|
Post by Seeker of the Whills on Dec 14, 2021 19:35:06 GMT
A thread for analyzing individual scenes. Make whatever observations you have about scenes here.
I'm focusing on the first part of this video, the scene with Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan on the Jedi Temple balcony. While the council members seem stuck to their chairs in their chambers, these are two Jedi who move more freely throughout the galaxy on missions, like wandering samurai. Obi-Wan is more in line with the council on the issue of Anakin, though, and seems to be influenced by the teachings of Yoda, which sometimes conflict with those of his master Qui-Gon. Here, they exit the council chambers to get some fresh air on the balcony and bathe in the warmth of the setting sun. To me, this symbolizes the council being confined to their spire of the temple, while Obi-Wan and especially Qui-Gon see a larger view. Qui-Gon leads Obi-Wan out to the balcony and to the light of the sun. When there, he rests his hand on Obi-Wan's shoulder, imparting his wisdom. Later, Obi-Wan will see his point of view. Qui-Gon's point of view is the one outside the box, outside the council chambers and their code, and out in the fresh air and light of the sun. Obi-Wan says that Qui-Gon would be on the council if he followed the code, to which Qui-Gon replies "You still have much to learn, my young apprentice." To Qui-Gon, being on the council would not help accomplish what he "must do." In fact, it would probably hinder him and dampen his individual point of view. Gazing to the setting sun epitomizes Qui-Gon's individualistic attitude. Just as the sun is setting on the entirety of the Republic, it will soon set on him.
|
|
|
Post by Seeker of the Whills on Dec 15, 2021 18:42:46 GMT
Continuing with Jedi Temple scenes, which I find interesting for some reason, this one has an otherworldly quality about it. There is a serene luminescence to it. The view outside the window behind Yoda and Mace resembles the Death Star trench. The door seems much bigger this time, as if meeting the council is more daunting. The Jedi want Padmé to go into hiding as a refugee, so they're not above deception. Padmé is no stranger to disguises and deception, but as a very proactive person, she's not a fan of hiding. There is a theme of hiding and deception of identity going on in AotC. First Padmé with her decoy, then Zam the changeling who wears a veil, Jango with his dual role as the clones' father and the Separatist assassin, and of course Palpatine/Sidious. While Padmé is sent off world to hide in disguise, Palpatine hides in plain sight under the Jedi's nose. The Jedi's decision to send Padmé away ultimately allows Palpatine to create the army. And the army was a hidden deception, as well. So the Jedi are caught in this game of deceiving and being deceived, except they're ignorant to the fact that Palpatine is many steps ahead of them.
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Mar 16, 2022 12:07:27 GMT
I'd like to go through what I think of as the 'heart' of Episode I, the sequence from the Dinner Scene to Anakin's Midichlorian Count Scene. There's something about this boy...As the Sith Lords are devising their plan of moving towards our protagonists on Tatooine, and thus set in motion their long-awaited design for revenge, we're brought into the dining room of the Skywalkers, a flaxen-haired boy and his mother, and are treated with a rare domestic meal scene. And while our heroes find themselves in the middle of a world run by slavers, crime lords and Sith, who live to take, we begin to get more of a glimpse of this funny little boy's generosity and the hospitable nature of his mother as they warmly welcome the stranded travelers into their modest hovel, amidst the inhospitable sand storm raging outside. The Dinner Scene is a masterfully crafted scene of exposition, Lucas' quirky, streamlined dialogue, and a bigger look into Anakin's giving nature as the plot finds its way into his life and of which Anakin becomes the linchpin. For starters, I love how Jar Jar's socially awkward personality and attributes are used to great effect as a distraction which allows the conversation to shift from the topic of slavery to Podracing, and then again from Podracing to the topic of Jedis. We also get a view into Anakin's idealized perspective of the Jedi - his certainty that no one can kill a Jedi, and his own intrepid dreams and desires to be one himself. And this little moment is packed like dynamite. In it we're hit with his belief that Jedi cannot be killed, yet OT viewers will feel the undertones - knowing where this story is going to eventually go, somehow... Which is quickly juxtaposed with the declaration of his intentions to use his envisioned Jedi powers for good; to free his fellow slaves. Which is also then beautifully used to transition into the guests' reason for being there. And while Anakin breathes a ray of hope into the situation, here we understandably observe Shmi's hesitancy to allow Ani to race, countered by yet more of Ani's oozing compassion and eagerness to use what he has to help those in need, with his heart-melting line, "Mom, you say the biggest problem in this universe is nobody helps each other." Cut to great facial acting by Pernilla August. Shmi, who cares for her son's well-being but also recognizes his ability to help these desperate people, then resigns to fate and assures everyone that, "He can help you. He was meant to help you." cut to great facial acting by Liam Neeson. Hopping over the Qui-Gon/Watto bet scene, which includes more great Watto animation, we come to Qui-Gon updating his valiant apprentice Obi-Wan on the developing situation and relaying to him that, "There's something about this boy..." And while he isn't quite sure what it might be, most viewers are, and it brings out the goosebumps. And while the quaint, melodic, yet stalwart music of Ani's Theme plays as we observe him joyfully working on his pod through the doorway to the back lot, Shmi and Qui-Gon begin what starts off as an ordinary, cordial conversation about her gifted young boy. But soon Shmi displays her selfless desire to see Anakin live a better life than that of a slave. Which eventually leads to the big, unexpected revelation flash of the movie. Hold on to your seats, Anakin "had no father." Cut to magnificent facial acting by Liam Neeson. "I carried him, I gave birth, I raised him. I can't explain what happened." This right here opened up Star Wars to a whole new level, while blowing our minds and creating an immense emotional impact as we begin to learn of Anakin's profound cosmic significance and deep connection to the Force, a revelation rivaling that of "I am your father." "Can you help him?" Beautifully followed by a blissful, calming, palette-cleansing scene of Ani hanging with his neighborhood friends while we process the shocking new discovery and it's rippling implications. Though sometimes derided, this scene is delightfully woven together with Jar Jar's whimsical antics, some familiarizing banter between 3P0 and R2 and Ani being a typical kid. Culminating in the triumphant "It's working! It's working!" as we get to witness another of the fruits of Anakin's 'wizard' mechanical skills, while the orchestration swells and Qui-Gon watches in amazement at not only the young phenom but in the mysterious ways the Force works. He gives a sigh of relief but also in immense faith in this remarkable, kind-hearted boy he's somehow met. There's something very powerful and magical about this sequence of scenes. You can feel the whole saga aligning and flowing through it. Delightfully mysterious, emotionally gripping, hope inspiring, yet also filled with suspense as to how things will unfold in Ani's adult life, yet it's so stirring and captivating you tend to mostly forget about all of that for the moment. Which is followed by an endearing moment of Ani again being an innocent, ambitious and precocious kid, aspiring to the adventure and excitement of someday seeing every star system. Another nice calm before the storm of yet another astonishing epiphany which lays out both the mystery surrounding Anakin's conception and his purpose and potential. Shmi knew Anakin had a special gift, but seeing even the Jedi astonished by it all is brilliantly executed, in a subtle, tacit exchange between Qui-Gon and Shmi, completely without words. Most filmmakers would've revealed this scene with a manic adult Anakin shouting to his fallen Jedi brothers with explosions going off, "My Midichlorian count is higher than any Jedi in history! Mwahahahaha!" But Lucas did it with a guy in a grey poncho looking over at a middle-aged mom in an adobe hut. To much more powerful effect. Cue the Greek chorus' subtle whisper "Kora Ratama", as Darth Maul's probe droids move towards Mos Espa in the cold darkness of Tatooine dusk. What will happen next?
|
|
|
Post by Seeker of the Whills on Apr 21, 2022 17:47:50 GMT
The club scene poses multiple interesting considerations. The Jedi, who are meant to abstain from any attachments and possessions, are led into a den of pleasures. Anakin has trouble with women, both with the nightmares about his mother and his growing attraction to Padmé. So it is fitting that the villain of the beginning of the film, who leads them to the club, is a beautiful and elusive, veiled woman with shape shifting abilities. Zam Wesell could be thought of as the anti-Padmé. Both use disguises to full advantage, and Obi-Wan tells Anakin to be cautious of both. Obi-Wan says of Padmé that "She is a politician and they're not to be trusted", and when Anakin reveals that Zam is a woman and a changeling, he says "In that case be extra careful." Perhaps the sexual repression of the Jedi is showing here. The Jedi enter the club, and Anakin is being laid eyes on by multiple women, including a Twi'lek stroking her lekku. There are definitely sexual undertones in the scene. Anakin is able to restrain himself because he is transfixed by Padmé. Obi-Wan says "Go and find her" to Anakin. Anakin would probably rather look for his mother, which is forbidden, but he must do his Jedi duties. Finding and apprehending Zam could be the key to receiving Padmé's affections. Obi-Wan, on the other hand, indulges in another vice which is perhaps odd for a Jedi: Drinking. While Anakin searches the club for Zam, which mirrors his search for his mother and his pursuit of Padmé, both elusive relationships he has to women, Obi-Wan calmly stands at the bar desk, waiting for Zam to come to him.
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Apr 29, 2022 17:12:50 GMT
Couldn't help it, back for more. Now I'd like to explore the sequence form the Japor Snippet scene to Ani's Message to Padmé. I'm on my way to the Jedi Temple to start my training... I hope.The scene titled "The Queen's Worries" begins with Padme intently watching Governor Sio Bibble's message explaining Naboo's catastrophic situation as he pleads for her to contact him. Her people are in need. She is gravely concerned about them and dedicated to doing whatever it takes to ensure their safety. She believes she is watching the message in private but soon takes notice of Anakin's presence. Taking concern for his well-being is then the first thing she does, despite her own troubles. Upon stating that he's cold, Padmé kneels next to him in her bright orange robe, like a warm fire radiating comfort and compassion. She continues by wrapping an orange blanket around him as if bestowing some of her everlasting warmth and kindness onto him. Then what is the first thing Anakin does? He tries to console her. "You seem sad." He then gives her a sweet gift of a Japor Snippet he carved. The two of them have solidly bonded and she states that she will continue to care for him after they arrive on Coruscant despite how much things will change, to which he reciprocates. She then naturally intuits that he misses his mother after he falters for a moment. Padme fully understands how much Anakin loves his mother, even at that point. As we arrive on Coruscant we begin to dive back into the "adult" situations which have "become much more complicated", and as tensions are building, Lucas cleverly shifts the perspective back to Anakin's as a proxy for the young viewers. And yet amidst the dire urgency of the situation and all of the official formalities, we still get this heart-warming, spontaneous and touching smile from Padmé to Ani, which strikes like a bolt of electricity, a beacon of reassuring companionship and a soothing ray of hope in this bustling new metropolis world of steel grey. Padmé then takes it upon herself to continue caring for Ani, just as she'd promised, beckoning him to follow her as Qui-Gon attends to his matters. All topped off with Jar Jar's undeniably humorous "Piddy hot!" Now the scene with Palpatine advising Queen Amidala is very interesting in many ways. Visually, it begins with Panaka crossing the screen and leading us into Senator Palpatine's office mid-conversation as Palpatine himself eventually crosses Panaka's axis to the right side of the screen. And we now see Padmé's radiant orange change to grey. As Senator Palpatine paints a frank portrait of the bleak state of the Senate and Naboo's apparent hopeless predicament, he then proceeds to physically eclipse the Queen three times in this scene! Lucas dropped several subtle hints throughout the PT about Palpatine being sketchy, and this takes the cake- -taking into account the fact that later, Darth Maul eclipses Qui-Gon three times! In this scene you may notice that Ani and Jar Jar walk off screen right as Palpatine begins to suggest to Padmé that their only hope is to push for a new Chancellor, as if the innocnece of the age is now leaving, or beginning to. This one understated moment was actually the first real flip of the switch in Palpatine's end game, and we see metaphorically the effect on the tone of the Galaxy. Once Amidala helps maneuver Palpatine into power, innocence is lost. And as her protective-mother instinct was taken advantage of, the femininity takes a hit, too. It's also worth noting this was the first scene shot for Episode I. We then join Qui-Gon in his address to the Council, also mid-conversation, as he relates his profound findings while he and his Padawan Obi-Wan were on their fateful mission. He asserts that the Sith, the ancient adversary of the Jedi, have managed to return from obscurity and are after the Queen of Naboo. And as Qui-Gon matter-of-factly reports his finding of Anakin, we're dealt yet another stunning surprise that Ani may be associated with a Jedi prophecy about a Chosen One who will someday restore balance to the Force. There's a certain spine-tingling thrill in learning Anakin isn't just any ordinary person, he's some mysterious starchild with profound, and captivating, potential - which expands Anakin's character, the Force and Star Wars to bold new dimensions. Qui-Gon, the left-brain representative to the Council's somewhat sleepy/inert right-brain, insists the Will of the Force led him to discovering Anakin. And though agnostic towards the boy's role, and leery of the unorthodox request, the Council agrees to Qui-Gon's request that he be tested - while John Williams' brilliant music has us rooting for Ani. Finishing off brilliantly with an exchange of glances between Mace and Yoda layered with levels of "Something fishy is goin' on..." Indeed something big is up. After receiving news that the Council will test him, Ani stops by the Queen's room to say his goodbyes to his newfound close friend Padmé. And though this could be the last time they ever see each other, dressed in her royal attire, she must maintain her Queen's façade, which weaves a heart-wrenching melancholy into the film. Especially after Anakin having just left his mother. And in contrast to the comforting smile she beamed on the landing platform. As our two young heroes find themselves in their day of reckoning and step forward to face the music, how will the powers that be respond to their situations while in their moment of truth? These two new companions have developed a mutually caring bond through their sorrows and hopes, and now must go they're separate ways into a world of rules and gatekeeping which create obstacles in accomplishing the things they care about.
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on May 20, 2022 14:44:02 GMT
We all know of Sith-eyes Anakin looking into the camera in RotS, and I've seen people mention Jar Jar possibly looking into the camera in the apartment scene from AotC, but if we really wanna talk breaking the fourth wall I say look to Anakin's first line in the saga. "Are you an angel?" I've come to see this as an ingenious and subtle way of showing just how powerful this character is and how powerfully he can reach us. As irl audience members, this strikes us a certain way and breaks down the barrier between our world and the characters', but then we're quickly pulled back into the in-universe reality by realizing that what he coincidentally meant were the beautiful inhabitants of the moons of Iego, not heavenly beings we know them as. Boom! Right as he first enters the film and sits down we see that's he's sweet and innocent, and also quite the precocious phenom, who can stand up for himself and speaks out his passions freely, and most of all, transcends the dimensions separating us and them, in an interesting, and adorable, little wobble. Then, once our heroes reach Coruscant, Padmé also breaks the fourth wall by looking directly at Anakin, or us, with her dynamite smile - like a jolt to the heart. Really hitting home how warm and friendly her character is and how powerful and genuine their connection is. That amidst all the formal political jargon and amongst the bustling metropolis, her living, spontaneous warmth is always there for Anakin, like a bold orange flame - and she's happy to be there for him. I think we the audience members walk away from the film subconsciously stricken by the immensity of the raw potential within this boy, and by the endless compassion and humanity within Padmé. And that's on top of the conscious realizations we already glean from the film.
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on May 30, 2022 17:00:40 GMT
Yes Seeker, this is one of the more subtly fascinating scenes in Episode II, and I'd like to add to some of your observations. The club scene poses multiple interesting considerations. The Jedi, who are meant to abstain from any attachments and possessions, are led into a den of pleasures. Yes, a clever choice on many fronts. This more adult-themed locale also helps acclimate us to the fact that Anakin is no kid anymore, and subconsciously prepares us for the romantic love story ahead. Not to mention Anakin earlier thrusting his saber into Zam's cockpit. Plus, as far as symbolism, this club is almost like walking into Anakin's (19 year-old) mind; full of distractions and alluring pleasures, and maybe some dark temptations. It's also interesting that the Twi'lek is GL's daughter Katie. Also, Ahmed Best, Jar Jar, is there as she gives Anakin the eye - we're not in Kansas (TPM) anymore, the innocence is beginning to wane from the Galaxy and the story. And on this note, what's also very important here is the difference in demeanor between Anakin and Obi-Wan. Even from the beginning of the chase to the doorway of the club, Anakin is reckless, headstrong, desperate, full of consternation always in kinetic motion through the tumult. While Obi-Wan remains in a zen-like state, patient, calm, allowing the outside world to wash over him. Right. I think the feminine characters in the SW saga symbolize the Galaxy, or the state of it therein, and Zam is a brilliant part of this tapestry. In the case of Zam though, we have a representation of the dark side at work. Specifically, the separatist crisis, while underneath is Palpatine's hideous plan. The anti-Padmé is a good way to put it. I see the deaths of Cordé and of Shmi as the harbingers of the death of the feminine in the galaxy/story. And the hit out on Padmé is the coup de grace. In fact, it's the whole reason Anakin and Obi-Wan are on their respective missions, which lead to the fall of the Republic and of Anakin. It's amazing how central Padmé is to everything that happens. Not to mention Padmé "dying a little bit each day" since Anakin came back into her life, which was the day Zam died. Yep, I love the insights we get in the beginning of this scene regarding the dynamic of the mentor/pupil relationship, as we get to see them out on a mission together. I also love to see Obi-Wan's genius plan in action here. He had he and Anakin split up so as to embolden Zam into coming out of hiding to try and kill him, and then he went up to the bar feigning preoccupation with the drink to draw her out. As he says in RotS, he's springing the trap; he's using himself as bait. ( tonyg helped me see the wider scope of this plan). And again, I like the exposition we get in Anakin's active, seeking, do-do-do approach, he must find the solution. While Obi-Wan is much more Wu Wei, letting the solution come to him. And exactly, I love how he drinks on the job, but is basically inoculated against any of the the temptations and vices of the environment. Even (humorously) using mind tricks to set a young man straight. And yes, it's important to realize how anxious Anakin is to resolve this case because it involves Padmé. Not only is he hellbent on keeping her safe, but he's also hoping to impress her. I think the way he loses his patience and temper when asking Zam who hired her is evidence of this. And this all serves as great foreshadowing of Anakin's motivations and obsessions which lead to his fall to the dark side. As for now, who was that mysterious rocket man? And could this toxic dart lead our heroes to any answers surrounding the mystery of the assassination attempt on Senator Amidala?
|
|
|
Post by Seeker of the Whills on May 30, 2022 17:43:48 GMT
Very good observations once again, Subtext Mining . You've been keeping this thread alive and it hasn't gone unnoticed. I see the club scene, while it is an echo of the cantina scene, as a mirror to Luke's experience in the Wampa cave in TESB. There's something transformative in both cases. I have been watching more Lucas Star Wars now after visiting the Disney side of things, and it truly is unique how layered the films are. I'll probably add something later about this fascinating scene or another.
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Jun 2, 2022 17:55:00 GMT
Some details of the bar scene that many people don't notice. First, when Anakin is searching for Zam. It can be seen that he feels kind of uncomfortable there. The bar is a place too far away from him in general, paradoxically, because he is the rebellious type. But being rebellious doesn't mean that he tend to hang out in such hedonistic places. On the other side, Obi Wan, the well educated composed Jedi from the higher society of the capital blend in so well in such dirty, shadowy places. He even has the habit to enter in a fight in the bars. I like these controversies that AOTC is filled in. During Anakin's observation, we see for a brief moment that the girls like him. They look at him with great interest, even he should calm them down with this Jedi movement of the hand. This is another detail that I like: here is emphasized that Anakin is handsome and even some random people notice it. It is something that is not discussed a lot about him, bit this not a superfluous attribute. Anakin should be handsome because it is another thing he looses when he becomes Vader. While he is the type who in a way doesn't pay attention to his looks he knows that is seen as handsome but actually doesn't care. In this aspect he is a real Jedi.
|
|
|
Post by Samnz on Jun 4, 2022 10:31:44 GMT
I like scene analysis quite a bit and did my contribution years ago. In case anyone is interested and since I don't want to copy and paste all that stuff, I'll just link to my former blog. Sorry in case of any spelling and/ or grammar mistakes (there must be many!). It's been years.
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Jun 4, 2022 21:41:04 GMT
Recently I watched some reactions of YouTubers of the PT. Generally they like the movies which is great but I saw some things that most viewers somehow miss in pivotal scenes that were obvious for me even during the first watch. For example, the scene of Padme and Anakin in Mustafar. It is very rich on content and images so I'll emphasize here only in details that I think most people just don't notice and they are crucial. What I mean here is mostly the role of Padme, what Anakin does is more or less obvious. First is the landing, when Padme stays for a moment in the ship, thinking of what is waiting for her on Mustafar. Padme is worried but I think many people actually don't understand why or at least not completely. There is the "what if Obi Wan is right" thinking, of course. But mostly Padme is worried for Anakin. She said this immediately after this moment. And not only because of "what if". There is something very important about this scene: Padme didn't go to Mustafar to ask Anakin what is really going on. She could just wait for him in Coruscant as he insisted. To put it simply, she went there to help him, to save him if it is necessary and in what way is necessary (even from himself) . She failed for various reasons but it doesn't mean that she wasn't right to have hope for him. images.app.goo.gl/U99gPmC2gHsWXVQR9 In this scene exactly we can see the stark contrast between her and both men that would be involved in this scene, or should I say three, as is Anakin who appeared in the beginning and not Vader. She is unarmed, she is pregnant and she looks strikingly beautiful but fragile. Yet she dared to cross the galaxy armed only with love and worries. I hate when people say that Padme changed in ROTS, becoming weak. It is the world around her that changed, but she refused to adapt to the dark time, if she changed in something is that she became even softer in those incredibly hard times. But not less valiant or selfless that she was before. When I say unarmed, it is not only literally. Padme wears a costume that "exposes" her completely: a difference from her Senator's attire that hides and protects her like armor. The viewers can see without effort that she is pregnant (obviously in the 9th month), she is dressed in soft, almost invisible colors, the costume is practical and comfortable but peaceful: it is not something that anyone could wear in hostile environment. And the environment is more than hostile. Yet in the first moment Padme succeed to call Anakin back to her: he put his hood down, i.e. he is Anakin again and he really goes to meet her with real worry. After these first moments of their meeting, Vader takes the floor if I can say so, but merely her presence call back Anakin to life much like her absence made him cease to breathe (not only metaphorically). I'll continue this later, because there is a lot t discuss here.
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Jun 5, 2022 9:03:23 GMT
I meant that in the interest of protecting her, Master... of course. I think there's something interesting to be said about how the first time we ever see Anakin use a lightsaber, he uses it on Padmé. It's in order to protect her, mind you, of course, which is all valiant and innocent enough. And he does a deftly impressive job of eliminating the threats without hurting Padmé. But as we'll begin to gradually see, this drive of his to always keep Padmé safe can tend to become a bit of a double edged sword. After the trauma of his mother's death, a switch is flipped in Anakin's mind and overcoming his fears of losing his loved ones becomes a bigger ongoing challenge. So much so, that his desire to protect Padmé and the lengths he will go to to do so, becomes a weapon of sorts in itself. Which does end up basically killing her. I feel this could also be tied up in the act of him jumping into her bed with his sword a-blazing, linking them romantically in the depths our minds, and connecting it all with Padmé's pregnancy with Luke & Leia - which triggers Anakin's dream, etc. We also have the erotic motifs of the Outlander Club, into which Anakin is led by a woman, in order to protect Padmé. Inside, Zam loses an arm. Later, when Anakin is forced to refrain from protecting Padmé he rushes Dooku in frustration and also loses an arm. Which begins his progression to being more machine than man - all in pursuit of keeping Padmé safe. Anyways, seeing the assassin's droid, Obi-Wan reflexively jumps through the window in hopes of further investigating who is behind the hit. Who are these bounty hunters and why are they after Senator Amidala? And how much farther will Anakin pursue his feelings toward her?
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Jun 5, 2022 10:27:20 GMT
Part 2: Padme on Mustafar. I said many times that even I first watched ROTS I was shocked by what Obi Wan did in Mustafar or more precisely said how he showed up on the ship's ramp in the most inappropriate moment. Don't get me wrong, his act doesn't make Anakin less guilty or something like that but it shows the contrast between Padme and the other participants in the scene. Padme went there to fix the things and to save Anakin at all costs, when Obi Wan went there to stop him, if it necessary to all costs, unfortunately much like Anakin decided to keep Padme alive at all costs even if he sold his soul to the devil. When I saw Obi Wan sneaking in her ship even during my first view I didn't like this. But when Anakin said "because of Obi Wan?!", I was like "Oh, no, Obi Wan what are doing" even before I saw him showing on the ramp. I have always thought that Anakin (or Vader in this moment) sensed Obi Wan presence just before his master showed up and that's why he asked Padme: because of Obi Wan, "giving" her the chance to say that she was made by Obi Wan to do it or something like that. Vader doesn't believe in love. The Sith indeed deal in absolute: there is loyalty (while twisted in many ways) or should I say obedience?! and they consider such persons as something similar to friends (I say similar, because the friendship requires altriusm and compassion and they are alien to that) and there are those who are not loyal, i.e. they are the enemy. There is nothing in-between. If we speculate what would Vader do if Padme agreed to stay with him (I know it is impossible but for the record) she would be trophy in his empire's crown, they wouldn't rule together anything, because the Sith cannot act in team, even the Master-apprentice relationship is a rivarly. This would never been the creed of Anakin (all the opposite, but here the one we see is Vader. Indeed because of that I'm still mad to Obi Wan because a difference from Padme he could guess what a Sith could do with those who apparently betray him. But the sad truth is that Obi Wan didn't think for this risk at all because, as I said he was too centered in his mission to stop Anakin at all costs that he never thought about such "colateral" risks, that he maybe is throwing Padme to her doom, using her as path to Vader. Which is ironic, as Obi Wan was the one that almost had given up on Anakin (he still tried to persuade him but was ready to give up) so he accepted that Yoda maybe is right, maybe Anakin is consumed by Vader. Padme on the other side is convinced till her last breath that Anakin is still what he really was in his heart and there is hope. She proposed to run away with him not because she is weak or afraid but because she wanted to free Anakin from all the things that chained him: presumed obligation to the Republic/Empire, his fears for her, the Order dissolution and so on. The love is the only way and if the world where they live denies it they should just leave this world and go away. Only if... There it comes the lowest moment of their encounter (looks between 2:40 and 2:42) when Obi Wan showed up. Padme is terrified. Many people just doesn't notice how terrified she is because even in this moment, even when Vader showed her face to her she felt for Anakin, she breath for him and through him and she was capable to see how it looked in his eyes. That's why is this terrified "no" at 2:42 of the clip. You can see how betrayed and lost Padme feels between Anakin and Obi Wan, how she suddenly realized what is about to happen, how she is terrified that she unconsciously brought the danger to Anakin. It is a very small yet powerful moment and I think for the intensity of the whole scene is often ignored. I have always wonder what would happen if Obi Wan showed up 5 minutes later or something like that. But as I said, the whole scene is full of these "what if" moments that make it supersad but powerful. There is more and I'll write later. youtu.be/tfX01lURXFk
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Jun 5, 2022 20:00:46 GMT
Padme on Mustafar, part 3. The moment of the choke is scary to watch and is is tragic in the same time. It is Vader that does it: Anakin extended his mechanical hand, after all. It is important to notice that the fist time he shows some aggression in Padme's presense is in her apartment in ROTS when he said: don't make me do that. And again he does it with the mechanical hand. As if Anakin himself is just incapable to hurt Padme and this is, I think, an indirect connection to the scene that Subtext analyzed above: in AOTC Anakin does something dangerous yet totally safe for Padme but here Vader is capable to hurt her.
Hurt her but not kill her as Obi Wan checked her and she obviously while unconscious, safe and whole. (I think one of the reasons that he is shocked on Polis Massa asking "She is dying?!" is this). Anakin or more precisely said, Vader didn't bother to check her not because he doesn't care but because he felt it: she was alive. This is one of the saddest moments in this scene, as it can be linked to the end of AOTC when during their wedding Padme deliberately took Anakin mechanical hand after she touched his human one. It actually answer the question is Padme capable to forgive Anakin and drive him away from this madness. She already did that.
It is painful to watch this moment, of course. Padme struggling to call her Anakin who is lost in the psychotic fury of the Dark Side, he turned against her which made all the blood sacrifices he made absolutely pointless and Obi Wan who is trying (is too late for that) to evoke his authority as the master (his position of "scolding" still in the ramp implies that).
When Padme collapses on the floor I think it became even more tragic. Most people watching this were excited because of the duel that is obviously about to come, but what I saw is two Alfa males, circulating around the person that they sacrificied to a different extent of course, but still both of them did it and are in a way free to go against each other because it was only Padme who stopped them. This is the moment when the time of the diplomacy perished for good or at least till the end of Empire as its last defender lies on the floor and what' s left are followers of the agressive negotiations or even war.
While this is the end of the scene I would add to it the moment when Padme lies in her ship and comes to her senses for a moment, asking only one thing: Is Anakin alright. After all what happened the only thoughts of Padme are not for herself but for Anakin. It is heartbreaking, especially when we remember that almost the same happened when Anakin first spoke in the suit (because obviously that was still Anakin). I like the gentle touch of Obi Wan in the end of the scene. Is like a big brother to a little sister that is in trouble. It is I think, the first moment when Obi Wan begins to realize that he sacrificied her to find and stop Anakin. I like also that he chooses to stay silent and to ignore the question. He could lie her, of course but I think it would be useless. He could tell her the truth but that would killed her so he just stayed silent. Ironically Padme did the same when he asked her: Anakin is the father, isn't he.
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Jun 7, 2022 9:54:46 GMT
Now I'd like to jump to the Lake Country scene. Not like here...Juxtaposed with the other mysterious and nefarious goings-on in the galaxy, here we're treated with a beautiful, idyllic sanctuary, a safe and serene Axis Mundi, the safest little bubble of lightness and tranquility in the entire saga. As Padmé and Anakin stride across this tree in the foreground it's as if they're entering into a larger world; or passing through an archway into the next phase of their, and the galaxy's, story. Now they will kiss and become intimately linked. Now the seeds are being sown. Now, unbeknownst to them, they are setting up Anakin's fall, but at the same time, also his redeeming salvation and that of the Galaxy; Luke & Leia. As Padmé's piccolo accompaniment makes it's return, painting the feeling of magic and life in the air, lush, vibrant colors exude from the screen inviting us in and reminding us of perfect summer days from our youth, in contrast with Kamino's sterility. And in contrast with the genteel political environments, the dialogue becomes much more casual and warm. Anakin is obviously overcome with butterflies in this all-to-welcome situation he finds himself in, but still wastes no time in shooting his shot. Mouth dry with nervousness, he uses Padmé's story of her youth as a clever segue to convey his attraction to her - by bringing up elements of his youth which contrast hers. Padmé and Anakin's lives and home planets form a yin/yang in a lot of ways. Harsh & sandy vs. watery and pastoral, for example, (lo, even their wardrobes illustrate their differences). This also evokes memories of their time together on Tatooine when they first met (and of TPM in the viewers). I don't think the point has anything to do with whether or not Anakin actually dislikes sand, it was just a pivot, a metaphor with which to create an opportunity to introduce affectionate touch into their dynamic. Yes, of course the line a little silly and delivered a bit like a dad joke, but not cringey. And it's only fitting that the central planet of the saga was used to evoke and open this door into their connection - both, actually. Tatooine and Naboo; the male and female. With the common ground being sand; Naboo's being pleasant, Tatooine's being course and rough. And the point is, it works. Padmé understands how unsophisticated the line is, but she also sees how genuine Anakin's heart is. After probably being fed pick-up lines by older guys for years, she appreciates Ani's willingness to be vulnerable and playful. Then while pushing through his fears and awkwardness, and gulping between the words "soft" and "smooth", he finally breaks the touch barrier, which brings out a spontaneous smile of joy which shimmers like the sun on the surface of the wavelets of the lake. A smile which seems to be inspired by Sebastian Shaw's smile to Luke. No longer able to ignore her growing attraction, Padmé allows her walls to dissolve, and proceeding on instinct, she lets Anakin's lean-in kiss happen. Much like Obi-Wan instinctively jumping after the assassin droid after insisting they stick to their mandate. At least momentarily. Just as the romantic melody makes it's first real flourish, we then have a rather unique SW moment as the musical score is interrupted, cut off, as Padmé snaps back to the world of propriety and expectations. I have said it many times, Anakin actually has pretty good game. Well... for a Jedi, I mean. The unfolding romance story here is also in stark contrast to Han & Leia's in the OT. Then finally, as we transition to the other big "wow!" moment of the second act, the sight of the battalions of Clone soldiers, which sets up the war and the fall of the Jedi, I can't help but notice some potential symbolism in the wipe up to the crèche of baby Clones; the artificially grown babies, bred for war in a sterile, clinical environment, by the order of an evil man bent on tearing the Galaxy in two. Verses the soon-to-be twin babies Luke & Leia, conceived the old-fashioned way, in authentic love and warmth, to one day reunite the Galaxy and restore peace and freedom with Anakin. What kinds of thoughts are going through our two young heroes' heads right now? Will they decide to maintain a professional relationship?
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Jun 7, 2022 22:00:26 GMT
I would only add that I consider the line "I don't like sand" as perfect for the moment. It is interesting how Anakin, opposing to Padme, actually agree with her that this place is pure magic. While the sand symbolizes everything he wants to forget: the coarse rough planet where he was a slave, in Naboo even the sand is tamed as it is the path to the water. In Tattoine the sand could kill you during the sand storm, in Naboo the sand is just the place when people relax after a swimming. So his lines, while a little rough are actually true and honest. Yes, I agree that Anakin's way to win Padme's heart was spot on. After all he just had to be himself: open, vulnerable, emotional, who goes straight to the point, someone who doesn't afraid to look silly just to make Padme smile as was in the meadow scene. Another detail in the sand scene is that Padme and Anakin actually listen to each other. It can be seen in their non-verbal communication: Padme actually shifted her attention from the memory that she was in while she was watching the lake to Anakin, who is also sharing something from his childhood. I also like that Anakin looked at Padme in the eyes before the kiss: he wanted to be sure what was she feeling in that moment.
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Jun 10, 2022 20:43:09 GMT
First is the landing, when Padme stays for a moment in the ship, thinking of what is waiting for her on Mustafar. Padme is worried but I think many people actually don't understand why or at least not completely. With every shot of Padmé, the PT filming crews seemed to really outdo themselves, and they belong in cinematography museums. This one is very gripping in its tone and lighting. Portman's acting is great not only in this scene, but she runs such a wide range throughout RotS. But yeah, this shot speaks 10,000 words. For those who grew up with the OT, this is the shot where we see what it must've been like for Luke & Leia's mom to be married to Vader. What I love about the context is she is trying to put together in her head what to say and how to say it. It's like she needs just a little more time to gather herself and process what Obi-Wan told her in contrast to the Anakin she knows. But seconds after this she then sees Anakin running towards her and she's like, "Oh crap, here he comes. Here goes, whether I'm ready or not."
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Jun 10, 2022 21:13:55 GMT
First is the landing, when Padme stays for a moment in the ship, thinking of what is waiting for her on Mustafar. Padme is worried but I think many people actually don't understand why or at least not completely. With every shot of Padmé, the PT filming crews seemed to really outdo themselves, and they belong in cinematography museums. This one is very gripping in its tone and lighting. Portman's acting is great not only in this scene, but she runs such a wide range throughout RotS. But yeah, this shot speaks 10,000 words. For those who grew up with the OT, this is the shot where we see what it must've been like for Luke & Leia's mom to be married to Vader. What I love about the context is she is trying to put together in her head what to say and how to say it. It's like she needs just a little more time to gather herself and process what Obi-Wan told her in contrast to the Anakin she knows. But seconds after this she then sees Anakin running towards her and she's like, "Oh crap, here he comes. Here goes, whether I'm ready or not." Yes -- a wonderful moment. Really accentuated by a beautifully sad version of Across The Stars, too. John Williams and George Lucas are an unbeatable combination. I also really like the shot of Anakin seen running to the ship from the cockpit window. It actually features a ghostly reflection of Padme, watching her husband in his hellish existence:
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Jun 15, 2022 13:41:50 GMT
So, you might say...I find it interesting that in Episode II we have two instances which illustrate how Anakin has a way of stretching things in order to suit and justify his viewpoints. It's also interesting how the first time he does it, he's basically right. Anakin and Obi-Wan are assigned to protect Senator Amidala but not to start an investigation into the assassination attempts. Now, Anakin is the kind of person that always wants to go the extra mile and do a job thoroughly, and in this case he wants to go beyond the confines of their mandate and work to discover who the killers are especially because it's Padmé, and his top priority above all else is to keep her safe, (which I suspect is also why he gets a little agitated here). And even Padmé herself said she wants answers. She wants to get to the root of the problem. Thus, when Anakin takes it upon himself to promise Padmé that they will find out who is trying to kill her, he further explains his case by highlighting the obvious overkill in their presence and brings out the argument that an investigation is implied. So although he's implying an exceeding of their mandate, he tries to point out that it's necessary and logical. Obi-Wan, shown up in front of their clients and not one to go against the Council, is ruffled by this and quickly reprimands Anakin, making the situation even more awkward - to which Senator Amidala soothes the situation by commenting on how the mere presence of the Jedi may reveal the mysteries surrounding the threat. Then sure enough, not before long, they are mandated to investigate - just as Anakin had been intent on all along. The next time we see Anakin do this, it's on more on the level of his mindset and emotional life, and it treads into how Anakin tries to reconcile the ways of his Jedi life and it's necessary sacrifices with his "regular person" psyche. Here he is adapting and cleverly pretzel-twisting the Jedi ethos of compassion and the loopholes in the all-encompassing word 'love' to justify his pursuit of romantic love, as well as his continued attached connection with his mother - by essentially claiming that his idea of "loving" is encouraged, or you might say implied, in the Jedi way. Although his spiel here is human and relatable, and even a little endearing, on a practical level he's treading into a volatile concoction, as Jedi responsibilities require a clear mind, un-influenced by threats to any attachments. And here we see him beginning to confuse possessive love with compassionate love. How much farther will Anakin go in his tendency to mix the Jedi and regular persons worlds? Would he ever think to try to use his gifted connection with the Force to maintain the things he craves as a regular person?
|
|
|
Post by Alexrd on Jun 15, 2022 16:23:11 GMT
I think in that first scene, it's not about them wanting to tackle the core of the problem or not. It's that Anakin wants to show off to Padmé, to prove himself to her. That's why as soon as Padmé says that she wants to discover who's behind it, Anakin replies right away that they'll do it (for her).
Obi-Wan is more measured. He knows his place and admonishes Anakin for his insubordination when he starts to question his master in front of others (again, to show off). It's not that he doesn't want to discover who's behind everything, it's about imparting some discipline onto Anakin, who was acting emotionally and immaturely.
|
|