|
|
Post by Ingram on Nov 2, 2021 8:37:49 GMT
One silver lining of Covid is that it pushed the release of Dune—Part One back a year, whilst Team Villeneuve has been completing Part Two in the meantime. Hot on the topic, then, we've already got a trailer for the sequel, where even Sean Young from the '84 version has crossed over for a return!
Gotta say, I'm feeling good about this. It would seem the drab look is gone, at least.
|
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 2, 2021 8:38:39 GMT
 Hey, look! It's Dune's conceptually truthful title referent mimetically existing entirely within the diegetic boundaries of a single frame from Attack of the Clones! Wow! Padme's gonna be laying in the sand here in just a minute. Moaning. That means: sex. Dune, sand, Paul, Padme, Anakin, Arrakis, Chani, Force, Spice, sex, sand, feudalism, republic, sand, smooth, soft, Clones, Harkonnen, Solo, Idaho, Padme... sex. "My problem was, I was constantly bumping up against the technology of the time." |
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Nov 3, 2021 1:06:08 GMT
I don't know, like THX 1138, I'd say ANH and especially ESB in particular are leaning towards drab, at least as far as variety in the color pallette. In Empire you only get the occasional orange and a few muted colors in the wardrobes on Bespin. The thing is though, no, it doesn't feel drab. At least not like a Nolan movie. Some of it is definitely in the feel of the movie. But TESB really isn't that drab -- at least, not if you go by the 2004 DVD and 2011 Blu-ray versions. There's plenty of colour to be assayed, from the deep blues of Hoth, to Luke's orange flight jacket, to the mystical greens of Dagobah, the pinks and blues of the carbon freezing chamber on Bespin, and the weather patterns of Bespin itself. And the droids, as usual, inject a good deal of colour into the proceedings, both literally and figuratively. A Nolan movie is exceptionally dour and dowdy by comparison. Is the man colour blind? Oh, wait: He is. www.quora.com/Is-Christopher-Nolan-color-blindExplains a lot. Indeed. Lucas' films are symphonically drab. The drabness is never there simply to bring a pretentious "arthouse" feeling to anything. THX comes the closest to that, and it's still miles beyond a lot of the crap released today. I think people are embarrassed by colour and tend to shun it as "campy". The human optical system is also more sensitive to changes in brightness than subtleties of hue. Black and white photography remains popular. There are cultural trends driving it, but also this underlying physiological component. It did seem to start at the turn of the millennium: this aversion to "cheese" and "kiddy flick" aesthetics. "The Matrix" may well have kickstarted it. The good guys wear darker clothing than the bad guys. Ooh, hipster. Then again, The Matrix is a fine movie, and I remember semi-enjoying Bryan Singer's "X-Men" a couple of years later, which also put the characters in much darker slacks than their comic-book and animated TV series counterparts. And that movie predates "Batman Begins" by several years. There was definitely something trending then. The prequels are honestly some of the most colourful films of their age. The subtitle of Lucas Star Wars could almost be "A Color Odyssey". The only other thing with a similar goof factor to the prequels (or the lighter, more eccentric side of them) that was big at the time is probably Sam Raimi's trilogy of "Spider-Man" movies (and the last one, again, is somewhat drained of colour compared to the other two). Colour just seems to encode in big-budget, high-concept movies, at the moment, for "Don't take this thing too seriously." But people are always going to secretly lust for colour, as the popularity of Hubble Space Telescope images -- often highly processed to exaggerate underlying patterns expressed in colour gradients -- makes clear. I love me some black and white; but perhaps primarily as a retro-chic counterpoint against colour. Anyway, I've awkwardly conflated vivacity with colour and implied a drab movie is defined by its relative lack of colour. Of course, some colourful movies are an eyesore, and some dull-coloured movies are gorgeous. Depends on the filmmaker and the film-viewer, really. |
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 4, 2021 21:44:59 GMT
And as an aside, while speaking about casting, I think we were spoiled by having Francesca Annis as Lady Jessica. Anyone else seems to pale in comparison. Also, Dean Stockwell as Yueh. We were spoiled.  And one of my favorite character arcs in the story. |
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 4, 2021 22:08:12 GMT
One silver lining of Covid is that it pushed the release of Dune—Part One back a year, whilst Team Villeneuve has been completing Part Two in the meantime. Hot on the topic, then, we've already got a trailer for the sequel, where even Sean Young from the '84 version has crossed over for a return!
Gotta say, I'm feeling good about this. It would seem the drab look is gone, at least.
Is this like a Dune version of an Ewok Movie? I like it. Now this I would watch! |
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Nov 5, 2021 0:25:57 GMT
And as an aside, while speaking about casting, I think we were spoiled by having Francesca Annis as Lady Jessica. Anyone else seems to pale in comparison. Also, Dean Stockwell as Yueh. We were spoiled. And one of my favorite character arcs in the story. Yeah, he's great and his character arc is well-done. Honestly, just as you said, we were spoiled -- at least, in terms of the casting -- in the David Lynch movie. |
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 5, 2021 9:56:56 GMT
Ahh, it appears the Mentats in DV's film have something of a Naboo "Scar Of Rememberance" tattoo on their lip.  |
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Nov 6, 2021 15:47:36 GMT
I just appreciate how Dune (1984) exists in a nexus with Twin Peaks, Blade Runner and Star Trek: TNG.
|
|
|
|
Post by jppiper on Nov 8, 2021 5:27:25 GMT
I read on TV tropes that Dune fans hate Star Wars accusing Lucas of Plagiarism Lucas is a plagiarist, but he gets away with it because he plagiarises well. What he plagiarises, he throws in a blender, such that the concoction that emerges may have derivative ingredients, but is a wholly original infusion: genuine cinematic gold dust. Or Jawa Juice. I mean, isn't that what the Jawas are? Collectors of scrap. And a touch shady in their operations (by capturing droids, they are essentially slave-catchers). And then there's Anakin, who builds C-3PO (the "narrator" of the tale) and a podracer from spare parts. I once read and saved the following comment under an IMDb user review of "The Lord Of The Rings: The Two Towers": "Great artists take what they find grandly, like conquerors; minor ones take like petty thieves."You needn't have any doubt which I hold Lucas to be. The funny thing here is people can never decide what Star Wars is a pale imitation of. Is it "The Hidden Fortress"? "Dune"? "The Lord Of The Rings"? "Valerian"? I mean, listen: I understand why "Dune" fans would be pissed off. Frank Herbert's novel is widely considered in science-fiction circles to be a masterpiece of the genre -- or at least a heavyweight contender. Star Wars, especially if you're talking of just the first movie, can't really compare. Moreover, there is a case to be made that Lucas sailed pretty close to the wind as far as pilfering from Akira Kurosawa goes. Lucas was evidently worried at the time, since he considered buying the rights to "The Hidden Fortress" (as he first tried acquiring the rights to "Flash Gordon"). And Kurosawa had already sued Sergio Leone for ripping off "Yojimbo" with "A Fistful Of Dollars", which Lucas had to have been aware of. And then Lucas effectively did it again with TPM. This time, he went and ripped off James Gurney's "Dinotopia". Lucas clearly knew he'd done wrong and made the problem go away with money (he called Gurney up, but only after TPM came out, and made a deal). Did you think Lucas became a billionaire by always being a nice, straight-arrow sort of guy? I take you back to the IMDb user quote. Archival TFN news article about the "Dinotopia" thing here: www.theforce.net/episode1/story/dinotopia_creator_talks_about_star_wars_80085.aspArchival Google Groups discussion about the same topic here: groups.google.com/g/rec.arts.sf.starwars.misc/c/OJjDtWzt4SwOriginal article link here (doesn't work and isn't accessible on the Wayback Machine, either): emag.echostation.com/interview/gurney.htmP.S. I've read the article before and might even have a saved copy somewhere. I can assure you Gurney mentions a deal being worked out with Lucas, but that he can't talk about it. So, you could say, it's complicated. In fact, a lot stories are basically re-tellings of other stories. There's nothing unusual in that. But where Lucas went into more of a grey area is in copying specific design elements (i.e., not just leaving it at a few names or story beats). His artistic process around the "Dinotopia" thing is very shady. He obviously gave Gurney hush money. But that's what money allows you to do: you can basically pay off anyone and control things to your own advantage (not perfectly, but you can do it). That's capitalism. And Lucas is a very good capitalist who made his father proud: the middle class American drag-racing rebel who became a movie magnate and a merchandiser extraordinaire. But this is not really a bash. Star Wars is clearly bigger than any of its source material. It's a gesamtkunstwerk -- and those don't come around too often. Anyway, to keep things on-topic, here is a page analysing some of the main parallels between Star Wars and "Dune": www.moongadget.com/origins/dune.htmlour good friend ladyfromplanetx just put out a piece comparing the two Of Sandworms and Sarlaccs: 11 Similarities Between “Dune and “Star Wars” | the lady from planet x |
|
|
|
Post by Cryogenic on Nov 9, 2021 13:56:35 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by natalie on Dec 31, 2021 18:24:38 GMT
I liked Dune 2021 more than I'd expected but not enough to own it (I guess the jury is out until Part 2). The score wasn't good and I wanted to have more world building. There's more of a sense of a larger universe in any single Lucas's SW movies than in the adaptation of one of the most influential SF novels of all time. Now, it's probably not entirely DV's fault since SW deals with various locations while the book is primarily about Arrakis. However, there were quite a few moments of poor pacing that would've served better with some exposition on, say, mentats. The visuals were good but would've benefitted from more contrast between Arrakis and other locations at least. I suppose DV deserves credit for making it look different enough from Star Wars despite the inevitable comparisons. Off to re-reading the book now  Will watch Part 2 for sure. Anything is better than another superhero fast food offering for sure. |
|
|
|
Post by Subtext Mining on Jul 28, 2022 2:45:01 GMT
Well, I finally saw the new Dune, twice back-to-back, on a flight.
A movie centered on prophecies, visions, conundrums, treachery, words of wisdom, symbolic inter-cutting and inspiring the viewer to awaken the sleeper within themselves? Yeah, I liked it alright.
It is definitely intense and compelling, my kind of compelling - and more so in the second half. There were some inventive twists, and some elements were definitely more expansive than Lynch's. Yet there were some others that weren't. Some of the characters took awhile to grow on me, but I eventually liked all of them pretty much, once I got what they were going for (modern stuff). Kynes was the standout for me. Yueh certainly needed to be developed more considering his crucial role. Paul felt like a shoutout to Anakin (the acting). The dynamic between Paul and each of his parents seemed to be the impetus of the film, which gave it some much needed zing but felt cliché after awhile.
The story flowed pretty well, considering the dense source material, but maybe that's because I'm familiar with it. For newcomers it was likely too thin and rushed. I loved the bits with the mouse and the sand-walking. However much of the universe and the lore were not explored at all. They didn't even use the word Melange.
But I guess they were trying to stay away from being too nerdy, too surreal, too colorful. It's all very bleak and Nolan-y with some 2021 style humor sprinkled in the first half, but I guess that's how the next film got the green light. As a Dune fan I was hoping for a lot more, but as expected it was geared towards average viewers with contemporary tastes. But that's the era we live in now. Still I suppose it's still kind of interesting and hopefully gave the book some new readers.
It was the first time I'd seen a newer version of a movie that I've seen the older version of before, which felt very weird to me. Especially the scenes which were almost entirely verbatim-similar.
My question is did average movie goers get bored with this film or did they enjoy it? Seems like it did alright. Seemed to me to be pitched towards discontented teens and dads who like cool stuff, but not cynically. I mean, say what you will about Villeneuve, but I think he's one of the more integral big name filmmakers these days.
All in all I thought it was breath of fresh air amidst the stateless of our era, much like Arrival, but in need of a little more soul. Maybe part two will be his Batman Returns.
Speaking of that, whereas Dune 2021 feels like The Dark Knight, Lynch's feels like the '60s Batman. I just wonder if DV did that in response to Lynch's.
|
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Aug 17, 2022 9:05:10 GMT
I saw the movie too, from curiosity. A difference from many, I have the problem that I don't like the book. I dislike authors who don't understand women and the book has big problem with women. They are being of flesh only and they use it to achieve power. That's it. The social realization of women through flesh is utterly misogonistic and disgusting for me. It cannot be less primitive even in a book that openly stays against women. The genetic program of the Bene Gesserit is a pure example of this and the desire of Chani to have children with Paul is the same, although she is from "the primitive" culture, but it doesn't matter, she will have the status she wants to achieve through flesh. The pure intellectual that is Irulan on the other side is depicted as deprived, and she is deprived because is a woman that dared not to achieve power through this and her heirloom is her doom (she is married to Paul more like sacrifice but as she never had children with him she cannot achieve any significant social realization).
Anyway, this aspect of the book that I hate even more than the simple fact that it is full with unlikeable characters who only care for power and nothing more (pure Sith beings) is not part of this movie: yet. That is good. The bad thing about it are the visuals themselves.
Dune 2021 is dark: literally. There is no light and there is no warm in it. While in Blade Runner 2049 this worked perfectly (the visuals of the latter are fantastic) here it is disastrous.
Caladan doesn't look like a world that is hard for the Atriedes to leave. I have always imagined it as a colorful, full of water and life. The water is there, but there is no light, it looks gloomy and depressing.
And then it comes the Arrakis itself. I saw this on the trailer, but in the movie is even more, how to describe it...just bad. This is not desert. I cannot feel the heat, I cannot feel the light, I cannot feel the smell. Because the desert is bright and while there is no enough water for abundant life is beautiful. Arrakis should emanate such enchanted, raw beauty but I just cannot feel it. Even the sand looks gray and cool. Where is the unbearable heat? Why bother to put the special costumes if the viewer cannot feel the desert? Again, not enough light and not enough color.
I wonder if this comes from the fact that the director is Canadian: he grew up in the North and this is visible in all his movies: they are dark and the light is Northern, it looks like the weather is cold. Arrival I think, is the best example but the typical Villeneuve pallet fits in perfectly there. In Dune I'm not convinced that I'm in the desert at all.
Tattoine looks like desert planet, Geonosis also. Lucas succeeded to show the heat and the bright light but in Dune 2021 I just cannot understand the struggle for water, as for me it is non-existent.
That said, obviously I didn't like the movie. Only Duncan Idaho is depicted as in the book, I didn't like enough even Duke Leto and those are the only characters I like in the book.
|
|
|
|
Post by jppiper on Aug 28, 2022 20:16:53 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Sept 2, 2022 21:14:33 GMT
First, I like the moderate, I would say elegant style of exposition of this video. But I see something that bothers me a lot: the concept that is equal to elegant (this didn't come from the author of the video, but from Villeneuve). Ok,by a fashion designer this concept would be more than natural but from a cinematic point of view it bothers me a lot. The classic cinema before the colors was a play of light and shadows and the light is all, even now. I know that Villeneuve had in mind something different and not literal, but is even worse in this case. The elegance of PT is more than obvious. They can blame them whatever they want but it should be at least stick to the reality. Lack of elegance is something I hear for the first time and it amuses me and not in a good way. Ok, let's say that his concept of elegance is very different than mine, but I failed to see any elegance in his Dune. The lack of colors is one of the reasons for that. It shouldn't be too shiny, but colorless is the least elegant thing in a movie. |
|
|
|
Post by jppiper on Sept 2, 2022 22:04:31 GMT
First, I like the moderate, I would say elegant style of exposition of this video. But I see something that bothers me a lot: the concept that is equal to elegant (this didn't come from the author of the video, but from Villeneuve). Ok,by a fashion designer this concept would be more than natural but from a cinematic point of view it bothers me a lot. The classic cinema before the colors was a play of light and shadows and the light is all, even now. I know that Villeneuve had in mind something different and not literal, but is even worse in this case. The elegance of PT is more than obvious. They can blame them whatever they want but it should be at least stick to the reality. Lack of elegance is something I hear for the first time and it amuses me and not in a good way. Ok, let's say that his concept of elegance is very different than mine, but I failed to see any elegance in his Dune. The lack of colors is one of the reasons for that. It shouldn't be too shiny, but colorless is the least elegant thing in a movie. Star Wars lost it's elegance When Disney Bought It! |
|
|
|
Post by jppiper on Feb 24, 2024 4:56:17 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by eljedicolombiano on Feb 24, 2024 12:21:36 GMT
Jealousy can be a powerful ally
|
|
|
|
Post by tonyg on Feb 24, 2024 13:31:07 GMT
Lucas never hid the fact that he used some ideas from Dune, but you can see clearly that his Sand people have nothing to do with Dune's nor they play central role in the movie.Lucas also "borrowed" the idea of the city as a planet from Thrantor (or whatever the spelling is) from the Foundation of Asimov. But is normal for authors to borrow some ideas from others. The old authors borrowed some ideas from the folklore of the country but developed something of their own. That's the trick. SW has its own unique world so it works for me. By the way, Luke Skywalker has nothing to do with Paul Atriedes who becomes a sympathetic character in the end of his life (but not in the first books, at least not for me). So the problem of the potential rip-off disappears regarding to main character and plot. As I said, my big problem with Dune is that it is filled with rather unsympathetic characters (some of them purely evil, others just unpleasant) and the few sympathetic or die fast or have very restricted roles. The Lucas Saga is all the opposite. |
|
|
|
Post by jppiper on Mar 9, 2024 4:59:22 GMT
|
|
