his revulsion that he might have anything in common with these disgusting, self-serving bureaucrats impels him to reach beyond himself and lean into something greater. 

That said, after he kills Obi-Wan, who he earlier says to Tarkin has the Force with him, he might see himself as having scored a victory for the Dark Side, by wresting control and exerting his will over it. He just killed a paragon of the light (albeit because the paragon of the light let him). So maybe, when he then gloats to Tarkin, "This will be a day long remembered...", he now believes a little more firmly in the Death Star, now that the Force has seemingly authorised his point of view. 

See? Even in ANH, Vader is quite a complex character, once you really start examining the scenes and looking at his sayings and doings a little more closely. And that complexity increases with the weight of the prequels behind the original rebels-versus-empire narrative.



Nice catch! I suppose it is. 

The disgust towards the Death Star in Vader is originated by the simple fact that it gives power to simple bureaucrats (I.e. ordinary people with no special powers) the opportunity to think that they are almighty. I think this is more than clear in the little conflict with general Motti in episode 4 (sorcerer ways vs. technological progress). It is a technological trick and so far not real power. Vader try to protect the battle station as it is Imperial creation as Cryo said but it doesn't mean he likes it. In ROTJ he clearly states that building it at time is important but he never express admiration to it, he is more concerned that the rebel are regrouping new fleet around Sullust and so on. It is a technological terror, a freak however is Emperor's favorite techno freak.