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Post by mikeximus on Jul 22, 2021 16:26:49 GMT
As hard as I have been on Disney, LFL, and the Sequel Trilogy.. Sometimes we have to remember that this is what Star Wars was always about, the kids. Not middle aged men/women..
The video made me happy.
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Post by Cryogenic on Jul 22, 2021 17:27:58 GMT
Seen that before; and it is, indeed, very sweet.
This is what I try to tell people sometimes. Bashing represents a loss of innocence. There is good in these films if people choose to see it.
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Post by Samnz on Jul 23, 2021 5:26:44 GMT
Yeah, I also don't like people falling to the same lows prequel haters called home for so long. I recognize that it can be tempting to bash the Sequels at times, but my memory of them is already fading as much that I can't really say a lot about them. Especially TLJ and TROS, for which I had no real interest from the the get go.
Star Wars, for me, is the George Lucas hexalogy. I've never been into the comics or even TCW. TCW never managed to capture my interest. The ST is not in head canon, for me that's an alternate univsers in a way Lucas probably saw the old EU. It was nice to watch them once, but I don't feel any desire to repeat that experience because it doesn't add anything to 1-6. I'm happy for everyone who enjoy them, though. Somebody has to.
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Post by Ingram on Jul 30, 2021 20:32:47 GMT
Even sans the disposition of a 4-yearold fangirl, I too can take something positive away from the ST. The work of Auralnauts which, no joke, I sincerely revere as a genuine, spinoff expression of the ST at it's...finest?...for lack of a better word.
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Post by ArchdukeOfNaboo on Aug 4, 2021 23:23:19 GMT
I first learned of the word "sans" while studying French in school. Not until many years later did I discovered it was also being used in English. And I've been cringing at the sight of it ever since...
English is a pigeon language, when you get down to it  |
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Post by natalie on Aug 5, 2021 1:47:52 GMT
As hard as I have been on Disney, LFL, and the Sequel Trilogy.. Sometimes we have to remember that this is what Star Wars was always about, the kids. Not middle aged men/women.. The video made me happy. True enough from a certain point of view... however these kids have parents/guardians and the adults have to evaluate the messages the media for children contains (especially since I find the mainstream American culture of the past 20+ years rather toxic for the most part). In that regard, the sequels are empty compared to the original six. In fact, they may even be misleading. Case in point: is Rey a good role model for young girls - considering how easily she gets her powers vs Anakin and Luke going through training and failures. Nothing is handed to you for free in real life. |
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Post by mikeximus on Aug 5, 2021 6:22:53 GMT
As hard as I have been on Disney, LFL, and the Sequel Trilogy.. Sometimes we have to remember that this is what Star Wars was always about, the kids. Not middle aged men/women.. The video made me happy. True enough from a certain point of view... however these kids have parents/guardians and the adults have to evaluate the messages the media for children contains (especially since I find the mainstream American culture of the past 20+ years rather toxic for the most part). In that regard, the sequels are empty compared to the original six. In fact, they may even be misleading. Case in point: is Rey a good role model for young girls - considering how easily she gets her powers vs Anakin and Luke going through training and failures. Nothing is handed to you for free in real life. Well, my point in creating this little thread wasn’t for it to turn into another gauntlet for the sequels to run through. My point was that as always, there is a perspective that needs to always be kept in mind. I was (am still am) just as hard on the whole Mary Sue angle as the next person, however, disqualifying Rey as a role model for little girls because of how easily she got her powers is a stretch for even me. I’ve explained in another thread why I feel Rey is a bas role model for little girls, and that is the whole Reylo thing that is just really gross and sends the wrong message to those little girls on what they deserve from someone that loves them. It’s not mind rape, or torture, or assault , or genocidal tendencies. With that said, listen to the encouragement the parents are giving to the little Rey. When the bad guys walk by “get them pumpkin” “oh no they’re bad guys”, and when Kylo walks up, you can clearly hear the Dad yell “oh no it’s your enemy” and the mom exclaim “oh no” Good job Dad!! Little Rey stands defiant in her shooting stance even as Kylo walks up, onky breaking free of her steadfast guard when she sees Rey. The parents job is always to put perspective on these movies, even the OT and PT need a parents guidance to help explain things. |
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Post by Pyrogenic on Aug 5, 2021 20:25:39 GMT
"Case in point: is Rey a good role model for young girls - considering how easily she gets her powers vs Anakin and Luke going through training and failures. Nothing is handed to you for free in real life."
Cut to adult Rey freaked out by a vision of little Rey being restrained by a creep and screaming "No!" as her parents fly away, never to be seen again.
Cut to little Anakin almost being mowed down by a demon on a motorcycle after leaving his mom basically forever.
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Post by Ingram on Aug 7, 2021 9:33:59 GMT
I first learned of the word "sans" while studying French in school. Not until many years later did I discovered it was also being used in English. And I've been cringing at the sight of it ever since...
English is a pigeon language, when you get down to it That hurt. That hurt deep down that you'd mock me so. I approve.
fin
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Post by mikeximus on Aug 7, 2021 11:18:24 GMT
"Case in point: is Rey a good role model for young girls - considering how easily she gets her powers vs Anakin and Luke going through training and failures. Nothing is handed to you for free in real life." Cut to adult Rey freaked out by a vision of little Rey being restrained by a creep and screaming "No!" as her parents fly away, never to be seen again. Cut to little Anakin almost being mowed down by a demon on a motorcycle after leaving his mom basically forever. If you’re suggesting that Reys powers are justified because she shares a common trait with young Anakin of having some measure of suffering as a child, than I would suggest that’s a false conflation. Anakins crappy childhood circumstances, and even counting Luke with his Tusken encounter as he was an orphaned child on some backwater planet, does not mean they were ordained the powers they were given based on the commonality. They still had to learn, fail, lose limbs because of that failure, etc etc until they could get to the point where they were “powerful”. Suffering is not part of the journey to learn how to use the Force. It is a trait used so that the audience (children specifically as they always see themselves as not having power or being ordered around by adults) sees themselves in the hero as he/she makes their way through the hero’s journey. |
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Post by stampidhd280pro on Aug 7, 2021 11:51:17 GMT
The worst hardship Rey experienced was having to work that thankless 9-5 job. Sold into slavery. Uncanny piloting abilities. You can have and use The Force without training. Don't forget, it can also control your actions. "Oops."
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Post by Pyrogenic on Aug 7, 2021 13:20:49 GMT
"Case in point: is Rey a good role model for young girls - considering how easily she gets her powers vs Anakin and Luke going through training and failures. Nothing is handed to you for free in real life." Cut to adult Rey freaked out by a vision of little Rey being restrained by a creep and screaming "No!" as her parents fly away, never to be seen again. Cut to little Anakin almost being mowed down by a demon on a motorcycle after leaving his mom basically forever. If you’re suggesting that Reys powers are justified because she shares a common trait with young Anakin of having some measure of suffering as a child, than I would suggest that’s a false conflation. Anakins crappy childhood circumstances, and even counting Luke with his Tusken encounter as he was an orphaned child on some backwater planet, does not mean they were ordained the powers they were given based on the commonality. They still had to learn, fail, lose limbs because of that failure, etc etc until they could get to the point where they were “powerful”. Suffering is not part of the journey to learn how to use the Force. It is a trait used so that the audience (children specifically as they always see themselves as not having power or being ordered around by adults) sees themselves in the hero as he/she makes their way through the hero’s journey. Not intentional. |
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Post by mikeximus on Aug 7, 2021 13:48:48 GMT
The worst hardship Rey experienced was having to work that thankless 9-5 job. Well, it was a bit thankless. The thing about her situation in that "9-5 job" is that she could have left anytime. She choose to stay on Jakku as she was waiting for her "family". Who knew all she had to so was just steal another families name and poof.. no more family issues. Who Rey? Was she really sold into slavery? Or was it a bit more like indentured servitude? We know at the time of TFA she is no longer a "slave'. I think if she was, her "owner", Unkar, would have just simply taken BB-8 from her, rather than at first try to buy BB-8 from his own slave and later try to steal BB-8 from his own slave. I mean Watto forced Anakin to podrace, because Watto was his owner, because Anakin was actually a slave... I know pesky details... But alas, Slave or not, having a shitty childhood is not what gives you force powers. As a wise old spice smuggling, dead beat Dad, once said.. "That's not how the Force works" Ah Jokes.. Jokes everywhere.. Uncanny piloting abilities. Well, I think "uncanny" would qualify for understatement of the year in Rey's circumstances. I mean Anakin (the chosen one) couldn't even finish a stupid podrace until his very last one, failed every time it seems, of course with the exception of that last one. Than gets lucky by accidentally flying into a Droid Control Ship, and accidentally hitting the right button to shoot missiles etc etc. Alas.. He never podraced again because he had to go off to silly Force school for the next 10 years where he had to learn all that silly Force stuff just so he could get his ass kicked by a powerful Dark Side Warrior, that just, you know, nonchalantly cut off half his arm. Rey.. nope, full on combat, in a piece of garbage ship, expertly navigates the structure of an old imperial war machine without so much as a scratch on the ship (Eat that Lando!) she than rebuffs a powerful and trained Dark Warrior in a game of Vulcan Mind Meld, and then shits out a Jedi Mind Trick out of nowhere, than she lays the smack down on the powerful Dark Side Warrior (whom had years of training, but, we can't forget he had a boo boo) on her like very first day of "I feel the Force" without 10 years of that silly Force School. Rock on baby girl! Than about a week after that... after getting absolutely no training with grumpy Luke Skywalker, Rey than goes on to beat numerous, highly skilled warriors that were only tasked with guarding the Supreme Chancellor of the freakin universe. Even upstaging and saving that powerful Dark Warrior she already beat once, who had years of training... and to finish it off.. just ya know.. moved some rocks. That was a busy couple WEEKS for Rey. Poor Luke took years just to be able to pull a lightsaber out of the snow.. Rey? FIRST DAY BABY!  Who knew.. Maybe Anakin and Luke should have grown up on Jakku? You can have and use The Force without training. Don't forget, it can also control your actions. Have the Force? As with a side of potatoes? Or how about a nice Chianti and Fava Beans? Lucas's movies establish that Anakin isn't "using the Force". You kinda have to go to that pesky "Force School" thing i mentioned above or at least try really hard for the many years between movies before you can effectively "use the force". What is established in the OT and PT is that the people that are powerful with the force, yet untrained, have their already established abilities and reflexes involuntarily boosted. "control" suggests voluntary use... Anakin unwittingly can see things before they happen, thus why he appears to have quick reflexes. This is not a voluntary, controlled, use of the Force. Furthermore, Hows abouts thats pesky Empire Strikes Backs (allegedly).. After years of trying, and even a crash course with Master yoda we get: Luke: I can feel the FOrce. Obi Wan: But you cannot control it. Oh wait, than there is A New Hope: Ben Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him. Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions? Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands. Partially controls.. as with the case of Anakin and his appearance of super duper reflexes. Same with Luke and his piloting skills. While Luke wasn't crying out to a fellow rebel pilot to come save his ass because he couldn't get the more skilled and highly trained pilots of the Empire off his ass.. he had roughly a decade of targeting womp rates that just so happen to be the same size as a very specific exhaust port... oh and that same decade where he was racing down beggar's Canyon.. very similar to some battle "not moon" stations trench. So Luke, unbeknownst to him, was training for his moment in ANH most his life! Cause you know, training for a long time matters. Poor Luke.. If only he had been born when Disney owned Star Wars and a woman. He would have defeated the Empire in near on a month or two Oh oh.. did someone have an accident? That's ok, loss of bladder control happens to a lot of people..Just fooling..  |
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Post by Cryogenic on Aug 7, 2021 17:00:39 GMT
I thought you wanted a positive thread, mikeximus .  |
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Post by mikeximus on Aug 7, 2021 17:23:46 GMT
I thought you wanted a positive thread, mikeximus . Not sure how it's on me. I am just following the direction of the conversation. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Aug 7, 2021 18:57:04 GMT
I thought you wanted a positive thread, mikeximus . Not sure how it's on me. I am just following the direction of the conversation. You're actively contributing to the direction and tone of that conversation. You started this whole thread off by saying that Star Wars is about "the kids", "not middle aged men/women" -- implying that adults should sometimes put their misgivings and hostilities aside and try to recover, or remember, their lost innocence. But your last response was an 880-word diatribe against a slender reply that was all of 37 words. Now, true, when someone makes a bunch of concise assertions, there is often the need (or at least the temptation) to unpack them a little bit, necessitating a lengthier reply in turn. But still... If it's up to us, as adults, to sometimes put negativity aside and focus on the positives, you're setting a curious example in your own thread, that's all. |
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Post by smittysgelato on Aug 7, 2021 19:53:30 GMT
One thing is for sure. That little girl in that video gives no fucks that Rey is a Mary Sue. But even for us adults, there are still plenty of things to like about Rey despite her Mary Sueness.
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Post by Ingram on Aug 7, 2021 20:30:58 GMT
One thing is for sure. That little girl in that video gives no fucks that Rey is a Mary Sue. But even for us adults, there are still plenty of things to like about Rey despite her Mary Sueness. That's where I bow out, as I can't think of anything. Ridley in the role was certainly enthused yet Rey as a scripted/directed character doesn't offend me, she just bores me. She exists throughout the trilogy only as a pantomime of story drama, fluttering with smiles and big eyes or hand-wringing and tearing up in any given scene insofar as to justify that scene in a generic sense, to afford what is merely a theoretical motor function of dramatic heft—so continuously to the point where she becomes all but a non entity. She's angst over theme.
Ridley's physicality is a plus, I suppose; she exerts well and her limbs translate graphically amidst the action and choreography. And the streamlined, repetitive look of her hair and wardrobe makes an accessible avatar for any little girl who wants to play lightsabers with the boys. But as a character central to the storytelling? Total Monopoly money.
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Post by mikeximus on Aug 8, 2021 1:17:56 GMT
Not sure how it's on me. I am just following the direction of the conversation. You're actively contributing to the direction and tone of that conversation. You started this whole thread off by saying that Star Wars is about "the kids", "not middle aged men/women" -- implying that adults should sometimes put their misgivings and hostilities aside and try to recover, or remember, their lost innocence. But your last response was an 880-word diatribe against a slender reply that was all of 37 words. Now, true, when someone makes a bunch of concise assertions, there is often the need (or at least the temptation) to unpack them a little bit, necessitating a lengthier reply in turn. But still... If it's up to us, as adults, to sometimes put negativity aside and focus on the positives, you're setting a curious example in your own thread, that's all. Right, contributing, as others are. If because it's "my thread", that I have to somehow have the power to control others or at least steer them like children on what they post (as if freedom of speech isn't a thing), than I guess I can change it's tone at a moments notice too, so I am. Don't like what you see here?  One thing is for sure. That little girl in that video gives no fucks that Rey is a Mary Sue. But even for us adults, there are still plenty of things to like about Rey despite her Mary Sueness. That's where I bow out, as I can't think of anything. Ridley in the role was certainly enthused yet Rey as a scripted/directed character doesn't offend me, she just bores me. She exists throughout the trilogy only as a pantomime of story drama, fluttering with smiles and big eyes or hand-wringing and tearing up in any given scene insofar as to justify that scene in a generic sense, to afford what is merely a theoretical motor function of dramatic heft—so continuously to the point where she becomes all but a non entity. She's angst over theme.
Ridley's physicality is a plus, I suppose; she exerts well and her limbs translate graphically amidst the action and choreography. And the streamlined, repetitive look of her hair and wardrobe makes an accessible avatar for any little girl who wants to play lightsabers with the boys. But as a character central to the storytelling? Total Monopoly money.
I mostly agree with you. Although, for me, when TFA came out, I was at least willing to give the character some leeway because there were hints at her character being something more than than the avatar you described. Leave it to TLJ and TROS though to really squash the potential. TFA sets up the mystery of who is Rey, TLJ, wastes that opportunity, and ROTS is too little too late with it's Palpatine bloodline/last minute solution. Definitely a wasted opportunity for the character. THough, I have to agree with smittysgelato to a degree. The little girl in the video doesn't care about any of that. In her mind, she just sees a female character that she can look up too. I think that's tough to shit on in any regards. I mean, if you had a 4 year old daughter, and Rey was her favorite character, would you sit her down and explain to her all the things you said? Or would you try to encourage the positive things of the character, even though you yourself "bowed" out on the characters arc? Edit: and I ask that as a real question, because, as a father of 3 daughters, I have often realized that we don't always get to control who are kids look up too in media. So sometimes we have to roll with the punches. |
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Post by Cryogenic on Aug 8, 2021 2:22:47 GMT
You're actively contributing to the direction and tone of that conversation. You started this whole thread off by saying that Star Wars is about "the kids", "not middle aged men/women" -- implying that adults should sometimes put their misgivings and hostilities aside and try to recover, or remember, their lost innocence. But your last response was an 880-word diatribe against a slender reply that was all of 37 words. Now, true, when someone makes a bunch of concise assertions, there is often the need (or at least the temptation) to unpack them a little bit, necessitating a lengthier reply in turn. But still... If it's up to us, as adults, to sometimes put negativity aside and focus on the positives, you're setting a curious example in your own thread, that's all. Right, contributing, as others are. If because it's "my thread", that I have to somehow have the power to control others or at least steer them like children on what they post (as if freedom of speech isn't a thing), than I guess I can change it's tone at a moments notice too, so I am. Don't like what you see here? Thank you for permission to "move along", stormtrooper Mike. I guess I don't understand the purpose of this thread. "Sometimes we have to remember..." is its title, with a brief opening post that explains what you mean. You even clarified in Reply #6: Well, my point in creating this little thread wasn’t for it to turn into another gauntlet for the sequels to run through. Yet your extended diatribe against the Sequel Trilogy, and drawn-out complaining about the central character -- the same character you are indirectly airing some mild approval for in your opening post -- kinda kill that initial warm-hearted sentiment cold. So I can only conclude you actually wanted a bashing thread after you got your token celebration out of the way. Freedom of speech is a thing. So is the idea that threads are meant to have particular meanings/purposes/angles. You wanted a bashing thread in disguise. Fair enough. I'll let you and the other middle-aged malcontents rant away in peace. |
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